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EDIT: I am not complaining about the lag, nor am I saying the tournament is unsuccessful. I only want to discuss what consequences the complaints of OTHERS may have on the TSL, whether there is any merit to these complaints, and what may be done about them.
So, it seems that the big topic of controversy and discussion surrounding the TSL 3 has been the various problems with lag/latency. These issues have led many to believe that the Korean participants' ability to play consistently and to the highest ability has been undermined. Many, including Korean netizens and Boxer's girlfriend, have even claimed that this factor alone has been the deciding factor in the results for Korean players.
Now, I'm not here to start another topic about how severe the lag actually is or whether the Koreans face an insurmountable handicap to their play because of it, but rather to address how these concerns effect the way the TSL 3 is viewed as a major competitive tournament.
I would say that the TSL 3 has all the building blocks assembled to be considered one of the top tournaments around, with the excellent organization, high viewership by the foreign community and contribution by GOMtv to further include the Korean community, big prize pool, and good casters it would be hard to say otherwise. And I can only say that the quality has only improved since TSL 1 and 2. It has really set itself up to be one of the biggest and most successful tournaments which includes the foreign community, making it a much more internationally focused event in a way that is prohibitive in the GSL format.
However, I've seen many saying that because it is an online tournament, and that there are these latency issues, it doesn't realistically reflect the skills and potential of the people playing and thus nullifies the results of the matches. These claims that the results cannot be trusted seem to undermine the premise that this is a serious competitive tournament. All of the hard work and organization to set up an international tournament thus seems worthless if people are not going to even consider it seriously.
Should these issues disqualify TSL 3 as a legitimate international and fair tournament, as some seem to think? Even though I disagree, i'm wondering if these views are justified, and what the TSL organizers could do in the future to avoid this disparaging by some members of the community.
Personally, looking at some of the decision making made by the Korean participants in their matches and the post by Jinro that it is possible to adjust to the latency, I think the Koreans definitely can play on equal footing as the foreigners, but they simply have not put in enough practice to adjust, and this should not reflect negatively on the TSL itself. They have done everything they can to resolve these problems, and obviously blizzard is not going to try and help with this, so there really aren't many other options for this internationally focused event. Perhaps all the matches from the Ro32 should be held in single location, as I know they are doing this for the finals, and it would dissuade the complaints, but that may not be logistically possible for the organizers or players. What do you think? I really want the TSL to become a mainstay of the Starcraft 2 competitive tournament scene and am disappointed to see that it is being questioned in its viability for recognition on the same level as GSL in the future.
  
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TSL has been perfect in every way so far imo.
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On March 28 2011 03:31 LuckyFool wrote:
TSL has been perfect in every way so far imo.
I can't agree. I'm not saying the foreigners wouldn't be able to win in equal situations, they played very well; but I'll always ask, "what would've the outcome been without latency?" I am actually hoping they get eliminated (the remaining Koreans) now just so it doesn't have a sense of unfairness.
And everyone cheering on foreigners feels equally unfair; it's like me beating someone at a sport who is coming to play very sick, and everyone congratulates me for it.
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Korea (South)11577 Posts
On March 28 2011 03:31 LuckyFool wrote:
TSL has been perfect in every way so far imo.
disagree. Where's the DOWN DOWN DOWN.
and where's the BW?
everything besides those 2 things, it's very much pretty awesome.
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+ Show Spoiler +FXOpen Invitational yesterday wasn't played on the Korean server and a Korean won it.
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On March 28 2011 03:39 Zim23 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +FXOpen Invitational yesterday wasn't played on the Korean server and a Korean won it. What you're saying is ridiculous and overblown. Also the TSL3 has already succeeded. It's not some fledgling tournament trying to make it. It is a mainstay, it has gotten more views than any other online SC2 tournament, it is now the golden standard. Lag is an integral part of an online game, something all of us have dealt with. Doesn't undermine anything.
Yes, I agree. This does seem waaaay overblown + I don't think the OP knows that TSL has already been established as being legitimate. There is no question in almost everyones mind that the TSL is legitimate and the winner is the one who prepared the most, trained the hardest and played the best.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 28 2011 03:39 Zim23 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +FXOpen Invitational yesterday wasn't played on the Korean server and a Korean won it. What you're saying is ridiculous and overblown. Also the TSL3 has already succeeded. It's not some fledgling tournament trying to make it. It is a mainstay, it has gotten more views than any other online SC2 tournament, it is now the golden standard. Lag is an integral part of an online game, something all of us have dealt with. Doesn't undermine anything.
Perhaps I should've made my position clearer. I agree that the TSL 3 has been great and acknowledged the massive viewership, I'm trying to address the opinions of the many vocal critics who would put these accomplishments down and am only trying to begin a discussion as to what could assuage their complaints, if they need to be dealt with at all that is, which it seems many don't think so. I guess a minority was just being very loud and I took it to be a larger, more serious group than it actually is. I apologize if I came off as uniformed or as one of those critics myself 
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Lag/lat may make you mess up a tiny bit in some battles, but if you practice on that server for a while then you get used to it. If you are the better play you should win regardless of a slight delay. Koreans fault for not taking the games seriously enough. I've seen Cella play on NA server and he owns up nerds just fine.
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On March 28 2011 03:39 Zim23 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +FXOpen Invitational yesterday wasn't played on the Korean server and a Korean won it. What you're saying is ridiculous and overblown. Also the TSL3 has already succeeded. It's not some fledgling tournament trying to make it. It is a mainstay, it has gotten more views than any other online SC2 tournament, it is now the golden standard. Lag is an integral part of an online game, something all of us have dealt with. Doesn't undermine anything.
Sure it undermines it. Just because all games have to deal with it doesn't mean it's fair. It's not a true competition if someone has an unfair advantage over another. I think the TSL has been a great success, creating entertaining games and loads of views nonetheless.
Also, all games don't deal with it, look at BW. LAN ftw.
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On March 28 2011 04:06 Inori wrote:
I thought games were played on neutral server? i.e. us vs kor @ eu
ROFL
stares @ john the translator
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This is a Blizzard problem, not a TSL3 problem.
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46k current viewers and there isn't even a game going on atm. 50k-ish viewers when there's a game in progress.
I'd say the TSL is doing well.
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On March 28 2011 03:34 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 03:31 LuckyFool wrote:
TSL has been perfect in every way so far imo. disagree. Where's the DOWN DOWN DOWN. and where's the BW? everything besides those 2 things, it's very much pretty awesome.
seconded.
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On March 28 2011 03:39 Zim23 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +FXOpen Invitational yesterday wasn't played on the Korean server and a Korean won it. What you're saying is ridiculous and overblown. Also the TSL3 has already succeeded. It's not some fledgling tournament trying to make it. It is a mainstay, it has gotten more views than any other online SC2 tournament, it is now the golden standard. Lag is an integral part of an online game, something all of us have dealt with. Doesn't undermine anything.
This seems like the post of someone born in like 2004 o.O
Lag is an integral part of an online game? The hell? How about almost every single game ever played in tournaments before this ridiculous 2010+ fad of games developers not putting in LAN support
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On March 28 2011 04:07 Misanthrope wrote:
This is a Blizzard problem, not a TSL3 problem.
exactly. TL does everything to provide as fair a playing field as possibly. There's literally nothing more than can do. So to say the integrity of the TSL is in question honestly is questioning the integrity of the entire game.
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I stopped reading at "Boxer's girlfriend".
She is a master on the subject, huh?
edit: I can't believe I'm adding to this, but Adelscott played MVP on the NA server from Europe, obviously. What's the excuse for that?
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On March 28 2011 04:11 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 03:39 Zim23 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +FXOpen Invitational yesterday wasn't played on the Korean server and a Korean won it. What you're saying is ridiculous and overblown. Also the TSL3 has already succeeded. It's not some fledgling tournament trying to make it. It is a mainstay, it has gotten more views than any other online SC2 tournament, it is now the golden standard. Lag is an integral part of an online game, something all of us have dealt with. Doesn't undermine anything. This seems like the post of someone born in like 2004 o.O Lag is an integral part of an online game? The hell? How about almost every single game ever played in tournaments before this ridiculous 2010+ fad of games developers not putting in LAN support
You do know this is an online tournament right? And players are playing cross-world? Lag is par for the course there, and there's nothing TL could do about it.
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TSL is a great tournament, with an excellent array of players and casters. They also tried to reduce the lag problem as much as they could. On the other hand, it is showing SC2 is so volatile that we could as well play cointoss to decide victory.
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It's a tournament hosted in NA. If the Koreans wanna play, either face the latency or come to NA to play, it's not TL fault.
Jinro has already stated the latency isn't game decisive if you practice to get around it.
//tx
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On March 28 2011 04:12 Bill Murray wrote:
I stopped reading at "Boxer's girlfriend".
She is a master on the subject, huh?
edit: I can't believe I'm adding to this, but Adelscott played MVP on the NA server from Europe, obviously. What's the excuse for that?
Um, Euro to NA versus NA to Asia is not the same...
For the people saying with practice, lag is manageable, sure. Except you do realize that TSL isn't the only concern for the non-NA players right? You don't just practice with expectations of lag on a daily basis.
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I think directing this to Jinro is the best course of action.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205366
It sucks that there's lag issues when mixing Asia & non-Asia players. But if Korean pros aren't willing to put a little time to train on an NA/EU server for a tournament to get used to lag, are they deserving of being placed in that tournament?
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Funny how the most mentioned argument brought up is simply that the highly held koreans lost. So there must be something to it right? *rofl*
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On March 28 2011 03:33 rift wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 03:31 LuckyFool wrote:
TSL has been perfect in every way so far imo. I can't agree. I'm not saying the foreigners wouldn't be able to win in equal situations, they played very well; but I'll always ask, "what would've the outcome been without latency?" I am actually hoping they get eliminated (the remaining Koreans) now just so it doesn't have a sense of unfairness. And everyone cheering on foreigners feels equally unfair; it's like me beating someone at a sport who is coming to play very sick, and everyone congratulates me for it.
Lag should NOT be used as an excuse for losing in this tournament. The korean players knew full well what they were getting into as soon as they were invited. None of them had to accept the invite, they were not forced to play in this event. They chose to play willingly, so to do that, and then complain about the lag (that they most certainly already knew about going into this) is pretty silly imo.
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Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing.
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On March 28 2011 04:37 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing.
Waaaaait a minute, TSL is a north american tournament? Says who?
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Can someone quote the actual statements by Boxer, his gf (lol) and the other pros stating that lag was a big reason for the results of the korean players? Everyone throws those quotes around, but I never saw the source myself.
edit: I know about Jinro's thread btw.
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On March 28 2011 04:37 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing.
lol. false. NA server have the best latency. Which is why it was picked, as mentioned by Chill and Husky yseterday
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On March 28 2011 04:11 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:07 Misanthrope wrote:
This is a Blizzard problem, not a TSL3 problem. exactly. TL does everything to provide as fair a playing field as possibly. There's literally nothing more than can do. So to say the integrity of the TSL is in question honestly is questioning the integrity of the entire game.
I think that's fair.
I hate playing in lag when I'm used to playing on LAN. There's no doubt that it is frustrating for players who are used to good latency. Nothing TL can do about it, but that doesn't change that it's affecting the games.
TSL is as legitimate as any online tournament is ever going to be. There were lag problems in the BW TSLs as well. It's just kinda something you have to accept about this medium. It will never be as good as a LAN tournament.
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What bothers me as well is the fact that we're served replays , despite all the hype around the whole thing.
It just feels kind of stupid.
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On March 28 2011 04:40 apm66 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:37 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing. lol. false. NA server have the best latency. Which is why it was picked, as mentioned by Chill and Husky yseterday
I am lolling here because the person you responded to actually is Husky.
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The ping difference is about 50 ms from where I'm situated in the Midwest US.
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On March 28 2011 04:54 Dystisis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:40 apm66 wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing. lol. false. NA server have the best latency. Which is why it was picked, as mentioned by Chill and Husky yseterday I am lolling here because the person you responded to actually is Husky.
Gold.
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On March 28 2011 04:54 Dystisis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:40 apm66 wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing. lol. false. NA server have the best latency. Which is why it was picked, as mentioned by Chill and Husky yseterday I am lolling here because the person you responded to actually is Husky.
LOL
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On March 28 2011 05:02 tyCe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:54 Dystisis wrote:On March 28 2011 04:40 apm66 wrote:On March 28 2011 04:37 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing. lol. false. NA server have the best latency. Which is why it was picked, as mentioned by Chill and Husky yseterday I am lolling here because the person you responded to actually is Husky. LOL
ROFL
//tx
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There are like 50-100 posters here on TL who joined after SC2, and all they do in every thread is bitch about whatever is the current hot topic. There were literally fucking people in the NASL thread who complained that more Koreans needed to be invited. Then these exact same people create threads stating that the lag was too great when Koreans played foreigners and they didn't want to watch it. Are you kidding me?
It's these same shitty posters who bring up lag in every thread. These vocal people haven't done shit for the community except bitch.
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On March 28 2011 04:11 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:07 Misanthrope wrote:
This is a Blizzard problem, not a TSL3 problem. exactly. TL does everything to provide as fair a playing field as possibly. There's literally nothing more than can do. So to say the integrity of the TSL is in question honestly is questioning the integrity of the entire game.
I totally agree that TL has done an excellent job running the tournament. Short of flying all the players out for an offline tourney I don't think there is anything more they can do, and obviously that suggestion isn't reasonable.
That said, there really should be LAN available. The fact that we are still dealing with cross server latency is pretty lame.
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On March 28 2011 04:37 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing.
There's so much wrong with that statement. There's more non-NA players than NA players, the main sponsor is a non-NA company. Did you even think before you posted that?
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On March 28 2011 04:54 Herpadurr wrote:
What bothers me as well is the fact that we're served replays , despite all the hype around the whole thing.
It just feels kind of stupid.
It has been explained countless time the reason why they aren't broadcasted live is because they want to ensure the players have the best connection without streamers lagging the games.
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It's in topics like these that I wish I could flame. 
Look, TSL3 is as legit as it can be. It's completely fair in that they even offered to delay the day of the game if the lag is bad for a player. They also offered the oGs house for people to play in because the lag is manageable there. Got 2-second lag? Wait for a better connection or play in a place guaranteed with good connection. What more do you want TL to do? This is ridiculous. They made it as fair as possible to the players.
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Doesn't seem like anyone pointed this out yet, but you just suggested that TL cover the cost to fly 16 people from quite a few different countries all to 1 location in NY where they would be for around a month while this tournament finishes up? That's crazy money assuming all the players could even get visa's to come here which is a long shot to begin with considering Ukrainian players have been denied visa's before to go to WCG before iirc.
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On March 28 2011 05:03 zerglingsfolife wrote:
There are like 50-100 posters here on TL who joined after SC2, and all they do in every thread is bitch about whatever is the current hot topic. There were literally fucking people in the NASL thread who complained that more Koreans needed to be invited. Then these exact same people create threads stating that the lag was too great when Koreans played foreigners and they didn't want to watch it. Are you kidding me?
It's these same shitty posters who bring up lag in every thread. These vocal people haven't done shit for the community except bitch.
That strikes me as ironic considering your quote.
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This would of have never been brought up if the koreans did not lose.
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On March 28 2011 05:23 Aegeis wrote:
This would of have never been brought up if the koreans did not lose.
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People need to stop bitching/complaining and whining about getting all this FREE content. How much have a lot of you done for TL? Nothing at all...Why do so many people feel the need to complain. If you don't like it then easy answer for you. Don't fucking watch it. The TSL is a fantastic tournament, with INSANE production value, run by awesome people. They have done nothing but try to make it as transparent and fair as possible.
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On March 28 2011 05:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Doesn't seem like anyone pointed this out yet, but you just suggested that TL cover the cost to fly 16 people from quite a few different countries all to 1 location in NY where they would be for around a month while this tournament finishes up? That's crazy money assuming all the players could even get visa's to come here which is a long shot to begin with considering Ukrainian players have been denied visa's before to go to WCG before iirc.
The way it is set up it takes a month to view the games because it is only showed on the weekends. However, because the games are casted from replays, if they were to simply meet at a location and played the games, it would take them no more than a week, maybe two in order to get through all the games. Given, it is still a logistics nightmare and most likely would not work, I just wanted to say that your time span seems a bit exaggerated.
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United States889 Posts
Given that lag is a premise of an online tournament, and all participants understand that there may be lag involved then it doesn't de-legitimize the tournament.
I figure the reason that Blizzard segregated the servers was because of lag issues, so it's natural that you would get this. They know what they might be getting themselves into so yeah. It's fine. People will complain, and they ought to, but TL can't do anything about this.
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I hate this lag whining. The fact is that most of the koreans/foreigners in Korea got outplayed badly and it is really childish to blame it on the lag. This isn't Broodwar.The game is still not perfected and everyone including the koreans that you look up to can get their asses kicked by any hardworking creative player.
P.S.: TSL ROCKS!
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i've seen all the matches, and what i saw was some (arguable) lag that gave a disadvantage to a couple koreans in the early game.
however, another thing i saw was korean pros making grossly bad decisions and miss timings etc.
did latency probably throw these koreans off their game so that they played subpar ? perhaps. did latency directly cause them to lose games ? absolutely not, and shame on boxer's gf if she made statements implying this was the case.
there will always be this controversy looming over tsl, but seriously, after seeing qxc vs genius and adelscott vs mvp, you can not tell me the two foreigners won because of latency. those were cases of pure outplaying, what am i saying, damn straight owning.
on the other hand, goody vs. nestea ? i don't know man, i got serious doubts about that one.
still, the legitimacy of the tsl isn't compromised. what happened was that mvp and co. did not prepare enough and took this tourney in jest thinking they could use their solid overpracticed styles and win. what they got was builds and styles they almost surely never saw before, let alone practice against, that were executed superbly in most cases, and with the occasional lag spikes on top, they just fell apart.
have to note i am a korean pro fan and i was upset that mvp, nestea etc. got owned so hard. BUT rewatching the games and having the ability to downplay my bias, i must say that if anything, this whole lag debate thing brings into question the actual skill level of the korean pros, and their level of respect for the non-korean scene. the korean netizens can whine all they want, one iem showing korean domination means jack squat, so i'm waiting on the first lan tsl-like tournament to settle the matter, if that kind of shit is relevant - which it isn't to anyone with their heads not up their butts.
in the end, it was good matches, and judging from the viewership and the sheer amount of discussion the tsl has generated throughout the world sc2 scene, this tourney has been a huge success from both the spectator and the business points of view, which in a sense makes it inherently legitimate 
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why are we starting ANOTHER thread about lag?
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You know I thought that lag was going to be big issue for such a large tournament but that hasnt been the case. The Korean-based players didnt lose their games because lag was hurting their micro. They lost because they made bad decisions. The only game I saw that was won/lost on micro alone was genius vs qxc game 2. I think you can argue that lag really hurt genius there because qxc was able to claw his way to victory on the back of EMP. However I cant think of any other game thus that you could delegitimitize due to lag.
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On March 28 2011 05:20 StarSense wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 05:03 zerglingsfolife wrote:
There are like 50-100 posters here on TL who joined after SC2, and all they do in every thread is bitch about whatever is the current hot topic. There were literally fucking people in the NASL thread who complained that more Koreans needed to be invited. Then these exact same people create threads stating that the lag was too great when Koreans played foreigners and they didn't want to watch it. Are you kidding me?
It's these same shitty posters who bring up lag in every thread. These vocal people haven't done shit for the community except bitch. That strikes me as ironic considering your quote.
Lol that's my quote because it's an example of a hilarious PR blunder.
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TSL=awesomeness. Sure, the lag might be a "problem" but if you ask any one of the players, I would say that 90-95% wouldn't even complain (and they are the ones playing). Considering the social stigma against gaming in NA, TSL has been a breakthrough.
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There will always be criticisms of any event; the larger the viewer base, the more complaints.
It's ridiculous to ask questions like "Has the legitimacy of TSL3 been compromised?"...
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They did what they could. There's been issues but I don't think there's anything that could be done about them by TL, and in spite of it there's already been a lot of good games. When it's all NA and EU players I think we'll have a very good, clean tournament with few hiccups. It's just too bad the Korean players weren't prepared(not blaming them, I don't think they knew in advance that adjusting to latency would be such a big issue) and weren't able to show their true colors. There are still some very good foreigners playing.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
You know, this whole "one side not preparing for the conditions" reminds me of the World Baseball Classic, where countries such as the USA don't prepare nearly as seriously as countries such as Korea or Japan.
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Anyone who saw the game between TLO and Nada when Nada did his banshee harass micro will realize that the lag isn't even half as bas as certain people claims it to be.
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On March 28 2011 04:54 Herpadurr wrote:
What bothers me as well is the fact that we're served replays , despite all the hype around the whole thing.
It just feels kind of stupid.
What, you want it to lag even more?
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This thread is preeeetty much mooted by jinro's thread in TSL forum, titled on the subject of na kr lag, everyone in here just go read that done endofthread.
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On March 28 2011 06:10 Wolf wrote:
There will always be criticisms of any event; the larger the viewer base, the more complaints.
It's ridiculous to ask questions like "Has the legitimacy of TSL3 been compromised?"...
Agreed.
Larger viewer base also equals more ridiculous questions/claims.
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On March 28 2011 04:31 Tschis wrote:
It's a tournament hosted in NA. If the Koreans wanna play, either face the latency or come to NA to play, it's not TL fault.
Jinro has already stated the latency isn't game decisive if you practice to get around it.
//tx
but at the same time Jinro's performance in the GCPL was affected by lag and he was getting really pissed off about it, during the time where the game is being played and your experiencing this lag it can be extremely frusterating and put you in a terrible state of mind where its impossible to win, you can find the quotes somewhere of what jinro said after his GCPL map something like "Fuck this fucking lag its nearly impossible to micro vikings" among other things. Also its been noted that if you are using Korean telecom internet service in korea the latency is generally fine , this is the internet service the OGS house uses and is the reason they were able to do so well in the FXOPEN yesterday, whereas other korean houses like IM are using a different service wich lags considerably more.
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On March 28 2011 04:40 apm66 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:37 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing. lol. false. NA server have the best latency. Which is why it was picked, as mentioned by Chill and Husky yseterday
wow. mind = blown at people....
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It depends. While I can't say I've overwhelmingly enjoyed the games so far, I can't think of anything anyone involved could have done better (without involving ludicrous amounts of money). On top of all that, the next round's matches should be quite a bit more entertaining.
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On March 28 2011 04:40 apm66 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 04:37 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing. lol. false. NA server have the best latency. Which is why it was picked, as mentioned by Chill and Husky yseterday
soooo funny :D
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Canada1637 Posts
On March 28 2011 04:37 HuskyTheHusky wrote:
Its a North American tournament. Thus it is played on North American servers. Mind blowing.
I thought it was rotated and based off seeding? Obviously you're casting so you should know best, but can anyone clear this up? O_o;
Also, imo the games in RO32 being a mix of 1.2 and 1.3 kinda compromises things, but hey nothing is perfect and TSL3 is damn near it!
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How do you "adapt to latency"? Can you adapt so that your decision wouldn't be half a second late? Everyone knows what a difference of a fraction of a second can do to high-level professional gaming. One thing I know is that nobody complained the fairness of IEM and GSL games because they're LAN tournaments and players played on the same server. Unfortunately, TSL turned out to be not what I expected it to be. I think it's better not to invite Koreans in GSL 4.
Latency depends on the distance between servers, the amount of fiber optic cables connecting between 2 serves, and internet service providers. If you google world fiber optic cable map you would see that the amount of cables connecting NA and EU servers is ten to twenty times that of between NA and KR servers. Also, throughout all the online international tournaments that I've watched, oGs players seemed to have better success compared to other Korean teams. I think this might've been relating to the different ISP's. Some ISP use network better for regional play, some use more modern network with more optic cables; others use cheap network not perfect for cross-server communication.
To avoid this problem in the future, I think it's better not to invite Koreans unless it's LAN. Considering the number of complaints I don't think this tournament says anything about player skills. It does, however, shows that TSL has done everything they could to make this the best tournament possible.
So far, almost all LAN tournaments involving Koreans, from Blizzcon to IEM. are dominated by Koreans. This is the only tournament that Koreans have only gone 3-3. Also, foreigners playing from Korea all have failed. So, what's the question of why they have not live up to expectation considering their dominance in LAN tournaments? This question alone is enough to reconsider and not downgrading Koreans' skill like all the casters have done.
When I play on KR server from NA, my marine "run and shoot" micro against banshee just does not exist.
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On March 28 2011 04:07 Misanthrope wrote:
This is a Blizzard problem, not a TSL3 problem.
exactly my thoughts.. tsl has done it's best to work around the situation given that they are not allowed to do anything to blizz's servers to reduce the lag, they've compensated the best they could already.
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didn't sotg say that the higher seed had lower latency for 2 games? ie seed 1 NA seed 2 kr g
ame 1 NA
game 2 KR
game 3 NA?
I dont like that theres latency here and how it can be an issue but honestly what can anyone do about that? when you're connecting across the world theres gona be latency no matter what.
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For all of you saying ppl are complaining just because koreans lost, I don´t think that´s accurate. After watching a couple of games with korean players, I felt they weren´t microing their best.
At first I was pissed at THEM, for thinking they were not taking this tournament seriously enough. Then, after reading some threads, I realized that the reason might be latency.
My opinion is that the TSL is an amazing tournament, almost perfect so far and there is nothing the organizers can do about the latency problems.
Having said that, I don´t agree at all with people who claim the best player should win despite the lag. It does make a HUGE difference - that I can say from my own experience. Even a very slight delay can make an enormous difference. Yes, maybe if you practiced a lot you could kindda get used to it, but I don´t think anyone should practice playing with lag, for many reasons. So, if I´m correct, the koreans are in a bit of a disadvantage, and the results of the matches do not mean that a certain player is currently better than another.
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EPT
