So I'm definitely a FF fan. I've been playing final fantasy games basically since I started gaming err, what is it now, ~22 years? While I'm not overtly gushy over these games, I have derived a lot of enjoyment from them over the years and their stylization and core dramatization.
Also, for those who haven't played these games and want to...mild spoilers abound, and not just about FFX. There you've been warned.
It took me a while to get there but I finally played FFX for the first time about a year ago, and I have to say that I was a bit torn with it. The story seemed interesting enough, the battle system was different, but very enjoyable, but I could never really get behind it the way I did with 6. Part of that I think is due to an over-romaticism of things past, but there was something else underlying the problem, the dramatization.
So let me be frank, Tidus as a character sucked. He was overly whiny, self absorbed, completely ignorant (and the bad kind), just wholly unlikable. I couldn't get behind his intrapersonal relationships, especially with Yuna, he also kind of suffered what I have sometimes jokingly referred to as the 'Squall Syndrome'.
Anyone who's played FF8 understands the sheer uncomfortable nature that was trying to portray Squall actually warming to Rinoa. Basically, Squall went from being somewhat disengaged about the whole thing to in love, with no developed middle ground. It's not really the fault of the game for not having the ability to portray the drama correctly, but the dialogue (which was supposed to be the main proponent of drama at this time) didn't help much in that regard.
Turn back to FFX again, and Tidus suffered the same problem although admittedly less so. It just seemed that he was friendly, but rarely flirtatious, and when he was doing so it wasn't exactly executed well, partly to do with technical shorcomings (oh god that laughing scene). For example in the Al Bhed's Home, when Tidus learns of the nature of the pilgrimage, that is supposedly the catalyst (at least partly) that changes things for him...but, how exactly did we get here exactly? The progression was more than a little uneven. Overall there were some really neat things as well amidst the rest, but it just seemed that there was something missing...
Fast Forward a year later.
I've had some time so I decided to go back through FFX to see if I couldn't change my opinions about the game just being OK, and not purportedly the best FF in the series (wait isn't that 2? ). The major difference was that I decided that I wanted to play with Japanese Audio this time around. Well I don't speak Japanese, so I had to see if there was an option to get English subtitles, and lo and behold! Having been a strong proponent of watching something in its original language, I probably get that from watching a lot of anime, I decided that this was the time to go back and look at it from a different perspective.
It initially took a while to get a sense of the characters but once I did, I found that not only were their actions, both physically and verbally more natural, but more believable. No longer was there Tidus the whining, snarky moron, but the Tidus that was young and naive, but earnest, thrown into a foreign land trying to make his way. I really cannot state how much different he is portrayed. Yes he still has the same core personality, but I found that I wasn't getting annoyed whenever he opened his mouth or did something.
The same could be said for the relationship between Tidus and Yuna, though it did still have some awkward moments in there still, I now actually believed that these two young people genuinely liked each other, and that there was at least some sort of development in Tidus' realization that he in fact had fallen in love with her.
So in ruminating on why I was reacting in this way, I was brought back to the two thoughts that I had made originally when I first played it;
First, the translation into English completely destroyed the inner core of the dramatization for the story, not just overall, but especially interpersonally (individual character development in the Japanese version had a strong core linear progression whereas the English version were disjunct slices of dialogue that had none of the former core element or development). Second, there were still technical limitations in the physical portrayal of the drama that hindered the connection to these individuals and their situation. This isn't so much a fault as it is a fact of the time. This was the first game in the series that was localized after all, so some technical problems would rightly emerge as their formal ideas and technical expertise with the system was still new.
This is a problem in games and in traversing the language and cultural barrier that I have been noticing in art and drama for a while now, in that when translated, the original intent of the work is muddied, and therefore the dramatic intent and emphasis is lessened to a degree. This is also the case in other areas, whereas operas translated in English, while more accessible, fail to convey the proper dramatism that was originally intended. This isn't to fault the English actors or casting director (thought Tidus' voice actor was awful), it's just that by not understanding (or perhaps not taking the time to understand) the cultural emphasis with regards to certain dramatic choices, these characters become even more like obtuse caricatures the more separated they become from the original kernel.
It has been quite timely that I decided to try to re-evaluate my position on this game to find that I thoroughly enjoyed it this time around, without the odd elements. Also funny enough, I waaaaayyy over-leveled in my first play through, so much so that I lopped off one of Sin's arms in 2 hits...oops! This time around I made a conscious effort not to do that in an effort to make the final progression both harder, and more meaningful in a dramatic way, and it paid off tremendously. Moral? Don't level in the omega ruins very much, that place will make you OP sooo fast, and ruins the emotional impact. Also part of the timeliness is due to the fact that I need to put down games for a while so that I can get back to real life, and this was a really good way to end it.. If you had a similar experience with FFX the way I first did, I would strongly suggest going back to the original Japanese, it has been a fabulous experience.
p.s. Uematsu is a BAD ASS...man I miss him in games.
I really enjoyed FF, but I played it years ago. But I was a mega fanboy back then, less so now. Tidus isn't the best, but I seriously disliked Vaan in XII.
I think I like it more because of the nostalgia, if I started it for the first time recently, would probably have similar feelings as you
I remember how annoying that water-sport game was. Seriously, Graav (opponent team captain, I think) always grabbed the ball and fked me over. I had haunting dreams of "Gravv gravved the ball" god dammit Graav.
I also think Yuna is a great character, liked her better in FFX than FFX-2.
I always play JRPGs with the original audio if possible.
For me FFX was like a long interactive movie, since you can finish the game without grinding at all (and I never played blitzball). FF6 is still the only one I've played more than once though.
I'll keep this in mind actually... you'd think that they would've had better work put into the English translations, but apparently not. I wonder if this is the same for the Tales Series.
I liked FFX. I'd played it with the english voices too. Yeah, the dialogue sucked at times, but I didn't really listen -- I read the German subtitles which seemed to be translated directly from the Japanese script, as they were different from the spoken dialogue quite often.
I liked it. I liked the concept, the spoilers, what's going on in the world. It's a good game.
I actually first experienced FFX back in my sophomore year (2002) when one of my roommates got it. I saw a good portion of the beginning, and even then I had a strong dislike of Tidus' as a character. And yes, Graav was a pain in the ass.
I read the German subtitles which seemed to be translated directly from the Japanese script, as they were different from the spoken dialogue quite often.
I think that's right, the english subtitles were different I think from the NA version's script. I also agree, I really like the story concept and the construction, It's just kinda sad that the execution was getting in the way all the time in the NA version.
For me FFX was like a long interactive movie, since you can finish the game without grinding at all (and I never played blitzball). FF6 is still the only one I've played more than once though.
Have you ever played Awful Fantasy?? That shit is hilarious
A lot of animes suffer from this too. Most of the time either the English actors have bad portrayal of the character, or their voice is just annoying. I'll always watch the English version though because I can't really pay attention to the action when I'm busy reading subtitles >_<.
I have to agree OP; Tidus definitely came off as incredibly whiny and annoying when I played through it... I don't think I can ever reverse that image of him though, just because it's so embedded in my memory. T_T; However, if I can play through on the Japanese version with English subs, I might playthrough again, it wasn't too long of a game(FF12 and FF14... holy shit those games were long. I gave up on FF12 after 50 hours because it was so damn boring and I hated the characters D: I think I beat FF14 in 60ish, but it was fun ^__^)
On August 20 2011 00:31 OpticalShot wrote: I remember how annoying that water-sport game was. Seriously, Graav (opponent team captain, I think) always grabbed the ball and fked me over. I had haunting dreams of "Gravv gravved the ball" god dammit Graav.
omfg I hated Blitzball. The controls for it were just plain bad, and sometimes it just felt like a game of luck. D:<
I never played a Final Fantasy game but I covered To Zanarkand from the Final Fantasy X soundtrack.
If I were to begin playing Final Fantasy, what would be a good first game/order of games? There's just so many parts, to a newcomer that seems incredibly hard to get into.
Tidus is annoying but I can understand him since he had always been living under the shadow of his father and one day just disappeared.
I remember because me and my fd could only ever finish the game within 2 weeks, we had to dash through a lot of the minor things.
My fd got a novel version of the game (it used to be a very popular thing to do for jrpgs) and I couldn't stop myself crying at the ending (yes, it was embarrassing). Then I had to watch the actual game ending when my fd is finishing it, cried even harder.
Honestly, that game is one of the most moving game for me. the opening lines : "this is my story" really engraved itself deep into my heart. There are so much emotion and memories lies in just these few words
I would say the novel helped me to get over those awkward facial motion in the game....so I didn't really sense any problem between the characters much
On August 20 2011 01:01 SageFantasma wrote: A lot of animes suffer from this too. Most of the time either the English actors have bad portrayal of the character, or their voice is just annoying. I'll always watch the English version though because I can't really pay attention to the action when I'm busy reading subtitles >_<.
I would strongly suggest just do it. I forced myself to learn and honestly now, I barely register that I'm reading subtitles anymore. I've even picked up quite a bit of Japanese grammar from watching that way. I mean would you prefer 'Vash the Stampede' or... 'VASHEE ZE STAMPEEDOOO!' So much more awesomeness.
always people hating on FFX- easily my favorite in the series also. i fucking loved tidus and yuna as characters, hell i loved all the characters. the story, the voice acting, the gameplay, everything was just amazing to me.
i've since tried to go back and play ff7,8, and 9 but they just dont do it for me like ffx does.
On August 20 2011 01:02 dkh wrote: If I were to begin playing Final Fantasy, what would be a good first game/order of games? There's just so many parts, to a newcomer that seems incredibly hard to get into.
That's a toughie.. A lot will have to do with your personal tastes. I began with Final Fantasy because I grew up with the NES, though I did try afterwards to have some sort of progression within the numbers, eg. 1 sequentially through 13. I haven't played 2 or 3 yet because I want to play the original famicom versions, more for curiosities sake than anything else.
Also if it helps my progression was (if I'm remembering this correctly): I, VI, V, IV, VII, VIII, IX, X, XII. You can see the beginning was all over the place, just know that with the older FF games there will be a decent amount of grinding involved.
If I were to suggest some, out of these, IV, VI ,VII and X are strong ones to begin with. VIII and IX are good too, but quirky at times. Oh yea, there is also no correllation between worlds, each FF game is an entitiy of it's own, aside from FFX and X-2 and the upcoming XIII-2 (oh and Tactics and XII? is that right? never played Tactics).
Great read OP. I'm watching my roommate play through FFX over the past few weeks (having never played it myself) and it's quite interesting. I really don't care for voiceovers, ever. It's the book vs. movie comparison. A great movie can be made out of a book if they get lucky and land great actors/directors, but chances are it might not be, and the book will always have more to offer. There's something much more charming and immersive about reading the entire game.
That being said overall it wasn't too bad, and could have been much worse. I certainly wouldn't call it the best in the series though, and usually I'm the kind of person that can see one side of a strong argument and understand it even if I disagree. But in this case I just can't agree to the extremity which with most players and critics do. A great game along side many others (non-FF) perhaps, but the best game in the FF series? That's a tall feat. And I disagree.
Playing through FF9 on and off for the first time myself. I have previous playing experience only with 7 and 8, watching 10 and 12 almost in their entirety. I have not been fortunate enough to be able to play 6 or anything previous, but I would really really like to.
FF X is pretty fun. The plot and characters I don't really like to be honest but the gameplay is good.
The one that I can never play again is FFX-2. Great gameplay, I love RPGs that let you switch jobs like that. But everything else... oh my god. It's too much. I remember when I first played it, I muted the intro song out of shame that my family would hear it.
On August 20 2011 02:08 Kurr wrote: FF X is pretty fun. The plot and characters I don't really like to be honest but the gameplay is good.
The one that I can never play again is FFX-2. Great gameplay, I love RPGs that let you switch jobs like that. But everything else... oh my god. It's too much. I remember when I first played it, I muted the intro song out of shame that my family would hear it.
haha same. I remember me and my sister bought X2 and brought it back to play in the living room with my dad watching. The whole game was just weird, and when the three girls did that pose with the letters Y R P on the bottom it was just too much. It was like some corny K-pop movie. And Riku keeps saying poopie.... I like the combat system though. X-2 is the only FF game I've ever owned, I played FF7 at my cousin's and it was fun. Is there something like an optimal combination for the three? I usually put Yuna as black mage, Riku as warrior(until I get dark knight), and Paine as white mage. Should I switch around their garments during battles more? I've been experimenting with starting Yuna as the dance/singer to buff up everyone, then switch to mage or gunner.
First FF game I played was 8. I loved every minute of that shit I can't get into the 2 prior though I haven't played any of the others after. Waiting on the latest FF(15?) to come out as well had it on pre-order since September last year.
there hasn't been a FF i haven't enjoyed whiled playing. They were always released so far apart so I'd forget all about the old games when I played the new ones.
So what I'm trying to say is, when I was playing FFX I loved it the best. When I was playing FF12 I loved that the best. LOL. All games were fun in their own aspects. FF12 had the fun real-time battle system, FFX had the revolutionary graphics, FF9 had this cute old-fashioned touch, FF8 had this mature-lovestory charm for kiddies, FF7 had a fantastic story... I have yet to play FF13 but I'm sure it'll be awesome too.
I wasn't much of a fan of the story either, but I found that the OST was really something that I enjoyed. Uematsu is a genius when it comes to these things, and he didn't fail to meet expectations yet again.
FFVII is and always will be the absolute greatest FF game, and perhaps the greatest RPG. The music is absolutely incredible; it's the only game I've ever downloaded the soundtrack to. I get so much nostalgia just hearing it or watching it.
I feel bad for younger gamers that haven't and probably won't ever play it, or those who get turned off by the older graphics and won't give it the try it's worth.
I agree with your original assessment about FFX. I don't care if Tidus is realistic or believable. He sounds irritating and whiny. And the whole plot revolving around his dad who somehow managed to become a monster and destroys cities against his own will... wtf it's all so stupid.
A friend of mine said the tone of the characters is quite different in the Japanese versions of all the FF's, partly because its difficult to translate a lot of the intricacies of the Japanese honorific system. He wasn't a native speaker though, and my Japanese isn't good enough to make a judgement.
It's usually true though that in translations they attempt to create/change characters into things that Western audiences will be more comfortable with
Wow I never knew people had a soft spot for FFX. I stopped following FF a long time ago since 8 or 9. And I'm always hearing people gush over 7.
On August 20 2011 02:44 HackBenjamin wrote: My biggest gripe in this game was Wakka, yeah? What kind of accent is that anyway, yeah? Oh, and how he ends a ton of sentances with yeah, yeah?
Hated Wakka >_< Kimahri was sick though, probably one of my favorite FF characters of all time
A lot of characters out of Japanese media seem to have weird speech disorders like that, dattebayo.
On August 20 2011 03:50 Ownos wrote: Wow I never knew people had a soft spot for FFX. I stopped following FF a long time ago since 8 or 9. And I'm always hearing people gush over 7.
On August 20 2011 02:44 HackBenjamin wrote: My biggest gripe in this game was Wakka, yeah? What kind of accent is that anyway, yeah? Oh, and how he ends a ton of sentances with yeah, yeah?
Hated Wakka >_< Kimahri was sick though, probably one of my favorite FF characters of all time
A lot of characters out of Japanese media seem to have weird speech disorders like that, dattebayo.
Rofl I was half way through your last line and I swear I was going to answer you and finish my line with dattebayo.
I'm always split when it comes to the Japanese vs English voice actors/actresses in Final Fantasy games. Mostly I prefer the Japanese counterparts but the English dub has some gems (Fran from FFXII just sounds so much better in English).
Also one of Auron's most iconic lines from the English dub, "Every story must have an ending" is much more powerful than the Japanese counterpart「お前の話は終わらない」 ("Your story won't end").
Blitz ball was the shit. I never beat it not that into rpgs but i gave up fighting sin on the top of the ship. The one where he just powers up and you have to kill him before he finishes. Pretty sure you have to grind a little bit to beat that.
Oh my god.... I still remember thinking wtf is my sound broken? I'd like to play it in the original Japanese with subtitles, because Tidus' voice was pretty damn annoying and whiny. Doubt I'll end up doing it though.
watching the japanese dub... it feels like anime and all the voices seem like anime stereotypes.
i do agree with the guy that says subtitles take away from the action. one day i decided to watch j-drama/anime without subtitles, in japanese. it was a world of difference. it feels like you actually focus on screen and pick up on everything. unfortunately i didn't know half the stuff they were saying.
i used to be of the school that japanese voices were so much better, but after spending a lot of time watching japanese tv, i'm not convinced anymore. it's very, very stereotypical sounding, and i'm starting to understand why english dubbing seems exaggerated; because it's that way in the original.
as for ff10, i really enjoyed it. there was something really fun about it, and i really liked the story and some of the symbolism behind it. i thought it had the best ending of all the FFs. (it was so good i was pissed when they announced 10-2.) there are ridiculous moments though. like wakka throwing a blitzball off the ship to hit Sin.
On August 20 2011 03:10 jdseemoreglass wrote: FFVII is and always will be the absolute greatest FF game, and perhaps the greatest RPG. The music is absolutely incredible; it's the only game I've ever downloaded the soundtrack to. I get so much nostalgia just hearing it or watching it.
I feel bad for younger gamers that haven't and probably won't ever play it, or those who get turned off by the older graphics and won't give it the try it's worth.
I agree with your original assessment about FFX. I don't care if Tidus is realistic or believable. He sounds irritating and whiny. And the whole plot revolving around his dad who somehow managed to become a monster and destroys cities against his own will... wtf it's all so stupid.
I'll take Sephiroth over that any day.
If you like a completely useless whining character (cloud) a really boring just completely insane bad guy (sephiroth) and a horribly boring system to define your characters (materia) then yeah ff7 is the best rpg of all time.
Being a dick aside, the soundtrack is amazing, but having played ff7 as a kid and fft right next to eachother, final fantasy tactics not only has more engaging gameplay, but a better storyline and more interesting characters. (Except nanaki, oh god is nanakis story awesome and sad :X)
(Also, I still play both FF7 and FFT to this day, I'm currently on disk 2 of like my 20th playthrough of 7, and chapter 3 on FFT)
I used to be a big fan of the Final Fantasy series, though that's diminished over the past few years. I've tried going back and playing some of them again (just tried IX), but I can't get myself to finish them. Maybe more recent RPGs have spoiled me, but characters in the Final Fantasy games are mostly boring and predictable. In particular, Vaan from XII was nearly unbearable for me, and I STILL haven't finished that game in spite of owning it for over three years now.
I never really thought to attribute these problems to localization though. Thank you OP for broadening my perspective .
On August 20 2011 00:19 wo1fwood wrote: Edit: holy crap, I didn't even realize that it was FFX's 10th anniversary this year (exactly one month ago today), lol.
A good read overall, but this part has just blown my brains out :OOOO. At the back of my mind I had always considered FFX to be quite a new, fresh game. Time flies...
i think just by the virtue of blitzball it makes the game so good. i could've played bb all day over golden saucer in ff7 or the card game in ff8
if they expanded the blitzball minigame (have regular season, playoffs etc) instead of this endless sequence of individual games, it'd be better. and it becomes no fun when you just sniped all the best players using a loophole in the contract system as you can just pass with impunity and score like 12 goals a game, while having a keeper (or is it Keepa? ) that doesn't give up any more than 1 goal even if you screw up.
can't believe it's been 10 years tho. i feel old lol.
EPT
). The major difference was that I decided that I wanted to play with Japanese Audio this time around. Well I don't speak Japanese, so I had to see if there was an option to get English subtitles, and lo and behold! Having been a strong proponent of watching something in its original language, I probably get that from watching a lot of anime, I decided that this was the time to go back and look at it from a different perspective.
) that doesn't give up any more than 1 goal even if you screw up.
