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I need some serious help with my brother. Actually, my family needs some serious help with my brother.
He is a month away from turning 29, still has no job, no social life (let alone an actual life), no girlfriend, and no motivation to do anything whatsoever.
You could call him a lazy bastard that mooches off his parents until he's dead that doesn't have any friends, but it's a lot more complicated than that.
...or so my brother makes it out to be.
He's completely deaf in one ear and partially deaf in the other and has been diagnosed by a doctor with slight mental retardation. He is by no means worse off than the special ed kids I see at my high school who are literally retarded.
He is, however, weird enough to be considered stupid. He has an arched back you only see on people with severe scoliosis or that are 70 years old and have bad posture. He tucks his shirt in whenever he goes out and pulls his pants up, making him look like some weird grandpa. He wears a fanny pack in public...and to top it all off, he's been doing this ever since I could remember.
He's gone to college and barely made it out with a B.S in Comp Sci. Caught a glance at several of his english essays. I've never seen one above a D+. You'd think he was partying it up, getting wasted, getting high, having a blast...but he came out of college with no acquaintances. None. No friends, no enemies. If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say he just stayed in his room with the door closed the entire time. Why?
...I don't even know my own brother well enough to answer "why". He, for the life of him, cannot have a normal conversation with anyone without turning it into something stupid. Not even my own parents. Not even me. He has no sense of humor at all and takes offense to anyone that teases him. The only time I've seen him laugh was when he was watching "I Love Lucy." The instant I put on some C.K Louise, Dave Chapelle, or George Carlin, he just gives a blank stare at the TV.
I could go on forever describing his life. He watches cartoons meant for 5 year olds, he hates church, he doesn't go out unless my parents force him to, he hates school, he hates learning, he hates life, he contemplated suicide for a time in middle school...
Every time someone tries to help him, a new excuse comes out of his mouth. He says church is boring, so we get him an interpreter that we pay a shitload of money every sunday. He says the economy is bad and he can't get a job, so we find a job for him and he says something stupid. When he has no more excuses to throw out, he throws a fit. He's almost 29 for Christ's sake.
We've tried counseling. We've tried government jobs. We've tried every damn thing that anyone has suggested. He's dependent on our parents for support, and has no capacity for self-thought.
My family has no idea what to do anymore. I saw my mom crying the other day because my brother almost crashed the car on purpose with her in it when they drove home from the deaf church. My dad used to be annoyed. Then he became angry. And now, it's degenerated into hopelessness.
I've tried talking to him, but he just gives me the stare that you get from 12 year old kids when you take away their xbox 360 and give them a lecture. He knows I'm right, but I have no power over him. I tell my parents to do something about it, and they make the whole thing a mess again.
I think of a job that he could do, but I realize he can't talk with people. I say he should go see a shrink, but he says he already did and it didn't help. I say go outside, he says people are going to shoot him. It feels like I lose every argument I have with him because idiots don't understand reason.
This blog ended up turning into more of a rant rather than a plea for help...
What can I do?
 
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Be his friend, not another parent. It seems like you've inherited your parents agenda.
You should be a brother, bonding with him somehow (maybe SC), and guide him as a brother not as a nagging mom/dad.
How many times have you tried to have a conversation with him? Social skills come with practice.
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There comes a time when all the support/encouragement is not sufficient.
It's perhaps time to use tough love. Tough love is not abandonment - it is setting firm boundaries and standards that he must adhere to. An example would be cutting off monetary support. If he wants to live at your parents' home, he must pay rent.
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If it helps to hear, i have a cousin who was basically the same till he was 35 or so. But the thing is, he wasn't i'll or anything. He was just completely lazy.
I really don't have any advices for you. But as Azzur said, tough love could be one.
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People can only be helped if they want to be helped. Your brother seems to not want to be helped. The deafness is a complete bullshit excuse for anything and everything except not being able to hear. The rest of it is probably a more legitimate issue (social problems, looking weird, being dumb, w/e).
Your parents may think enabling him to continue his behavior is the best thing for them to do, and continue to do so forever. Or maybe they will tell him he cannot live with them anymore unless he pays rent, so he will have to get a job, or unless he goes to counseling, or whatever they feel he needs. If he is doing dangerous things like trying to crash the car with others in it because he is angry though, something needs to change.
When you love someone it is hard to step away, but if he refuses to take steps to make his own life better, endangers people who support him, and is not completely incapable of doing the things asked of him, it is time for tough love. You should do your best to communicate that to your parents.
So then is the problem of determining what you are going to do on your end, because your brother's actions still impact you significantly. You can't choose to kick him out or anything, that's up to your parents. You can choose to ignore him and avoid him, or do like mizU said and do your best to be friendly to him, or you can move out (maybe if you are old enough???) and remove him from your life except when you are visiting. The last one generally being the easiest way to deal with relatives who are very difficult to be around.
Gl! :/
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Dude, he's not going to fit into your family. He needs to live on his own, or possibly in a group home, depending on the degree of retardation. He also needs a menial job, something where they order him around a lot. With time, he will find people who accept him for who he is, maybe even a significant other.
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Not to be a dick, but i'd probably try to crash the car if i was forced to go to church when i don't want to. I understand wanting him to get a job and become independent, but maybe he's so angry at you guys for forcing religion or certain standards on him that he does nothing out of spite.
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Korea (South)11570 Posts
it sounds like he has severely poor self esteem issues. that could be the reason he never got around to making friends in school. It may have to do with his back and he's super self conscious of it. That combined with being legally deaf can cause him to feel like he will never be accepted. Maybe he was made fun of when he was younger in middle school / high school that caused him to stay away from people. Or something similar. then over time it just became worse.
I would personally stop trying to make it worse by telling him everything he's doing poorly. Instead try to be more assuring with him. Just try to get his confidence up so he will be willing to venture into the real world again.
Try playing games with him, and congratulate him for doing well for starters, and slowly get things more complicated like "hey let's go see a movie". Really, just hang out with him, and after a while try to get him to come hang out with you outside of your parents house.
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On August 08 2011 17:55 munchmunch wrote:
Dude, he's not going to fit into your family. He needs to live on his own, or possibly in a group home, depending on the degree of retardation. He also needs a menial job, something where they order him around a lot. With time, he will find people who accept him for who he is, maybe even a significant other.
I hate this response. The people that are supposed to accept him is his family. You and OP should try putting yourselves in his shoes. The kid has been dealt a shitty hand in life and is severely depressed.
It's kinda difficult to be normal and adjusted when you have a messed up back, mental issues, and social issues.
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On August 08 2011 17:36 imBLIND wrote:
Every time someone tries to help him, a new excuse comes out of his mouth. He says church is boring, so we get him an interpreter that we pay a shitload of money every sunday. .
What can I do?
For some reason I'm thinking that church wasn't boring because of him being deaf. Church is boring, period. You can't force your lifestyle on someone and expect them to accept it.
As for what you can do. I find this whole thing odd. I can't help but think you're either trolling or extremely envious. You're name is imBLIND, your quote is im deaf.
On one hand your trolling, on the other you're mocking your disabled brother that you've been jealous of forever.
Edit: Bans me from posting because he doesn't like my opinion. Nice usage of censorship. Maybe you should take note of the points I've made and address them.
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hmm it really sounds to me like he is mildly autistic. If that's the case, I would first find him some proper counselling on the issue.
About the job and social life thing, people with mild autism will generally always have social problems so I would try and find him a job with minimal people interaction like working in a factory or some other type of blue-collar job. Also people who are slightly more on the autistic side are better at mechanical things so this would probably suit him more than say... working your regular 9-5 office job with random assholes.
As for the whole brother thing, I think you just have to be there for him and try and place yourself in his shoes. Sadly, I don't really think he ever will be normal (because this is more one of those permanent biological things you just have to deal with) so try and find him some proper help and a better diagnosis and just be there for him instead of trying to steer him into a 'normal' life.
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On August 08 2011 17:53 RedJustice wrote:
People can only be helped if they want to be helped. Your brother seems to not want to be helped. The deafness is a complete bullshit excuse for anything and everything except not being able to hear. The rest of it is probably a more legitimate issue (social problems, looking weird, being dumb, w/e).
Your parents may think enabling him to continue his behavior is the best thing for them to do, and continue to do so forever. Or maybe they will tell him he cannot live with them anymore unless he pays rent, so he will have to get a job, or unless he goes to counseling, or whatever they feel he needs. If he is doing dangerous things like trying to crash the car with others in it because he is angry though, something needs to change.
When you love someone it is hard to step away, but if he refuses to take steps to make his own life better, endangers people who support him, and is not completely incapable of doing the things asked of him, it is time for tough love. You should do your best to communicate that to your parents
He doesn't want to be helped, but we can't kick him out and make him want help. I talked to my dad about kicking him out of the house about 6 months ago, and somewhere in our conversation, my dad told me he was thinking about committing suicide, and that if we did kick him out, he would most likely kill himself.
We gotta work up to the tough love solution, but as of right now, I have no idea what he wants to live for. Usually people want a family, lots of friends, lots of money, nice house, and that kinda stuff, but my brother...he doesn't have any of those dreams. In order for tough love to work, he's gotta have something to reach for. How the hell can I give him something to live for? (If only inception actually existed...)
On August 08 2011 18:14 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I would personally stop trying to make it worse by telling him everything he's doing poorly. Instead try to be more assuring with him. Just try to get his confidence up so he will be willing to venture into the real world again.
Try playing games with him, and congratulate him for doing well for starters, and slowly get things more complicated like "hey let's go see a movie". Really, just hang out with him, and after a while try to get him to come hang out with you outside of your parents house.
We try to encourage him, but it seems to do nothing. He's afraid of talking to other people, even when my parents and I are around. We leave him alone, and he just sits somewhere away from the crowd. We try and force him to talk to other people, he blames us for making it awkward. That happy middle ground doesn't exist for him because he has no will to talk to other people. It's so bad that he doesn't even play multiplayer on games because people would talk to him...back in the day when I started BW, he told me that "bad and mean people play on there."
We congratulate him for everything he does, and he just feels like it's insignificant. He's got a point; we basically say "good job" for doing the dishes on his own.
It's difficult to make him do anything of his own free will because he's so indecisive and unassertive. And when we play the brigand and force him to go out, he just holds it against us and throws a fit...
For example, every time I invite him to a movie with subtitles, he says he doesn't want to go. I then try to compel him to leave the house, and he still says no. I can't do anything from here; if he doesn't want to go, then he's intent on not going. My parents then walk in the scene and force him to go. I hated it when they did that, and I'm sure he does too. But what else can we do..
On August 08 2011 19:02 Hermasaurus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 17:36 imBLIND wrote:
Every time someone tries to help him, a new excuse comes out of his mouth. He says church is boring, so we get him an interpreter that we pay a shitload of money every sunday. .
What can I do?
As for what you can do. I find this whole thing odd. I can't help but think you're either trolling or extremely envious. You're name is imBLIND, you're quote is im deaf. On one hand your trolling, on the other you're mocking your disabled brother that you've been jealous of forever. a
Get out of my blogs.
On August 08 2011 19:03 Masamune wrote:
hmm it really sounds to me like he is mildly autistic. If that's the case, I would first find him some proper counselling on the issue.
About the job and social life thing, people with mild autism will generally always have social problems so I would try and find him a job with minimal people interaction like working in a factory or some other type of blue-collar job. Also people who are slightly more on the autistic side are better at mechanical things so this would probably suit him more than say... working your regular 9-5 office job with random assholes.
As for the whole brother thing, I think you just have to be there for him and try and place yourself in his shoes. Sadly, I don't really think he ever will be normal (because this is more one of those permanent biological things you just have to deal with) so try and find him some proper help and a better diagnosis and just be there for him instead of trying to steer him into a 'normal' life.
At this point, it isn't about being normal as much as it is getting him a life. He is actually pretty good with his hands, but his handicap prevents him from being involved with any sort of machinery around people because of safety precautions... I told him to start up his own job from his room, but he has no motivation to do so and throws random excuses at me and my family.
We try and steer him towards a better life, but he does not want a better life at all. We can't help him because he doesn't listen, and he doesn't exactly "care" about having us next to him, mostly because my mom and my dad have a difficult time getting their points across without being annoying. And when I step in to offer him advice and words of encouragement, my words just don't get through to him....
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Your parents should kick him out, end of story. He obviously does not want to do anything, and demonstrated his maliciousness and danger several times. There were a few murder cases recently with similar circumstances, I wouldn't wait until he turns violent. The attempted car crash should have been a wake up call. He has a degree, he will get by as a code monkey. He will learn to dress and behave properly and to value a job.
How the fuck did he manage that Comp Sci BSc anyway? Even I and my friends are struggling with it, and we aren't exactly the slowest zerglings in the control group.
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oh I completely forgot about the Comp sci degree. He probably got through it because he is a lot more left-brained than right-brained and good at math, right? People more on the autistic side generally are better at tasks that involve math and logic so I really would think he is a bit autistic (also factoring in his social anxiety issues). Are there jobs that he could do related to computer science (or something else that he likes) where there would be minimal interaction with people?
Reading your last responses of 'tough love' and trying to get him kicked out, I really think your family should seek some professional help related to people with forms of autism. I think at this rate you guys are doing more harm than good.
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On August 08 2011 19:33 Masamune wrote:
oh I completely forgot about the Comp sci degree. He probably got through it because he is a lot more left-brained than right-brained and good at math, right? People more on the autistic side generally are better at tasks that involve math and logic so I really would think he is a bit autistic (also factoring in his social anxiety issues). Are there jobs that he could do related to computer science (or something else that he likes) where there would be minimal interaction with people?
Reading your last responses of 'tough love' and trying to get him kicked out, I really think your family should seek some professional help related to people with forms of autism. I think at this rate you guys are doing more harm than good.
There are jobs like those out there that we have found for him, but even the most basic jobs requires an interview. He screws those up extremely badly. We've tried mock interviews with him, and we can't get him to think for himself at all.
I've talked to my parents about professional advice before, and they don't like it. He's gone to a few cheap sessions before, but my brother doesn't seem to change even after going 7-8 times. Maybe a more expensive shrink would help?
By the way, thank you ALL for the advice you've posted, whether it was a few sentences or a few paragraphs.
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He is probably autistic, how can you not have friends or a social life? He probably doesn't know how to relate to people well, should have it checked out like yea professional help, matters of the mind we are no able fathom not being psychologists and all.
My friend's brother is very similar. He's an adult, but very socially awkward, tucks in his shirt/high pants/hunched and all very much like you're brother. He has friends though, he's very juvenile and childish, he doesn't have an aim in life either. His parents are trying to get him into those really simple clerical jobs and such, but he's not particularly interested. His brother, my friend, often used to complain about him being such a weirdo, but recently much less so, when he does nowadays he seems sympathetic about it, it's like he found out it's not his brothers fault for being weird. I don't have the guts to ask him directly "Is your brother autistic" You cannot blame him (although when it comes to mental illness this is very debatable) for being as such, he may really be ill. Same with OC, anorexia and kleptomaniacs
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In short, you should stop being an ass about it and start caring about him. And his parents should stop caring and start being an ass about it.
What I mean by that, is instead of telling him how he should live his life, why don't you try seeing life through his eyes. Everyone does things in life for their own reasons, try and understand him instead of change him. You will get a lot further that way.
And by the sounds of things his parents are way too supportive. Maybe throwing him out to survive on his own may actually be the best thing for him.
However I know too little about psychology, and about the person in question for any of my advice to be solid. So please take it with a pinch of salt.
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Is he capable of holding a job? Yes/No
If yes, your parents just need to give him a drop-dead date of he's moving out.
If no, then get all of the testing done to see if he can be put in respite care.
If he's coherent, he'll respond. He's an adult and apparently capable of doing most things like an adult. You simply have to treat him as one.
It's not fun, but it's going to be the only available options if your parents want him out of the house.
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What would happen if you somehow popped him into the army? Just curious, you could probably tell us since you know him so well
Never heard a tale like this one before :O
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Posts like this make me sad because I just don't know what to do. One thing I did notice is you keep bringing up church. Why? From the story he doesn't want to go to church, but I also get a feeling he is being pushed to enjoy it.
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On August 08 2011 19:46 imBLIND wrote:
I've talked to my parents about professional advice before, and they don't like it. He's gone to a few cheap sessions before, but my brother doesn't seem to change even after going 7-8 times. Maybe a more expensive shrink would help?
I think that would be a good idea, and it would probably be a good idea for you and the rest of the family to be involved as well. You seem to be very involved in what you can do to help him, and right now it doesn't seem to be working. Talking to a professional as a family about what your brother needs, what you can do and what not to do etc might be a good idea. I think that a good shrink will see it as a bigger picture than just your brother alone and how he alone should change, because the environment around him will be very important for that to happen.
Expensive doesn't mean good but there should be people out there with experience of similar situations, expensive or not so expensive.
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get professional help, again, from someone good and appropriate. not your church's minister or the local sharman that your christian doctor referred you to. there are people out there who resolve issues like this on a daily basis, unlike anything you can imagine.
stop dragging him to church, that shit is only good if you're a believer and if you have hope. otherwise its just another thing to blame
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Wow, what a difficult situation. I can't give you any advice other than keep loving him. I'll keep your family in my prayers.
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He is diagnosed as retarted but finished a course and is able to drive? I can't imagine that working out
He finished Computer Sciences? Is he any good with programing? Maybe he's open to try getting one of those jobs over the internet, making websites or programming something?
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I don't ink you can just kick him out because he is a real danger to himself, but I think you need to do something extreme like send him away for a month or two to some sort of institution that will be able to talk sense into him and help him sort out his life. At this point I don't think there's anything that will help aside from intensive professional help.
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United States737 Posts
It sounds like he has never actually found anything he enjoyed in life, though you said he once laughed at I Love Lucy. Honestly it almost sounds like hes autistic and has strange attraction to the most random things. Maybe he can do something television related; there must be something he likes otter than I Love Lucy.
by the way, I've started reading a book called Confederacy of dunces that has a main character that your brother reminds me of, with his strange social behaviors and reliance on his parents without really feeling the need to get a job. maybe it offers a solution
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Get him to a doctor/psychiatrist. I am by no means an expert, but it sounds to me like he has a mental condition. Some medical attention might help.
Or maybe he was for some reason born without any ambition or desire. These issues are always very blurry.
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It seems like you are very distant from your brother, and it will be an endless struggle helping him until that changes. From the sound of it he's insecure to an extreme and all the pressure you and your parents are putting on him is doing more harm than good. He may be in the body of a 29 year old, but his mental age could be that of a child's.
One of my greatest friends in my life was an autistic guy I met online, about the same age now as your brother. In all the years I've known him he hasn't aged mentally in the slightest. The 16 year old him I knew years ago is no different than the 27 year old guy I know today. He was able to conquer his fear of people by using internet forums and such, but it sounds like your brother isn't willing to do that because he's had too many bad experiences.
Do NOT kick him out unless you consult a professional about the situation first. By the sounds of it he is a danger to himself and those around him and in his state of mind he's just too volatile. He's depressed, scared, and angry at himself and everyone around him. He struggles to express himself verbally, so he needs a physical outlet to fill that role in his life. His resistance to you and your family may be his way of coping with his own situation.
What he needs now is a friend, and as someone else pointed out you are acting more like a parent than a brother. You mentioned that you hate it when your parents force him to go places, so be his ally and defend him. Forcing someone to do something you think will benefit them after they've communicated to you time and time again that they don't like doing that is a selfish act. It only makes you feel better having that reassurance that he actually left the house for awhile, but to him it's just another negative experience he was forced into by the people he should trust most.
I can tell you are all stressed and at wit's end, but keep in mind that no one has it worse than your brother right now. Reconnect with him; find out who he is. Spend a lot of time with him and try to find out about the things he likes doing and use that to bond with him. There has to be something he's passionate about in life, and you can use that to talk to him and work on his social skills. Ask him lots of questions, and try to give him the lead in conversation. If he opens up to you try and bring a friend into the picture. If he refuses, drop it, and ask him again in a week or so. Introducing him to an online forum related to his interests might help at a later stage as well. Just explain that there are people on there that would want to talk to him about that thing he loves, even if it's just a kid's show.
Building his social skills may be he confidence booster he needs to pick himself up and face life head on.
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This thread kinda reminds me of the book mice and men, as if your brother is lennie and you are george. Anywho, I agree with other people where you should try and get close to your brother bro to bro, and eventually make him go around with you and break out of his social shell.
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Well if he managed to get a B.S in Comp Sci, he cant be retarded. I have to guess some kind of autism like alot of other people here.
Also this thing when you force him to church is really disturbing. Trying to shove a religion down someones throat is never good, even if it is a family member. Luckily it seems like he is too smart to fall for that crap?
EDIT: If his autism is severe enough it is possible that he'll never will manage to hold down a normal job. My sister works with that kind of thing.
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I haven't heard about what he wants.
I heard a lot about what is wrong with him, what people want him to do, fair enough, but what makes him happy? Is he unhappy? Where are his thoughts on all of this?
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On August 08 2011 22:07 Sablar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:46 imBLIND wrote:
I've talked to my parents about professional advice before, and they don't like it. He's gone to a few cheap sessions before, but my brother doesn't seem to change even after going 7-8 times. Maybe a more expensive shrink would help?
I think that would be a good idea, and it would probably be a good idea for you and the rest of the family to be involved as well. You seem to be very involved in what you can do to help him, and right now it doesn't seem to be working. Talking to a professional as a family about what your brother needs, what you can do and what not to do etc might be a good idea. I think that a good shrink will see it as a bigger picture than just your brother alone and how he alone should change, because the environment around him will be very important for that to happen. Expensive doesn't mean good but there should be people out there with experience of similar situations, expensive or not so expensive.
Quoting because of how good this advice sounds to me in your situation.
(I'm also almost 100% sure there are psychiatrist who specialize in autism. Perhaps that's also something your family can look into?)
It's probably also very good for your parents being able to talk about this problem with a professional. Because you are saying they are getting depressed and hopeless and in that state of mind (although perhaps understandable given how much they tried) they certainly can't help your brother.
ps. It sounds a bit to me as if your brother has trouble finding a purpose in life / feeling useful / contributing to society in a meaningful manner. If that is indeed the case and he gets very depressed by it, it might even cause him to shutting down completely.
And forcing him to go to church is something that can enhance this feeling even further. Although your parents are without a doubt doing it with the best intentions at heart it's not the correct path imo.
At his age finding God/religion is something you have to do on your own. Not because your parents make you go to church. No matter the amount of money you spent on the extra help for him to understand it. It just won't work if he isn't open to it. Or perhaps even blames God for the way he feels / his body behaves.
pps. I also agree with you that it would be healthier for everybody if he had something to do during the day. Or if all other options have failed a day care facility where he can go during the day to give your parents some rest. But this might perhaps only be available for people with a much more severe form as it seems your brother has. It's very hard to judge from a forum post.
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EPT
