it made me think a litte bit... i knew that the koreans who switched over to sc2 weren't s-class players by all means, or if they were, they were long-retired, and years after their prime. they were basically people who had under 10 live event games and where the rock bottom
There is also this video which made me luagh. it's the one about ZergBong vs Skyhigh and some foreign casters making fun of zergbong, our current NesTea, about how bad he was. now he's the best, or let's say around the thrown of the sc2 zergs.
what struck my mind in the "The Elephant in the Room" thread, was one player: IntoTheRainbow or just Rainbow. that guy was pretty okish, albeit many years ago, so i wonder why this does not translate a single bit to his sc2 skills. i mean obviously you can't translate them like you can translate one language into antoher, but i really expected more from him countless people who were interviewed said, that the work ethics and knowing how to practice can help you from switching to one game over to another, the actual task of what you are doing (i.e. the game you played) is not a factor, which i find quite interesting and surprising
and.. who is advokate? and why was he able to take a game off of jeadong in 2009?
ITR was good a LONG time ago. So long ago, that he was the one who perfected reaver control (IIRC)
The talent transfers over to SC2. This is why, IMO, ITR did well in the first two seasons of GSL. It's clear he doesn't practice as much as he did in BW, because he dropped off really quickly after that.
Fruitdealer is a similar story. Great in GSL season 1 while there was no other serious competition. He practiced very little and even by the next season he had slipped very far.
IMO the elephant in the room is still there, and will be for a longggg time. SC2 is just not as competitive right now as SC was or is. SC2 has not really been entertaining for me over the past 6 months, because the game seems so unrefined and bland. I find myself more and more attracted to BW everyday.
Which, by the way, is still churning out entertaining games every day. Today's PL games were really excellent; I suggest watching set 2 of SKT vs Wemade and looking at a real PvZ, BW style. Lot of PvPs today too, particularly in the CJ match (stork and Jangbi yeahhh)
OSL group stage later tonight as well, Flash and Jaedong will be playing. Quite a night if you ask me, all 4 TBLS playing, plus games from Fantasy, Hydra, Horang2, Jangbi, Mind, SoO, Bogus in OSL...some of the hottest players in the scene right now all playing tonight.
Jaedong vs Advokate i think Jaedong went mutas and Advokate went goliaths. Jaedong was upgrading weird shit like burrow for lings. TBH it wasn't a real game and only served to show the supreme confidence koreans had in beating foreigners. Often times they wouldn't even know the map.
advokate was a russian bw player from back in the day. he was pretty high up there in the foreign scene. he managed to take game 1 in a bo3 off of jaedong during wcg 2009.
advokate played an unorthodox (at the time) goliath/mm timing push. but, as much respect i have for advokate for taking a game off of jaedong without a bo win, i still think jaedong lost the game himself. he played really cocky against advokate. he opened 2 hatch lurker (pretty dumb considering jaedong had the best muta control at the time)... probably assuming foreigners can't micro against lurkers. advokate ended up opening mech anyways so he ended up scratching that and going 2 base hydra lols. he also researched everything possible... burrow, ol speed, drop, air carapace, etc. and pumped mad drones without expanding more than a late third. advokate wrecked him on his first attack with a goliath/mm force.
On June 22 2011 17:47 misclick wrote: advokate was a russian bw player from back in the day. he was pretty high up there in the foreign scene. he managed to take game 1 in a bo3 off of jaedong during wcg 2009.
advokate played an unorthodox (at the time) goliath/mm timing push. but, as much respect i have for advokate for taking a game off of jaedong without a bo win, i still think jaedong lost the game himself. he played really cocky against advokate. he opened 2 hatch lurker (pretty dumb considering jaedong had the best muta control at the time)... probably assuming foreigners can't micro against lurkers. advokate ended up opening mech anyways so he ended up scratching that and going 2 base hydra lols. he also researched everything possible... burrow, ol speed, drop, air carapace, etc. and pumped mad drones without expanding more than a late third. advokate wrecked him on his first attack with a goliath/mm force.
just a correction jaedong wins most of the times he goes muta or at least in 2008-2009 cause he never used it too often i dont need to tell you how essential it is to mix up the games
I'm in no position to evaluate whether this is true or not, but I'll throw it out there -- is it possible that the reduced mechanical requirements of SC2 actually increase the benefit to a player of having good timing and decision-making? Perhaps the very best of the best of Brood War were in that position primarily as a result of the enormous mechanical skill necessary to execute their strategies, while better strategic minds with weaker mechanical skill lagged behind?
If that were the case, it might well be that certain players who were weaker at Brood War for mechanical reasons could be stronger at SC2 simply because the game allows them to take better advantage of strategic thought and decision-making without bogging them down with issues of hand speed.
Interested to hear what BW experts think about that. Like I say, it's just a hypothesis, not something I'm stating as fact.
Edit: If true, it could be that the SC2 skill cap is not lower, it's simply shifted into a different skill set.
On June 23 2011 04:00 Lysenko wrote: Perhaps the very best of the best of Brood War were in that position primarily as a result of the enormous mechanical skill necessary to execute their strategies, while better strategic minds with weaker mechanical skill lagged behind?
i don't like this argument. all bw a-team pros have very good mechanics. now look at flash and what he is famous for and why he wins games. it's game sense and the decision-making that comes with it. not mechanics.
On June 22 2011 17:47 misclick wrote: advokate played an unorthodox (at the time) goliath/mm timing push. but, as much respect i have for advokate for taking a game off of jaedong without a bo win, i still think jaedong lost the game himself. he played really cocky against advokate. he opened 2 hatch lurker (pretty dumb considering jaedong had the best muta control at the time)... probably assuming foreigners can't micro against lurkers. advokate ended up opening mech anyways so he ended up scratching that and going 2 base hydra lols. he also researched everything possible... burrow, ol speed, drop, air carapace, etc. and pumped mad drones without expanding more than a late third. advokate wrecked him on his first attack with a goliath/mm force.
ah okay so jaedong was just messing around, he stomped him 3-0 the games after so igues it's forgiven.
Some more game if you like watching the current SC2 elite play back in BW
thanks for these, yea MC was heart IrOn or sth like that, he lost twice against Bisu in WCG 2008^^ before MC and Mvp came onto SC2 and wiped alot of people, i predicted this, because people said they are from broodwar, albeit not the good players. Mvp was just unlucky against Zenio in GSL 2 i think
On June 23 2011 04:00 Lysenko wrote: I'm in no position to evaluate whether this is true or not, but I'll throw it out there -- is it possible that the reduced mechanical requirements of SC2 actually increase the benefit to a player of having good timing and decision-making? Perhaps the very best of the best of Brood War were in that position primarily as a result of the enormous mechanical skill necessary to execute their strategies, while better strategic minds with weaker mechanical skill lagged behind?
If that were the case, it might well be that certain players who were weaker at Brood War for mechanical reasons could be stronger at SC2 simply because the game allows them to take better advantage of strategic thought and decision-making without bogging them down with issues of hand speed.
Interested to hear what BW experts think about that. Like I say, it's just a hypothesis, not something I'm stating as fact.
Edit: If true, it could be that the SC2 skill cap is not lower, it's simply shifted into a different skill set.
Strategy and decision making shouldn't be 100% of the game, micro and macro should matter, and since micro is only a tiny part of SC2 ofcourse players with weaker micro excell better at SC2 then they do at BW.
EPT
