A Question for people who are able to speak German

RolleMcKnolle

Germany1054 Posts

April 06 2011 12:14 GMT

I'm sitting right now on a paper I have to write for my philosophy classes. The subject is some stuff from Frege and right now I'm struggling with finding a good description for the colloquial meaning of "meaning". (umgangssprachliche Bedeutung von "Bedeutung")

I'm trying to interpret an excerpt of "Logische Untersuchungen" "Der Gedanke" and having issues with Frege using "Bedeutung" despite him already using it in other books in a special Fregian sense.

I figured Teamliquid would give me some outside views and most importantly some ideas from non-native Germans on how to describe the meaning of it to contrast this with his 'definition'.

Hoping for some answers!
Thanks

GERMasta

Germany212 Posts

April 06 2011 13:06 GMT

I'm not sure how colloquial this is, but here goes my attempt: Meaning is the relation between a word, an object and the concept of the object in question.

So if I think of a chair, say the word 'chair' and point to a chair, I express meaning, which in turn may or may not be understood by my audience.

That also implies that the word 'ndfaskfs' is meaningless, since it has no object and (therefore) no concept of the object that it can refer to.

RolleMcKnolle

Germany1054 Posts

April 06 2011 13:36 GMT

So for u Bedeutung is some kind of reference? Like: "my words are a pointer to the object I want to talk about" (Bedeutung kinda being the pointer) and the people need to have the knowledge about the same pointer?

Because if u use "Bedeutung" in: "Was ist die Bedeutung deiner Worte?" U actually don't ask for an object but more for a sense(Sinn). Same is applied to a chair: if I am saying chair without directly pointing towards one, the Bedeutung of my words is not an object but more of a general concept. Or like "Odysseus built the Trojan Horse", where you are not talking about an object that does actually exist, so you don't actually have a reference for the word, but still there is a Bedeutung(umgangssprachlich).

Maybe I'm not getting this right:"concept of the object in question."

Thanks for ur answer

Velr

Switzerland10661 Posts

April 06 2011 14:01 GMT

Was ist die Bedeutung deiner Worte?" U actually don't ask for an object but more for a sense(Sinn).

My go, in short would be:

Bedeutung = "The sense a "certain thing" makes or has in a specific context"

But i am far from an expert at this

RolleMcKnolle

Germany1054 Posts

April 06 2011 14:08 GMT

On April 06 2011 23:01 Velr wrote:

Show nested quote +

My go, in short would be:

Bedeutung = "The sense a "certain thing" makes or has in a specific context"

But i am far from an expert at this

I like that one. It actually describes quite well how I wld understand it if I wouldn't read frege all the time. thanks

GERMasta

Germany212 Posts

April 06 2011 14:34 GMT

@Rolle: We can leave the object out of it too, if you wish. In that case, Bedeutung for me is the relationship between a word and a mental concept. The concept itself usually refers to (or is based upon) something concrete like an object in the world, but doesn't have to - it can be a universal or an abstraction, of course. I included the object in my last post because it is necessary for two people to be speaking about the same thing in order for meaning to be conveyed. This is especially easy to do if you just point at an object and say the word associated with it, but if we stop pointing and take the object and abstract it instead, meaning can still be conveyed as long as both interlocutors have the same general idea about what the word refers to.

So yeah, I think you understood what I meant (no pun intended), except that Bedeutung is not an object, but a relationship between word and mental concept.

RolleMcKnolle

Germany1054 Posts

April 06 2011 15:04 GMT

well, thanks a lot for explaining

I'm feeling like this might be what I was looking for. It actually describes the role Bedeutung has in most German sentences without being too much like Freges Bedeutung or too exact.

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