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Games 4, 5: PvP [Win] and PvZ [Loss]

Blogs > hpaul
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hpaul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Finland32 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-01 21:57:42
June 01 2011 20:23 GMT
#1
Today, I'll have only one blog post for the two games today. Make sure to scroll down to read the second game.

[image loading]

I'm Wolfie and I'm trying to get over my ladder fright. So here's one of the games I played, for you guys. Read the first blog post for info on what I'm doing here.

I'm a silver protoss on EU: Wolfie.756.


Replay
VOD on Blip


What Happened? [Win]

In PvPs, I try to do a 2-gate robo, unless my opponent seems to 4-gate. This game, I noticed that while he had a lot of chrono boost left on his Nexus (actually, he was 100% energy), he had taken both his gases by 4 minutes. I decided that this won't be an effective 4-gate, so I went with the robo. When I saw his cyber core at 5 minutes, I was certain that no 4-gate was coming, but I was wondering about the double gas. So I was on my toes and started to scout around for proxy gates or stargates.

As I didn't see anything else than four zealots and some structures warping in at his base, I decided to move in with 8 stalkers and a zealot with the help of a suitably placed offensive warp-in pylon. I was greeted with a cannon and the zealots and two stargates, just about finishing two void rays. Not too surprisingly, I won the game, which was very similar to the one-zealot-kill game I had previously.

What Were My Greatest and Worst Things In the Game?

I'm pretty proud of my adequately constant probe production, and actually didn't see any mistakes I feel worth mentioning right now.

What Could've Made Things Go The Other Way?

This game reminds me very much of game 2. He also went forge-last. Should he have built the forge first, with a bunch of cannons, I probably wouldn't have had the guts to attack into that.


[image loading]


Replay
VOD on Blip


What Happened? [Loss]

I got my first loss! Having gotten a lot of good feedback from my previous games, they didn't help me much in this map. I really didn't want to forge fast-expand, because the un-rocked natural was so wide open. I didn't find the time to break down the back rocks either, since I felt I needed to have my units at the front door as much as possible.

This time around, I made sure that my first force pushing out won't get trapped by lings. So I stayed in my base, and he pushed me first with a bunch of roaches. He decided to sacrifice his roaches to snipe my expansion, which put me economically behind a bit, but he had taken a huge hit on his unit count, which could've been drones. Afterwards, I took a cautious push, where I got to snipe some free units. I decided to play it safe, and never over-extend myself, taking the odd creep tumor where I could, while camping at the xel naga.

We continued trade equally, which is awful for me. We had similar economies, but the zerg's ability to vastly outproduce a protoss on practically one base the whole time ended up in an endless stream of roaches, which I just couldn't cope with.

What Were My Greatest and Worst Things In the Game?

I liked that I was able to keep myself from overextending, and remembered to be very careful on creep. What ended up killing me was probably the fact that I was underusing my warpgates. I rarely had all of them used up, and when I did have them, I forgot to use them again, even though I often had the money to use them. I also got supply blocked a few times, that made my army even smaller.

What Could've Made Things Go The Other Way?

Disregarding the fact that my macro was poor, I don't feel that there was one majorly decisive moment in the game. I might've been able to save my colossus at 16minute push, but that's purely theoretical, and doesn't really make up for the past macro failures. The game was even, and in the end, I deserved the loss. GG.

I'm awesome. But you're awesomer.
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
June 01 2011 20:48 GMT
#2
Comments on loss:

You have so few probes. You barely have enough for full saturation on 1 base. Make more probes!

-No observers made at idle robo facility. Could have seen attack coming.
-Minor supply blocks.
-You make too many zealots for my taste.
-Apart from observers, could also have made immortals out of that robo.
-1 colossus is a poor timing. You might have won if you had waited for that second colossus and slightly better force fields.
-Final battle: Why did you warp in more sentries when you didn't use the ones you had? Idle colossi chilling in your base. Set rally points. Also, hotkey robo. Lost colossi for free.

These are mostly minor points though. The major points are make probes, don't get supply blocked and constantly produce out of all buildings.

I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
hpaul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Finland32 Posts
June 01 2011 21:24 GMT
#3
The robo critique I accept wholeheartedly. I make a robo "because it's what I'm supposed to do", but then I make too little use of it. The zealots were there in case of a huge surge of lings. Immortals I could've made, sure. But my macro was awful anyways, I could've done a lot of things. But your point remains valid: i underuse immortals in general. The sentry warp-in was due to two things: mainly, I had too much gas and too few minerals at that time. So i preferred three units to fewer. And, iirc, the existing sentries were out of mana, so no force fields from them.

The major points are all good, sir. I'm trying to figure a way to work on them.
I'm awesome. But you're awesomer.
hpaul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Finland32 Posts
June 01 2011 21:34 GMT
#4
I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to argue or defend any critique I receive. I'm trying to reply with what I thought at the time, to show my thought process. This makes the opportunity for other people to chime in, and point where my logic breaks down.

There's nobody that appreciates more your input than I do. Thanks guys, you're all lovely.
I'm awesome. But you're awesomer.
Valkola
Profile Joined April 2010
Finland128 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-01 21:39:58
June 01 2011 21:35 GMT
#5
Your fellow finnish random user from master league commenting on your loss.

I think u lost the game when that roach all in got your nexus. I think u maybe could have counter all inned him immediatly with chrono boosting gateways and good micro. Things you could have done to defend the all in:

-Macro better, you could have had more units troughout the game. Im sure u know how to improve on that (not get supply blocked, as little idle buildings as possible etc)
-have spotting for incoming attacks. going for the rocks with half of your army without having any kind of knowledge about his army and without any spotting for incoming attacks was really risky. honesty, if u had all of your units and 1 cannon at your natural when the all in came i think u could have held it quite easily.

Hope this helps

EDIT: Actually if u want to add me for some practise heres my name and id: HeJurm.385
Mmm..
hpaul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Finland32 Posts
June 01 2011 21:57 GMT
#6
Thanks Valkola for pointing these things out! When I analyzed the replay, and not finding the one spot that killed me was actually very worrysome: I have some basic things still not understood.

Otherwise, your analysis of my flaws in that game sound very fair: I should put a canary out, in case of attacks I don't spot. There were times when I noted something moving in the minimap, and by the time I had time to react, my guys were already dying. Looking at my minimap is also something I need to become better at.

Your feedback sure helps, thanks man! I added you, and you're free to add me too! That'd be Wolfie.756.
I'm awesome. But you're awesomer.
FluffySquirrel
Profile Joined May 2011
Finland5 Posts
June 02 2011 08:13 GMT
#7
On the loss.

Nice back-and-forward pushing throughout the game. That makes the games enjoyable!

I'd say the first of your two biggest tactical mistakes was to push out with only one colussus. That one colossus cost you 700 minerals and 600 gas to get out; counting bay, lance and the colossus itself. We could take the robo into the count as well but let's say that you needed that for the detection. If you'd want to push at that exact moment, those resources could have been four stalkers and four sentries, which would have most likely done a lot more damage and maybe won the game. Then again, waiting and getting the second and maybe third colossi would have brought the average price price per colossus down a lot and made them viable again. Colossi is strong as hell but only the first one is not worth it.

The second mistake was to not use your "a few minutes ago" finished colossus while losing your main army to the push that wiped your nat the second time. That was a blunder but it might have been enough to defend when you still had the other units as well.

A point about Delta Quadrant: I think it is good to start very early and make a plan about how you are going to break the rocks down and take your third. If the thought process is "I need a third" => "I have to break down those rocks", then your third will be quite delayed. With the rocks down you could have rebuilded your second on a more safer position as well. Just put an extra zealot that you don't need right there and then to hit on the rocks early and the rocks will eventually crumble by the mighty psi blades!
hpaul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Finland32 Posts
June 02 2011 11:47 GMT
#8
I see, you have a good point regarding the Colossus and its build path. I've never thought about that like that... Regarding the third and rocks, you're absolutely right: I felt at a loss with that, and felt very uneasy splitting my army like that.

Very valuable analysis again, Fluffy. Thanks!
I'm awesome. But you're awesomer.
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