|
First I agree with Chef and Murderotica. Protoss has had a tradition of being underrepresented and the underdog in the top individual BW leagues. Also OP you shouldn't claim to be good at everything you try without first being a polymath like Leonardo da Vinci... there is far too much to try to ever fulfill such a claim. Even in gaming, you almost never see champions holding titles in multiple competitive games simultaneously.
In choosing a race first establish what criteria are relevant to you, and weight their importance. If you're competitive, this is simple: victory is the only criteria. Choose whichever race you judge as maximizing your ability to win.
On race balance: I think that prevailing trends in GSL seem to suggest that Terran and Zerg have a tough time maintaining a stable, long-term plan effective against Protoss. I also think such trends have little relevance for anyone not prepared to become a professional player.
|
Why don't people play MutaLing in ZvP? I do it 100% and it seems to work fine. When I play RoachHydra I have problems, but MutaLing is gr8.
Show a replay, I wouldn't mind watching it. Certain Zerg units get owned too hardcore by Protoss units, namely Zealot vs Zergling and Colosi vs Ling/Hydra. Banelings have no use, which is too bad because they are just the most awesome unit (although I hear on korean servers this is changing?) and mutas aren't partcularly useful because Protoss units just deal so much damage that you really need core fighting units - unlike in ZvT where you can harass with mutas and have just a couple crutch banelings to win.
I actually find zerg easier to play than protoss- mechanically it may be more difficult but all the match-ups are pretty easy to understand. I find PvP and PvT confusing to play.
I feel mirror matchups are just knowing how your race plays, very, very well, and my mirror matchups are my strongest. PvP, as its current metagame state as well as a comfortable place for non-pros, is 4gate (3gate blink as a slight variation of the same idea) followed up by Colossus wars (as templar don't do enough damage, they just do less damage over a greater area - dps they are same but this means templar better against weak, light units and colossi better against protoss units/beefier units) - which is generally comes down to just whoever has the most colossi, or if the opponent is unaware, whoever focus fires the other persons colossi with his colossi (granted they aren't 1a'd in a ball, which they usually are).
TvT is all about smart siege tank placement and macro.
And ZvZ, like I said, is the speedling battle or lack thereof followed by the roach battle or lack thereof followed by the mutalisk battle.
Whenever I play muta ling I have a really hard time dealing with phoenix X_x. How do u deal with them? It seems like once theres 5 or 6 phoenix out with his main army my mutas are worthless cause u can move shot micro
A few hydras. I think the idea behind ZvP, is that, unlike T's reactor/techlab/ production style, Protoss has to tech very hard for each unit. By the time their Robo, Bay, and Lance is finished, you can have both spire and den. Hydra den actually comes out very, very very fast, so its never too late to throw one down when needed. The problem is the expensve in the hydras themselves.
[quoteStick to random. Why pick a race just to up in diamond. When you can have more fun playing random, and you will be more skilled and have more game knowledge in the long run. ][/quote]
Sorry I wasn't clear - it's not about being in Diamond. It's about just being better in this game and just playing more fleshed out games. Back before I was in Africa for over a month, I knew definately I could pick any race and be a Diamond, but I had fun as Random. i still don't think i've 'recovered' yet but I think it would be more fun for me to pick a race to flesh out than playing random at the moment. Not sure how to look at this, but I feel each match up is so dynamic that playing Terran and learning vT, vP, vZ, is just as 'random' as learning ZvP, TvZ, PvP. Each match-up is just so different, and I feel because of the youth of this game and metagame, each matchup is somewhat stale but I am excited to see that change in expansions as well as in the metagame.
"I'm one of those half asians good at everything they try (which can be for better or worse)."
Are you serious? Pull your head out of your ass. You would get laughed at if you said that to anyone IRL.
If you really have no clue what I'm talking about, maybe you should do that yourself. It isn't a self-ingratiating comment by any means - I think most everyone knows what you are talking about when you say "oh he never has to study and gets straight A's" or "yea he's really good at every video game he picks up, its gay he always beats me". Keep being so political correct, your so fun to the conversation. i don't want this to be derailed by this, and I didn't mean anything too serious by it. No, I didn't hit level 50 in Halo (lvl 49 lol), no I didn't win any championships, no I don't make straight A's. But you UNDERSTAND my comment when I said that, and that's all I meant to convey.
The point is that Starcraft 2 is the one game I wasn't baller at within a week, compared to Counterstrike, Halo, every first person shooter, DDR, Guitar Hero, smash brothers, etc (most of which i never owned). I was never the best in these games, but I was good at them right away. Starcraft 2, on the other hand, I'm still learning the basics.
|
Vatican City State2594 Posts
1. Such claims are just reeking of pompous douche-baggery. Also, it has nothing to do with the main point of your blog, you could have not mentioned how fucking awesome you are at video-games.
2. Mentioning your race is another completely stupid move. It's like you are good at everything BECAUSE you are half-Asian. It's in your blood, you can't do anything about it, you're just so naturally good yo yeaaaaa HIGH FIVE BRAH WOOOO. Right?
3. I think most everyone knows what you are talking about when you say "oh he never has to study and gets straight A's" or "yea he's really good at every video game he picks up, its gay he always beats me"
So... You make this point but later say that you don't make straight A's. Maybe you're not so good at videogames either? Just because you can beat your noob friends IRL or get to a certain level in HALO, does not make you good. It doesn't even necessarily make you competent. To be actually good at a game, you can't be in gold league (rough equivalent of C on ICC, assuming Masters is Olympic?) in SC2, for example. Just because all your friends are silver and you whoop their ass does not make you gosu. This is an analogy for every game you have played. Why? Because you never went to competitions so you don't even know how good you are compared to the best, and in that case, how do you benchmark yourself? In your case, with your omnipresent hubris. Pull your head out of your ass.
P.S. I don't see how anything I said was "PC," considering all I did was say that your stupid assertions were stupid. It's not "PC" to tell people that their race doesn't factor into them thinking they are a god in a certain field (when really they aren't).
EDIT: "This isn't a self ingratiating comment by any means"
LOL
|
^ you're the one being a douchebag. You really have no idea what someone means when they say they are the kind of person that is just naturally good at video games, and that it's usually asian? Ignorant, generalizing of a comment? Yea. But it was just a stupid point, jesus christ some people are so nitpicky and politcally correct.
Anyways, anyone see the recent GSL tournament? God that was so depressing, in the context of this thread.
|
Vatican City State2594 Posts
On March 21 2011 17:03 Belial88 wrote:
Ignorant, generalizing of a comment? Yea.
Okay.
|
if a game is balanced, then racial balance is more of an issue at lower levels of play. i believe it starts to get even at high levels
|
on one hand im very close to picking zerg as a race because ZvZ is fun, and ZvT is fun, although at times its frustrating, and the fun of winning can get repetitive, doesnt really feell ike much gain. But the worst thing about Zerg is ZvP, I just feel so lost and confused on it. He FE'd? Great, I can tech up - but wait, is it a 2 base push or 3 base push? Oh, its not a 2 base all in? I still lose to an early pressure push.
I just can't handle Protoss at all. I can't help but cry imba, but part of it is my incompetence. I have no idea what units to make. Roach/hydra seems to be what people recommend, with corrupters, but mass gateway itself is just impossible to stop (protoss t1 owns Zerg t1 so hard, and hydra takes too long and expensive). Ling gets owned so hard by zealots and forcefield, and baneling is a joke (the only reason zerg can really handle terran at any level). Ugh, I know this is a QQ, but I have no idea how to deal with protoss. If there were like any day9s or guides on it, that'd be awesome. Every pro replay I see of ZvP, the zerg gets steamrolled. It seems to be the rarest match-up to find vods of. I never see Kiwikaki's mass gateway style lose to Zerg - the only games I see protoss win is with stargate openings, or teching too fast. As playing protoss, I have no idea whats the point in teching when i can steamroll Zerg with mass t1.
4 gate is really hard to hold, no lie. It can be held when known it's coming, and you are guaranteed to win, but I gotta say of the 'cheeses'/all-ins, its the hardest to hold (ZvP 4 gate i mean as the hardest situation for any race to defend any push all-in). I know how to hold it off with ease, but I can't think of anything else harder (7rr, 6pool, etc) when known is coming. And 6 gate, I have no idea how anyone holds that. In fact I've never seen a single instance of someone losing with a 6 gate vs Zerg, assuming Zerg doesn't do some ridiculous early aggression that doesn't involve all-inning or a build that would'nt be considered wacky straight away.
|
I've noticed that every single replay I've seen of ZvP, Zerg loses unless the following happens:
1. Protoss opens Stargate (funny because it's supposed to be so powerful, which is true, but the win ratio on it is less than the 100% i see in other PvZ games).
2. Protoss opens FFE and falls to early bust (usually roach or ling runby, rarely baneling). On the flip side, I don't think I've ever seen a Protoss lose if he pulls this off (then again my complaint is I never see protoss lose).
3. Protoss 4 gates and fails (rare to see zerg hold though, Idra loses so much to it, julyzerg did in GSL, and Sen I think holds it the most).
Literally, I'm trying so hard to find a ZvP where Zerg wins and the above conditions aren't met. Just type in "kiwikaki", the king of mass gateway and classic protoss deathball play against Zerg imo, on sc2casts.com. I haven't seen a single game of him losing when he didnt meat the above conditions. And mind you the above conditions aren't crazy conditions, it's like saying "as long as zerg doesnt 6 pool".
Dimaga ZvP? Yep, he loses. Idra never, ever wins in ZvP and always ragequits. In fact, I think the fact I haven't seen Kiwikaki ever lose is a good indicator. Huk even wins all the time.
I hate to be such a QQer, and I know a lot of it is my lack of skill, but come on, hasn't anyone else seen this depressing show of Zerg getting overwhelmingly crushed in ZvP pro replays?
On the other hand, i am not saying it's imba necessarily, as I feel the metagame isn't there. Overlord speed is starting to be seen as a necessity in ZvP. Infestor seems to be a key unit that hasn't been explored yet. Mass upgrade/roach instead of hydras seems to be much more stable, allowing zerg to get a third faster and faster spire/broodlord whereas hydras get owned by colossi and storm, which 2 base allin / 3 base protoss always will get one of, which own them way too hard. the metagame mostly focused on vT matchup, and we are seeing terran not be as hard to deal with anymore.
but yea, Im still looking for a replay of zerg winning in zvp. I'm now watching destiny's stream and searching IMnestea's and dimagas games, 2 players I think are showing a difference in ZvP.
|
Please stop whining, you will never get good at the game with that mindset. Sure you admit that part of the reason you're losing is because of your own gameplay flaws, but 80% of your post contents wreak of QQ. Also stop pretending like you understand high-level play when your own fundamental mechanics at the game are less than average. I've watched your replays before and you're always severely under-droned, scout badly, and have a ton of idle larvae all the time, especially when you attempt to multi-task. Those, among other things.
Maybe you should work on your basic mechanics before you start trying to claim what is imbalanced and what is not. There's no point in trying to understand strategy when you don't have the mechanics to back it up. You keep asking for replays and learning resources when they are in abundance all over TeamLiquid, let alone the internet if you actually try to search for them. Zerg players have it good when it comes to learning resources, especially thanks to MrBitter and his 12 weeks with the pros. All of which are useless to you since you refuse to realize that all your losses have been due to the simple fact that you have bad macro.
|
Reading this thread, it's hard to see why the title "Rants from a random" would be appropriate. It looks more like "Rants of a Zerg" or "ZvP sucks" or something similar. But anyway, here's my 2c.
You say you're in platinum as a random player and that if you picked a race, you'd be diamond easily. Seems to me that if you believe that's true and you're as competitive/winning is as important to you as it seems you should just go ahead and pick the race you believe will net you the most wins.
Reading on, it seems you're of the opinion that Protoss is the easiest to play. So again, you answered your own question... pick protoss and enjoy rolling everyone in diamond. But you did post this thread; which leads me to believe that you want to be told you're wrong. So here's what I'd say you should do: if you've decided to stop randoming, pick the race who's play style appeals to you the most, the one that's the most FUN to play. Not the one that's seems like it's the easiest to win with... the one you will enjoy playing more than the others, be it because you like how the units look, how their macro mechanic works, etc. - the overall feel of the race.
Then forget about winning every game and start playing games in order to learn the race you chose to the fullest in all it's machups. If your absolute focus right from the start is winning every game, you may as well switch races every 2 games or so, whenever one of those "imba" strategies kills you in spite of your astronomical skill. Speaking of skill, let me say this to end... you're in platinum. Platinum is very, very far from playing on a level where game balance is a deciding factor in your games. I play @3k masters and even though I sometimes feel frustrated with particular Z or T strategies, I don't even think about whining imbalance, because I know that I don't play nearly good enough for that to be a major factor.
TL;DR - Forget about balance. Play your chosen race until you hit diamond. Then play it until you hit masters. Then get into the top 200. And have fun doing it... otherwise there's little point in playing a game, is there?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
