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Inc rant:
+ Show Spoiler +Why do no protosses know how to play a straight up game anymore? I'm not exaggerating here, the last 20 or so of my ZvPs have been all ins from the Protoss. And the hardest thing about it is that ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP. There is nothing the zerg can do to stop a 4 gate, even if you know its coming. This is what I hate most about it. Not that I lose my games, but that Protoss can just make 4 gates, 1a2a3a (or in their case just 1a) into the zerg base and win. You can't even scout it sometimes because they will nexus cancel cheese, fake 3 gate expo cheese, or just straight up 4 gate cheese. Even when I do know its coming (protoss builds stalker first, or every game now), I don't have the production capability to stop it even with DOUBLE the workers. Without a natural expansion (which I lose most of my games because of cannon cheese), its actually IMPOSSIBLE to hold off a 4 gate... (even with one you still can't). If the protoss doesn't 4 gate, its time to play the guessing game of What cheese is coming?. Because protoss has so many cheese options (4 gate, 6 gate, dts, void rays), you can't prepare for all of them and expect to win. Oh yeah, thats another thing. 6 GATE IS JUST AS HARD TO HOLD AS 4 GATE (which is impossible). By the time you scout it, the protoss already has an army 1a'ing into your base. I don't see any way to beat protoss now, and I think I'm going to get demoted soon. It seems that with the new patch, Blizzard has secretly buffed gateway units to the point that 4 gate is impossible to stop... fuck 4 gate.
 
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lol rage. just 6 pool them 
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On March 24 2011 08:43 GenesisX wrote:
I don't have the production capability to stop it even with DOUBLE the workers.
maybe you shouldn't make that many drones
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OK heres my view, first off DO NOT steal a protoss player gas if you dont want to get fourgated, second with the recent nerf to templars, protoss players do not want to got to late game because they are substantially weaker. IMO there is going to be a lot more 4 gates in the future than there was before the patch
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What's ironic is most Zerg players are saying 4gate is ridic easy to stop if you know it's coming. You're probably doing something wrong. Same with 6gate if you know it's coming, although you almost never do.
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On March 24 2011 08:47 FabledIntegral wrote:
What's ironic is most Zerg players are saying 4gate is ridic easy to stop if you know it's coming. You're probably doing something wrong. Same with 6gate if you know it's coming, although you almost never do.
The problem is the first part - it's very hard to know when it's coming.
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god fucking damn those protosses.
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On March 24 2011 08:43 GenesisX wrote:
I don't have the production capability to stop it even with DOUBLE the workers.
yeh this is exactly your problem... you're supposed to stop at like 21 drones if u know a 4g is coming and just build units from there on
but as a protoss i do agree, its fairly easy to make it incredibly ambiguous and just win if the zerg doesn't prepare exactly right for it... which is one of the reasons I do it so much -.-
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Loose definition of cheese you've got there :/
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If you're nat gets cannoned in then you've pretty much got to take a different base or go for a one base roach all in. I prefer the roach all-in, since you're just gonna get cannoned/4-gated at the expansion and you won't win. If you see the pylon go down pull like half your drones and kill it. Otherwise you'll lose.
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My qualm with 4gate as a Terran is that, much like with Zergs, it's extremely easy to look like you're doing a heavy macro build, a 1 gate fe, and actually be 4gating. The enormous disparity between the two builds in terms of macro makes any response to one a huge disadvantage to the other, and Protoss's can play it so it is extremely fucking difficult to tell which one they went for. Fuck. Pro. Toss.
And that's just one patch of bullshit they throw at you nowadays!
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On March 24 2011 08:50 Turgid wrote:
Loose definition of cheese you've got there :/
we've gotten to the point where cheese is standard
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
I wish protoss players would 4 gate me every game. Instead they like to make unbeatable 200/200 armies.
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I'm a Protoss player in PvZ. What builds are not cheesy or abusive to you, angry zerg? I understand that you think any warpgate timing attack is cheese, and that dark templar is cheese, and stargate tech is cheese, and I bet you're probably not too happy about it if I decide to play defensively on 3 bases and end up with a big colossus army. So tell me what builds I'm allowed to do.
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And the hardest thing about it is that ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP.
Zero stars sir.
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On March 24 2011 09:02 The KY wrote:Zero stars sir.
i gave it a one, since it seems like he needs some encouragement to get back on his feet and defeat the 4 gate!
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Turgid:
I'm a Protoss player in PvZ. What builds are not cheesy or abusive to you, angry zerg? I understand that you think any warpgate timing attack is cheese, and that dark templar is cheese, and stargate tech is cheese, and I bet you're probably not too happy about it if I decide to play defensively on 3 bases and end up with a big colossus army. So tell me what builds I'm allowed to do.
Turgid you are a hero. I've finally realized just how silly the word cheese is after that insanely sarcastic remark!
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erm, just get a bunch of lurkers
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That first sentence makes me wanna write a " Protoss - Y U NO PLAY STRAIGHT UP?" meme poster thing. Someone should do that and post it in the appropriate medium.
And yeah, I find macro toss players to be a rarity. I don't mind because if I make it through hell (the early game), I've basically won. Slowly getting better.
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try massing lings and squeezing in +1.
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I like the word cheese for cannon rushes and proxy buildings and stuff! Coincidentally those are just builds that ballers do when they wanna show off that they're badass. 8/9/9 proxy gates is like the SC2 equivalent of drivin a sweet old refurbished camaro. Zerg players don't complain about this stuff but it's only because they're too impressed by the style of it all to care when they lose.
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Your problem is that you are over producing drones. Start making lings sooner.
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On March 24 2011 08:49 kaisr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 08:43 GenesisX wrote:
I don't have the production capability to stop it even with DOUBLE the workers. yeh this is exactly your problem... you're supposed to stop at like 21 drones if u know a 4g is coming and just build units from there on
What I mean is that even with double the workers and an expansion I still can't stop it
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14 gas, 15 pool, 14 extractor, 16 evo. Set 3 workers to gas to 100 and then remove 2. At 100 gas get +1 melee attack. Expand as usual at 21. Make spine crawlers at natural and start a spine in main. Move spine to ramp or natural. Next 100 gas use for speed. Put 2 workers back on gas if you need speed faster (M boost). Mass drones or mass lings if rush is coming.
3 spines should be enough with the +1 slow lings to stop 4 gate. Good luck.
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On March 24 2011 09:06 FODDER~ wrote:Show nested quote +
Turgid:
I'm a Protoss player in PvZ. What builds are not cheesy or abusive to you, angry zerg? I understand that you think any warpgate timing attack is cheese, and that dark templar is cheese, and stargate tech is cheese, and I bet you're probably not too happy about it if I decide to play defensively on 3 bases and end up with a big colossus army. So tell me what builds I'm allowed to do.
Turgid you are a hero. I've finally realized just how silly the word cheese is after that insanely sarcastic remark!
Believe it or not protoss in its current state vs the other two races is imba..... (Thats why i rerolled to Toss, PvZ is almost funny at times late game.)
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I think all zergs can agree one gate play is fair.
Look, obviously PvZ isn't in the best shape, but at the same time, protoss should play like protoss and not zerg. Meaning, do protoss have stronger macro then zerg? No. Stronger timing attacks? Yes. You can't expect Protoss to abandon the natural advantage they have to pleasing some macro-junkie zerg. Especially when you think our tactics reflect negatively on our skill. I can't count the times I've moved my army back and forth, used the zergs intel against him for 15 minutes, scouted his progress with hallucinations. --"All you did was A move."-- and I laugh, because if you are truly that blind to the subtleties in my play you earned your loss wholly.
Just make sure you take into account all the little things in your opponents play before you label him a condemnable 1amover.
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at about 6:00 if they haven't expanded you need only make units
Greg started making about 20 lings when he has about 1.5-2 bases saturated to either pressure the nexus or so you can hold off whatever shit they try to throw at you if they cancel the nexus
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On March 24 2011 09:12 GenesisX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 08:49 kaisr wrote:On March 24 2011 08:43 GenesisX wrote:
I don't have the production capability to stop it even with DOUBLE the workers. yeh this is exactly your problem... you're supposed to stop at like 21 drones if u know a 4g is coming and just build units from there on What I mean is that even with double the workers and an expansion I still can't stop it
It's a timing attack. It's designed to hit you before you gain the full benefit of the drones. I typically don't count the expansion as a bonus because at this stage of the game it's not only standard but necessary for the zerg to be a base up, as was true in Brood War as well.
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How exactly is a 4 gate hard to scout? Just send a normal timed drone scout if your ovi misses and if he's saving up energy on the nexus before the cyber core finishes it's an obvious 4 gate. Also, just because you lose to 4 gate/3 gate/6 gate doesn't mean they're cheese.
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I think your problem is you're making too many drones if you have 'double' the amount of drones that he has when your opponent is 4gating you.
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Sunken is your best friend
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Warpgate technology is too cheap and too necessary because of the obnoxious boost in productivity per gateway + warp-in-anywhere technology. 50/50 is all it costs to make your warpgates produce at ~1.5 times normal speed and allow you to warp to forward pylons, while OV speed got bumped from 50/50 to 100/100 because it was a "gimme-upgrade" that players always got without thinking about it.
Gimme a break, Blizzard.
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On March 24 2011 08:48 MonsieurGrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 08:47 FabledIntegral wrote:
What's ironic is most Zerg players are saying 4gate is ridic easy to stop if you know it's coming. You're probably doing something wrong. Same with 6gate if you know it's coming, although you almost never do. The problem is the first part - it's very hard to know when it's coming.
Oh I'm aware, but he said "even when I know it's coming."
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On March 24 2011 09:08 nArAnjO wrote:
erm, just get a bunch of lurkers
If only 
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Yeah it's absolutely completely unstoppable ZvP, which is why it's done every single game you see. All those tosses in GSL? They just do those other 3gate sentry expand builds and the like for show because they know they'd win with a 4gate anyway. Why bother 4gating if you know you're gonna win right? Just takes out all the excitement.
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I think it's frustrating as well. As a gold T player I'm told to always make workers but now I've seen people say to stop when the P hasn't expanded? wont that just kill my economy?
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I'll give you an answer to your problem that makes as much sense as your post.
Go mass muta.
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On March 24 2011 09:38 Cramsy wrote:
I think it's frustrating as well. As a gold T player I'm told to always make workers but now I've seen people say to stop when the P hasn't expanded? wont that just kill my economy?
They're talking about zerg, not terran.
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On March 24 2011 09:38 Cramsy wrote:
I think it's frustrating as well. As a gold T player I'm told to always make workers but now I've seen people say to stop when the P hasn't expanded? wont that just kill my economy?
Well against a 1-base toss, if you can hold off the 4 gate, you'll be in much better shape than the Toss because despite being on even bases, the Terran will usually be ahead. A 4-gating toss usually sacrifices heavily on the eco, so if you sacrifice a bit on your own eco to stop it, then you will come out in much better shape than the toss.
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this will most likely help you so pay attention to what im saying.
havent lost to 4gate in a long time. heres what i do:
1. it helps of you know its coming, try scouting it, try to have lings patrolling the perimeter of your base. check spaces in which youd think it would be convenient for a toss player to place pylons.
if you see a probe just idling around near your base, expect the 4gate to hit. next step see pt. 3
2. as stated before, it helps to see it coming. steal his gas. go ahead. chances are hell try to 4gate you. at least youll know its coming,
3. take your drones off gas. you dont need it to hold off a 4gate. in fact, if youre unsure about his gameplan and feel unsafe, do it anyway.
4. stop droning immediately and start pumping lings. dont try to go for roaches or anything else.
roach warren will cost you, roaches take too much supply. take too long to come out.
5. try to threaten runbys. take a handful of lings and try to get them into your opponents base. hell have to divert troops there.
6. dont let him build momentum. keep pumping lings and try to isolate reinforcements, either from his main or from his pylon. try to take out the pylon. or the probe.
7. sort of a last ditch measure: if you really, really really dont wanna get 4gated. stop pumping drones at around 20 workers. start pumping lings instead and take your drones off gas. dont stop pumping them off 2bases with a queen each. that way youll definitely be safe from a normal 4gate, unless hes going for dts or air in whcih case you should have the mins to get out queens or spores.
if you read him wrong and he is going for a 3gate expand you can easily deny him by using your mass lings to keep him in his base. this has a very allinish flavor to it tho and you should definitely start teching up after having pushed back your opponent into his base.
hope this helps you!
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I love your tears OP.
That is what I say to whiners on ladder.
Do you sac overloards?
Do you greedily make nothing but drones and queens?
Do you build 3-4 sunkens?
Do you understand backstab?
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On March 24 2011 09:52 Redunzl wrote:
I love your tears OP.
That is what I say to whiners on ladder.
Do you sac overloards?
Do you greedily make nothing but drones and queens?
Do you build 3-4 sunkens?
Do you understand backstab?
yes, no, too late, not useful
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lol
ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP
this and your definition of cheese is bold
Bold like this
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don't hate,
cause you can't 4 gate
losers gonna wait
in queue, ragin
just waitin on wagin
another war.
don't hate,
cause you can't reiterate,
my friend I know a flamebait
when i see one.
that trash you talkin
is makin everybody walkin
don't hate,
cause it's not too late
you can still be a pro like me
work hard, watch dailies
play tough, get ladies
just believe in yourself
don't hate,
the 4-gate
when you cryin cheese
we all say please
respect the game, play strong
be noble and you can't go wrong.
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What map was this on? Usually you can deny a 4-gate by scouting vigilantly with lings, and killing scouting probes. If you see a four-gate coming, one of your top priorities should be preventing or killing the proxy pylon.
Also note that even if you pull and sac some drones/queen, you'll still be slightly ahead most of the time.
One of the worst feelings for a protoss is AFTER a 4-gate fails.
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Well..... seeing as a standard 4 Gate has ~20 Probes give or take, and you have "double the workers"
Why the fuck do you have 40 workers in 6 Minutes if you are expecting a 4 Gate??
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On March 24 2011 10:17 Kazzabiss wrote:
Well..... seeing as a standard 4 Gate has ~20 Probes give or take, and you have "double the workers"
Why the fuck do you have 40 workers in 6 Minutes if you are expecting a 4 Gate??
exaggeration, but its pretty much that many.
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On March 24 2011 10:19 GenesisX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 10:17 Kazzabiss wrote:
Well..... seeing as a standard 4 Gate has ~20 Probes give or take, and you have "double the workers"
Why the fuck do you have 40 workers in 6 Minutes if you are expecting a 4 Gate?? exaggeration, but its pretty much that many.
So what you are saying is, that a zerg player will never, ever beat a 4 Gate? Why are there even Zergs in the GSL then? Why did Ret win assembly, IdrA at MLG DC. Surely Protoss have figured out by now that they will win no matter what with a 4 Gate.
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This is my conclusion. Every protoss and their dog does the 3 gate expand. Zergs know this, and they get away with it so hard. Everytime I lose in a macro game, I wonder what the fuck went wrong. Well duh, he has 20 more drones and he's been pumping them out. So I just 4 gate now. YOUR fault, for being a greedy SOB.
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On March 24 2011 10:19 GenesisX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 10:17 Kazzabiss wrote:
Well..... seeing as a standard 4 Gate has ~20 Probes give or take, and you have "double the workers"
Why the fuck do you have 40 workers in 6 Minutes if you are expecting a 4 Gate?? exaggeration, but its pretty much that many.
Then you're producing too many. You've received good advice in this thread IMO. The tough part about 4gate is just scouting it, but you seem to have a problem regardless, which means you're just doing something wrong. I've also heard it's tough if you guess the unit composition incorrectly but a lot of zergs just seem to want to defend it with pure ling + spine crawlers now regardless of map so idk if thats that much of a challenge anymore.
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On March 24 2011 10:22 Kazzabiss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 10:19 GenesisX wrote:On March 24 2011 10:17 Kazzabiss wrote:
Well..... seeing as a standard 4 Gate has ~20 Probes give or take, and you have "double the workers"
Why the fuck do you have 40 workers in 6 Minutes if you are expecting a 4 Gate?? exaggeration, but its pretty much that many. So what you are saying is, that a zerg player will never, ever beat a 4 Gate? Why are there even Zergs in the GSL then? Why did Ret win assembly, IdrA at MLG DC. Surely Protoss have figured out by now that they will win no matter what with a 4 Gate.
theres a reason i called it a RANT, i exaggerated so much in my post because... well I was raging lol
Realistically though, its really hard to hold for me especially when Protoss does the "MC cancel nexus 4 gate". I really can see no counter to this because Zergs reaction to seeing an expo is droning up, which is exactly what makes P win to this kind of 4 gate.
And yes, sometimes I can't even stop it when I see it coming. Zealot tank + stalker range + sentry ff = death zerg.
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I love rants. ^_^
fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk 4gate man. sum gay bullshit der.
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On March 24 2011 10:26 GenesisX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 10:22 Kazzabiss wrote:On March 24 2011 10:19 GenesisX wrote:On March 24 2011 10:17 Kazzabiss wrote:
Well..... seeing as a standard 4 Gate has ~20 Probes give or take, and you have "double the workers"
Why the fuck do you have 40 workers in 6 Minutes if you are expecting a 4 Gate?? exaggeration, but its pretty much that many. So what you are saying is, that a zerg player will never, ever beat a 4 Gate? Why are there even Zergs in the GSL then? Why did Ret win assembly, IdrA at MLG DC. Surely Protoss have figured out by now that they will win no matter what with a 4 Gate. theres a reason i called it a RANT, i exaggerated so much in my post because... well I was raging lol Realistically though, its really hard to hold for me especially when Protoss does the "MC cancel nexus 4 gate". I really can see no counter to this because Zergs reaction to seeing an expo is droning up, which is exactly what makes P win to this kind of 4 gate. And yes, sometimes I can't even stop it when I see it coming. Zealot tank + stalker range + sentry ff = death zerg.
Essentially, he's not asking how to stop a 4-gate, he wasnt people to zerg QQ with him.
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People really need to learn what cheese is.
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On March 24 2011 10:31 Wolf wrote:
People really need to learn what cheese is.
I didn't know standard play was cheese
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I'll keep 4 gating for as long as zergs keep assuming 3 gate expand and blindly take super early third with 415423 drones. ^_^
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On March 24 2011 10:37 hifriend wrote:
I'll keep 4 gating for as long as zergs keep assuming 3 gate expand and blindly take super early third with 415423 drones. ^_^
I'll keep 2 gating for as long as zergs keep assuming 1 gate core and blindly 15 hatch.
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One Gate Two Gate Three Gate Four
Every single matchup units knocking at your door
From Bronze to Masters league with one build so i'm sure
Thats why Protoss is EZ.
^ is from "Why noobs don't get GGd" by Suspense.
But yeah, im one of the rare protosses who refuse to 4gate at all.
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On March 24 2011 08:57 T.O.P. wrote:
I wish protoss players would 4 gate me every game. Instead they like to make unbeatable 200/200 armies.
Haha feel the same as well. Even though I hate all ins and love macro games, it's always the macro games that are the hardest to win.
Not to say 4 gates aren't hard to hold off, but their far from "impossible." In fact, if you know one's coming, you have an at least 80% chance of winning. Of course it's a micro war, but as long as you don't accidently move(instead of a-moving) your units or something like that, you'll do alright.
Just get in the habit of getting an overlord over there in the right position to be able to sac it. If you do know a 4 gate is coming, or are very suspicius of one, then build a roach warren just to be safe.
On the longer maps obviously you won't have an overlord ready to be sacced 100% of the time. That would normally be "Ahhhh", but fortunately its also a longer map. You can build a roach warren(if suspicious) and still drone up, and then build units when its time.
Things to look for for 4 gate:
1.4 gates.
2.Stalker pops out first
3.One gas(and not getting gas. Try to keep drone alive for this purpose. If he doesn't get gas its the zealot stalker 4 gate, and you need roach warren asap.)
4.Saved chrono.
It's all about knowing if its a 4 gate, once you get that settled, its easy.
P.S. If you need help beating a 4 gate, or you get 4 gated, then hook me up. I know how cruddy it feels when you get cheesed/all-ined, and trust me I above probably 99% of people HATE HATE HATE all ins. Maybe I can play a couple games against some of these 4 gaters and show you how to hold it off.
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Well soon there will be a new GameBreakingStrategyDice for Protoss to mix up this stuff. It will be a 12Dice and people can role him at start and we will see amazing new games. We will make 3 versions of it for every matchup and this will have fancy colours.
1-8 - 4Gate
9-10 - Collossi /Stalker
11 - Air
12 - Caononrush
9,95 bugs for it, it will be amazing.
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On March 24 2011 10:32 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 10:31 Wolf wrote:
People really need to learn what cheese is. I didn't know standard play was cheese
It isn't. It just annoys me that people think it is.
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On March 24 2011 11:02 Wolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 10:32 101toss wrote:On March 24 2011 10:31 Wolf wrote:
People really need to learn what cheese is. I didn't know standard play was cheese It isn't. It just annoys me that people think it is.
Eh it actually is in a way.
Cheese is something which, if discovered, you are way behind, or even lose. I think we can definitely agree that falls to 4 gate. However 4 gate is unique in the regards that even if it fails your not at a 100% losing position, just behind. There are even 4 gate expands you can do if found out.
However I would say for the most part 4 gate is a cheese. If your opponent knows your 4 gating, he will win 90% of the time.. It's about the uncertainty that makes 4 gate so strong.
4 gate is one of those semi cheeses, semi allins. Definitely not equivalent to a dt rush(where what can you fall back on if your opponent has detection) or a two gate proxy.
However, are you saying in the regards that if scouted its still hard to stop? While true somewhat, if scouted early enough and he doesn't cancel( as in just as they're finishing) i would say you still have a good chance of holding it off.
This topic definitely is a noteworthy debate on its own, but keep in mind that what you think is annoying is what others believe is true.
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love this rant.
Seriously, don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous that toss in the GSL and other prominent tourneys are STILL winning with 4 gate? It's not like you see 3 rax all-in as a common strategy, or 7 roach rush. But no, the same 4 gate all-in from beta is still here with us today -- BECAUSE IT"S SO RIDICULOUSLY STRONG.
All I want is one change -- make gateway to warpgate transformation take 30-40 seconds. I bet you this will not only fix ZvP but also PvP where going robotics against 4 gate won't be suicide.
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On March 24 2011 11:07 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 11:02 Wolf wrote:On March 24 2011 10:32 101toss wrote:On March 24 2011 10:31 Wolf wrote:
People really need to learn what cheese is. I didn't know standard play was cheese It isn't. It just annoys me that people think it is. 4 gate is one of those semi cheeses, semi allins. Definitely not equivalent to a dt rush(where what can you fall back on if your opponent has detection) or a two gate proxy.
If your dt rush fails, you can tech to archons
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Is your character name GenX?
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I've always wondered, is it "4 GATE" or "4 GATES"?
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On March 24 2011 11:45 parn wrote:
I've always wondered, is it "4 GATE" or "4 GATES"?
It is the "4 warpgate rush"; warpgate->gate; therefore, it is the "4 gate"
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On March 24 2011 11:08 happyft wrote:
love this rant.
Seriously, don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous that toss in the GSL and other prominent tourneys are STILL winning with 4 gate? It's not like you see 3 rax all-in as a common strategy, or 7 roach rush. But no, the same 4 gate all-in from beta is still here with us today -- BECAUSE IT"S SO RIDICULOUSLY STRONG.
All I want is one change -- make gateway to warpgate transformation take 30-40 seconds. I bet you this will not only fix ZvP but also PvP where going robotics against 4 gate won't be suicide.
To be honest with you I don't think that's a good change. It hurts Protoss more than it helps Zerg. If we couldn't produce any gateway units for 30-40 seconds I think we'd die to a lot more stupid one base timings which I thought we were trying to get rid of. zerg would even have some stupid stuff that would work on Protoss and while a lot of disgruntled zerg players will look at that and go "yeah that sounds great, a stupid all-in that will work ON THEIR safe play!" for revenge reasons it just isn't good for the game and is the kind of thing we want to eliminate.
As for it fixing PvP, maybe, but I can see it working the other way too. Warpgates literally make stuff faster than gateways so I can see it being possible that the 4gater would be able to do his timing attack and disallow the roboing player to make his warpgates, meaning the 4gater would be producing them much much more quickly. Or worse the rush could hit while the gates were still transforming.
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aw no one liked my rap? :\
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On March 24 2011 11:27 tekushikume wrote:
Is your character name GenX?
Yes it is.
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People who argue that 4gate is standard are friggin' retarded. It's not standard by any means.
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On March 24 2011 09:10 da_head wrote:
try massing lings and squeezing in +1.
that usually works vs me haha but the I don't do it often.
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They need to buff normal gateway production and push warpgate further back in the tech tree. Put it in the Twilight Council. That provides added incentive to go something other than robo-tech, and instantly makes the 4gate impossible.
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On March 24 2011 11:08 happyft wrote:
love this rant.
Seriously, don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous that toss in the GSL and other prominent tourneys are STILL winning with 4 gate? It's not like you see 3 rax all-in as a common strategy, or 7 roach rush. But no, the same 4 gate all-in from beta is still here with us today -- BECAUSE IT"S SO RIDICULOUSLY STRONG.
All I want is one change -- make gateway to warpgate transformation take 30-40 seconds. I bet you this will not only fix ZvP but also PvP where going robotics against 4 gate won't be suicide.
You do realize that games that get won with 4gate are (in non PvP matchups) never blind 4gates and rely on mindgames in some what, and (in PvP) are part of mindgames and implied aggression?
It's not 'hurrr attack' by any means if you want it to work.
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On March 24 2011 14:25 GenesisX wrote:Yes it is.
I apologize for 4 gating you.
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4 Gate is easy to execute and it's an effective strategy at lower levels so why stop? All 4 gates are not the same. I played about 100 4 gate rush in a row and I realized not only my 4 gate timing was better and I was executing it much better, it improved my game overall. I started noticing build times and opponent timings. I personally think it's a great way to improve toss players mechanics. Now that I mastered 4 gating and noticing it not working too well at higher levels, I usually 2 gate expand against zerg and I'm much more comfortable with zerg's timings that I learned from all the 4 gates. I think every toss should master 4 gate until they can hit about 3500 master and then when they are comfortable with the build order, they can start new build orders like 2 gate expand against P and Z. The transition worked really well for me.
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On March 25 2011 04:14 tekushikume wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 14:25 GenesisX wrote:On March 24 2011 11:27 tekushikume wrote:
Is your character name GenX? Yes it is. I apologize for 4 gating you.
Its fine.
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Funny, I play P and hate 4gate too. Especially in PvZ... I get raped by ling roach pretty bad whenever I attempt it (which is not often, but still.)
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EPT
