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Just recently, I watched a Lalush game in which he BMed whitera and although he has a reputation in BMing games he loses. He later wins the whole series. I'm just going to say I'm sick of Zerg tears.
Here is a recent list of Accomplishments by Zergs
Sen 3rd place HDWT (beating noteable protosses such as socke, whitera, and tyler (nony))
IdrA 1st place IPL (beating a good amount of terrans, kiwkaki twice)
Nestea 1st plcae GSL(beat anypro, sc, and inca, though inca was a salughter)
NASL standings well doing zergs:
Moon 4-1
Sheth 4-1
Morrow 3-1
July 4-1
Ret 4-1
Idra 4-1
Sen 4-1
That's not even going through everything.
Another thing to note is that Zerg always is the least played race. Every tournament has zergs as the most under- represented race played. Even in B-net statistics it's the least played race. If there are less tournament wins by Zergs a highly plausible factor for why they don't win as much tournaments is that there isn't just as much players. However Zergs still win
Zerg situation WAS looking bleak early april and march, where we saw Zerg finish poorly in Dallas, Stockholm invitational, early zerg outs in the TSL, and more. However if you look at these results you can say they are doing well. Obviously there was a turn around. Was it the patch? Doubtful, because it seems like zerg are just finding clever timing attacks against the other races. Timing attacks were good against zergs and finally timing attacks are being utilized by zerg. My favorite is the one LosirA popularized that I recently saw Darkforce use successfully against white-ra
Keep pushing on zergs@!
 
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The infestor buff really helped zergs out a lot, that and the metagame seems to favor them a bit more (at least vs Protoss) probably has a lot to do with it.
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On May 18 2011 16:03 Whiplash wrote:
The infestor buff really helped zergs out a lot, that and the metagame seems to favor them a bit more (at least vs Protoss) probably has a lot to do with it.
Took them a while to start using those buffed infestors. Now they just need to clean up their infestor micro so it's not 1 fungal per infestor.
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On May 18 2011 16:16 garlicface wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 16:03 Whiplash wrote:
The infestor buff really helped zergs out a lot, that and the metagame seems to favor them a bit more (at least vs Protoss) probably has a lot to do with it. Took them a while to start using those buffed infestors. Now they just need to clean up their infestor micro so it's not 1 fungal per infestor.
Yeah this is so frustrating to watch, they throw 1-2 fungal and then they just ignore it and let it die, so they have to keep wasting gas on producing them.
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Infestor changes were upped in march, It probably took them a while.
And to be honest the games I see zerg doing really well aren't just cause of infestors.
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I agree that Zergs are doing well and people should stop listening to IdrA talking about balance. I'd even go so far as to say that terrans are quite weak against Zergs now (probably why everyone stopped playing them and my last 20 matches were ZvZ and ZvP only), they usually have one push (or two if they try to bunker rush), if that fails, it's almost a gg for them.
However, there are some situations in every matchup that are quite annoying to deal with and would make the game better if they were changed (not saying "made easier", just "made different"), the colossi being one of them, 15 minute ZvZ ling/bling micro-battles another.
So in summary:
The game seems to be quite well balanced at the moment, there are some rough edges, but Blizzard has done a great job so far.
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Yeah I don't think it's JUST infestors, I think it's just that zerg is pretty complicated due to larvae inject allowing for HUGE droning periods and HUGE production periods. The more zerg deals with the same protoss/terran strats the more they can learn to take advantage of these huge periods and imo that's what is allowing zerg to better lately. It's not because of units imo, it's that zergs are just getting smarter.
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On May 18 2011 16:21 Potatisodlaren wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 16:16 garlicface wrote:On May 18 2011 16:03 Whiplash wrote:
The infestor buff really helped zergs out a lot, that and the metagame seems to favor them a bit more (at least vs Protoss) probably has a lot to do with it. Took them a while to start using those buffed infestors. Now they just need to clean up their infestor micro so it's not 1 fungal per infestor. Yeah this is so frustrating to watch, they throw 1-2 fungal and then they just ignore it and let it die, so they have to keep wasting gas on producing them.
As zerg after a certain point in the fight you basically leave your units be in order to be able to macro up another army. It's pretty hard to do both at once, but with time it will start being done. It's also frustrating to see protoss and terran not use half of what they have to work with, but that too will change with time.
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Well, lately Zergs have figured out
a) infestors are really, really good (especially with the latest patch buff) vs T and P
b) that upgraded 3/3 lings/banelings are really good,
c) infestor/ling/broodlord vs Terran
d) that despite what they originally thought, Zergs can be aggressive...not just with baneling busts
Personally, I think the infestor buff pretty much changed everything, but also that people finally realized you can be aggressive with Z unit production and then do massive damage while droning during or afterwards and be successful (especially with ling+roaches).
also, you have people like losira and spanishiwa that popularized some of the new ideas for match-ups.
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Infestors are a huge part. Honestly I think down the line theres going to be a more significant nerf for them. Unless protoss and terran learn to keep their stuff more spread out like how marines and medics were in BW. The area of effect for infestors is actually quite small, I bet you we'll see MK marine spread against infestors soon and it'll really make infestors a lot less powerful. It's just we haven't seen him against zerg in a while.
Zerg agression is my favorite part, thats what I kind of tried to highlight. IdrA always claimed Zerg was the reaction race, well that's if you let yourself D up and just try to macro and only make units when u see agression. However what we see now is some nice agression from losira, and even Nestea's fast lair -> overlord creep -> spine crawler against expands, and it can be very successful.
It's just that my thing is, IdrA in april SoTGs would argue with day9 that everything has been tried and that zerg is hopeless against zerg, a sentiment supported by many other zergs. However very little things have changed (since april) and that it's just some zerg builds becoming more popularized.
There's probably more timing attacks similar to Losira's push to be utilized. I personally would like to see drops with queens loaded in them. Queens are a pretty good unit at max energy, especially considering they are the same food as a roach/hydra and give utility. Besides spanishiwa using nydus to mobilize them I'd like to see queens in overlords to put them around the map to utilize that transfuse. Queens are like gasless medivacs, but most people put them on early defense, creep spread, and larva injects.
Off topic: Queens, 50 energy transfuse for 125 health = roughly 2.5 health per energy (but in blocks of course) Medivacs 3 health per energy.
Queens can also attack. Cmon someone better than me utilize them (other than spanishiwa lol)
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On May 18 2011 15:55 adeezy wrote:
Another thing to note is that Zerg always is the least played race. Every tournament has zergs as the most under- represented race played. Even in B-net statistics it's the least played race.
People keep saying this, and for anything past gold league (the only statistic that matters to be frank) it just isn't true. Terran is the least played race (except in Korea, where Z and T have their populations reversed and I've no idea why).
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On May 18 2011 20:51 Dragar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 15:55 adeezy wrote:
Another thing to note is that Zerg always is the least played race. Every tournament has zergs as the most under- represented race played. Even in B-net statistics it's the least played race.
People keep saying this, and for anything past gold league (the only statistic that matters to be frank) it just isn't true. Terran is the least played race (except in Korea, where Z and T have their populations reversed and I've no idea why).
Well, for Tournaments it is a different picture:
GSTL May 2011:
9 Zerg
11 Protoss
12 Terran
GSL Code S Season 3:
8 Zerg
10 Protoss
14 Terran
GSL Code A Season 3:
7 Zerg
12 Protoss
13 Terran
International:
ESL Daily Motion Cup:
9 Zerg
10 Protoss
13 Terran
Couldn't find that many other leagues with more than 16 players. As for NASL, i think they actually tried to have an even race distribution. IIRC it was 16/16/18 or something like that.
Some exceptions:
All 4 One Gaming Invitational #2
11 Zerg
6 Protoss
15 Terran
EG Masters Cup:
7 Zerg
6 Protoss
11 Terran
So in almost all tournaments, the terrans outnumber the protoss, which in turn usually seem to outnumber the Zerg.
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I think its more as a zerg player that u can lose a game easier then a protoss/terran. Mid/Late game zerg are really fine. Just look at the ladder ratio of top 100 most terran/protoss have way better winratio then the zerg. Think thats why the most zerg whine  is not that they are Underpowered( Thats my feeling about it) And yeah zerg doing well !!
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look again at those names, those are 8 of the top 10-12 best zergs in the world, with moon and ret's form being a bit arguable overall outside their nasl record.
they're all great to exceptional zerg players, tested and tried through many a tournament and hardcore, like really hardcore, practice. couple this with the pretty weak competition in the nasl where the skill divisions are obvious as hell, and this comes off as no surprise.
zerg understanding is getting better and better and the balancing of the game started drifting towards helping zerg, but this is a very contextually limited statistic, overall zergs are still doing almost -granted, visibly not quite- as bad as they were before compared to the results lesser players of the other races are achieving.
besides this, all there is to say is that it's nice to see zergs doing better not because they're better and imba other races qq, but more diversity is better for the game and us watching them pros go at it.
as for lower levels of play, who cares, zerg can even be imba, and there's always gonna be less people playing zerg not because it's weak but because it's difficult and frustrating to learn so as a game is supposed to be a fun investment of time, people will prefer getting to higher levels playing a race that's easier to understand, and then switching races is a pretty difficult thing to do.
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zerg is doing well because players learn how to use this race -_-
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I just don't think all the whine is granted considering how well they do. Also People sure do like giving me low blog ratings lol. Thanks =)
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I don't normally rebump but I just want to add a small discusion on things that have been happening lately!
MLG Dallas: Excellent zerg performance to say the least! Idra's first games mC made protoss look very weak and so did LosirA's performance (game 2 vs mc he just sacrificed way too many mutas). Just to mention people are now saying "protoss doesn't do well" However we have an all 4 protoss semi finals for the gigabyte wars tournament in china so in that sense protoss looks good also.
In the end the game is pretty balanced from what I've seen. I expect them to do something about infestors though lol
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I don't think anyone can say that Zerg is actually weaker at the moment, but it is definately more difficult for Joe Bloggs to get on the ladder and start playing zerg.
Lack of observer/scans means that you have to make assumptions that only experienced players can make (or you're just guessing).
Also because individual zerg units are so weak you need to be macroing and producing at the same time that you are in a big battle trying to micro (quite a skill for a low level player). If you don't do this you are dead. Also the macro process is about twice as complicated for zerg, who have to try and spread creep and inject as well as produce workers and units. Not to mention having to make sure you stay ahead on expansions.
You already said you don't care about average level players balance, but to be honest I don't care about pro level balance.
The potential of Zerg is definately strong, but for lower level players it still presents challenges that P and T don't have to deal with.
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I think metagame change is one reason (aside from the infestor buff) Zergs are doing better in ZvP. If you go back a few months, Protoss was the timing race against Zerg, with the idea that you had to pressure or push at a certain time, or you would be overrun by Zerg macro. Then Protoss realized that Zerg lategames armies kinda sucked horribly compared to theirs, and began shifting to a more turtle based style, which is where we are now. Biggest difference now is Zergs seem to have adapted to this style, and are preparing really greedy builds knowing in advance Protoss is less likely to punish them for it. Of course from there, Zergs are also getting more comfortable being aggressive with the tool's they're given.
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EPT
