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I don't know where else to put this, but I'm fucking pissed. I started rank 100 bronze and busted my ass all the way to rank 1 gold awaiting my promotion...I lose my promotion match to a platinum player and I get demoted to rank 86 silver? What the fuck is this? I've had the game since day 1, and I've grown to love it, but what is the point in playing if you spent 2 months at rank 1 gold and then are demoted 186 ranks?
How can ONE match decide all that when I've been rank 1 gold for months? I was 286 (or so) wins and 240 losses. How is this even possible? This makes me not want to play the game. It's like studying for a hard exam all year and busting your ass and only to take the hardest test of your life and fail.
Not to mention, I was all-in scv slow marauder rushed where I missed one FF and lost the game.
How can this be?
Anyway, I don't understand this. I've put a lot of effort into making my goal of platinum, to only be thwarted of it by one game. Look, I would understand if I was demoted at any point in time over the past two months, but for ONE game to decide my promotion or demotion? How can this be? I mean I droped 186 spots. That's a DRASTIC change after not being promoted or demoted for months.
 
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Calgary25993 Posts
Why don't you read how the ladder ranking system works? If you understand how it works, combined with the fact that promotion / demotion have been frozen for the last week, you can easily see how this would be possible.
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rank doesn't matter, mmr does. i was like rank 30th in diamond when i got promoted to masters
i guess its blizzards fault for making the ladder rankings so arbitrary and nontransparent
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On March 30 2011 06:26 Chill wrote:
Why don't you read how the ladder ranking system works? If you understand how it works, combined with the fact that promotion / demotion have been frozen for the last week, you can easily see how this would be possible.
I've read and read, but how can one still sit at one rank for over 2 months, and then one game decide that?
It makes me not want to play the game if I constantly progress and then I'm thrown down the dumps.
It's not as if I've been playing silver players much lol. I've been playing only gold players with the occasional silver.
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On March 30 2011 06:26 kaisr wrote:
rank doesn't matter, mmr does. i was like rank 30th in diamond when i got promoted to masters
i guess its blizzards fault for making the ladder rankings so arbitrary and nontransparent
It's retarded. It's a false sense of feeling better about yourself. I would have much rather never been promoted directly from rank 1 silver to rank 1 gold and stay there for 2 months, than work my way up and get promoted.
I literally spent 2 months at rank 1 silver, then 2 months at rank gold...and now I'm back to rank 86 silver? I can understand dropping me back a few ranks, but to drop me back nearly 200 "ranks" wtf?
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WEll, you know, your example isn't really accurate  , depending on how you study....
Well, anyways, imo it doesn't really matter what your rank is in SC2, depending on your skill, because if your at bronze, but with like masters skill level, or diamond, but with silver skill level, it doesn't matter, your gonna reach there sometime, demotion/promotion, but you know, just let the whole ranks thing go o_o
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Actually it wasn't just that game, that's not how the ladder system works. It's because your MMR (hidden matchmaking rating) has stabilized at silver level. There's a whole post explaining it:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150367 Read that and posts being linked in it if you're confused.
Sorry for your demotion. To be honest though, you shouldn't be too sad, your visible rank means almost nothing anyway. What matters is how good you actually are and how good the players you beat are, regardless of your/their ranks. Just keep practicing!
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On March 30 2011 06:31 TickTockBoom wrote:WEll, you know, your example isn't really accurate , depending on how you study.... Well, anyways, imo it doesn't really matter what your rank is in SC2, depending on your skill, because if your at bronze, but with like masters skill level, or diamond, but with silver skill level, it doesn't matter, your gonna reach there sometime, demotion/promotion, but you know, just let the whole ranks thing go o_o The thing is, when I was rank 1 silver, I was destroying stuff. Then I was promoted to rank 1 gold. I finally ended up with a 50/50 win/loss ratio and I had thought I found a home. Now I'm going to go back to even WORSE silver and being bored again. I like having a challenge and silver is definitely not a challenge imo.
I just don't understand how I can sit at rank 1 for so long, and then just be dropped that far?
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On March 30 2011 06:32 Snaiil wrote:Actually it wasn't just that game, that's not how the ladder system works. It's because your MMR (hidden matchmaking rating) has stabilized at silver level. There's a whole post explaining it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150367 Read that and posts being linked in it if you're confused. Sorry for your demotion. To be honest though, you shouldn't be too sad, your visible rank means almost nothing anyway. What matters is how good you actually are and how good the players you beat are, regardless of your/their ranks. Just keep practicing!
Sigh this shit is stupid. Done with this game.
Why don't they just make it public? It would help people understand. I'm an incredibly competitive player, and it really pisses me off when I feel lied to. I felt as if I was a gold/platinum player because that was all I was playing wtf.
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Did the ladder reset already happen on your servers? Because this could explain such a large drop. Since all the inactive players are gone, there could actually be large shifts in the leagues. This would mean that you are just on a mutch tougher server now, so don't feel bad.
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Another thing I do not understand is this. If they notice that I'm winning a lot, why do they not match me up to better opponents? I never felt as if I was playing anyone better. Yet in my placement match I played someone that was better than me finally and it demotes me down to scrub ville
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I don't think the ranks really hold much importance other than as an ego boost or deflater.
IMO, the true sign of skill on the ladder is not your rank but the rank and skill of the opponents that you are being matched against. You could be in Silver, but the ladder's weird hidden MMR system could still be matching you against Golds and Plats. As long as you are consistently beating these "higher ranked" players, then you should be fine eventually climbing back into your desired league.
Also, the ladder reset probably weeded out a ton of inactive players, so climbing through the leagues should be more challenging than before.
Anyways, I wouldn't stress over rank and league too much if I were you. At this level, more focus should be placed on basic mechanics and game sense instead of ranks. The goal should not be being at a higher rank but instead being an overall better player. The desired rank will only come once you achieve your desired level of play. IMO, it's better to stress over your ability to maintain "probes and pylons" first before stressing over your rank.
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I've always wondered but what the hell does your rank or league even matter, especially in the lower leagues. It's not a representation of your skill and you shouldn't see it as that. Getting promoted is like the candle on my cake, but I'm pretty satisfied with my cake. What is this cake you ask? Looking back and seeing how much I've improved.
Proud plat player? Proud Sc2 player.
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On March 30 2011 06:43 eviltomahawk wrote:
I don't think the ranks really hold much importance other than as an ego boost or deflater.
IMO, the true sign of skill on the ladder is not your rank but the rank and skill of the opponents that you are being matched against. You could be in Silver, but the ladder's weird hidden MMR system could still be matching you against Golds and Plats. As long as you are consistently beating these "higher ranked" players, then you should be fine eventually climbing back into your desired league.
Also, the ladder reset probably weeded out a ton of inactive players, so climbing through the leagues should be more challenging than before.
Anyways, I wouldn't stress over rank and league too much if I were you. At this level, more focus should be placed on basic mechanics and game sense instead of ranks. The goal should not be being at a higher rank but instead being an overall better player. The desired rank will only come once you achieve your desired level of play. IMO, it's better to stress over your ability to maintain "probes and pylons" first before stressing over your rank.
That's the thing, I was only playing gold and platinum players with the occasional silver thrown in. It's like the system got it backward.
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On March 30 2011 06:43 MichaelEU wrote:
I've always wondered but what the hell does your rank or league even matter, especially in the lower leagues. It's not a representation of your skill and you shouldn't see it as that. Getting promoted is like the candle on my cake, but I'm pretty satisfied with my cake. What is this cake you ask? Looking back and seeing how much I've improved.
Proud plat player? Proud Sc2 player.
It matters to me because i'm competitive. I want to work my way up.
I never played RTS games before. I was an FPS guy that played in cal cevo etc, so being good is something I want to be.
The problem is that I literally started from scratch in this game and I worked my way up to gold rank 1 and to be pushed back that many ranks?
My question is this:
Why didn't the system set me back at any point over the last 2 months if it thought I was meant to be the bottom of silver? Why keep me at rank 1 gold?
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So what new rank did other gold level players get so far? Maybe we can collect more Data to see how the system behaves after a reset.
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I figure that this is just temporary and if you play regularly, you will be promoted back into gold and again reach rank one.
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If you're worrying about gold and platinum ranks then you have a LONG way to go in terms of being competitive. You really should not be bitching about your rank at this point in time. It's totally meaningless. Worry more about your game skill.
The only people competitive at this game are at top of masters. If you're less than that, just keep playing to improve. Don't waste time on TL getting mad over your arbitrary rank drop. Trust that the system works just fine for players that actually play well. Bronze to Diamond is all just a bunch of nonsense.
Anyone worth their salt is going to be at least mid-masters or higher, and at that point it's quite easy to see what level you are at. Lower than that is mostly just people without a good grasp of RTS flailing away at each other without a clue.
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The only issue here is that youre down to silver. YOUre at rank 86 because all the points are so close.
Is it possible that Blizz adjusted the MMR limits on the leagues to balance out numbers?
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Yeah, what stork is saying is true actually, your not gonna see anyone that is diamond winning any huge leagues, only the top masters will. So rank doesn't really matter... until then :D, good luck on your improving.
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If you were really gold/platinum level then you'll crush silver league in no time and be back where you belong. I don't know why you'd be bothered about this unless you thought you wouldn't get out of silver again, in which case that's where you belong and the system is therefore correct. Good luck though.
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You're probably rank 86 because you haven't played en-masse since the ladder reset. When everyone has fewer than 10 games then individual wins and losses mean you jump 20 odd places. I was rank 1 diamond after the reset, now I'm rank 56 diamond without playing a single extra game.
Blizzard just cleaned out the inactive players, by definition the lower leagues are flooded with inactives and so the whole "20% distribution" thing probably got fucked up.
Either way your MMR hasn't changed, hell, enjoy the free wins against the people that changed races for the season.
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Some theorycrafting:
If the ladder reset already happened on the server he's playing on, it most likely filtered out a lot of inactive players.
Also, as stated in the ladder analysis thread, each league is supposed to hold about 20% of the active players in the game with diamond as an exception with 18% because top 2% is masters.
So if the ladder reset, that also means the amount of players being ranked at the moment got reduced drastically, as a lot players have went inactive. Most of these now inactive players are probably in Bronze to Silver. So if most of the players in those leagues now have no rank, that means new players need to fill those leagues, and since most actually good players are still active, the percentages filling up the higher leagues will be higher, meaning the people in the middle of the ladder will now be lower. That's because out of all players who bought StarCraft they're somewhere in the middle, but of all active they're at the bottom.
About your rank. Since it got reset everyone is going to be ranked really close to each other pointwise so it shouldn't be hard to rank up again.
TL;DR: It doesn't have to do anything with your skill, since the reset filtered out a lot of inactive players in Bronze/Silver, some Gold/Platinum players will have to fill up that space so that there can be 20% players in each league.
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On March 30 2011 07:01 StorkHwaiting wrote:
If you're worrying about gold and platinum ranks then you have a LONG way to go in terms of being competitive. You really should not be bitching about your rank at this point in time. It's totally meaningless. Worry more about your game skill.
The only people competitive at this game are at top of masters. If you're less than that, just keep playing to improve. Don't waste time on TL getting mad over your arbitrary rank drop. Trust that the system works just fine for players that actually play well. Bronze to Diamond is all just a bunch of nonsense.
Anyone worth their salt is going to be at least mid-masters or higher, and at that point it's quite easy to see what level you are at. Lower than that is mostly just people without a good grasp of RTS flailing away at each other without a clue.
Harsh but true. If you mean competitive as in tournament quality, even mid-master's doesn't really translate into results.
If your skill level really hovers around gold, you'll be back there after playing enough games, don't worry.
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anyway I just played my first game since the placement against a gold zerg rank 7 and I literally destroyed him He asked: "What rank are you lol"
Me: "86 silver.."
Him: "WTF"
yeah. Sigh. Game is boring again.
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If you're destroying so easily you'll be back in no time like I said. What's the big deal?
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On March 30 2011 06:34 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 06:32 Snaiil wrote:Actually it wasn't just that game, that's not how the ladder system works. It's because your MMR (hidden matchmaking rating) has stabilized at silver level. There's a whole post explaining it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150367 Read that and posts being linked in it if you're confused. Sorry for your demotion. To be honest though, you shouldn't be too sad, your visible rank means almost nothing anyway. What matters is how good you actually are and how good the players you beat are, regardless of your/their ranks. Just keep practicing! Sigh this shit is stupid. Done with this game. Why don't they just make it public? It would help people understand. I'm an incredibly competitive player, and it really pisses me off when I feel lied to. I felt as if I was a gold/platinum player because that was all I was playing wtf.
You're "Done with this game" because of something like this?
Then thank god. Get your whining ass out of here.
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On March 30 2011 07:17 Raeleigh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 06:34 ranshaked wrote:On March 30 2011 06:32 Snaiil wrote:Actually it wasn't just that game, that's not how the ladder system works. It's because your MMR (hidden matchmaking rating) has stabilized at silver level. There's a whole post explaining it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150367 Read that and posts being linked in it if you're confused. Sorry for your demotion. To be honest though, you shouldn't be too sad, your visible rank means almost nothing anyway. What matters is how good you actually are and how good the players you beat are, regardless of your/their ranks. Just keep practicing! Sigh this shit is stupid. Done with this game. Why don't they just make it public? It would help people understand. I'm an incredibly competitive player, and it really pisses me off when I feel lied to. I felt as if I was a gold/platinum player because that was all I was playing wtf. You're "Done with this game" because of something like this? Then thank god. Get your whining ass out of here.
You play 500 games and sit at one stupid rank and then after awaiting a promotion you get demoted that far
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On March 30 2011 07:17 nuMi22 wrote:
If you're destroying so easily you'll be back in no time like I said. What's the big deal?
Because i've already gone through this nonsense lol.
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No you haven't, ranshaked. When you were going through silver before, you were at silver level and winning half of your games. This is why it took so long to get promoted. It's completely different now. This time you're at gold level (apparently) and will win 75% of games maybe, and that means you'll be promoted A LOT faster. It's not that big a deal.
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On March 30 2011 07:20 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:17 nuMi22 wrote:
If you're destroying so easily you'll be back in no time like I said. What's the big deal? Because i've already gone through this nonsense lol.
I can assure you that if you were worthy of getting to platinum, you would have gotten there by the 30th game, much less the 500th. You are where you are because that's where you belong at the moment. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ranking system. Everyone I know who is good is in Masters somewhere. Everyone I know who is a casual, clueless, have fun gamer is somewhere diamond or below.
The only nonsense is that you think at 500 games and still in gold/silver, you can start yawning, getting bored, and talking about quitting. You've barely left the difficulty level of the campaign game, yet you're going to quit because you think they made a mistake in ranking you?
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On March 30 2011 07:19 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:17 Raeleigh wrote:On March 30 2011 06:34 ranshaked wrote:On March 30 2011 06:32 Snaiil wrote:Actually it wasn't just that game, that's not how the ladder system works. It's because your MMR (hidden matchmaking rating) has stabilized at silver level. There's a whole post explaining it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150367 Read that and posts being linked in it if you're confused. Sorry for your demotion. To be honest though, you shouldn't be too sad, your visible rank means almost nothing anyway. What matters is how good you actually are and how good the players you beat are, regardless of your/their ranks. Just keep practicing! Sigh this shit is stupid. Done with this game. Why don't they just make it public? It would help people understand. I'm an incredibly competitive player, and it really pisses me off when I feel lied to. I felt as if I was a gold/platinum player because that was all I was playing wtf. You're "Done with this game" because of something like this? Then thank god. Get your whining ass out of here. You play 500 games and sit at one stupid rank and then after awaiting a promotion you get demoted that far
On March 30 2011 07:13 ranshaked wrote:
anyway I just played my first game since the placement against a gold zerg rank 7 and I literally destroyed him He asked: "What rank are you lol"
Me: "86 silver.."
Him: "WTF"
yeah. Sigh. Game is boring again.
Pretty much I'm reading:
Boo hoo I didn't get a promotion and this game is boring now because I'm doing poorly and not working on my mechanics or macro or micro so I got demoted and I'm posting a QQ thread about it and this game is boring because I'm not doing well and boo hoo.
Yes, I'm reading it like it's one completely long, drawn out sentence as well.
If you have grown to love this game, you'll realize this is but a minor setback, and you can work your way back up. Like people have said; If you were doing well in gold, you'll get out of silver easily.
Consider this a chance to go back and rework your mechanics and builds, and to really focus on your macro or micro.
I've played against bronze players with 1,000+ games, and they are still in bronze.
My ex didn't get a promotion for MONTHS until he changed race and focused hard on his micro.
If you're going to give up this easily, eSports, or even just sports in general, are not for you. We won't consider it a loss if you stop whining and stop playing.
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You know you will still be playing iwth the same people you were playing before right?
Matchmaking is done by mostly MMR, not by league/rank
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On March 30 2011 06:32 Snaiil wrote:
What matters is how good you actually are and how good the players you beat are, regardless of your/their ranks.
Funny and sad at the same time that Blizz decided to hide the rating that actually matters tho 
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I was high diamond before reset, first placement match is against (previously) 3.5k masters. Lose a close battle. Placed in diamond. My first three matches are all against 3k masters players, and I lose 2 and win 1. My MMR clearly places me with masters... why am I in diamond??
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This, generally, is just proof for all the people annoyed with the ladder system that the ladder system DOES work.
It encourages people to play and to get to wherever they are.
Really though, I don't understand the whining. Just play more games and you'll promote yourself. It's not like your games are somehow different since your rank is different, your MMR is independent of your league, so games are games are games.
Have fun with SC2.
But this is the same as how achievements are in seemingly every game, and people play for those, I suppose.
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I was like rank two gold and I moved up to platinum
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why are you mad? Platinum and Silver are the same thing. No contest
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1 . get this shit out of your mind. RANK DOES NOT MATTER
2 . if you're truly competitive stop being a baby and complaining about ranks and leagues. beat players, get better, the game will eventually recognize you. you're not gonna go unrecognized if you win 30 straight.
3. if you keep doing well the system WILL work. i guarantee you it will. when i was climbing through the ranks i slowly worked my way up. i was first silver, demoted to bronze, then started playing better and i got into diamond. you're thinking too much about getting into platinum and not getting better.
4. i don't care if this is a rant, stop being a baby and suck it up. you're not going to get anywhere by saying shit like "i'm quiting this game" or "fuck this system".
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On March 30 2011 06:29 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 06:26 Chill wrote:
Why don't you read how the ladder ranking system works? If you understand how it works, combined with the fact that promotion / demotion have been frozen for the last week, you can easily see how this would be possible. I've read and read, but how can one still sit at one rank for over 2 months, and then one game decide that? It makes me not want to play the game if I constantly progress and then I'm thrown down the dumps. It's not as if I've been playing silver players much lol. I've been playing only gold players with the occasional silver.
Sitting at rank 1 gold for months means that thats where you're likely to be. Losing the placement match bumped your average MMR down to gold level. keep playing and if you're meant to be gold you'll be gold..
Unless you're some kind of idiot who measures his penis length by what league he is and has a little tantrum about not being where he wants to be, you really shouldn't care about what league you're in as long as you're having fun games.
Are you that kind of idiot?
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Like most people stated here already, just ignore your ladder ranking and just keep playing. If you are better than the opponents you're playing, you will be bumped back up in no time. If you think the game is stupid because the ladder is working as intended, I don't even know.
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Sucks that you got demoted, but it's not as drastic as it seems. Everyone is hovering around the same amount of points right now and you can easily get to the top of your division with a few games; the top guy in my division right now only has like ~110 points. Not sure why you're getting matched with worse players, though, because your mmr should have carried over.
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Harsh bro but the match making system is not an exact science. Sucks to be you to be demoted at exactly the point that you thought you will get promoted rofl.
Sorry, the universe is against you. Train hard and meet us in Diamond.
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On March 30 2011 07:01 StorkHwaiting wrote:
If you're worrying about gold and platinum ranks then you have a LONG way to go in terms of being competitive. You really should not be bitching about your rank at this point in time. It's totally meaningless. Worry more about your game skill.
The only people competitive at this game are at top of masters. If you're less than that, just keep playing to improve. Don't waste time on TL getting mad over your arbitrary rank drop. Trust that the system works just fine for players that actually play well. Bronze to Diamond is all just a bunch of nonsense.
Anyone worth their salt is going to be at least mid-masters or higher, and at that point it's quite easy to see what level you are at. Lower than that is mostly just people without a good grasp of RTS flailing away at each other without a clue.
StorkHwaiting speaks the truth. If you are anything below High-Diamond you have some fundamental lack of knowledge / skill. That is where your focus should be, anything else is simply not worth getting angry over.
I guarantee you that any coach over the course of one hour could get you to platinum level. Here's some assumptions I could make: You don't scout well, your grasp of your own and your enemies build orders are sparse, your macro falls apart when you reach midgame, you don't continually group buildings / units, your use of hotkeys is very low and you use your mouse way more than your keyboard.
Anyone can reach diamond with 3 basic solid buildorders for each matchup and mechanics alone. Check replays or liquipedia, pick out buildorders and then go from there.
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Almost nobody who complains about the ladder seems to understand it. Silver's not a challenge! I shouldn't be here! Jeeze man, if you beat silver players 85% of the time the system won't bother matching you with them!
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EPT
