Seriously. I mean, it's expected that a 10+ year old game loses popularity, but it sucks that iCCup has dwindled in quality.
1. The skill level of foreigners decreased tremendously.
Remember when D = Diamond, or so people said earlier when SC2 came out? Apparently all the decent BW players left for SC2 and D is now full of people who have no idea how BOs, micro, macro, unit composition works. I don't competitively ladder, and I just want to play some good casual games. I remember 3-4 seasons back, D/D+ would provide fun, varied challenges. So far I've only encountered lame attempts to cannon rush, 2gate. If games go on, they never expand outside of their natural. Most don't understand when they have lost, like when they are down by 2+ bases. I been rolling through D/D+ yet it gives me no desire/motivation to reach higher rankings. Games become even more scarce at higher levels and the C crowd offer way too big of a gap in terms of skills.
2. Koreans are jerks.
You essentially have two options when you play koreans. - Get streamrolled, by their superior skills. - Win, but then get drophacked and bmed. Every korean I have beaten has disconnected on me, usually with some insults. Apparently it hurts their pride when they lose to a foreigner? Most of the games I managed to win against Koreans usually involve nonstandard builds they try to use, but fail (Played a C- Korean who went 2gate then rushed to scouts...) It seems like they are only playing low level foreigners like me to dominate and humiliate, so when we seldom win, they immediately disc hack and bm.
I can't be the only one feeling this way. Anyone want to give their input? Also is there another, perhaps better community of BW games? I've vaguely heard about Garena, but know nothing of it.
well, apparently you haven't been playing the same people i have xD i still face decently competitive D player on iccup. most of the ones i play know the right unit combo and BOs, just cant macro that well for the ones i beat, or macro like crazy for the ones i lose to.
I haven't seen anything non-standard or weird. I haven't experienced any cannon rushes or things like that. In fact I don't really see cheese much at all.
The quality has been about the same for me as it always has been (this is from c- high; got to c- with two accounts this season).
The koreans are a bit steamrolling but it's always been like that (1/2 the time they are really B- or so playing me at D+, and half the time they are c-/cish and I can have a good game. Sometimes win, sometimes lose).
Harder to get games. Especially if you are c or so there really is nothing there. But iccup is the same as it always has been for me: 70000000000 protoss players all trying to dt rush me (terran).
edit- I will say there aren't enough koreans at non-korean times on anymore. Funny thing is that I'm playing bio tvz now instead of always meching like I used to, and I only am able to beat koreans because they play the game right lol. They'll try to morph sunkens at the last second, etc, and I can win sometimes. Foreigners will just build like 3 sunkens and eventually get lurkers, and my crappy control I can't for the life of me use marine medic against like 10 lurkers. And when swarm gets out I die.
Are you kidding me? The skill level of foreigners is way higher now. In my 50 or so games this season I have not gotten bm'd a single time and cheesed <5 times, though I still get the occasional 2gate. I'm pretty sure all the people who didn't go to starcraft 2 were at least decent players. Maybe you're playing too many D- players or something? As for Koreans, they are generally pretty manner. I have never have a Korean disc on me in my life.
All in all gaming on iccup has improved significantly since sc2, though of course getting games is harder now.
I just hate the huge skill discrepancy. Like one game I'll dominate, and the next, I'll get owned pretty hard. Is sc2 any good for giving you really close games?
For a while I thought the D level player had gotten worse, but now I'm thinking that maybe I just got better. The level of play just jumped quickly right after starcraft 2 (way more than it does from season to season) got released so maybe you shouldn't compare skill level to then. It was so bad I had to stop laddering for a while just to feed my own pride.
Most of the time I'm on the cheesing side (2 gate or 2 gate no attack expo if I scout 2 gate probably won't work), but I find that most D players don't cheese me
Iccup is pretty awesome, actually. Either you've had really bad luck or you're making mountains out of molehills because most people on Iccup still enjoy playing standard games and are just trying to get better. Also, the Koreans are usually very nice and friendly. Some of them probably just come to beat up on foreigners, but I don't see how that's a problem and many will try to strike up a conversation in English and even give you some advice if you ask. If you actually want to enjoy Iccup, just keep playing. It should get better.
I thought it was well established that iccup is a dump, I'm glad for the services they provided all these years and such, but fish is just flat out better, sure it sucks that you can't really talk with anyone unless you're korean yourself, but I don't play BW much nowadays anyway, so I just play a few games for fun, and iccup takes ages to get games, so I just go to fish.
It does suck that iccup has decreased in popularity. It's really hard to get games the higher up you go. That being said, D never = diamond. I know people want to try to equate skills from BW over to SC2, but I have friends who were C- and are now like 800 masters - still not good IMO, but to each their own.
All decent BW players left for SC2 is sort of true, but there are still some good players left. D is full of people who have no idea how BO or micro/macro works? I'd disagree. They have those ideas, they're just bad.
I play SC2 full time, still got 17-3 C- on iccup this season, but even still, Zerg at C- can still do 3 hatch into 5 hatch pretty well up to a certain point, they just fall apart if you interrupt their build, or if you do something that deviates, they don't know how to react. Basically, they're doing their build just to do their build. They don't know WHY they're doing it.
I'll repeat that again, because it's a huge, huge thing, even in SC2. People do builds just to do them, they don't know WHY they're doing them.
As for Koreans drop hacking, yeah, that usually happens quite a bit, again, especially in the yellow ranks, because they're bad and they're pissed they lost to a foreigner. When you get to the blue ranks they're usually a bit better about it, at least, from what I've encountered.
I don't like ICCUP because of the maps people use. They all play Fighting Spirit and Python, and even the higher rank players don't use modern build orders.
I've been trying to get onto Fish, but the problem is I keep getting booted from the games because I keep having to download the maps over and over again.....
I'm like a D-/E player. I have an idea of my BO each match, my micro is decent, my macro is horrible. I can only seem to get matches on FS and Python. My record is 0-8 or 9 because of how bad my macro is, and my lack of multitask, 89 apm yay Maybe trying out Fish later on In other words, Hard to find any good new maps on IcCup or people to play.
I have experienced Koreans disc hacking when they lose lol, but they don't seem to do it at C+/B- level, I beat a B rank Korean when I was C and he gg'd out.
I'd like to play on Fish server and such but I get horrific lag on them and everyone kept banning me anyway because I don't speak Korean -_-
It really sucks though that Iccup has so few users these days though, it's often down at like 500 people and never goes above about 1100
On May 23 2011 02:53 X10A wrote: I'm like a D-/E player. I have an idea of my BO each match, my micro is decent, my macro is horrible. I can only seem to get matches on FS and Python. My record is 0-8 or 9 because of how bad my macro is, and my lack of multitask, 89 apm yay Maybe trying out Fish later on In other words, Hard to find any good new maps on IcCup or people to play.
I beat a D+ zerg and i had 91 apm that game, 89 apm isnt the ONLY reason you lose. My max apm in closegames is like 130 with anywhere as low as 85 when im kerbstomping.
I seriously dont get ppl who complain about iccup being short on players and then join up on fishnet?? Don't give up hope on our beloved community iccup. The day iccup dies it's the day when foreingers stop playing this game.
I still think mileage varies, but yeah, I agree there is a more significant portion of the D ranks who don't have a clue what they're doing. I've run into more BM Koreans than in the past, but the majority aren't that bad.
On May 23 2011 10:10 JMave wrote: Wow you sure are lucky. Many of the Ds I have encountered were all C - B smurfs.
I just try to avoid people with scores above 1000, ending in 0 or 5. Scores like 1130 and 1260 mean they're 1-0 and 2-0 respectively on MOTW maps. A score like 1125 means they're 1-0, with a single win coming against a D+ player.
That said, I STILL CAN'T BREAKOUT OF D+ BLAAURURRGHGHGHGHGHGHH.
I beat some C- or C players, but I just can't do it consistently. That, and I don't really ladder that much. Still, I have a replay of me beating ZnF in a TvT :D
On May 23 2011 02:38 synapse wrote: I cant even get a game on ICCup anymore... theres NEVER anyone on T.T
You could always hop on #teamliquidbw (quakenet) and ask if someone wants to play.
Thanks so much for this. I'll hang out there a lot now.
I can never get games in op teamliquid. I'm there all day going "anyone want to play?". It is just an AFK channel in my experience. To be honest, people don't even say hi back to me.
As for my ladder experience, I actually stopped playing BW for sc2 and came back a while ago. The low ranks (D/D+) are really easy. Once I get to ~C though it becomes very difficult to find games. Koreans tend to use whatever build flash/bisu/jaedong used on TV most recently, Peruvians are still married to their dark templars and Chileans continue to make too many zerglings.
In my experience the only thing that changed was the amount of players.
On May 23 2011 01:48 obesechicken13 wrote: I just hate the huge skill discrepancy. Like one game I'll dominate, and the next, I'll get owned pretty hard. Is sc2 any good for giving you really close games?
For a while I thought the D level player had gotten worse, but now I'm thinking that maybe I just got better. The level of play just jumped quickly right after starcraft 2 (way more than it does from season to season) got released so maybe you shouldn't compare skill level to then. It was so bad I had to stop laddering for a while just to feed my own pride.
Most of the time I'm on the cheesing side (2 gate or 2 gate no attack expo if I scout 2 gate probably won't work), but I find that most D players don't cheese me
SC2's matchmaking does tend to give pretty fair games, which is one of the few advantages of battle.net 2.0.
Unfortunately, of course, you can't play a specific matchup or map.
On May 23 2011 09:35 ZeKk wrote: I seriously dont get ppl who complain about iccup being short on players and then join up on fishnet?? Don't give up hope on our beloved community iccup. The day iccup dies it's the day when foreingers stop playing this game.
What else would you do? Wait the whole evening to just get a single game? Sorry, but that's not my idea of entertainment. Even before SC2 it usually took us 10-30 mins to get a game on a decent map. And from what I heard it's much harder to find a game now because there are much fewer players.
Just curious, are all the people who complain about long waiting times unable to host their own games (after port forwarding)? Because when I ladder, I always host games on the new Proleague maps and I get games in under a minute on average. Similarly, when I watch Kiante or ZnF ladder on their streams, they seem to get games pretty easily (though admittedly Kiante does switch to Fish occasionally). I understand that not everyone is able to host games even with port forwarding, and the low player population is a problem, but it doesn't seem to be that bad in my experience.
I created a game on Empire of the Sun when it was motw recently (and fighting spirit wasn't, like 2 weeks ago?). A whole fifteen minutes later no one joined. It may have been an awkward time of day but it is definitely much harder to get games these days.
On May 23 2011 21:58 SnowFantasy wrote: Nope, I can host properly.
I created a game on Empire of the Sun when it was motw recently (and fighting spirit wasn't, like 2 weeks ago?). A whole fifteen minutes later no one joined. It may have been an awkward time of day but it is definitely much harder to get games these days.
Part of it may be the maps. I host pretty much exclusively on Fighting Spirit and I have rarely had to wait more than 5 minutes - on average, someone joins in less than 30 seconds. It may be my time zone (Korean), but that's my experience at any rate.
I have been petty inactive recently, but when I played the other night, people joined within 30 sec or so. I was hosting though, but not on FS/Python etc.
Also, I was under the impression that the skill level has increased since the release of SC2 due to the fact that many bad players switched?
On May 23 2011 23:44 gn0m wrote: I have been petty inactive recently, but when I played the other night, people joined within 30 sec or so. I was hosting though, but not on FS/Python etc.
Also, I was under the impression that the skill level has increased since the release of SC2 due to the fact that many bad players switched?
There is no problem getting games at low levels but once you get up to like C or higher it is pretty ridiculous.
As for the skill level, yeah its true that a lot of the lower level players switched over to sc2 but so did a lot of the good players. Pro/semi-pro or other gosu Koreans though have pretty much left ICCup too. There aren't as many good players as there used to be. :S
On May 23 2011 23:44 gn0m wrote: I have been petty inactive recently, but when I played the other night, people joined within 30 sec or so. I was hosting though, but not on FS/Python etc.
Also, I was under the impression that the skill level has increased since the release of SC2 due to the fact that many bad players switched?
There is no problem getting games at low levels but once you get up to like C or higher it is pretty ridiculous.
As for the skill level, yeah its true that a lot of the lower level players switched over to sc2 but so did a lot of the good players. Pro/semi-pro or other gosu Koreans though have pretty much left ICCup too. There aren't as many good players as there used to be. :S
Ok, not that I will get higher than C- anytime soon, but that still sucks. iCCup really feels like the last place for serious BW among foreigners. But on the other hand, isnt BrainClan and Fish pretty much the same thing as iCCup, besides the language barrier?
Let's all go to fish or brain i guess? Not much choice now. I used to play on bnet still but now the hack database program costs money it's not worth it.
On May 23 2011 23:44 gn0m wrote: I have been petty inactive recently, but when I played the other night, people joined within 30 sec or so. I was hosting though, but not on FS/Python etc.
Also, I was under the impression that the skill level has increased since the release of SC2 due to the fact that many bad players switched?
There is no problem getting games at low levels but once you get up to like C or higher it is pretty ridiculous.
As for the skill level, yeah its true that a lot of the lower level players switched over to sc2 but so did a lot of the good players. Pro/semi-pro or other gosu Koreans though have pretty much left ICCup too. There aren't as many good players as there used to be. :S
Ok, not that I will get higher than C- anytime soon, but that still sucks. iCCup really feels like the last place for serious BW among foreigners. But on the other hand, isnt BrainClan and Fish pretty much the same thing as iCCup, besides the language barrier?
Fish is another Korean ladder server that is very active. Right now there are like 15,000 people logged on fish compared to ICCup's 800 max. You get a much more difficult ladder and your Melee games fill up instantly.
On May 23 2011 21:58 SnowFantasy wrote: Nope, I can host properly.
I created a game on Empire of the Sun when it was motw recently (and fighting spirit wasn't, like 2 weeks ago?). A whole fifteen minutes later no one joined. It may have been an awkward time of day but it is definitely much harder to get games these days.
Part of it may be the maps. I host pretty much exclusively on Fighting Spirit and I have rarely had to wait more than 5 minutes - on average, someone joins in less than 30 seconds. It may be my time zone (Korean), but that's my experience at any rate.
Wrong, D was always a joke, it's no different now. I think D is stronger now actually, as pretty much only the good players are left, so you'll run into them on D more often.
On May 23 2011 23:44 gn0m wrote: I have been petty inactive recently, but when I played the other night, people joined within 30 sec or so. I was hosting though, but not on FS/Python etc.
Also, I was under the impression that the skill level has increased since the release of SC2 due to the fact that many bad players switched?
There is no problem getting games at low levels but once you get up to like C or higher it is pretty ridiculous.
As for the skill level, yeah its true that a lot of the lower level players switched over to sc2 but so did a lot of the good players. Pro/semi-pro or other gosu Koreans though have pretty much left ICCup too. There aren't as many good players as there used to be. :S
Ok, not that I will get higher than C- anytime soon, but that still sucks. iCCup really feels like the last place for serious BW among foreigners. But on the other hand, isnt BrainClan and Fish pretty much the same thing as iCCup, besides the language barrier?
Fish is another Korean ladder server that is very active. Right now there are like 15,000 people logged on fish compared to ICCup's 800 max. You get a much more difficult ladder and your Melee games fill up instantly.
But when you host, do you type in korean or english? Or... how do you go about getting games?
On May 23 2011 23:44 gn0m wrote: I have been petty inactive recently, but when I played the other night, people joined within 30 sec or so. I was hosting though, but not on FS/Python etc.
Also, I was under the impression that the skill level has increased since the release of SC2 due to the fact that many bad players switched?
There is no problem getting games at low levels but once you get up to like C or higher it is pretty ridiculous.
As for the skill level, yeah its true that a lot of the lower level players switched over to sc2 but so did a lot of the good players. Pro/semi-pro or other gosu Koreans though have pretty much left ICCup too. There aren't as many good players as there used to be. :S
Ok, not that I will get higher than C- anytime soon, but that still sucks. iCCup really feels like the last place for serious BW among foreigners. But on the other hand, isnt BrainClan and Fish pretty much the same thing as iCCup, besides the language barrier?
Fish is another Korean ladder server that is very active. Right now there are like 15,000 people logged on fish compared to ICCup's 800 max. You get a much more difficult ladder and your Melee games fill up instantly.
But when you host, do you type in korean or english? Or... how do you go about getting games?
you type in korean. All you really have to know is the map names and the difference between chobo and gosu. Pretty much all games are played on Python/Fighting Spirit so it's pretty easy to join/host melee games even if you don't know korean.
On May 23 2011 21:58 SnowFantasy wrote: Nope, I can host properly.
I created a game on Empire of the Sun when it was motw recently (and fighting spirit wasn't, like 2 weeks ago?). A whole fifteen minutes later no one joined. It may have been an awkward time of day but it is definitely much harder to get games these days.
Part of it may be the maps. I host pretty much exclusively on Fighting Spirit and I have rarely had to wait more than 5 minutes - on average, someone joins in less than 30 seconds. It may be my time zone (Korean), but that's my experience at any rate.
Well, no shit, you're hosting FIGHTING SPIRIT.
Point being that the players are there, and games are to be had, though the situation may not be entirely ideal. As far as I know, Python and FS are the most popular maps on the Korean servers too?
I find games on other maps all the time. Mostly MOTW or FS sure,(i hate python) but MOTW is enough. I had some good games on bloody ridge today without much wait time. sure it was a little slow and i ended up bailing to fish but meh, iccup is still ok.
No sir, ICCup definitely sucks. It takes so much longer to get games. The motw was just changed though so if I want that bonus it will be even more awful.
EPT
