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On June 09 2011 01:33 GigaFlop wrote:
I dont like people who do this. One time, i was stuck on one base as terran vs a zerg, who had lots of roaches and infestors. I eventualy doom dropped him, killing his entire main. All he had were extractors. after a while: 'is not being revealed anymore!' game lasted an hour, and i had to float my buildings off to the corners just to get some revenge. You seem to be trolling for no good reason, whereas i see my trolling as a bit of revenge.
Am I the only one that doesn't understand this post? Like, each individual clause makes sense, but put together, the picture doesn't seem to add up.
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I don't feel you bro, sorry. I understand you're new to the community, but taking a part in it involves accepting its ways even though you don't find them necessary or right as an outsider. I suggest you attach an apology to the text and stop posting these or close the blog. One thing is not being a good sport, another is bragging about it. Not GGing is considered a bad sportsmanship here, fake GGing is unacceptable. Not many people here if any will back you up on this one.
Same goes to Ravencruiser.
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On June 09 2011 04:06 Emporio wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 01:33 GigaFlop wrote:
I dont like people who do this. One time, i was stuck on one base as terran vs a zerg, who had lots of roaches and infestors. I eventualy doom dropped him, killing his entire main. All he had were extractors. after a while: 'is not being revealed anymore!' game lasted an hour, and i had to float my buildings off to the corners just to get some revenge. You seem to be trolling for no good reason, whereas i see my trolling as a bit of revenge. Am I the only one that doesn't understand this post? Like, each individual clause makes sense, but put together, the picture doesn't seem to add up.
To clarify,
+ Show Spoiler +
1. Neither of us expand
2. I kill his main. All he has left are roaches, infestors, two extractors and some drones(ran away).
3. We both expand, I am wondering why he hasnt left yet (25:00~30:00)
4. We sit around, he expands again, and I kill the expo.
5. I nuke his first expo to death, he re-expands there.
6. He overruns me, I lift off
His reasoning was: "i wasnt done yet", therefore I felt like I should use the same attitude(because of anger/revenge/I wanted something to eat). I floated my buildings to the corners, and got something to eat. If the player had overrun me in the first half hour of the game, however, I would have just left.
No, this is not what I normally do, ever. If I'm mad at someone/myself when I know I'm done(rushes, something I feel is imba), I just leave the game.
Wouldn't you have left the game if the only buildings you had were two assimilators/extractors/refineries? Regardless of your units?
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On June 09 2011 03:06 mikeymoo wrote:
"+1 interwebs"? I now understand why you think this is fine. This isn't "mindgaming", it's just a lack of respect for the opponent. If you were to surrender during war and then strike when the opposition's back was turned, there would be worldwide outcry. It's obviously unfair and has no place as a "mechanism" to win.
Look, I have respect for you since you've somehow earned you mod position and you have the majority on your side on this particular issue, but your naivety astounds me.
Do you know what total war is? I would assume so but from your post it's uncertain that you do. When the Soviets finally rolled into Berlin and Germany surrendered unconditionally, what did the Soviets do? Did they all of a sudden decide to retreat and go "oh look, we just won the war. We'll just take your surrender contract/agreement papers and be on our way now", allowing Germany to mobilize again and perhaps launch a successful counter attack? No, they went in, occupied the shit out of the country, and made damn sure the Germans couldn't feign a surrender and make a comeback. "World outcry"? Come on, really? Do you honestly think the world wasn't outcried to shit already and wanted to destroy Germany as much as one could want, with all the civilian air raids and previous backstabs? It's a part of war, so at the least your analogy is a terrible one.
Do you see where I'm going? It's the same with Starcraft; it's total war. Please tell me why, a gamer, playing an online game for fun, matched up against me trying to kill my stuff and making me lose points/MMR, deserves respect from me? Your respect argument would apply to progamers; most have respect for them because of their hard work, skills, and dedication, but as for your average stranger gamer playing for fun online, why is respect warranted in any way?
On June 09 2011 03:06 mikeymoo wrote:
Let's say I have a maphack that is undetectable, and by some interpretation of BNet law, is legal to use. I will call this maphack my "technical tactics". I used my set of programming and legal skills to overcome the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player. So I maphack my opponent and beat his ass silly because of my "technical tactics". +1 interwebs for me, right?
Yes exactly. It would be +1 interwebs for you and your programming skills without a single doubt.
If a maphack is undetectable and completely legal to use, then everyone would use it. I really don't see what you're even trying to argue here. Nobody would be "overcoming the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player"; rather everyone would be on equal footing and the game would play out as if everyone visions each other at the start of the game.
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It's not pro, its not good mannered, its not +1 interwebs or whatever the hell that means. Its just poor sportsmanship dude.
To all these armchair sun tzus like ravencruiser, the OP was a dick over the internet, misled someone, and got a win for it. There really isn't a deeper point to be made here, champ.
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On June 09 2011 06:02 Ravencruiser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 03:06 mikeymoo wrote:
"+1 interwebs"? I now understand why you think this is fine. This isn't "mindgaming", it's just a lack of respect for the opponent. If you were to surrender during war and then strike when the opposition's back was turned, there would be worldwide outcry. It's obviously unfair and has no place as a "mechanism" to win.
Look, I have respect for you since you've somehow earned you mod position and you have the majority on your side on this particular issue, but your naivety astounds me. Do you know what total war is? I would assume so but from your post it's uncertain that you do. When the Soviets finally rolled into Berlin and Germany surrendered unconditionally, what did the Soviets do? Did they all of a sudden decide to retreat and go "oh look, we just won the war. We'll just take your surrender contract/agreement papers and be on our way now", allowing Germany to mobilize again and perhaps launch a successful counter attack? No, they went in, occupied the shit out of the country, and made damn sure the Germans couldn't feign a surrender and make a comeback. "World outcry"? Come on, really? Do you honestly think the world wasn't outcried to shit already and wanted to destroy Germany as much as one could want, with all the civilian air raids and previous backstabs? It's a part of war, so at the least your analogy is a terrible one. Do you see where I'm going? It's the same with Starcraft; it's total war. Please tell me why, a gamer, playing an online game for fun, matched up against me trying to kill my stuff and making me lose points/MMR, deserves respect from me? Your respect argument would apply to progamers; most have respect for them because of their hard work, skills, and dedication, but as for your average stranger gamer playing for fun online, why is respect warranted in any way? Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 03:06 mikeymoo wrote:
Let's say I have a maphack that is undetectable, and by some interpretation of BNet law, is legal to use. I will call this maphack my "technical tactics". I used my set of programming and legal skills to overcome the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player. So I maphack my opponent and beat his ass silly because of my "technical tactics". +1 interwebs for me, right?
Yes exactly. It would be +1 interwebs for you and your programming skills without a single doubt. If a maphack is undetectable and completely legal to use, then everyone would use it. I really don't see what you're even trying to argue here. Nobody would be "overcoming the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player"; rather everyone would be on equal footing and the game would play out as if everyone visions each other at the start of the game.
Dude, you don't need to "warrant respect." It's just about being polite to strangers. Are you a douche to random people in real life, too, until they somehow earn your respect? I hope not. Respect should be the default of human interaction in civilized society.
And no, it's not a "total war." It's a video game. We're all playing for fun. If more people are fair, nice, and honest with each other, it's a more fun experience for everyone.
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lol, if anything, trying to do anything to squeeze out a game by taking advantage of social conventions would be the highest point of taking a game too seriously. If you're "playing for fun" then going on lengths to squeeze out points for a ranking simply shouldn't happen. The moment you started equating SC with "total war" you've revealed that you take the game far too seriously. It's people like you that don't allow me to play every game as a friendly game, because every seemingly friendly banter has to be treated with suspicion.
So again, bugger off.
lol how does "you should do everything you can to take advantage in a game, regardless of whether it is unsportmanlike" = "I play the game for fun". Some people are just fucking insane.
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Ravencruiser just drop it and leave. You're starting a flamewar you cannot win here. Keep being a jerk if you can't do better, but don't try to overthrow the fairplay and sportsmanship traditions built throughout the years. What's your point anyway? Will the world be better if we all fake GGs all the time? No. Will there be less players doing it, if we sit down and decide that it's actually okay? No.
If StarCraft is a total war I suppose it's okay to find out where my opponent lives and stab him with a knife irl? Drop the absurd comparison. Also please stop intruding your fantasies of what players would do if A or B upon us. The fact that you're an asshole doesn't mean everyone is.
StarCraft is a game. It's also a sport to a lot of us and we treat it as such. There are traditions in each sport and they're there for a reason. They didn't just come out of nowhere because people considered them cool or "innish". They're there to make the environment and ultimately the gaming experience better for everyone. Nothing pleases me more in a game than proper manner of the opponent ~ and that's including the state of the game itself. If I were to take your approach ad absurdum we wouldn't GG properly, we wouldn't wish the opponent GL HF, we wouldn't greet each other on the street, we wouldn't call an ambulance for a stranger, etc. And why?
Don't be an ass, instead overwhelm your opponent with perfect fairplay, sportsmanship and superior skill. If the opponent is a dick, be nice to him and laugh after the game. There's nothing more funny than a guy saying: "Fuk yor motha u nab" and you replying: "Good luck and have fun to you too, good sir!". Don't be spreading the hate just because you can't win a game fairly. Seriously, don't join the badside. It's cool if you choose a red lightsabre, but BM is just Bad. After all, that's why it's not called Evil, Cool or Revolutionary Manner.
User was warned for this post
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On June 09 2011 06:02 Ravencruiser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 03:06 mikeymoo wrote:
"+1 interwebs"? I now understand why you think this is fine. This isn't "mindgaming", it's just a lack of respect for the opponent. If you were to surrender during war and then strike when the opposition's back was turned, there would be worldwide outcry. It's obviously unfair and has no place as a "mechanism" to win.
Look, I have respect for you since you've somehow earned you mod position and you have the majority on your side on this particular issue, but your naivety astounds me.Do you know what total war is? I would assume so but from your post it's uncertain that you do. When the Soviets finally rolled into Berlin and Germany surrendered unconditionally, what did the Soviets do? Did they all of a sudden decide to retreat and go "oh look, we just won the war. We'll just take your surrender contract/agreement papers and be on our way now", allowing Germany to mobilize again and perhaps launch a successful counter attack? No, they went in, occupied the shit out of the country, and made damn sure the Germans couldn't feign a surrender and make a comeback. "World outcry"? Come on, really? Do you honestly think the world wasn't outcried to shit already and wanted to destroy Germany as much as one could want, with all the civilian air raids and previous backstabs? It's a part of war, so at the least your analogy is a terrible one. Do you see where I'm going? It's the same with Starcraft; it's total war. Please tell me why, a gamer, playing an online game for fun, matched up against me trying to kill my stuff and making me lose points/MMR, deserves respect from me? Your respect argument would apply to progamers; most have respect for them because of their hard work, skills, and dedication, but as for your average stranger gamer playing for fun online, why is respect warranted in any way? Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 03:06 mikeymoo wrote:
Let's say I have a maphack that is undetectable, and by some interpretation of BNet law, is legal to use. I will call this maphack my "technical tactics". I used my set of programming and legal skills to overcome the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player. So I maphack my opponent and beat his ass silly because of my "technical tactics". +1 interwebs for me, right?
Yes exactly. It would be +1 interwebs for you and your programming skills without a single doubt. If a maphack is undetectable and completely legal to use, then everyone would use it. I really don't see what you're even trying to argue here. Nobody would be "overcoming the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player"; rather everyone would be on equal footing and the game would play out as if everyone visions each other at the start of the game.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883
2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
?
Also, your "total war" example doesn't fit with what happened in that game.
Do you know what total war is? I would assume so but from your post it's uncertain that you do. When the Soviets finally rolled into Berlin and Germany surrendered unconditionally, what did the Soviets do? Did they all of a sudden decide to retreat and go "oh look, we just won the war. We'll just take your surrender contract/agreement papers and be on our way now", allowing Germany to mobilize again and perhaps launch a successful counter attack? No, they went in, occupied the shit out of the country, and made damn sure the Germans couldn't feign a surrender and make a comeback. "World outcry"? Come on, really? Do you honestly think the world wasn't outcried to shit already and wanted to destroy Germany as much as one could want, with all the civilian air raids and previous backstabs? It's a part of war, so at the least your analogy is a terrible one.
So Soviets -> Germany, and Germany "GG's", so Soviets go and destroy the Germans anyways. then you go into some random bullshit about the world wanting to destroy the Germans which isn't even relevant to "gg". And how does this fit into how the OP said?
Essentially what the _OP_ said would be that
Soviets -> Germany, and germany GG's, and then Germans go kill the soviets
Also you apparently DON'T KNOW what "Total War" means.
Main Entry: total war
Part of Speech: n
Definition: a war in which every available weapon is used and the nation's full financial resources are devoted
"Surrendering, but not really and hitting their back" is not total war.
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On June 09 2011 06:02 Ravencruiser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 03:06 mikeymoo wrote:
"+1 interwebs"? I now understand why you think this is fine. This isn't "mindgaming", it's just a lack of respect for the opponent. If you were to surrender during war and then strike when the opposition's back was turned, there would be worldwide outcry. It's obviously unfair and has no place as a "mechanism" to win.
Look, I have respect for you since you've somehow earned you mod position and you have the majority on your side on this particular issue, but your naivety astounds me. Do you know what total war is? I would assume so but from your post it's uncertain that you do. When the Soviets finally rolled into Berlin and Germany surrendered unconditionally, what did the Soviets do? Did they all of a sudden decide to retreat and go "oh look, we just won the war. We'll just take your surrender contract/agreement papers and be on our way now", allowing Germany to mobilize again and perhaps launch a successful counter attack? No, they went in, occupied the shit out of the country, and made damn sure the Germans couldn't feign a surrender and make a comeback. "World outcry"? Come on, really? Do you honestly think the world wasn't outcried to shit already and wanted to destroy Germany as much as one could want, with all the civilian air raids and previous backstabs? It's a part of war, so at the least your analogy is a terrible one. Do you see where I'm going? It's the same with Starcraft; it's total war. Please tell me why, a gamer, playing an online game for fun, matched up against me trying to kill my stuff and making me lose points/MMR, deserves respect from me? Your respect argument would apply to progamers; most have respect for them because of their hard work, skills, and dedication, but as for your average stranger gamer playing for fun online, why is respect warranted in any way? Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 03:06 mikeymoo wrote:
Let's say I have a maphack that is undetectable, and by some interpretation of BNet law, is legal to use. I will call this maphack my "technical tactics". I used my set of programming and legal skills to overcome the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player. So I maphack my opponent and beat his ass silly because of my "technical tactics". +1 interwebs for me, right?
Yes exactly. It would be +1 interwebs for you and your programming skills without a single doubt. If a maphack is undetectable and completely legal to use, then everyone would use it. I really don't see what you're even trying to argue here. Nobody would be "overcoming the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player"; rather everyone would be on equal footing and the game would play out as if everyone visions each other at the start of the game.
Congrats, you can't tell real world from video games, fail comparison of WW2 to SC2. You can't compare the two because of something called real life where there are real consequences for things and people usually weigh in the Pros and Cons of their actions.
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On June 09 2011 06:10 See.Blue wrote:
It's not pro, its not good mannered, its not +1 interwebs or whatever the hell that means. Its just poor sportsmanship dude.
To all these armchair sun tzus like ravencruiser, the OP was a dick over the internet, misled someone, and got a win for it. There really isn't a deeper point to be made here, champ.
pretty much. I never leave a game right away when the opponent gg's if he's bming me during the game, it's saved me from shit like this two or three times.
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What I don't understand is why you brag about being an asshole?
If you give your best in a game, and decide you have lost, what do you gain from deceiving your opponent with a cheap trick like that? An empty victory and a false sense of accomplishment. You also lose the opportunity to find a potential practice partner. If he legitimately beat you, you may want to learn from him.
I'm sorry but this post has no respect for the effort of your opponent.Even if what you did was allowed doesn't make it right.
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Osaka27147 Posts
On June 09 2011 06:28 koreasilver wrote:
lol, if anything, trying to do anything to squeeze out a game by taking advantage of social conventions would be the highest point of taking a game too seriously. If you're "playing for fun" then going on lengths to squeeze out points for a ranking simply shouldn't happen. The moment you started equating SC with "total war" you've revealed that you take the game far too seriously. It's people like you that don't allow me to play every game as a friendly game, because every seemingly friendly banter has to be treated with suspicion.
So again, bugger off.
lol how does "you should do everything you can to take advantage in a game, regardless of whether it is unsportmanlike" = "I play the game for fun". Some people are just fucking insane.
Couldn't have said it better myself. If the game is so important for you to act like a huge douche bag, its time to re-evaluate.
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Your opponent didn't trash talk you when you did it? Props to that guy.
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On June 09 2011 06:02 Ravencruiser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 03:06 mikeymoo wrote:
"+1 interwebs"? I now understand why you think this is fine. This isn't "mindgaming", it's just a lack of respect for the opponent. If you were to surrender during war and then strike when the opposition's back was turned, there would be worldwide outcry. It's obviously unfair and has no place as a "mechanism" to win.
Look, I have respect for you since you've somehow earned you mod position and you have the majority on your side on this particular issue, but your naivety astounds me. Do you know what total war is? I would assume so but from your post it's uncertain that you do. When the Soviets finally rolled into Berlin and Germany surrendered unconditionally, what did the Soviets do? Did they all of a sudden decide to retreat and go "oh look, we just won the war. We'll just take your surrender contract/agreement papers and be on our way now", allowing Germany to mobilize again and perhaps launch a successful counter attack? No, they went in, occupied the shit out of the country, and made damn sure the Germans couldn't feign a surrender and make a comeback. "World outcry"? Come on, really? Do you honestly think the world wasn't outcried to shit already and wanted to destroy Germany as much as one could want, with all the civilian air raids and previous backstabs? It's a part of war, so at the least your analogy is a terrible one. Do you see where I'm going? It's the same with Starcraft; it's total war. Please tell me why, a gamer, playing an online game for fun, matched up against me trying to kill my stuff and making me lose points/MMR, deserves respect from me? Your respect argument would apply to progamers; most have respect for them because of their hard work, skills, and dedication, but as for your average stranger gamer playing for fun online, why is respect warranted in any way? Show nested quote +On June 09 2011 03:06 mikeymoo wrote:
Let's say I have a maphack that is undetectable, and by some interpretation of BNet law, is legal to use. I will call this maphack my "technical tactics". I used my set of programming and legal skills to overcome the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player. So I maphack my opponent and beat his ass silly because of my "technical tactics". +1 interwebs for me, right?
Yes exactly. It would be +1 interwebs for you and your programming skills without a single doubt. If a maphack is undetectable and completely legal to use, then everyone would use it. I really don't see what you're even trying to argue here. Nobody would be "overcoming the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player"; rather everyone would be on equal footing and the game would play out as if everyone visions each other at the start of the game.
a) Do you feel it would be a good tactic to unplug your opponent's computer? +1 to your unplugging skills? Do you think LANs should become races to unplug the opponent's machine?
b) Do you think everyone would still use a maphack if it was detectable? What if the community would ostracize you if you were caught using it? If not everyone used it, would it then be "overcoming the disadvantage of being a horrible SC player"?
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I don't really see this as being a big deal. Plenty of people have done this to me in the past, but it's never fooled me. Simple rule of thumb: Never assume the game is over until the other player leaves. In a way I find games that rely on mind games to be more interesting than ones on raw talent alone... perhaps that's why I enjoy phantom mode way too much.
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We don't need people like you in our community. I hope you realize how pathetic your actions were.
User was warned for this post
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Wow skemp! I don't think you were expecting this sort of hostile reaction hahaha. "I'll share this awesome thing I did" BAM hammer to the face from the community. Aww poor guy... I feel for you.
Just like your opponent learned not to let his guard down after a gg, you just learned not to share your cheesy BM with a community full of angry teenagers. We each learn something new everyday <3
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I once fake GG'd (accidentally) because I noticed after a moment I could still actually win... My opponent was sad about it when I destroyed his base after, so I left the game for him, lol.
Never fake GG
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EPT
