EPTMost bronze can't macro past two base, so hit it at 2base, not 3base, when you'll be stockpiling resources.
My idea of a Protoss build. I'm a bronze player - Page 3
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bobwhiz
United States725 Posts
Most bronze can't macro past two base, so hit it at 2base, not 3base, when you'll be stockpiling resources. | ||
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Nazza
Australia1654 Posts
On June 10 2011 17:47 StrangrDangr wrote: No problem, you may want to check out Day[9] daily number 306, it shows a game from HasuObs doing a very similiar style. http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-306-a-simple-plan-hasuobs-pvt-5210490 OMG. WHITE RA SPESHUL TAKTICS Ok, maybe not, since he did get a 3rd expo. Although I would ask, if you aren't going to use the gateways for said period of time, then why not grab the 3rd earlier? Obviously, you'd want the 9 gateways up before your economy kicks in, so you can actually make units with your production. Other than that, you are in defense mode until you take the 3rd, get 2/2 upgrades. Day9 probably said it better than I did, but Hasu attacked at that time because he had the upgrades, and knew that at that point, he had the advantage in upgrades/economy. | ||
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blah_blah
346 Posts
On June 11 2011 00:07 BlueOrange wrote: Well, I haven't met any proxy rax play so far, but I think I can conclude a proxy rax being done with scouting early, and if I do obviously I won't go for this build. This is kind of funny since you don't scout at all in the replay (double gas steal is not scouting). You will straight up die to megarax type cheese, or most rushes for that matter. But even with that aside, the reason this is a bad idea is basically as follows. Let's say you and me are good players, and I use my warpgate cycles optimally, building just enough gateways and production facilities, and you build a bunch extra like in this video. We have mined the exact same amount of money, but you have spent a bunch of extra money on infrastructure. This means that at any time before we both max out, I am going to have an army larger than you, by the amount of extra money that you have spent on infrastructure (ignoring for a second that my sentries/templar will have more energy, which is an additional benefit). This is also ignoring the fact that gateway-only armies are typically already cost-inefficient against terran and zerg, unless you have extremely good control and fantastic FFs. You can't just throw away a chunk of your army size and expect to do well against good players. Now, I play a greedy PvT style and I regularly go up to 12+ gateways in lategame, but you start adding those extra gateways near 200 food and on 3+ bases, not on 2 bases. | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
-Double gas steal? Come on. :| The only time I gas steal a Terran is when it looks like he is doing a tech oriented build (AND IF YOU don't want him to do a tech oriented build). Needless to say, if he hasn't gotten gas by the time you reach his base, it is either way to early in the game and you are just wasting money and don't know what he will do, or he would have gotten gas by that point. -Never wall off vs Terran. Always wall off vs Zerg. Never wall off vs Protoss (Very situational, not worth breaking a sweat over the 1 in 100 times a wall off will help you). -You didn't get a single unit until you had 6 gateways, a forge, 2 nexus and 4 gas up. That is bad. Try learning the 1 gate FE (For PvT only, doesn't work vs Toss, situational vs Zerg), as that seems to follow what you actually want to do. Master the whole thing down to a T vs the comp before you even try it on the ladder. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142887 -Be sure to get a robo, always. You NEED observers, and immortals are good too. You can bother with collosi in the later leagues because (from my experience, though this was before amulet removal) gateway units work 100% fine in lower leagues. -Get the forge WELL AFTER your expo is done; you didn't use it for a very long time after it was built. -As a rule of thumb there is no necessity to EVER build more than 4 gates per base (8 on 2, 12 on 3, 16 on 4), and in most cases (All cases for you, young boy, get used to stressing your macro ability until you can keep up) you can only really support 2-3 per base. The exception to this rule is when you are ALREADY at 200/200, and you start to stockpile minerals, then it is appropriate to build extra gateways. As other people have touched upon, if you macro decently you don't need to build so many (until you are maxed). -Whenever you fight an army with ranged units (EG anything but mass zealot or mass ling) ALWAYS USE GUARDIAN SHIELD. It's really good, and it makes me cry to see you not use it vs mass marine. Also, you can reduce the number of forcefields you use by making sure they don't overlap. -Hotkey your forge, robos and stargates. -You built those 3 extra gateways @4:50 when there was 0 need to, as you were actually spending your money fine - Come on man, building 10 pylons at once? You are making me cry. I understand getting frustrated when supply blocked but even then don't build any more than 4 at once (3 is already pushing it, though). -Hotkey you HT and Sentries (or any spellcaster) to different numbers such as 2 or 3, even if you keep them in 1 also. This is so you can cast everyone's spells w/out needing to tab. Exhibit 1: you didn't use any sentry spells in the final battle. All in all though, you looked pretty good for a bronze player. Just learn the 1 gate FE build and execute it properly and you will shoot up into the higher leagues in no time flat. | ||
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BlueOrange
Finland34 Posts
Anyway, Geovu. The gas steal was just something I did, it's not a part of my plan or anything, I just thought I'd do that in that game. Though I've done it a couple of times in other games aswell. I only wall in because I'm used to it. I know wall in against terran isn't as useful but I've just gotten used to it so it's hard to let go. I didn't make units until that late because I had no reason to. I had a probe in front of his base all the time so I knew when he'd attack, and when he did, as you probably could see I defended it easily. Yeah, my forge was completed 30 seconds game time before I used it. Shocking.  My idea is to build extra gates to burst out units fast and reinforce instantly, and I'm sticking to it until it doesn't work anymore. When it doesn't, I'll try to modify the plan so it works, if it still doesn't, then maybe I'll switch the build. I know I should use Guardian Shield, and I most of the time do use it, but sometimes I forget about it. Also, the force fields...Before that game I hadn't really even used them that much because I've never really had any need to, so I haven't practiced them much. I know I would need to use them better and I'm planning on improving my skills with them. Yeah I'm bad with hotkeys, I'll be working on that as well. 10 Pylons at once was only because I had the extra income, I had the extra minerals stockpiled so I just thought "Ah what the hell" and put down all the pylons. I usually I didn't use sentries in the final battle because I didn't really see a reason to. Yeah I could have saved a couple of zealots but I had so much money and so many gateways I could just instant reproduce the lost units. But yeah, I've been thinking of having 1,2,3 for units, where 1 has everything and 2 and 3 has X, such as sentries and templar. But as I said before I'm bad with hotkeys. Yeah, well, I guess I'll just stop even bothering to come here and read all these posts. FFS I've tried 1gate expand, I've tireed 3 gate expand goddamn I've tried 4gate and I just can't enjoy them and I've said it over and over again.. | ||
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
do you see the problem with everything you just said? Your mechanics are bad as well as your basic understanding of macro/strategy. These totally throw off your build. you will pretty much always loose to anyone with even decent macro, and they wont even have to have a strategy other then build some units faster and more efficient then you and attack. Your basically coming here and saying "here is a build I want to make work ... but don't comment on my poor mechanics or poor understanding of the game." they go hand and hand, and without it you'll probably never even get out of bronze. A good build is an efficient way to execute a specific strategy or deal with other strategies. 10 gateways isn't efficient... let's assume you and another player both had good macro. You do your build and he does a normal macro efficient build. You'll both have the same number of probes and be gathering minerals at the same rate.... but you'll have a smaller army for most of early and mid game. ASSUMING he doesnt attack and kill you before that, lets say you catch up to his supply. Well he'll still be able to reinforce just as fast as you because you wont have enough money ever to support 10 gates if you have been macroing properly and he will match your reinforcements and get his expos/tech sooner because he doesn't have wasted income like you do. not trying to be mean, just explaining  edit: to make your build decent, you would want a fast expo and some way to make it reasonably safe.....then mass and maybe go for an all in timing attack with upgrades finishing as you attack and cutting probes at a certain point. THEN reinforce for the kill. If you EVER reach 200/200 off of two bases you are doing it wrong:o edit 2: and even then your build would have many problems but I know you just want to have fun. of course a player who scouts/macros/ and gets map control will still beat you every time because he will have a better unit composition, better positioning, which will allow him to either beat your army straight up, or out macro you with more bases. You can have fun but you can't get mad when people point out your fundamental flaws and at the same time want to make your build better. They go hand in hand. | ||
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