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Some people have been asking for this post, and I was going to hold off on it for a while. A phone call last night made me change my mind though. So here, learn about the past 5 years of my life...
+ Show Spoiler [Start] +I started dating Andrea in 2007 after having sex with her at a party. We were really compatible and the sex was plentiful and awesome. For a good two years I was Andrea's entire world, and she even changed her major with the intent of aligning her future career with mine if we ever got married. She drank and partied with me and my friends, and everyone knew her to be almost too outgoing and a crazy good time.
+ Show Spoiler [Andrea's Past] +Andrea had a past however. At the time I felt she was doing very well despite her past, but as I got to know Andrea and our relationship progressed, eventually her past caught up with her in a particular nasty fashion.
Andrea has family issues. She grew up in the poorest and worst part of town, which had a lot of bearing on her childhood. Her father is an alcoholic who cheated on her mother. Her mother has no spine, but still managed to counter-cheat, and they divorced when Andrea was just 12 years old. Andrea has since lived with her mother and her biker husband in the same part of town, along with her spoiled fat stepbrother. Home life is not desirable. On Andrea's father's side, the entire family is addicted to either pills or alcohol and everyone is pretty much White Trash. On her mother's side everyone is pretty much OK, although there are some underlying issues as well. Andrea's childhood caused her to develop epilepsy from stress, and probably a severe case of OCD. The stress and OCD have pretty much defined her life, and it has given her crazy (but misguided) ambition.
+ Show Spoiler [Start of Darkness] +In 2009 Andrea started working with an older woman named Melanie who was a very tough mentor. Andrea's relationship with Melanie soon developed into an obsession however, and she claimed that she loved her. I found it pretty neat that my girlfriend was seemingly bisexual. I knew about it before but this was the strongest expression of it yet. As a way of getting closer to Melanie, Andrea started to read up about Melanie's home country in Eastern Europe. I found this a little crazy but in an endearing way; how wrong I was.
Andrea's personality started to shift by about August of that year. She dialed back her drinking and began ending nights out at or shortly after midnight. We still had a great relationship with great sex, so I brushed it off as her 'playing grown-up' and trying to mature. This was related to her obsession with Melanie however, as she wanted to appear more mature for Melanie.
+ Show Spoiler [The Fall] +2010 will go down for me as the worst year in history. While it started off fine, Andrea's obsessions during the winter school term quickly shifted to as similar a target as Melanie as they could find - another older woman from the same country in her class. Andrea followed her on the subway, and started learning her Eastern European language to better identify with her. I called her out on this as crazy, but she kept going. Through a carefully orchestrated and contrived "coincidence" of her reading Eastern European in class, Andrea duped the other woman into being friends with her. Did I mention Andrea also lied about her heritage in order to justify the language reading? They started to hang out and Andrea began to try to be more 'mature.' She basically faked the results of an eye exam (getting the weakest prescription ever) in order to get free glasses to make her appear older. She moved out of her apartment at school into a room in a house with an older family, which caused our sex life to wane since we didn't really have any privacy anymore. Come summer Andrea now became good friends with Melanie. I was glad to have a little time to myself for a change, but the subsequent sudden final shift in Andrea's personality basically made her un-dateable. All my friends noticed this. Andrea started leaving activities around 9pm and going to bed at 11-11:30, her drinking stopped, and she started running with Melanie almost daily. Andrea is 107 lbs and didn't need to run that much - she just wanted to spend time with Melanie. With the other friend Andrea would occasionally go to Toronto to hang out with the other woman and her much-older friends. Andrea is 23 and these people were on-average about 38; she was by far the youngest person of all of them. It was at one of these gatherings that another man of the same Eastern European ilk began to hone in on Andrea. I laughed it off because I never saw this guy as a threat, and in all normal logic he wouldn't be: he's 15 years older, short, not very attractive, has an average education and job, is once-divorced already, and cheats on his girlfriend. You can guess what happened. When Andrea told me a week later, it came as a huge surprise, since I never really thought of something like that as a possibility. If anything I thought it would end up being a girl, which I would have been cooler with, but with a guy who is in every, and I mean every, way less than I am was shocking and more than a little disheartening. My normally unflinching personality basically broke and for a week after I was wrought with depression and couldn't eat. I didn't always let it on, but I cared that much about her, and I was devastated. Two weeks later I broke up with her because I felt Andrea hadn't grasped how bad what she did to me was. It felt weird, since I'd never been without her for 4 years. We tried getting back together over Christmas (her idea), but it didn't last long because she kept talking to the man whom she cheated on me with, and I was too smart to let that continue.
+ Show Spoiler [Purgatory] +Andrea and I still care about each other a lot and we occasionally talk and very rarely hang out. Although in the past few months she's dropped some information bombs, such as: - She's been dating the other guy and loves us both but chose him (BS).
- He has Hepatitis (she was vaccinated) and it will one-day kill him.
- They bought a house together and are moving in together.
- He proposed to her and she said 'let's wait and see.'
- She is pregnant.
In that order. Under slow, paced, normal circumstances this wouldn't be all that bad, except for the fact that Andrea is fast-forwarding her way through life in order to say that she succeeded in spite of her parents. The way I see it is that this lands her square in the middle of the same fiasco her young and naive parents found themselves in. Life is supposed to have many great stages with different experiences in each, you can't cross off the cheapest version of each. She is sacrificing quality for time and she doesn't have to; she is ruining her life, and time is running out. My life now has been great minus the ineffectual and nagging thoughts of Andrea in the back of my head. Only when she talks to me is she ever really at the forefront of my mind anymore. My father's friend even said the other day that I look "way happier." I'm enjoying the near-constant company of my friends and family, and I'm also spending time with other girls. I don't necessarily want Andrea back, I just don't want her to screw up her whole life before it's too late. I can't help but worry that no one, not even Andrea, is going to stop her. She could have a much better life if she just took her time, not the mediocre 'settling' she's doing now. She will one day regret all of this, and her life will have been a waste. She says she constantly thinks about what life would have been like with me. It would have been awesome, but it will be like that for any girl that I end up with, because of me. This doesn't have to be my business and it isn't; I can let her do what she wants. It's just that I see tons of people do this all around me and in this case I actually know someone personally enough to be able to tell them to stop.
She called last night, and I told her how I feel about all this; that it is rushed, it could be better, and that she will be stuck in a place in her life that won't make her happy. Maybe in due time she'll come around before she gets too far gone. Maybe not. Do I let my friend whom I care about do this to herself?
  
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i would suggest have a real heart to heart talk with her like you basically posted here with everything on the table if u havnt done that already. other then that she sounds like she might need to see a real therapist or psychologist instead of a "mentor". Although this could turn dangerous I think it is your best chance in the current situation. Either way it seems that there isn't much in my eyes that would turn this situation around. if you want to be selfish it would be best to move on, if not then I would say be there for her when she realizes what mistakes she has made.
gl hf
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Not your typical girl blog. Wow. I cannot give you any advice, but I wish you the best. That's a crazy story, and I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I guess you're saying that you're just friends now--albeit still good friends--and you don't think that this is the best course of action for her. I guess I support Huk's advice. I think you should to talk to her and try to let her know what you truly think about this, but I promised not to give advice, so I'll leave it at that.
Best of luck to you and to Andrea.
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you can't control her actions. by telling her honestly and exactly what you think, without judgement, you've done all you can. youre duty is to be your own voice since it sounds like you're one of the few guiding lights in her life, even if she doesnt fully recognize that.
gj on telling her everything you thought, but MAKE SURE that if there are ANY feelings (positive or negative) between you, tell her. and you tell her the truth.
say i resent you for xxxx when its a negative thing, and
i appreciate you for xxxx when its a positive thing.
you sound like a mature person whose starting to move on. gl
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I went through a similar situation... except my GF actually turned complete lesbian... BEFORE she dumped me. As of now, though, we've been separated for several months. I've almost completely forgotten about her, and this may seem cold/uncaring, but I've almost completely stopped caring about her. I must say, though, that not being attached to her is a very nice feeling, especially after blindly 'loving' her for 3 years. Now that I look back, I keep wondering why the hell I stuck with her, even though we were on and off for the three years I mentioned.
Enjoy your freedom, bro. But eventually, some chick is gonna come around and rock your world. Don't give up hope.
Single bros fighting!
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On July 23 2011 02:26 Liquid`HuK wrote:
if you want to be selfish it would be best to move on, if not then I would say be there for her when she realizes what mistakes she has made.
gl hf
disagree on this part, be selfish, take care of yourself first, that is your main priority in life, and only when and if shes ready to turn things around do you see if she can fit into your life again. dont mean small favors like driving to/from airport or just little things, like if youve got a gf and you think you two have a chance, don't break up.
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She sounds like a factor 10 nutbar. And now your trying to save her from herself. She is a waste, unworthy of you now and deserves what she gets for the next 50 years of her life. She won't be happy, and you'll be her biggest regret in life. She chose this.
Move on, and god, please don't take her back. Keep living a positive life, and that girl who is worthy of you will appear, just like a wild pokeman.
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On July 23 2011 02:15 TheGiz wrote:
I started dating Andrea in 2007 after having sex with her at a party. We were really compatible and the sex was plentiful and awesome. For a good two years I was Andrea's entire world, and she even changed her major with the intent of aligning her future career with mine if we ever got married. She drank and partied with me and my friends, and everyone knew her to be almost too outgoing and a crazy good time.
This was your first issue. When a girl becomes this dependent at such a young age, you must realize that she has commitment issues. I see that you address this later in "Andrea's Past" but what I am trying to point out is that you needed to intervene at this point, and not have let it get so far in the first place. By intervene, I mean either break up with her or make her find herself. A healthy relationship can only be between two individuals where neither person is overly dependent on the other. Dependency is dangerous because it puts a lot of pressure on the supportive person (even though it may feel good sometimes, trust me, I've been there), and it makes the dependent person vulnerable.
As to the rest of your blog, it is indeed a very interesting story, but honestly it is somewhat predictable from a psychological standpoint. This is almost a textbook case of paternal attachment issues emerging as insecurity (hence the heavy partying, for example), dependency, and lack of identity. I could write a 5-page post on how those three are inter-related, what implications there are, what possible solutions there are, and why you should have known better, but it would all be superfluous given the current situation.
... but it will be like that for any girl that I end up with, because of me.
You clearly don't need any help in the confidence department or any consoling/advice because you are free from her as your anchor. You can at this point CHOOSE to help her or not. And if I understood your post correctly, besides the story this is the point of this blog. No one can tell you whether or not you should help her, because though we have read your experience with her, it does not fully put us in your shoes. It would be too judgmental to tell you to leave her where she is, but it is also too presumptuous to tell you that you are obligated to help her. Go with what you think is best.
I will say one thing, though: despite all my speculation about her potential psychological issues and how they are controlling her life, you must entertain the idea that she doesn't need help. There is a chance that this is truly what she wants for herself. I personally don't think so, but this is a delicate issue and you must muse over all of the possibilities.
If I were in your position, I would talk to her, and leave our mutual past completely out of it. I would not judge, I would simply try to understand. I would not give advice, but give opinions. But you are you, and I am me, and that is why this world is a great place to be ^^;
Good luck! FIGHTING!
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Went through a very similar thing with an ex (not the crazy part, the wasting her life part). After she cheated on me and I dumped her (right before I went to college), she got into a relationship with the guy she cheated on me with and then settled for mediocrity. She stopped exercising, gained an unhealthy amount of weight, began smoking, settled for some mediocre job instead of going for her dream (singing, and she's a gorgeous singer), and stayed in our high school town. She then moved in with this guy (who she has repeatedly said is not the ideal person for her to spend the rest of her life with), still lives in our high school town, and is pregnant at age 19 (planned). She is going to live a mediocre, lower middle class life with a guy she doesn't really want to be with for the rest of her life because he's going absolutely no where in life and she's giving up any potential by killing her health and having a child so young. It killed me for a long time. I felt guilty because even though it's been many years since I've been even remotely attracted to this woman in any way, I still care about her and I always will, so I wanted to help. It hurt watching her fuck things up so much when I cared about her and wanted her to be happy.
Unfortunately, in the end, these are just things you have to accept. I moved from a low middle class (borderline lower class) upbringing in a pretty small town, to going to an extremely expensive private college with my future looking quite bright at the moment. I almost never go back to my high school town because I don't want to see all of the people I knew and cared about that are wasting away so much potential by be lazy and not going to school or just settling for staying in a secure (but low paying) job that goes no where, or by just sitting around doing drugs all day, or by fucking up their entire life plans, ignoring their hopes and dreams just because of the person they're dating. Hell, I even see that here at college.
The best thing you can do is tell her how you feel and then move on - some people just can't be saved, and even if it hurts, you can't blame yourself at all for it.
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I Love Kittens has Spoken!!! huuuaaah
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Part of your problem is that you clearly view her as more than just a friend still, although you may not be conscious of it.
I don't know how much you really have a right to intervene. I don't think you really know this girl anymore. You know her history, what drives her, etc, but you no longer know her. She became who she thought she wanted to be, for whatever fucked up reason, and that person isn't the girl who made you her world. You will never have her back: even if you popped the question and she said yes it's very likely that she'd cheat on you again. Once a girl cheats, that's it -- save yourself from further pain.
I also don't know how much right you have to judge the people she hangs out with now since your view of them, your version of the "truth," is shrouded in your history with this girl.
It is NOT selfish to move on any more than it is selfish to tamper with her current love life.
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If any girl is willing to do that to you, and after making you feel degraded because of her cheating on you, you shouldn't try to get back together with her. it can only lead to trouble. I know you want to be there to help her but she obviously is interested in him much more... enough to get pregnant, live together, and possibly marriage... You should at most keep in brief contact with her, but to be honest, I would cut all ties... I see many more negatives than positives in this story. You have the confidence to meet a beautiful woman who won't treat you this way. Move on in my opinion.
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The way I see it. Her personality needed to latch onto too something ideal in her life.
At one point that was you, but once she began to shift.. you felt it. You can't change people, you can only express yourself. And sometimes that is in vain.
I think this is an interesting blog, sad at times also arised slight anger from me. I really share you're feelings that it's hard to standby and watch someone settled for less or choose a path you would never imagine.
I would agree with most here, that moving on in you're love life is the way to go. Especially if she is pregnant, not being harsh or anything. But love fades when the other has hurt you, having been dumped after one and a half year relationship I know the hurt.
The only advice I have is, regret hurts, it lingers, purging those emotions is healthy. Take it for what it is, you can't maker her perfect for you, you can't help her change her life.
You did what you felt was needed, spilling your heart out is always a good thing.
So long as you can smile on a daily basis, this will just be a strong memory with hopefully plenty of life lessons.
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You said 5 years, but you started dating in 2007, so it's 4 years :p.
But yah, not your typical girl blog. She sounds completely self destructive, and you already missed your opportunity to nip that. You said that you noticed a shift in her personality over her obsession with Melanie. You should have recognized this fake "love" and fought to keep her away from that crazyness.
Ultimately, you can't force someone you love to change or stay as how they are. If they want to go psycho and change their personality then you have to let them, or else you are forcing something that shouldn't be forced.
As for the cheating part, I understand. My girlfriend gave some guy a handjob while we were long distance for 9 months and I was pretty furious. If someone truly loves you they wouldn't hurt you or distrust you like that. Granted, I haven't broke up with my girlfriend yet over it, but we pretty much did for a while because I couldn't understand why she would do that with someone less successful, ugly, retarded, etc. I got back together with her though because we have been together for 2 years and it is super hard to let go.
Good thing though that you were able to let go, that is the hard part. Now you just need to get over her completely, which really the only way to do is to get into another relationship. You'll stop reminiscing about what could have been with Andrea for sure.
GL.
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If I am interpreting correctly what you said, you should by all means start over without her.
You can talk about the issues that you think she has all you want, but she will not change completely (in a way you think would be best for her) because her basic behaviour is probably not going to change.
If you approach the talk with basically telling her that she has a psychological problem, she will probably shut herself down from all your rational arguments.
That being said, the only way to ever find out if this is worth a shot ist to talk heart to heart with her like huk said. Everyone on this forum can not give you better advice than to rationally think about the situation and talk to her in person again. We do not know Andrea as good as you do.
The gist of my advice is to get over her if the talk didn´t work out and to find new happiness.
I have been in a relationship for 4 years also, and I thought she was the love of my live and that I would not be able to find another girl like her. That was not true 
So I hope things will work out for you.
Servus
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On July 23 2011 02:26 Liquid`HuK wrote:
if not then I would say be there for her when she realizes what mistakes she has made.
This may be a bit contrived, but I can't see her realizing her mistakes until it's far too late. Kids... marriage... broken homes. To be there for her then... what can he do? He'll be married or committed to someone himself. Just saying "I'll be there for her later" isn't doing anything.
On July 23 2011 02:32 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
you can't control her actions. by telling her honestly and exactly what you think, without judgement, you've done all you can.
Giving your own advice is in my opinion unlikely to be successful and he can do more...
I don't condone this... but you can probably manipulate her into leaving the guy. Hopefully get her to have an abortion if it's not too late.
Until an abortion is an impossibility, you can't really say to yourself "well, that's all I can do, I talked to her for twenty minutes."
On July 23 2011 02:51 ILOVEKITTENS wrote:
I will say one thing, though: despite all my speculation about her potential psychological issues and how they are controlling her life, you must entertain the idea that she doesn't need help. There is a chance that this is truly what she wants for herself. I personally don't think so, but this is a delicate issue and you must muse over all of the possibilities.
A very unpresumptuous ILK post. I picked out my favorite line, even if it weren’t ILK you should consider the advice he’s given.
I agree, maybe she is happy.
I still can’t wrap myself around whether you should help her or not.
On the one hand she is your friend, and you think she is ruining her life. Of course people should help their friends when they are in trouble!
On the other, you gain nothing from helping her. She leaves the relationship, then she finds another great guy. “Good for you! you deserve a pat on the back for your hard work!... yeah… that’s all. Were you expecting something more?”
You could be spending that time finding another girl. Someone who you might actually marry.
You’ll likely fail to convince her to leave her husband as you have no positive alternative to offer her.
There’s a great chance that you’ll (temporarily) hurt yourself if you decide to try to help her and fail.
GL
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I really sympathize with the guys who've been cheated on. It's basically the worst feeling in the world. Any semblance of confidence you may have had before is just gone, and it all has to be rebuilt again from scratch. I lost 10 lbs (not necessarily bad for me) and could hardly eat for a week. Normally I'm very good at compartmentalizing my life, but when something that big occurs it distracts you from everything.
Distraction is the key to getting back up on your feet. In the four months after Andrea and I broke it off for the last time I poured myself into schoolwork and Starcraft. Now I'm spending gads of time working out, reading this sick German history book, playing Catan, hanging out with friends and shooting Craps, spending time with family, meeting girl friends whom I would have avoided to prevent jealousy from Andrea, and watching a shitload of my new favorite show Skins. Life is only going to get better for me. Alas for those hanging around an old man's apartment trying not to be stressed out.
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Eh... Just reading the OP's description of some of the random characters in this story tells me the OP might not be the type of person who would benefit from any real advice I would have to give, but I'll try anyways.
In my mind, if you love someone, regardless if it is platonic or not, you should always try your best to help them. That is, as long as you are not dysfunctional yourself.
Whether your help succeeds or fails is never the point, the point is, that you really tried. You try because you care, it's kind of an important part of really loving someone. If you try and shit still hits the fan... well, at least you can always know you tried.... or maybe at the least they will remember your kindness and that will have other positive ramifications. What will drive you crazy, if you have any type of moral consciousness, is not trying it all, and then either having to try rationalizing to yourself why you couldn't take time out of your life to give helping her a shot, or regret what could have been different if you had.
It's just like anything else. Win or loose, the worse type of loss is always to a technicality you had no control over (the weather, lag, ect). In your case, the technicality is already there (her complicated personal problems that split you apart to begin with), but maybe you haven't lost everything between the two of you yet, because you seem to have the notion there is still something you can do to help. And if I were you (which I'm not) I would try what I thought was my best effort to do something about it. I'd sure like to think anyone who truly cared about me would do the same.
And seriously, some of these other comments make me a little sick. Maybe there is a reason I stay out of these personal blogs... 
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Sorry things between the two of you ended badly. I felt similarly after a breakup a few years ago. The parts in the back of my head that still seemed to care about her went away after I started dating again. The fact you still care about her makes you that much better of a person
I'm glad you told her how you felt about her situation. That's a very difficult conversation to even start, let alone get everything out you need to say.
My advice is to think about anything else you may need to tell her and then do it. You're not doing it out of romantic interest, rather, what any good friend would do.
Unfortunately, she reserves the right not to listen to reason. She'd probably been doing the "crazy" things long before you two met. Honestly, it sounds like she needs a lot of help. But the only person who can really help her is herself. Do what you can, but when you've put it all on the table that's it, nothing more you can do. The rest is on her...
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On July 23 2011 05:32 TheGiz wrote:
I really sympathize with the guys who've been cheated on. It's basically the worst feeling in the world. Any semblance of confidence you may have had before is just gone, and it all has to be rebuilt again from scratch. I lost 10 lbs (not necessarily bad for me) and could hardly eat for a week. Normally I'm very good at compartmentalizing my life, but when something that big occurs it distracts you from everything.
Distraction is the key to getting back up on your feet. In the four months after Andrea and I broke it off for the last time I poured myself into schoolwork and Starcraft. Now I'm spending gads of time working out, reading this sick German history book, playing Catan, hanging out with friends and shooting Craps, spending time with family, meeting girl friends whom I would have avoided to prevent jealousy from Andrea, and watching a shitload of my new favorite show Skins. Life is only going to get better for me. Alas for those hanging around an old man's apartment trying not to be stressed out.
I cant help but want to emphasize that. Life will get better, and you'll eventually forget about her until someone asks how many chicks you've dated or something.
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EPT
