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So I've been playing SC2 since launch, and I didn't play SC/BW (besides customs as a kid). I wanted to get back into video games after about 4 years of not playing, despite being a pretty hardcore gamer most of my teens/young life. SC2 was one of the only games I wasn't naturally good at (well, an assumption I drew from not having a clue how to play SC/BW and getting crushed the few times I tried). I didnt know anything about sites, casting, or even pro games.
I know watch Day9, lots of sc2casts, and know most players both foreign and korean. I enjoy this game, in a twisted way, because every other game out there takes 2 days, at most, and I'm basically the best at it. I'm one of those half asians good at everything they try (which can be for better or worse).
Now, the point of this blog is that I play Random, for the longest time. i figured my problems were issues every race has - making workers, not getting blocked, keeping up macro, scouting - so it really doesn't matter what race I play, as anything beyond the basics is beyond the scope of my skill level, even at where I'm now, Platinum. I would easily be Diamond if I picked a race, but a 2 month hiatus due to time in Africa and no computer has put be far back, even farther back.
I want to pick a race now, despite how much fun Random is. My basic summation of the races is as follows:
Protoss: Easiest race to play, one of the most boring as well. It would not be fun to play them, although my win rate would be the highest. My opinion is that Protoss doesn't take skill to really win with.
Terran: One of the hardest races to play, to keep up with all the macro actually, imo, takes more speed than other races. They have the most options, which can also be a negative, as the number of choices in both units and macro (rax/fact/port and when/what to techlab/reactor) can be just as confusing as it can be fun. Definately the most fleshed out race right now.
Zerg: The funnest race, but probably the least fleshed out. It's a bit dissapointing that every single game is ZvZ= Speedling battle, then roach battle, then muta battle, ZvP is Roach/Hydra/Corrupter into Broodlord/Infestor and ZvT is Ling/Bling/Muta into Ultra.
Now, I am choosing Zerg - I think. Do I think this game is balanced? Yes, for the most part. I do think ZvP is somewhat broken, being only roach/hydra, with both people doing little harassment for the most part due to how Protoss plays and how undynamic roach/hydra is, and that Protoss seems to just own Zerg every time unless at the pro level. It just sucks trying to play Zerg now, and I literally have a 90% loss to Protoss, no joke. I can hold 4 gate, which is always predictable based on players names and how they say gl hf but I'll lose if I misjudge that, not to mention I may lose to the 4 gate anyways, and that's about all my wins at all. I always lose to protoss, it sucks. Not to mention how bullshit Terran 2 base timings as wella s P 2 base or 1 base is against Zerg.
I think this game has a long way to go, but it is very promising. I love watching pro games, and I do think it's most part, balanced. It just seems it could be fleshed out more - it's odd to note that Zerg is so susceptible to so many timing attacks, but there are zero Zerg timings that really are feared by opponents.
Anyways thats just where my head is at, I was wondering if any other Random into Zerg players, or people who played other races then switched felt. Zerg is just so much harder it's ridiculous - and I understand its supposed to be like that, but just wondering what others felt.
 
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
I think this
On March 16 2011 21:42 Belial88 wrote:
Protoss: Easiest race to play, one of the most boring as well. It would not be fun to play them, although my win rate would be the highest. My opinion is that Protoss doesn't take skill to really win with.
Terran: One of the hardest races to play, to keep up with all the macro actually, imo, takes more speed than other races.
...is going to de-rail this thread :/
I have 2 accounts so I play protoss on one and zerg on the other. I play protoss as my main so I find zerg to be slightly more difficult, but I've never really attributed a loss to a problem with the race. Especially if I lose a ZvP, I can think about it from the protoss perspective to see how I could have done better as the zerg.
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On March 16 2011 21:51 Sayle wrote:I think this Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 21:42 Belial88 wrote:
Protoss: Easiest race to play, one of the most boring as well. It would not be fun to play them, although my win rate would be the highest. My opinion is that Protoss doesn't take skill to really win with.
Terran: One of the hardest races to play, to keep up with all the macro actually, imo, takes more speed than other races. ...is going to de-rail this thread :/ I have 2 accounts so I play protoss on one and zerg on the other. I play protoss as my main so I find zerg to be slightly more difficult, but I've never really attributed a loss to a problem with the race. Especially if I lose a ZvP, I can think about it from the protoss perspective to see how I could have done better as the zerg.
Eh, people have been saying that Protoss is the ez race since the earliest days of BW. Just mass up goons and zealots, then 1a2a3a your way to victory, as the old-timers use to say.
I used to play Terran in BW, then temporarily switched to Protoss in SC2. Afterwards, I switched to Random where I then found my strength to be in Zerg and my weakness to be in Terran, ironically.
For people below high Diamond and Masters, mechanics and game sense are way more important than balance. Don't listen to all the Zerg QQers. Don't even listen to your own subconscious QQ. Unless you are TLO, every loss is due to a snowball of mistakes. Playing Zerg may be hard mode, but it's not insurmountable and it sounds like you might have a ton of fun along the way.
Also
Zerg: The funnest race, but probably the least fleshed out. It's a bit dissapointing that every single game is ZvZ= Speedling battle, then roach battle, then muta battle.
If you don't like SC2 ZvZ, then you would hate BW ZvZ even more since 98% of pro BW games are won through either speedling battles or Muta+scourge air battles, which is kinda the reason why many people joke that ZvZ in BW is ZvZzzzzzzzz. Fortunately, BW Hive tech is extremely deep, though unexplored, and I think there are a lot of lesser known ZvZ builds in SC2 that are worth trying out
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Zerg Play is unexplored right now.
Don't be mistaken that 'standard' would mean 'only way' of playing something.
Why it's unexplored? cause in my opinion Zerg treads such a fine line b/n living/dying to timing pushes that it has not allowed players enough time/chance to experiment around. That and we're a reactive race thus not being able to come up with concrete BO to follow.
Examples like Skipping mutas for Infestors showcased on MrBitter's stream. JulyZerg's Hyper Agression style (only droning up enough and slowly expanding out while keeping up constant harass/pressure).
Then the ling/bling +ups style that aquanda popularize on Bitter's Koth.
New styles are there. Just have to be brave/persistent enough to experiment with them and make them work.
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I recently started playing again... never again will I race pick. Game's 10x more fun. But as someone who played zerg in sc/bw, I still do not care for them. It's a totally different playstyle
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On March 16 2011 21:51 Sayle wrote:I think this Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 21:42 Belial88 wrote:
Protoss: Easiest race to play, one of the most boring as well. It would not be fun to play them, although my win rate would be the highest. My opinion is that Protoss doesn't take skill to really win with.
Terran: One of the hardest races to play, to keep up with all the macro actually, imo, takes more speed than other races. ...is going to de-rail this thread :/ I have 2 accounts so I play protoss on one and zerg on the other. I play protoss as my main so I find zerg to be slightly more difficult, but I've never really attributed a loss to a problem with the race. Especially if I lose a ZvP, I can think about it from the protoss perspective to see how I could have done better as the zerg.
It's just my opinion, and its just a rant. Things like Warp gates does make macro for protoss a bit harder, but at Diamond and less level of play, just watching your base, warping units, and a moving when needed via minimap is more important than microing.
For people below high Diamond and Masters, mechanics and game sense are way more important than balance. Don't listen to all the Zerg QQers. Don't even listen to your own subconscious QQ. Unless you are TLO, every loss is due to a snowball of mistakes. Playing Zerg may be hard mode, but it's not insurmountable and it sounds like you might have a ton of fun along the way.
i don't think balance is the issue in this game, I think it's slightly not fleshed out when Zerg just does roach to roach/hydra corupter vs p and ling/bling muta vs T. Now, there are 2 more expansions coming out, Blizz has said Zerg isn't even done, so I'm really not worried at all. This is a great game, and it's very balanced. I just wanted to vent that there's some truth to the idea that Zerg vs Protoss, Zerg is a lot harder to play and it's kind of a stale matchup. I almost feel 99% of Protoss is a cheese of some sort (play Ladder lol, I can tell exactly what build people do 99% of the time just by how they say gl hf and how they talk, ie in caps, if they are friendly, if they dont respond, if they say it weird, etc). while Zerg has to play a tough game. theres just this desperation in playing Zerg unlike the other races.
But it is fun. ZvZ is a thin line between sheer break-your-nerves intensity, literally, and absolute back and forth fun (i dont know if the matchup is absolutely broken or absolutely perfect!), and it's becoming more and more fun, while ZvT, while at times can be frustrating with mass drop or 2 base push, is one of the most rewarding and fun matchups.
Why it's unexplored? cause in my opinion Zerg treads such a fine line b/n living/dying to timing pushes that it has not allowed players enough time/chance to experiment around. That and we're a reactive race thus not being able to come up with concrete BO to follow.
I agree the metagame is changing radically all the time. When first playing, I didn't really grasp this. But now, you see hellions effective all game long as well as in TvT (shockingly) and P, you see mech play, ultralisks are becoming amazing, etc. I definately agree with you.
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Calgary26003 Posts
Why don't people play MutaLing in ZvP? I do it 100% and it seems to work fine. When I play RoachHydra I have problems, but MutaLing is gr8.
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I actually find zerg easier to play than protoss- mechanically it may be more difficult but all the match-ups are pretty easy to understand. I find PvP and PvT confusing to play.
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@chill...because of infestors.
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On March 16 2011 22:05 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 21:51 Sayle wrote:I think this On March 16 2011 21:42 Belial88 wrote:
Protoss: Easiest race to play, one of the most boring as well. It would not be fun to play them, although my win rate would be the highest. My opinion is that Protoss doesn't take skill to really win with.
Terran: One of the hardest races to play, to keep up with all the macro actually, imo, takes more speed than other races. ...is going to de-rail this thread :/ I have 2 accounts so I play protoss on one and zerg on the other. I play protoss as my main so I find zerg to be slightly more difficult, but I've never really attributed a loss to a problem with the race. Especially if I lose a ZvP, I can think about it from the protoss perspective to see how I could have done better as the zerg. Eh, people have been saying that Protoss is the ez race since the earliest days of BW. Just mass up goons and zealots, then 1a2a3a your way to victory, as the old-timers use to say. I used to play Terran in BW, then temporarily switched to Protoss in SC2. Afterwards, I switched to Random where I then found my strength to be in Zerg and my weakness to be in Terran, ironically. For people below high Diamond and Masters, mechanics and game sense are way more important than balance. Don't listen to all the Zerg QQers. Don't even listen to your own subconscious QQ. Unless you are TLO, every loss is due to a snowball of mistakes. Playing Zerg may be hard mode, but it's not insurmountable and it sounds like you might have a ton of fun along the way. Also Show nested quote +Zerg: The funnest race, but probably the least fleshed out. It's a bit dissapointing that every single game is ZvZ= Speedling battle, then roach battle, then muta battle. If you don't like SC2 ZvZ, then you would hate BW ZvZ even more since 98% of pro BW games are won through either speedling battles or Muta+scourge air battles, which is kinda the reason why many people joke that ZvZ in BW is ZvZzzzzzzzz. Fortunately, BW Hive tech is extremely deep, though unexplored, and I think there are a lot of lesser known ZvZ builds in SC2 that are worth trying out
Lol yea TvP in brood war was such a joke >_>. I remember at D ranks I used to beat more protoss offracing as zerg than I did playing terran lol
On March 16 2011 22:49 Chill wrote:
Why don't people play MutaLing in ZvP? I do it 100% and it seems to work fine. When I play RoachHydra I have problems, but MutaLing is gr8.
Whenever I play muta ling I have a really hard time dealing with phoenix X_x. How do u deal with them? It seems like once theres 5 or 6 phoenix out with his main army my mutas are worthless cause u can move shot micro
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On March 16 2011 22:49 Chill wrote:
Why don't people play MutaLing in ZvP? I do it 100% and it seems to work fine. When I play RoachHydra I have problems, but MutaLing is gr8.
Its because all the cool kids are doing it 
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Eh, people have been saying that Protoss is the ez race since the earliest days of BW. Just mass up goons and zealots, then 1a2a3a your way to victory, as the old-timers use to say.
No, that's only since the age of Bisu. Before Bisu there were hundred of threads of Protoss players complaining they couldn't beat Zerg (since FE was an alternative strategy at best, rather than something fully fleshed out).
It used to be common knowledge that at the pro gaming level that Protoss was a little weak and the hardest race to win with. You'd get a little special feeling like you were playing the underdog race if you were a Protoss at that time (although at the lower levels it's never been about race balance).
(PvT was also pretty hard back in the day when most maps were designed with Terran in mind. Now that Terran have to learn how to play without significant terrain advantages, they like to complain a little more but that match up is pretty balanced as I see it).
JUST GIVING YOU SOME HISTORY.
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On March 16 2011 23:08 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +Eh, people have been saying that Protoss is the ez race since the earliest days of BW. Just mass up goons and zealots, then 1a2a3a your way to victory, as the old-timers use to say. No, that's only since the age of Bisu. Before Bisu there were hundred of threads of Protoss players complaining they couldn't beat Zerg (since FE was an alternative strategy at best, rather than something fully fleshed out). It used to be common knowledge that at the pro gaming level that Protoss was a little weak and the hardest race to win with. You'd get a little special feeling like you were playing the underdog race if you were a Protoss at that time (although at the lower levels it's never been about race balance). JUST GIVING YOU SOME HISTORY.
Perhaps, though I was thinking more about the early, EARLY days of BW, perhaps even before Boxer's time and definitely before the final balance changes. I guess I also wasn't really considering the pro level in the post, since it seems that at lower levels it's hard to beat the hardy units of the Protoss. I guess saying "since the earlies days" wasn't exactly the best word choice to use.
Nevertheless, massing goons and zealots is still an effective strat in pub BGH and Money Map games, and perhaps even in some lower level pub 1v1s.
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Stick to random. Why pick a race just to up in diamond. When you can have more fun playing random, and you will be more skilled and have more game knowledge in the long run.
I play terran and protos at platinum level (my Zerg is so bad). And I enjoy it both races, and the fact that you feel the pain when you get crushed by a build, and then you can try the same build as the other race next time you are in that matchup is so rewarding.
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On March 16 2011 22:49 Chill wrote:
Why don't people play MutaLing in ZvP? I do it 100% and it seems to work fine. When I play RoachHydra I have problems, but MutaLing is gr8.
Muta/ling straight up has some weaknesses in my experience, specifically to certain timing pushes, fast 3rds defended by good control, and large mass gateway pushes. I do try to always put ZvP in a situation where I can make mutas though (it just doesn't always happen).
@me_viet MrBitter's Infestor play is as old as beta. It's just come back into popularity as Terrans skewed more and more towards marine heavy compositions (and a well written guide).
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On March 16 2011 23:03 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
@chill...because of infestors.
I hate it when the protoss make infestors agaisnt me in ZvP, always catches me offguard.
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Wow, thank god a lot of people agree with me that Protoss on SC2 is ridiculously boring.
I've been playing Protoss since SC:BW, but I seriously hate playing Protoss in SC2.
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@eviltomahawk:
TvT -> T_T
Hahaha, sorry but I had to. And at any rate peeps, random's the best race cuz you can stay more flexible and be in-touch with all 9 possible matchups instead of 3. :D
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I started T, switched to P, and did really well, but got tired of it and just switched to Z. I'm still screwing around with it in team games, customs, and vs AI to get the feel down, but it definitely has a "back against the wall" feel most of the time vs "equal" opponents. Stick through it though.
A few random "ez win" tips I do that have been decently successful vs somewhat less than pros.
1. SCOUTING. Always keep a ling at his ramp/choke, a ling on the corners of the map to spot for medivacs/dropships/proxies, and a ling or two at the xelnagas. SOOOOO critical, imo. Knowing when an attack is going to show up, or what his army comp is makes it so easy to gameplan.
2. Do random crap. Seriously. I won a recent game with a funky build I haven't seen anyone do yet. I FE'ed, but didn't build a single drone after my initial ~24. Just two hatches/two queens pumping nothing but speedlings. My opponent scouted my FE, and considered himself safe, dropping a expo himself. Once I had ~70 speedlings, I 1a'ed them into his expo, simultaneously switching production over completely to drones, threw up fast gas at my expo, dropped a spire, and saved up larvae, making sure to stay far ahead in OL. I raped his puny army, and forced his expo off while he turtled. When my spire popped I had about 15-20 larvae and 1500/1000 banked, so I dropped 10 muta and started pumping more lings, simultaneously expanding. I kept harassing him and kept switching out lings for muta until I had ~50 muta out, at which point I 1a'ed them into the back of his base and GG'ed him. He rage quit, calling zerp op.
Don't follow the current pro "metagames", because by doing so, you're just allowing your opponent to counter you purely off what he has seen. If you do random crap, then he has to figure out the timings and counters himself, which 99% of random ladder players are apparently utterly incapable of doing.
3. Harass the crap out of your opponent. Even if you are doing no meaningful damage, it keeps his attention somewhere other than macroing and makes him hesitant to push out of his base. Sure, knocking out a turtling T is difficult, but it's way easier than dealing with a 3 base terran in late-game.
4. Don't wait for 200/200....EVER. This isn't simcity with a happy ending, and zerg armies only get worse at higher numbers. You want to be staying around 160 active supply at all times, and you want to be keeping your opponent at ~120. 160 vs 120 is a good fight you'll win most of the time. 200 vs 160 isn't.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
"I'm one of those half asians good at everything they try (which can be for better or worse)."
Are you serious? Pull your head out of your ass. You would get laughed at if you said that to anyone IRL.
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EPT
