EPTIt isn't. It just annoys me that people think it is.
I HATE 4 GATE - Page 4
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
It isn't. It just annoys me that people think it is. | ||
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Pandain
United States12984 Posts
On March 24 2011 11:02 Wolf wrote: It isn't. It just annoys me that people think it is. Eh it actually is in a way. Cheese is something which, if discovered, you are way behind, or even lose. I think we can definitely agree that falls to 4 gate. However 4 gate is unique in the regards that even if it fails your not at a 100% losing position, just behind. There are even 4 gate expands you can do if found out. However I would say for the most part 4 gate is a cheese. If your opponent knows your 4 gating, he will win 90% of the time.. It's about the uncertainty that makes 4 gate so strong. 4 gate is one of those semi cheeses, semi allins. Definitely not equivalent to a dt rush(where what can you fall back on if your opponent has detection) or a two gate proxy. However, are you saying in the regards that if scouted its still hard to stop? While true somewhat, if scouted early enough and he doesn't cancel( as in just as they're finishing) i would say you still have a good chance of holding it off. This topic definitely is a noteworthy debate on its own, but keep in mind that what you think is annoying is what others believe is true. | ||
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happyft
United States470 Posts
Seriously, don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous that toss in the GSL and other prominent tourneys are STILL winning with 4 gate? It's not like you see 3 rax all-in as a common strategy, or 7 roach rush. But no, the same 4 gate all-in from beta is still here with us today -- BECAUSE IT"S SO RIDICULOUSLY STRONG. All I want is one change -- make gateway to warpgate transformation take 30-40 seconds. I bet you this will not only fix ZvP but also PvP where going robotics against 4 gate won't be suicide. | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On March 24 2011 11:07 Pandain wrote: 4 gate is one of those semi cheeses, semi allins. Definitely not equivalent to a dt rush(where what can you fall back on if your opponent has detection) or a two gate proxy. If your dt rush fails, you can tech to archons  | ||
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FXOTheoRy
United States519 Posts
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parn
France296 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
On March 24 2011 11:45 parn wrote: I've always wondered, is it "4 GATE" or "4 GATES"? It is the "4 warpgate rush"; warpgate->gate; therefore, it is the "4 gate" | ||
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On March 24 2011 11:08 happyft wrote: love this rant. Seriously, don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous that toss in the GSL and other prominent tourneys are STILL winning with 4 gate? It's not like you see 3 rax all-in as a common strategy, or 7 roach rush. But no, the same 4 gate all-in from beta is still here with us today -- BECAUSE IT"S SO RIDICULOUSLY STRONG. All I want is one change -- make gateway to warpgate transformation take 30-40 seconds. I bet you this will not only fix ZvP but also PvP where going robotics against 4 gate won't be suicide. To be honest with you I don't think that's a good change. It hurts Protoss more than it helps Zerg. If we couldn't produce any gateway units for 30-40 seconds I think we'd die to a lot more stupid one base timings which I thought we were trying to get rid of. zerg would even have some stupid stuff that would work on Protoss and while a lot of disgruntled zerg players will look at that and go "yeah that sounds great, a stupid all-in that will work ON THEIR safe play!" for revenge reasons it just isn't good for the game and is the kind of thing we want to eliminate. As for it fixing PvP, maybe, but I can see it working the other way too. Warpgates literally make stuff faster than gateways so I can see it being possible that the 4gater would be able to do his timing attack and disallow the roboing player to make his warpgates, meaning the 4gater would be producing them much much more quickly. Or worse the rush could hit while the gates were still transforming. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
On March 24 2011 11:27 tekushikume wrote: Is your character name GenX? Yes it is. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Bub
United States3518 Posts
On March 24 2011 09:10 da_head wrote: try massing lings and squeezing in +1. that usually works vs me haha but the I don't do it often. | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On March 24 2011 11:08 happyft wrote: love this rant. Seriously, don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous that toss in the GSL and other prominent tourneys are STILL winning with 4 gate? It's not like you see 3 rax all-in as a common strategy, or 7 roach rush. But no, the same 4 gate all-in from beta is still here with us today -- BECAUSE IT"S SO RIDICULOUSLY STRONG. All I want is one change -- make gateway to warpgate transformation take 30-40 seconds. I bet you this will not only fix ZvP but also PvP where going robotics against 4 gate won't be suicide. You do realize that games that get won with 4gate are (in non PvP matchups) never blind 4gates and rely on mindgames in some what, and (in PvP) are part of mindgames and implied aggression? It's not 'hurrr attack' by any means if you want it to work. | ||
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FXOTheoRy
United States519 Posts
I apologize for 4 gating you. | ||
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nullmind
1303 Posts
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
Its fine. | ||
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ryndaris
263 Posts
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