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I HATE 4 GATE - Page 2

Blogs > GenesisX
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
March 24 2011 00:11 GMT
#21
I like the word cheese for cannon rushes and proxy buildings and stuff! Coincidentally those are just builds that ballers do when they wanna show off that they're badass. 8/9/9 proxy gates is like the SC2 equivalent of drivin a sweet old refurbished camaro. Zerg players don't complain about this stuff but it's only because they're too impressed by the style of it all to care when they lose.
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
March 24 2011 00:11 GMT
#22
Your problem is that you are over producing drones. Start making lings sooner.
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
March 24 2011 00:12 GMT
#23
On March 24 2011 08:49 kaisr wrote:

Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 08:43 GenesisX wrote:
I don't have the production capability to stop it even with DOUBLE the workers.


yeh this is exactly your problem... you're supposed to stop at like 21 drones if u know a 4g is coming and just build units from there on


What I mean is that even with double the workers and an expansion I still can't stop it
133 221 333 123 111
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
March 24 2011 00:13 GMT
#24
14 gas, 15 pool, 14 extractor, 16 evo. Set 3 workers to gas to 100 and then remove 2. At 100 gas get +1 melee attack. Expand as usual at 21. Make spine crawlers at natural and start a spine in main. Move spine to ramp or natural. Next 100 gas use for speed. Put 2 workers back on gas if you need speed faster (M boost). Mass drones or mass lings if rush is coming.

3 spines should be enough with the +1 slow lings to stop 4 gate. Good luck.
Mindflow
Profile Joined November 2010
Korea (South)320 Posts
March 24 2011 00:14 GMT
#25
On March 24 2011 09:06 FODDER~ wrote:
Show nested quote +

Turgid:

I'm a Protoss player in PvZ. What builds are not cheesy or abusive to you, angry zerg? I understand that you think any warpgate timing attack is cheese, and that dark templar is cheese, and stargate tech is cheese, and I bet you're probably not too happy about it if I decide to play defensively on 3 bases and end up with a big colossus army. So tell me what builds I'm allowed to do.


Turgid you are a hero. I've finally realized just how silly the word cheese is after that insanely sarcastic remark!


Believe it or not protoss in its current state vs the other two races is imba..... (Thats why i rerolled to Toss, PvZ is almost funny at times late game.)
TsoBadGuy
Profile Joined April 2010
United States221 Posts
March 24 2011 00:18 GMT
#26
I think all zergs can agree one gate play is fair.

Look, obviously PvZ isn't in the best shape, but at the same time, protoss should play like protoss and not zerg. Meaning, do protoss have stronger macro then zerg? No. Stronger timing attacks? Yes. You can't expect Protoss to abandon the natural advantage they have to pleasing some macro-junkie zerg. Especially when you think our tactics reflect negatively on our skill. I can't count the times I've moved my army back and forth, used the zergs intel against him for 15 minutes, scouted his progress with hallucinations. --"All you did was A move."-- and I laugh, because if you are truly that blind to the subtleties in my play you earned your loss wholly.

Just make sure you take into account all the little things in your opponents play before you label him a condemnable 1amover.
Bnet ID: TsoBadGuy Code: 795 Who wants friends? :D
SlapMySalami
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1060 Posts
March 24 2011 00:18 GMT
#27
at about 6:00 if they haven't expanded you need only make units

Greg started making about 20 lings when he has about 1.5-2 bases saturated to either pressure the nexus or so you can hold off whatever shit they try to throw at you if they cancel the nexus
marineking will u huk my bigtt1 ilu
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
March 24 2011 00:22 GMT
#28
On March 24 2011 09:12 GenesisX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 08:49 kaisr wrote:

On March 24 2011 08:43 GenesisX wrote:
I don't have the production capability to stop it even with DOUBLE the workers.


yeh this is exactly your problem... you're supposed to stop at like 21 drones if u know a 4g is coming and just build units from there on


What I mean is that even with double the workers and an expansion I still can't stop it


It's a timing attack. It's designed to hit you before you gain the full benefit of the drones. I typically don't count the expansion as a bonus because at this stage of the game it's not only standard but necessary for the zerg to be a base up, as was true in Brood War as well.
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
MrBob
Profile Joined November 2009
93 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-24 00:29:44
March 24 2011 00:28 GMT
#29
How exactly is a 4 gate hard to scout? Just send a normal timed drone scout if your ovi misses and if he's saving up energy on the nexus before the cyber core finishes it's an obvious 4 gate. Also, just because you lose to 4 gate/3 gate/6 gate doesn't mean they're cheese.
Who can troll the past can troll the future. Who can troll the present can troll the past.
Existential
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia2107 Posts
March 24 2011 00:29 GMT
#30
I think your problem is you're making too many drones if you have 'double' the amount of drones that he has when your opponent is 4gating you.
Jaedong <3 | BW - The first game I ever loved
Rodiel3
Profile Joined March 2011
France1158 Posts
March 24 2011 00:30 GMT
#31
Sunken is your best friend
http://www.youtube.com/user/rodiel3 SCBW FPVOD
Obsolescence
Profile Joined August 2010
United States270 Posts
March 24 2011 00:30 GMT
#32
Warpgate technology is too cheap and too necessary because of the obnoxious boost in productivity per gateway + warp-in-anywhere technology. 50/50 is all it costs to make your warpgates produce at ~1.5 times normal speed and allow you to warp to forward pylons, while OV speed got bumped from 50/50 to 100/100 because it was a "gimme-upgrade" that players always got without thinking about it.

Gimme a break, Blizzard.
It doesn't think. It doesn't feel. It doesn't laugh or cry. All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. -Phyrexian Hulk
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
March 24 2011 00:31 GMT
#33
On March 24 2011 08:48 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2011 08:47 FabledIntegral wrote:
What's ironic is most Zerg players are saying 4gate is ridic easy to stop if you know it's coming. You're probably doing something wrong. Same with 6gate if you know it's coming, although you almost never do.

The problem is the first part - it's very hard to know when it's coming.


Oh I'm aware, but he said "even when I know it's coming."
MonsieurGrimm
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada2441 Posts
March 24 2011 00:33 GMT
#34
On March 24 2011 09:08 nArAnjO wrote:
erm, just get a bunch of lurkers

If only
"60% of the time, it works - every time" - Brian Fantana on Double Reactors All The Way // "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
Weasel-
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada1556 Posts
March 24 2011 00:33 GMT
#35
Yeah it's absolutely completely unstoppable ZvP, which is why it's done every single game you see. All those tosses in GSL? They just do those other 3gate sentry expand builds and the like for show because they know they'd win with a 4gate anyway. Why bother 4gating if you know you're gonna win right? Just takes out all the excitement.
Cramsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1100 Posts
March 24 2011 00:38 GMT
#36
I think it's frustrating as well. As a gold T player I'm told to always make workers but now I've seen people say to stop when the P hasn't expanded? wont that just kill my economy?
"give me 20 minutes and I'll make them quiet" - MVP
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
March 24 2011 00:42 GMT
#37
I'll give you an answer to your problem that makes as much sense as your post.

Go mass muta.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
RivalryRedux
Profile Joined July 2009
United States173 Posts
March 24 2011 00:43 GMT
#38
On March 24 2011 09:38 Cramsy wrote:
I think it's frustrating as well. As a gold T player I'm told to always make workers but now I've seen people say to stop when the P hasn't expanded? wont that just kill my economy?


They're talking about zerg, not terran.
blahman3344
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2015 Posts
March 24 2011 00:45 GMT
#39
On March 24 2011 09:38 Cramsy wrote:
I think it's frustrating as well. As a gold T player I'm told to always make workers but now I've seen people say to stop when the P hasn't expanded? wont that just kill my economy?


Well against a 1-base toss, if you can hold off the 4 gate, you'll be in much better shape than the Toss because despite being on even bases, the Terran will usually be ahead. A 4-gating toss usually sacrifices heavily on the eco, so if you sacrifice a bit on your own eco to stop it, then you will come out in much better shape than the toss.
I like haikus and / I can not lie. You other / brothers can't deny
krok(obs)
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany264 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-24 00:54:02
March 24 2011 00:46 GMT
#40
this will most likely help you so pay attention to what im saying.
havent lost to 4gate in a long time. heres what i do:

1. it helps of you know its coming, try scouting it, try to have lings patrolling the perimeter of your base. check spaces in which youd think it would be convenient for a toss player to place pylons.
if you see a probe just idling around near your base, expect the 4gate to hit. next step see pt. 3

2. as stated before, it helps to see it coming. steal his gas. go ahead. chances are hell try to 4gate you. at least youll know its coming,

3. take your drones off gas. you dont need it to hold off a 4gate. in fact, if youre unsure about his gameplan and feel unsafe, do it anyway.

4. stop droning immediately and start pumping lings. dont try to go for roaches or anything else.
roach warren will cost you, roaches take too much supply. take too long to come out.

5. try to threaten runbys. take a handful of lings and try to get them into your opponents base. hell have to divert troops there.

6. dont let him build momentum. keep pumping lings and try to isolate reinforcements, either from his main or from his pylon. try to take out the pylon. or the probe.

7. sort of a last ditch measure: if you really, really really dont wanna get 4gated. stop pumping drones at around 20 workers. start pumping lings instead and take your drones off gas. dont stop pumping them off 2bases with a queen each. that way youll definitely be safe from a normal 4gate, unless hes going for dts or air in whcih case you should have the mins to get out queens or spores.
if you read him wrong and he is going for a 3gate expand you can easily deny him by using your mass lings to keep him in his base. this has a very allinish flavor to it tho and you should definitely start teching up after having pushed back your opponent into his base.

hope this helps you!
http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/481074/krok
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