• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:10
CEST 14:10
KST 21:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE12Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b8IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly4Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"9ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!42
StarCraft 2
General
Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Terran or Protoss
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Star Con San Diego 2026 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread 2026-27 Football Thread placeholder TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Games, Hormones, and "Dark" …
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10548 users

Games 4, 5: PvP [Win] and PvZ [Loss]

Blogs > hpaul
Post a Reply
hpaul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Finland32 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-01 21:57:42
June 01 2011 20:23 GMT
#1
Today, I'll have only one blog post for the two games today. Make sure to scroll down to read the second game.

[image loading]

I'm Wolfie and I'm trying to get over my ladder fright. So here's one of the games I played, for you guys. Read the first blog post for info on what I'm doing here.

I'm a silver protoss on EU: Wolfie.756.


Replay
VOD on Blip


What Happened? [Win]

In PvPs, I try to do a 2-gate robo, unless my opponent seems to 4-gate. This game, I noticed that while he had a lot of chrono boost left on his Nexus (actually, he was 100% energy), he had taken both his gases by 4 minutes. I decided that this won't be an effective 4-gate, so I went with the robo. When I saw his cyber core at 5 minutes, I was certain that no 4-gate was coming, but I was wondering about the double gas. So I was on my toes and started to scout around for proxy gates or stargates.

As I didn't see anything else than four zealots and some structures warping in at his base, I decided to move in with 8 stalkers and a zealot with the help of a suitably placed offensive warp-in pylon. I was greeted with a cannon and the zealots and two stargates, just about finishing two void rays. Not too surprisingly, I won the game, which was very similar to the one-zealot-kill game I had previously.

What Were My Greatest and Worst Things In the Game?

I'm pretty proud of my adequately constant probe production, and actually didn't see any mistakes I feel worth mentioning right now.

What Could've Made Things Go The Other Way?

This game reminds me very much of game 2. He also went forge-last. Should he have built the forge first, with a bunch of cannons, I probably wouldn't have had the guts to attack into that.


[image loading]


Replay
VOD on Blip


What Happened? [Loss]

I got my first loss! Having gotten a lot of good feedback from my previous games, they didn't help me much in this map. I really didn't want to forge fast-expand, because the un-rocked natural was so wide open. I didn't find the time to break down the back rocks either, since I felt I needed to have my units at the front door as much as possible.

This time around, I made sure that my first force pushing out won't get trapped by lings. So I stayed in my base, and he pushed me first with a bunch of roaches. He decided to sacrifice his roaches to snipe my expansion, which put me economically behind a bit, but he had taken a huge hit on his unit count, which could've been drones. Afterwards, I took a cautious push, where I got to snipe some free units. I decided to play it safe, and never over-extend myself, taking the odd creep tumor where I could, while camping at the xel naga.

We continued trade equally, which is awful for me. We had similar economies, but the zerg's ability to vastly outproduce a protoss on practically one base the whole time ended up in an endless stream of roaches, which I just couldn't cope with.

What Were My Greatest and Worst Things In the Game?

I liked that I was able to keep myself from overextending, and remembered to be very careful on creep. What ended up killing me was probably the fact that I was underusing my warpgates. I rarely had all of them used up, and when I did have them, I forgot to use them again, even though I often had the money to use them. I also got supply blocked a few times, that made my army even smaller.

What Could've Made Things Go The Other Way?

Disregarding the fact that my macro was poor, I don't feel that there was one majorly decisive moment in the game. I might've been able to save my colossus at 16minute push, but that's purely theoretical, and doesn't really make up for the past macro failures. The game was even, and in the end, I deserved the loss. GG.

I'm awesome. But you're awesomer.
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
June 01 2011 20:48 GMT
#2
Comments on loss:

You have so few probes. You barely have enough for full saturation on 1 base. Make more probes!

-No observers made at idle robo facility. Could have seen attack coming.
-Minor supply blocks.
-You make too many zealots for my taste.
-Apart from observers, could also have made immortals out of that robo.
-1 colossus is a poor timing. You might have won if you had waited for that second colossus and slightly better force fields.
-Final battle: Why did you warp in more sentries when you didn't use the ones you had? Idle colossi chilling in your base. Set rally points. Also, hotkey robo. Lost colossi for free.

These are mostly minor points though. The major points are make probes, don't get supply blocked and constantly produce out of all buildings.

I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
hpaul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Finland32 Posts
June 01 2011 21:24 GMT
#3
The robo critique I accept wholeheartedly. I make a robo "because it's what I'm supposed to do", but then I make too little use of it. The zealots were there in case of a huge surge of lings. Immortals I could've made, sure. But my macro was awful anyways, I could've done a lot of things. But your point remains valid: i underuse immortals in general. The sentry warp-in was due to two things: mainly, I had too much gas and too few minerals at that time. So i preferred three units to fewer. And, iirc, the existing sentries were out of mana, so no force fields from them.

The major points are all good, sir. I'm trying to figure a way to work on them.
I'm awesome. But you're awesomer.
hpaul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Finland32 Posts
June 01 2011 21:34 GMT
#4
I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to argue or defend any critique I receive. I'm trying to reply with what I thought at the time, to show my thought process. This makes the opportunity for other people to chime in, and point where my logic breaks down.

There's nobody that appreciates more your input than I do. Thanks guys, you're all lovely.
I'm awesome. But you're awesomer.
Valkola
Profile Joined April 2010
Finland128 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-01 21:39:58
June 01 2011 21:35 GMT
#5
Your fellow finnish random user from master league commenting on your loss.

I think u lost the game when that roach all in got your nexus. I think u maybe could have counter all inned him immediatly with chrono boosting gateways and good micro. Things you could have done to defend the all in:

-Macro better, you could have had more units troughout the game. Im sure u know how to improve on that (not get supply blocked, as little idle buildings as possible etc)
-have spotting for incoming attacks. going for the rocks with half of your army without having any kind of knowledge about his army and without any spotting for incoming attacks was really risky. honesty, if u had all of your units and 1 cannon at your natural when the all in came i think u could have held it quite easily.

Hope this helps

EDIT: Actually if u want to add me for some practise heres my name and id: HeJurm.385
Mmm..
hpaul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Finland32 Posts
June 01 2011 21:57 GMT
#6
Thanks Valkola for pointing these things out! When I analyzed the replay, and not finding the one spot that killed me was actually very worrysome: I have some basic things still not understood.

Otherwise, your analysis of my flaws in that game sound very fair: I should put a canary out, in case of attacks I don't spot. There were times when I noted something moving in the minimap, and by the time I had time to react, my guys were already dying. Looking at my minimap is also something I need to become better at.

Your feedback sure helps, thanks man! I added you, and you're free to add me too! That'd be Wolfie.756.
I'm awesome. But you're awesomer.
FluffySquirrel
Profile Joined May 2011
Finland5 Posts
June 02 2011 08:13 GMT
#7
On the loss.

Nice back-and-forward pushing throughout the game. That makes the games enjoyable!

I'd say the first of your two biggest tactical mistakes was to push out with only one colussus. That one colossus cost you 700 minerals and 600 gas to get out; counting bay, lance and the colossus itself. We could take the robo into the count as well but let's say that you needed that for the detection. If you'd want to push at that exact moment, those resources could have been four stalkers and four sentries, which would have most likely done a lot more damage and maybe won the game. Then again, waiting and getting the second and maybe third colossi would have brought the average price price per colossus down a lot and made them viable again. Colossi is strong as hell but only the first one is not worth it.

The second mistake was to not use your "a few minutes ago" finished colossus while losing your main army to the push that wiped your nat the second time. That was a blunder but it might have been enough to defend when you still had the other units as well.

A point about Delta Quadrant: I think it is good to start very early and make a plan about how you are going to break the rocks down and take your third. If the thought process is "I need a third" => "I have to break down those rocks", then your third will be quite delayed. With the rocks down you could have rebuilded your second on a more safer position as well. Just put an extra zealot that you don't need right there and then to hit on the rocks early and the rocks will eventually crumble by the mighty psi blades!
hpaul
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Finland32 Posts
June 02 2011 11:47 GMT
#8
I see, you have a good point regarding the Colossus and its build path. I've never thought about that like that... Regarding the third and rocks, you're absolutely right: I felt at a loss with that, and felt very uneasy splitting my army like that.

Very valuable analysis again, Fluffy. Thanks!
I'm awesome. But you're awesomer.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
CrankTV Team League
11:00
Crank Gathers S4: Playoffs
LiquipediaDiscussion
KCM Race Survival
10:00
2026 S3 Week 4
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 1149
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko328
BRAT_OK 76
mouzStarbuck 74
ProTech11
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 61482
Calm 9907
Shuttle 603
Mini 445
EffOrt 314
BeSt 266
Soma 229
Soulkey 198
Zeus 173
Leta 166
[ Show more ]
ZerO 158
Snow 141
Last 123
Hyun 111
Dewaltoss 108
Light 105
Killer 86
Rush 69
Mind 66
ggaemo 64
JYJ 50
scan(afreeca) 47
ToSsGirL 38
Sharp 37
Sea.KH 37
sorry 34
Shine 31
Bale 31
Sexy 30
JulyZerg 22
Icarus 22
NaDa 22
HiyA 20
hero 18
Noble 13
Terrorterran 12
IntoTheRainbow 7
Mong 1
Dota 2
Gorgc5313
Dendi653
Counter-Strike
zeus240
markeloff120
edward72
Other Games
singsing1870
FrodaN887
B2W.Neo742
crisheroes205
Sick177
Liquid`LucifroN120
DeMusliM96
hiko65
BananaSlamJamma41
SpeCial17
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2882
• WagamamaTV408
League of Legends
• Jankos1285
Upcoming Events
OSC
50m
Patches Events
4h 50m
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs TBD
OSC
5h 20m
Replay Cast
11h 50m
Escore
21h 50m
CrankTV Team League
22h 50m
OSC
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 15h
RSL Revival
1d 20h
ByuN vs SHIN
Solar vs Lambo
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 23h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-29

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
Escore Tournament S3: W8
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.