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I HATE 4 GATE - Page 4

Blogs > GenesisX
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
March 24 2011 02:02 GMT
#61
On March 24 2011 10:32 101toss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 10:31 Wolf wrote:
People really need to learn what cheese is.

I didn't know standard play was cheese


It isn't. It just annoys me that people think it is.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
March 24 2011 02:07 GMT
#62
On March 24 2011 11:02 Wolf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 10:32 101toss wrote:
On March 24 2011 10:31 Wolf wrote:
People really need to learn what cheese is.

I didn't know standard play was cheese


It isn't. It just annoys me that people think it is.


Eh it actually is in a way.
Cheese is something which, if discovered, you are way behind, or even lose. I think we can definitely agree that falls to 4 gate. However 4 gate is unique in the regards that even if it fails your not at a 100% losing position, just behind. There are even 4 gate expands you can do if found out.

However I would say for the most part 4 gate is a cheese. If your opponent knows your 4 gating, he will win 90% of the time.. It's about the uncertainty that makes 4 gate so strong.

4 gate is one of those semi cheeses, semi allins. Definitely not equivalent to a dt rush(where what can you fall back on if your opponent has detection) or a two gate proxy.

However, are you saying in the regards that if scouted its still hard to stop? While true somewhat, if scouted early enough and he doesn't cancel( as in just as they're finishing) i would say you still have a good chance of holding it off.

This topic definitely is a noteworthy debate on its own, but keep in mind that what you think is annoying is what others believe is true.

happyft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States470 Posts
March 24 2011 02:08 GMT
#63
love this rant.

Seriously, don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous that toss in the GSL and other prominent tourneys are STILL winning with 4 gate? It's not like you see 3 rax all-in as a common strategy, or 7 roach rush. But no, the same 4 gate all-in from beta is still here with us today -- BECAUSE IT"S SO RIDICULOUSLY STRONG.

All I want is one change -- make gateway to warpgate transformation take 30-40 seconds. I bet you this will not only fix ZvP but also PvP where going robotics against 4 gate won't be suicide.
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
March 24 2011 02:16 GMT
#64
On March 24 2011 11:07 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 11:02 Wolf wrote:
On March 24 2011 10:32 101toss wrote:
On March 24 2011 10:31 Wolf wrote:
People really need to learn what cheese is.

I didn't know standard play was cheese


It isn't. It just annoys me that people think it is.


4 gate is one of those semi cheeses, semi allins. Definitely not equivalent to a dt rush(where what can you fall back on if your opponent has detection) or a two gate proxy.

If your dt rush fails, you can tech to archons
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
FXOTheoRy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States519 Posts
March 24 2011 02:27 GMT
#65
Is your character name GenX?
oyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoy
parn
Profile Joined December 2010
France296 Posts
March 24 2011 02:45 GMT
#66
I've always wondered, is it "4 GATE" or "4 GATES"?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
March 24 2011 02:48 GMT
#67
On March 24 2011 11:45 parn wrote:
I've always wondered, is it "4 GATE" or "4 GATES"?

It is the "4 warpgate rush"; warpgate->gate; therefore, it is the "4 gate"
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
March 24 2011 03:06 GMT
#68
On March 24 2011 11:08 happyft wrote:
love this rant.

Seriously, don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous that toss in the GSL and other prominent tourneys are STILL winning with 4 gate? It's not like you see 3 rax all-in as a common strategy, or 7 roach rush. But no, the same 4 gate all-in from beta is still here with us today -- BECAUSE IT"S SO RIDICULOUSLY STRONG.

All I want is one change -- make gateway to warpgate transformation take 30-40 seconds. I bet you this will not only fix ZvP but also PvP where going robotics against 4 gate won't be suicide.


To be honest with you I don't think that's a good change. It hurts Protoss more than it helps Zerg. If we couldn't produce any gateway units for 30-40 seconds I think we'd die to a lot more stupid one base timings which I thought we were trying to get rid of. zerg would even have some stupid stuff that would work on Protoss and while a lot of disgruntled zerg players will look at that and go "yeah that sounds great, a stupid all-in that will work ON THEIR safe play!" for revenge reasons it just isn't good for the game and is the kind of thing we want to eliminate.

As for it fixing PvP, maybe, but I can see it working the other way too. Warpgates literally make stuff faster than gateways so I can see it being possible that the 4gater would be able to do his timing attack and disallow the roboing player to make his warpgates, meaning the 4gater would be producing them much much more quickly. Or worse the rush could hit while the gates were still transforming.
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
March 24 2011 04:23 GMT
#69
aw no one liked my rap? :\
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
March 24 2011 05:25 GMT
#70
On March 24 2011 11:27 tekushikume wrote:
Is your character name GenX?


Yes it is.
133 221 333 123 111
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
March 24 2011 06:24 GMT
#71
People who argue that 4gate is standard are friggin' retarded. It's not standard by any means.
Bub
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States3518 Posts
March 24 2011 06:33 GMT
#72
On March 24 2011 09:10 da_head wrote:
try massing lings and squeezing in +1.


that usually works vs me haha but the I don't do it often.
XK ßubonic
Dhalphir
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1305 Posts
March 24 2011 07:50 GMT
#73
They need to buff normal gateway production and push warpgate further back in the tech tree. Put it in the Twilight Council. That provides added incentive to go something other than robo-tech, and instantly makes the 4gate impossible.
Supporting TypeII Gaming - www.typeii.net - TypeReaL, TypePhoeNix, TypeSuN, TypeDBS!!
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
March 24 2011 08:17 GMT
#74
On March 24 2011 11:08 happyft wrote:
love this rant.

Seriously, don't you guys think it's a little ridiculous that toss in the GSL and other prominent tourneys are STILL winning with 4 gate? It's not like you see 3 rax all-in as a common strategy, or 7 roach rush. But no, the same 4 gate all-in from beta is still here with us today -- BECAUSE IT"S SO RIDICULOUSLY STRONG.

All I want is one change -- make gateway to warpgate transformation take 30-40 seconds. I bet you this will not only fix ZvP but also PvP where going robotics against 4 gate won't be suicide.

You do realize that games that get won with 4gate are (in non PvP matchups) never blind 4gates and rely on mindgames in some what, and (in PvP) are part of mindgames and implied aggression?

It's not 'hurrr attack' by any means if you want it to work.
FXOTheoRy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States519 Posts
March 24 2011 19:14 GMT
#75
On March 24 2011 14:25 GenesisX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 11:27 tekushikume wrote:
Is your character name GenX?


Yes it is.


I apologize for 4 gating you.
oyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoy
nullmind
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
1303 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-24 19:26:59
March 24 2011 19:26 GMT
#76
4 Gate is easy to execute and it's an effective strategy at lower levels so why stop? All 4 gates are not the same. I played about 100 4 gate rush in a row and I realized not only my 4 gate timing was better and I was executing it much better, it improved my game overall. I started noticing build times and opponent timings. I personally think it's a great way to improve toss players mechanics. Now that I mastered 4 gating and noticing it not working too well at higher levels, I usually 2 gate expand against zerg and I'm much more comfortable with zerg's timings that I learned from all the 4 gates. I think every toss should master 4 gate until they can hit about 3500 master and then when they are comfortable with the build order, they can start new build orders like 2 gate expand against P and Z. The transition worked really well for me.
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
March 24 2011 19:56 GMT
#77
On March 25 2011 04:14 tekushikume wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 14:25 GenesisX wrote:
On March 24 2011 11:27 tekushikume wrote:
Is your character name GenX?


Yes it is.


I apologize for 4 gating you.


Its fine.
133 221 333 123 111
ryndaris
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
263 Posts
March 24 2011 20:23 GMT
#78
Funny, I play P and hate 4gate too. Especially in PvZ... I get raped by ling roach pretty bad whenever I attempt it (which is not often, but still.)
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