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On July 23 2011 07:30 Daigomi wrote:
A literate person has a vocabulary of roughly 2000 words, so imagine what it feels like to try to learn 50% more words than you spent your entire life learning.
That's way lower than the actual number. The average person with a high school education knows about 10,000 words, I would guess. Googling around the web, the estimate for a college educated person is 20-25k. Actually, it seems hard to find good references for this, but one good article I did find is http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/howmany.htm, which suggests the actual number of words for a college student could be as high as 60k.
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On July 23 2011 07:57 Daigomi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 07:54 Z3kk wrote:On July 23 2011 07:30 Daigomi wrote:On July 23 2011 07:25 Z3kk wrote:
@Daigomi: Right, but they have these massive books with 5000 words, and I have heard from someone using one that there are cycles of these words, so one can narrow down the study words to around 500-1,000 or something like that. I don't know the methodology or anything like that, but I've just heard this. Haha, have you ever tried to learn 1000 new words? A literate person has a vocabulary of roughly 2000 words, so imagine what it feels like to try to learn 50% more words than you spent your entire life learning. I remember when I studied for the vocab, I took something like the 500 most common words, went through them and crossed out everything I already knew which left me with about 200 words. Those words took me forever and a day to learn. Fortunately I found the vocab fairly interesting so it wasn't too bad. In the end, you use those words on maybe five of the questions out of the 30 vocab questions you get. Okay, I take your word for it because you've actually taken the GRE, heh. To be fair, though, not all 1000 words are necessarily new, and a lot of people devote a crazy amount of time to pure studying. Yeah, like I said you can study for it, but it's hardly cheating if you have to spend three weeks studying just to get a few words you know :p
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that they're cheating :O
...though I guess I was by corollary, even though I didn't mean it ><
The person who told me this did end up getting a 1600, and was much, much more comfortable speaking Chinese than English, though, so go figure.
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South Africa4316 Posts
On July 23 2011 08:21 munchmunch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 07:30 Daigomi wrote:
A literate person has a vocabulary of roughly 2000 words, so imagine what it feels like to try to learn 50% more words than you spent your entire life learning. That's way lower than the actual number. The average person with a high school education knows about 10,000 words, I would guess. Googling around the web, the estimate for a college educated person is 20-25k. Actually, it seems hard to find good references for this, but one good article I did find is http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/howmany.htm, which suggests the actual number of words for a college student could be as high as 60k.
You're right, I quickly perused wikipedia but it seems I took that stat out of context. This says that it's 12,000 for high schoolers and 17,000 for university students, although you'd understand 96% of spoken language if you knew the 2000 most common words 
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I hate the GRE. Such a stupid test that basically is there just for money :[ Does not show a students potential at all for graduate school.
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It's only for US schools thankfully, so I'm glad I'm applying to Canadian and UK schools as well. It's really hard to stay above the curve in my math program because of blatant cheating on pretty much every final, not surprised to see things are similar with the GRE.
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On July 23 2011 08:28 Slaughter wrote:
I hate the GRE. Such a stupid test that basically is there just for money :[ Does not show a students potential at all for graduate school.
Yeah, it's just life, I guess 
One needs a way to efficiently assess the intelligence of a very large pool of applicants, and standardized testing is one (not necessarily 100% correct) approach.
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Oh. I know about this. I saw some of these questions before I took the GRE.
Most of these comes from South Korea, as far as I know. Also, the effect of these leaked questions, and the effect of GRE on your school scholarships, are largely exaggerated. Furthermore many of the questions are extremely incomplete/wrong.
If I recall correctly, out of the 23 verbal questions I had, there were only two questions that were on the set of leaked questions.... and they weren't from the reading comprehension part, just word association (which is easy). And no, they don't give the same questions to everyone in one month. Instead, they have a huge pool of questions which they draw upon somewhat randomly.
Also, I honestly doubt your GRE, especially general GRE, has any real value in your graduate school application. For one instance, a very strong student from my university answered "B" on all questions and still got in PhD at Princeton University. Perhaps more importantly, the general GRE does not accurately measure the strength of the student or the likelihood of his/her success in graduate school. All the admission officers I talked to say this: the general GRE is just a formality. So long as applicant can do reasonably well (I believe 1200-1300+ is reasonably well), it won't hinder your application at all.
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@Sufficiency: that is actually very good to know, and I have sort of suspected that, but hearing it from someone whom I trust (TL for the win) in no uncertain terms is very reassuring, haha.
...how does it compare to the SAT, though? Your tag says Canada, so does that mean you didn't take the SAT?
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On July 23 2011 09:13 Z3kk wrote:
@Sufficiency: that is actually very good to know, and I have sort of suspected that, but hearing it from someone whom I trust (TL for the win) in no uncertain terms is very reassuring, haha.
...how does it compare to the SAT, though? Your tag says Canada, so does that mean you didn't take the SAT?
I never took SAT, sorry. But I know for a fact that the SAT tests real knowledge of the student, unlike the general GRE, which tests soft skills.
The OP is somewhat under the impression that the general GRE changed because of "rampant" cheating. The real reason is actually that the old general GRE is a retarded test. I understand the need for admission to be able to compare students from different universities, but in that case, the subject test is more meaningful.
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On July 23 2011 09:09 Sufficiency wrote:
Oh. I know about this. I saw some of these questions before I took the GRE.
Most of these comes from South Korea, as far as I know. Also, the effect of these leaked questions, and the effect of GRE on your school scholarships, are largely exaggerated. Furthermore many of the questions are extremely incomplete/wrong.
If I recall correctly, out of the 23 verbal questions I had, there were only two questions that were on the set of leaked questions.... and they weren't from the reading comprehension part, just word association (which is easy). And no, they don't give the same questions to everyone in one month. Instead, they have a huge pool of questions which they draw upon somewhat randomly.
Also, I honestly doubt your GRE, especially general GRE, has any real value in your graduate school application. For one instance, a very strong student from my university answered "B" on all questions and still got in PhD at Princeton University. Perhaps more importantly, the general GRE does not accurately measure the strength of the student or the likelihood of his/her success in graduate school. All the admission officers I talked to say this: the general GRE is just a formality. So long as applicant can do reasonably well (I believe 1200-1300+ is reasonably well), it won't hinder your application at all.
A question from a curious foreigner, what IS it that the admission officers look at then when picking students?
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On July 23 2011 09:09 Sufficiency wrote:
Oh. I know about this. I saw some of these questions before I took the GRE.
Most of these comes from South Korea, as far as I know. Also, the effect of these leaked questions, and the effect of GRE on your school scholarships, are largely exaggerated. Furthermore many of the questions are extremely incomplete/wrong.
If I recall correctly, out of the 23 verbal questions I had, there were only two questions that were on the set of leaked questions.... and they weren't from the reading comprehension part, just word association (which is easy). And no, they don't give the same questions to everyone in one month. Instead, they have a huge pool of questions which they draw upon somewhat randomly.
Also, I honestly doubt your GRE, especially general GRE, has any real value in your graduate school application. For one instance, a very strong student from my university answered "B" on all questions and still got in PhD at Princeton University. Perhaps more importantly, the general GRE does not accurately measure the strength of the student or the likelihood of his/her success in graduate school. All the admission officers I talked to say this: the general GRE is just a formality. So long as applicant can do reasonably well (I believe 1200-1300+ is reasonably well), it won't hinder your application at all.
Yea I remember when I was applying to graduate schools a couple didn't even want your GRE score. I think when programs get a lot of applicants though I have heard that it can be the initial weeding out process (like in my field I have heard a couple of the really competitive ones don't even look at your app if you have below a 1300). Every school/department is different though.
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On July 23 2011 09:40 gullberg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 09:09 Sufficiency wrote:
Oh. I know about this. I saw some of these questions before I took the GRE.
Most of these comes from South Korea, as far as I know. Also, the effect of these leaked questions, and the effect of GRE on your school scholarships, are largely exaggerated. Furthermore many of the questions are extremely incomplete/wrong.
If I recall correctly, out of the 23 verbal questions I had, there were only two questions that were on the set of leaked questions.... and they weren't from the reading comprehension part, just word association (which is easy). And no, they don't give the same questions to everyone in one month. Instead, they have a huge pool of questions which they draw upon somewhat randomly.
Also, I honestly doubt your GRE, especially general GRE, has any real value in your graduate school application. For one instance, a very strong student from my university answered "B" on all questions and still got in PhD at Princeton University. Perhaps more importantly, the general GRE does not accurately measure the strength of the student or the likelihood of his/her success in graduate school. All the admission officers I talked to say this: the general GRE is just a formality. So long as applicant can do reasonably well (I believe 1200-1300+ is reasonably well), it won't hinder your application at all. A question from a curious foreigner, what IS it that the admission officers look at then when picking students?
I am in biostatistics. I remember one admission officer said that he was looking for good background in mathematics, statistics, and strong interest in science.
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On July 23 2011 09:49 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 09:40 gullberg wrote:On July 23 2011 09:09 Sufficiency wrote:
Oh. I know about this. I saw some of these questions before I took the GRE.
Most of these comes from South Korea, as far as I know. Also, the effect of these leaked questions, and the effect of GRE on your school scholarships, are largely exaggerated. Furthermore many of the questions are extremely incomplete/wrong.
If I recall correctly, out of the 23 verbal questions I had, there were only two questions that were on the set of leaked questions.... and they weren't from the reading comprehension part, just word association (which is easy). And no, they don't give the same questions to everyone in one month. Instead, they have a huge pool of questions which they draw upon somewhat randomly.
Also, I honestly doubt your GRE, especially general GRE, has any real value in your graduate school application. For one instance, a very strong student from my university answered "B" on all questions and still got in PhD at Princeton University. Perhaps more importantly, the general GRE does not accurately measure the strength of the student or the likelihood of his/her success in graduate school. All the admission officers I talked to say this: the general GRE is just a formality. So long as applicant can do reasonably well (I believe 1200-1300+ is reasonably well), it won't hinder your application at all. A question from a curious foreigner, what IS it that the admission officers look at then when picking students? I am in biostatistics. I remember one admission officer said that he was looking for good background in mathematics, statistics, and strong interest in science.
Well that sure sounds general lol, it's very easy to get accepted for an M.Sc in Sweden (atleast compared to the US), however I'm considering atleast trying to apply to grad schools in UK/US and see how it goes.
Electrical Engineering here 
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On July 23 2011 10:00 gullberg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 09:49 Sufficiency wrote:On July 23 2011 09:40 gullberg wrote:On July 23 2011 09:09 Sufficiency wrote:
Oh. I know about this. I saw some of these questions before I took the GRE.
Most of these comes from South Korea, as far as I know. Also, the effect of these leaked questions, and the effect of GRE on your school scholarships, are largely exaggerated. Furthermore many of the questions are extremely incomplete/wrong.
If I recall correctly, out of the 23 verbal questions I had, there were only two questions that were on the set of leaked questions.... and they weren't from the reading comprehension part, just word association (which is easy). And no, they don't give the same questions to everyone in one month. Instead, they have a huge pool of questions which they draw upon somewhat randomly.
Also, I honestly doubt your GRE, especially general GRE, has any real value in your graduate school application. For one instance, a very strong student from my university answered "B" on all questions and still got in PhD at Princeton University. Perhaps more importantly, the general GRE does not accurately measure the strength of the student or the likelihood of his/her success in graduate school. All the admission officers I talked to say this: the general GRE is just a formality. So long as applicant can do reasonably well (I believe 1200-1300+ is reasonably well), it won't hinder your application at all. A question from a curious foreigner, what IS it that the admission officers look at then when picking students? I am in biostatistics. I remember one admission officer said that he was looking for good background in mathematics, statistics, and strong interest in science. Well that sure sounds general lol, it's very easy to get accepted for an M.Sc in Sweden (atleast compared to the US), however I'm considering atleast trying to apply to grad schools in UK/US and see how it goes. Electrical Engineering here
It does sound general, but that's seriously the best advice that can be given. Take a lot of graduate courses, try to participate in research, etc.
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Everything I have heard suggests that most schools are not particularly interested in a stellar GRE. They typically have a "cutoff" below which your application would be damaged, but there is little premium for high scores. So the GRE is unlike the SAT or the LSAT in this regard.
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On July 23 2011 09:40 gullberg wrote:
A question from a curious foreigner, what IS it that the admission officers look at then when picking students?
For North American math/phys/CS grad schools, it's (1) reference letters, (2) research experience, and (3) grades, roughly but not necessarily in that order. Admission decisions are usually made by professors, rather than admission officers.
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On July 23 2011 09:17 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 09:13 Z3kk wrote:
@Sufficiency: that is actually very good to know, and I have sort of suspected that, but hearing it from someone whom I trust (TL for the win) in no uncertain terms is very reassuring, haha.
...how does it compare to the SAT, though? Your tag says Canada, so does that mean you didn't take the SAT? I never took SAT, sorry. But I know for a fact that the SAT tests real knowledge of the student, unlike the general GRE, which tests soft skills. The OP is somewhat under the impression that the general GRE changed because of "rampant" cheating. The real reason is actually that the old general GRE is a retarded test. I understand the need for admission to be able to compare students from different universities, but in that case, the subject test is more meaningful.
I'm going to have to disagree with you about the SAT. If they had given the general GRE on paper, I honestly wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between it and the SAT.
Re: the OP's worries, because the GRE is a computerized adaptive test that changes the next question based on your answer to the current one, even if there is a general pool of questions you're very unlikely to come across the same questions if you take the test twice in the same period. That's also why I've always believed that studying vocab for Verbal is something you should skip entirely unless you're willing to dedicate a tremendous amount of time to it.
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To clarify the non believers: There are hundreds if not thousands of these people taking the GRE in the same month which the pools were being used. So it wasn't just one person remembering the answers. As the test gets harder-the more questions you get correctly the less the pool becomes-its just the nature of the test-less problems to remember.
I really cannot prove to you that this did happen. But, from my own experience a less than bright Chinese student whose English is horrendous was able to score a 1520 by cheating off of the pool.
Further Clarification-I have already obtained my Masters and will not be taking the GRE in my lifetime, I went to a business graduate school and only had to take the GMAT which is soooo easy. This was blog was to try to point out the weaknesses of this test.
I can say for the people who say the GRE is not important for some universities-This may be true but specifically in CHINA this test to get into a GRADUATE school is very important to them and their family.
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i'm not sure how these people pulled off this cheating anyway. the testing center i took the GRE at was extremely orewellian. you had to empty all your pockets into a locker outside of the testing room except for your photo id, you had to do a fingerprint scan before being allowed into the testing facility, the facility had cameras monitoring every testing station and the room itself, your photo id had to be face up on the table for the duration of the test, and you were not allowed to move your hands off of the desk or your test scores would be invalidated. if people managed to make it out with scrap paper with questions written on them, i'd be surprised, but maybe not every testing center was this intense.
still, the test is easy. however, to say it makes no difference is really an underestimate. grad schools are extremely competitive, so it's not like you can just guess at random and expect you'll get into the best school
edit: you also had to wear giant noise blocking headphones that made me feel like a progamer
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On July 23 2011 10:51 munchmunch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 09:40 gullberg wrote:
A question from a curious foreigner, what IS it that the admission officers look at then when picking students? For North American math/phys/CS grad schools, it's (1) reference letters, (2) research experience, and (3) grades, roughly but not necessarily in that order. Admission decisions are usually made by professors, rather than admission officers.
This. Generally speaking research experience and reference letters go hand in hand, because if you do great research in undergrad you should be getting great references as well. Grades come in 3rd because they are only a general indicator of ability, not a direct one like research. They still count but not as much as you might think.
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EPT
