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So I've been playing SC2 since launch, and I didn't play SC/BW (besides customs as a kid). I wanted to get back into video games after about 4 years of not playing, despite being a pretty hardcore gamer most of my teens/young life. SC2 was one of the only games I wasn't naturally good at (well, an assumption I drew from not having a clue how to play SC/BW and getting crushed the few times I tried). I didnt know anything about sites, casting, or even pro games.
I know watch Day9, lots of sc2casts, and know most players both foreign and korean. I enjoy this game, in a twisted way, because every other game out there takes 2 days, at most, and I'm basically the best at it. I'm one of those half asians good at everything they try (which can be for better or worse).
Now, the point of this blog is that I play Random, for the longest time. i figured my problems were issues every race has - making workers, not getting blocked, keeping up macro, scouting - so it really doesn't matter what race I play, as anything beyond the basics is beyond the scope of my skill level, even at where I'm now, Platinum. I would easily be Diamond if I picked a race, but a 2 month hiatus due to time in Africa and no computer has put be far back, even farther back.
I want to pick a race now, despite how much fun Random is. My basic summation of the races is as follows:
Protoss: Easiest race to play, one of the most boring as well. It would not be fun to play them, although my win rate would be the highest. My opinion is that Protoss doesn't take skill to really win with.
Terran: One of the hardest races to play, to keep up with all the macro actually, imo, takes more speed than other races. They have the most options, which can also be a negative, as the number of choices in both units and macro (rax/fact/port and when/what to techlab/reactor) can be just as confusing as it can be fun. Definately the most fleshed out race right now.
Zerg: The funnest race, but probably the least fleshed out. It's a bit dissapointing that every single game is ZvZ= Speedling battle, then roach battle, then muta battle, ZvP is Roach/Hydra/Corrupter into Broodlord/Infestor and ZvT is Ling/Bling/Muta into Ultra.
Now, I am choosing Zerg - I think. Do I think this game is balanced? Yes, for the most part. I do think ZvP is somewhat broken, being only roach/hydra, with both people doing little harassment for the most part due to how Protoss plays and how undynamic roach/hydra is, and that Protoss seems to just own Zerg every time unless at the pro level. It just sucks trying to play Zerg now, and I literally have a 90% loss to Protoss, no joke. I can hold 4 gate, which is always predictable based on players names and how they say gl hf but I'll lose if I misjudge that, not to mention I may lose to the 4 gate anyways, and that's about all my wins at all. I always lose to protoss, it sucks. Not to mention how bullshit Terran 2 base timings as wella s P 2 base or 1 base is against Zerg.
I think this game has a long way to go, but it is very promising. I love watching pro games, and I do think it's most part, balanced. It just seems it could be fleshed out more - it's odd to note that Zerg is so susceptible to so many timing attacks, but there are zero Zerg timings that really are feared by opponents.
Anyways thats just where my head is at, I was wondering if any other Random into Zerg players, or people who played other races then switched felt. Zerg is just so much harder it's ridiculous - and I understand its supposed to be like that, but just wondering what others felt.
 
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
I think this
On March 16 2011 21:42 Belial88 wrote:
Protoss: Easiest race to play, one of the most boring as well. It would not be fun to play them, although my win rate would be the highest. My opinion is that Protoss doesn't take skill to really win with.
Terran: One of the hardest races to play, to keep up with all the macro actually, imo, takes more speed than other races.
...is going to de-rail this thread :/
I have 2 accounts so I play protoss on one and zerg on the other. I play protoss as my main so I find zerg to be slightly more difficult, but I've never really attributed a loss to a problem with the race. Especially if I lose a ZvP, I can think about it from the protoss perspective to see how I could have done better as the zerg.
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On March 16 2011 21:51 Sayle wrote:I think this Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 21:42 Belial88 wrote:
Protoss: Easiest race to play, one of the most boring as well. It would not be fun to play them, although my win rate would be the highest. My opinion is that Protoss doesn't take skill to really win with.
Terran: One of the hardest races to play, to keep up with all the macro actually, imo, takes more speed than other races. ...is going to de-rail this thread :/ I have 2 accounts so I play protoss on one and zerg on the other. I play protoss as my main so I find zerg to be slightly more difficult, but I've never really attributed a loss to a problem with the race. Especially if I lose a ZvP, I can think about it from the protoss perspective to see how I could have done better as the zerg.
Eh, people have been saying that Protoss is the ez race since the earliest days of BW. Just mass up goons and zealots, then 1a2a3a your way to victory, as the old-timers use to say.
I used to play Terran in BW, then temporarily switched to Protoss in SC2. Afterwards, I switched to Random where I then found my strength to be in Zerg and my weakness to be in Terran, ironically.
For people below high Diamond and Masters, mechanics and game sense are way more important than balance. Don't listen to all the Zerg QQers. Don't even listen to your own subconscious QQ. Unless you are TLO, every loss is due to a snowball of mistakes. Playing Zerg may be hard mode, but it's not insurmountable and it sounds like you might have a ton of fun along the way.
Also
Zerg: The funnest race, but probably the least fleshed out. It's a bit dissapointing that every single game is ZvZ= Speedling battle, then roach battle, then muta battle.
If you don't like SC2 ZvZ, then you would hate BW ZvZ even more since 98% of pro BW games are won through either speedling battles or Muta+scourge air battles, which is kinda the reason why many people joke that ZvZ in BW is ZvZzzzzzzzz. Fortunately, BW Hive tech is extremely deep, though unexplored, and I think there are a lot of lesser known ZvZ builds in SC2 that are worth trying out
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Zerg Play is unexplored right now.
Don't be mistaken that 'standard' would mean 'only way' of playing something.
Why it's unexplored? cause in my opinion Zerg treads such a fine line b/n living/dying to timing pushes that it has not allowed players enough time/chance to experiment around. That and we're a reactive race thus not being able to come up with concrete BO to follow.
Examples like Skipping mutas for Infestors showcased on MrBitter's stream. JulyZerg's Hyper Agression style (only droning up enough and slowly expanding out while keeping up constant harass/pressure).
Then the ling/bling +ups style that aquanda popularize on Bitter's Koth.
New styles are there. Just have to be brave/persistent enough to experiment with them and make them work.
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I recently started playing again... never again will I race pick. Game's 10x more fun. But as someone who played zerg in sc/bw, I still do not care for them. It's a totally different playstyle
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On March 16 2011 21:51 Sayle wrote:I think this Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 21:42 Belial88 wrote:
Protoss: Easiest race to play, one of the most boring as well. It would not be fun to play them, although my win rate would be the highest. My opinion is that Protoss doesn't take skill to really win with.
Terran: One of the hardest races to play, to keep up with all the macro actually, imo, takes more speed than other races. ...is going to de-rail this thread :/ I have 2 accounts so I play protoss on one and zerg on the other. I play protoss as my main so I find zerg to be slightly more difficult, but I've never really attributed a loss to a problem with the race. Especially if I lose a ZvP, I can think about it from the protoss perspective to see how I could have done better as the zerg.
It's just my opinion, and its just a rant. Things like Warp gates does make macro for protoss a bit harder, but at Diamond and less level of play, just watching your base, warping units, and a moving when needed via minimap is more important than microing.
For people below high Diamond and Masters, mechanics and game sense are way more important than balance. Don't listen to all the Zerg QQers. Don't even listen to your own subconscious QQ. Unless you are TLO, every loss is due to a snowball of mistakes. Playing Zerg may be hard mode, but it's not insurmountable and it sounds like you might have a ton of fun along the way.
i don't think balance is the issue in this game, I think it's slightly not fleshed out when Zerg just does roach to roach/hydra corupter vs p and ling/bling muta vs T. Now, there are 2 more expansions coming out, Blizz has said Zerg isn't even done, so I'm really not worried at all. This is a great game, and it's very balanced. I just wanted to vent that there's some truth to the idea that Zerg vs Protoss, Zerg is a lot harder to play and it's kind of a stale matchup. I almost feel 99% of Protoss is a cheese of some sort (play Ladder lol, I can tell exactly what build people do 99% of the time just by how they say gl hf and how they talk, ie in caps, if they are friendly, if they dont respond, if they say it weird, etc). while Zerg has to play a tough game. theres just this desperation in playing Zerg unlike the other races.
But it is fun. ZvZ is a thin line between sheer break-your-nerves intensity, literally, and absolute back and forth fun (i dont know if the matchup is absolutely broken or absolutely perfect!), and it's becoming more and more fun, while ZvT, while at times can be frustrating with mass drop or 2 base push, is one of the most rewarding and fun matchups.
Why it's unexplored? cause in my opinion Zerg treads such a fine line b/n living/dying to timing pushes that it has not allowed players enough time/chance to experiment around. That and we're a reactive race thus not being able to come up with concrete BO to follow.
I agree the metagame is changing radically all the time. When first playing, I didn't really grasp this. But now, you see hellions effective all game long as well as in TvT (shockingly) and P, you see mech play, ultralisks are becoming amazing, etc. I definately agree with you.
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Calgary25980 Posts
Why don't people play MutaLing in ZvP? I do it 100% and it seems to work fine. When I play RoachHydra I have problems, but MutaLing is gr8.
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I actually find zerg easier to play than protoss- mechanically it may be more difficult but all the match-ups are pretty easy to understand. I find PvP and PvT confusing to play.
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@chill...because of infestors.
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On March 16 2011 22:05 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 21:51 Sayle wrote:I think this On March 16 2011 21:42 Belial88 wrote:
Protoss: Easiest race to play, one of the most boring as well. It would not be fun to play them, although my win rate would be the highest. My opinion is that Protoss doesn't take skill to really win with.
Terran: One of the hardest races to play, to keep up with all the macro actually, imo, takes more speed than other races. ...is going to de-rail this thread :/ I have 2 accounts so I play protoss on one and zerg on the other. I play protoss as my main so I find zerg to be slightly more difficult, but I've never really attributed a loss to a problem with the race. Especially if I lose a ZvP, I can think about it from the protoss perspective to see how I could have done better as the zerg. Eh, people have been saying that Protoss is the ez race since the earliest days of BW. Just mass up goons and zealots, then 1a2a3a your way to victory, as the old-timers use to say. I used to play Terran in BW, then temporarily switched to Protoss in SC2. Afterwards, I switched to Random where I then found my strength to be in Zerg and my weakness to be in Terran, ironically. For people below high Diamond and Masters, mechanics and game sense are way more important than balance. Don't listen to all the Zerg QQers. Don't even listen to your own subconscious QQ. Unless you are TLO, every loss is due to a snowball of mistakes. Playing Zerg may be hard mode, but it's not insurmountable and it sounds like you might have a ton of fun along the way. Also Show nested quote +Zerg: The funnest race, but probably the least fleshed out. It's a bit dissapointing that every single game is ZvZ= Speedling battle, then roach battle, then muta battle. If you don't like SC2 ZvZ, then you would hate BW ZvZ even more since 98% of pro BW games are won through either speedling battles or Muta+scourge air battles, which is kinda the reason why many people joke that ZvZ in BW is ZvZzzzzzzzz. Fortunately, BW Hive tech is extremely deep, though unexplored, and I think there are a lot of lesser known ZvZ builds in SC2 that are worth trying out
Lol yea TvP in brood war was such a joke >_>. I remember at D ranks I used to beat more protoss offracing as zerg than I did playing terran lol
On March 16 2011 22:49 Chill wrote:
Why don't people play MutaLing in ZvP? I do it 100% and it seems to work fine. When I play RoachHydra I have problems, but MutaLing is gr8.
Whenever I play muta ling I have a really hard time dealing with phoenix X_x. How do u deal with them? It seems like once theres 5 or 6 phoenix out with his main army my mutas are worthless cause u can move shot micro
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On March 16 2011 22:49 Chill wrote:
Why don't people play MutaLing in ZvP? I do it 100% and it seems to work fine. When I play RoachHydra I have problems, but MutaLing is gr8.
Its because all the cool kids are doing it 
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Eh, people have been saying that Protoss is the ez race since the earliest days of BW. Just mass up goons and zealots, then 1a2a3a your way to victory, as the old-timers use to say.
No, that's only since the age of Bisu. Before Bisu there were hundred of threads of Protoss players complaining they couldn't beat Zerg (since FE was an alternative strategy at best, rather than something fully fleshed out).
It used to be common knowledge that at the pro gaming level that Protoss was a little weak and the hardest race to win with. You'd get a little special feeling like you were playing the underdog race if you were a Protoss at that time (although at the lower levels it's never been about race balance).
(PvT was also pretty hard back in the day when most maps were designed with Terran in mind. Now that Terran have to learn how to play without significant terrain advantages, they like to complain a little more but that match up is pretty balanced as I see it).
JUST GIVING YOU SOME HISTORY.
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On March 16 2011 23:08 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +Eh, people have been saying that Protoss is the ez race since the earliest days of BW. Just mass up goons and zealots, then 1a2a3a your way to victory, as the old-timers use to say. No, that's only since the age of Bisu. Before Bisu there were hundred of threads of Protoss players complaining they couldn't beat Zerg (since FE was an alternative strategy at best, rather than something fully fleshed out). It used to be common knowledge that at the pro gaming level that Protoss was a little weak and the hardest race to win with. You'd get a little special feeling like you were playing the underdog race if you were a Protoss at that time (although at the lower levels it's never been about race balance). JUST GIVING YOU SOME HISTORY.
Perhaps, though I was thinking more about the early, EARLY days of BW, perhaps even before Boxer's time and definitely before the final balance changes. I guess I also wasn't really considering the pro level in the post, since it seems that at lower levels it's hard to beat the hardy units of the Protoss. I guess saying "since the earlies days" wasn't exactly the best word choice to use.
Nevertheless, massing goons and zealots is still an effective strat in pub BGH and Money Map games, and perhaps even in some lower level pub 1v1s.
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Stick to random. Why pick a race just to up in diamond. When you can have more fun playing random, and you will be more skilled and have more game knowledge in the long run.
I play terran and protos at platinum level (my Zerg is so bad). And I enjoy it both races, and the fact that you feel the pain when you get crushed by a build, and then you can try the same build as the other race next time you are in that matchup is so rewarding.
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On March 16 2011 22:49 Chill wrote:
Why don't people play MutaLing in ZvP? I do it 100% and it seems to work fine. When I play RoachHydra I have problems, but MutaLing is gr8.
Muta/ling straight up has some weaknesses in my experience, specifically to certain timing pushes, fast 3rds defended by good control, and large mass gateway pushes. I do try to always put ZvP in a situation where I can make mutas though (it just doesn't always happen).
@me_viet MrBitter's Infestor play is as old as beta. It's just come back into popularity as Terrans skewed more and more towards marine heavy compositions (and a well written guide).
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On March 16 2011 23:03 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
@chill...because of infestors.
I hate it when the protoss make infestors agaisnt me in ZvP, always catches me offguard.
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Wow, thank god a lot of people agree with me that Protoss on SC2 is ridiculously boring.
I've been playing Protoss since SC:BW, but I seriously hate playing Protoss in SC2.
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@eviltomahawk:
TvT -> T_T
Hahaha, sorry but I had to. And at any rate peeps, random's the best race cuz you can stay more flexible and be in-touch with all 9 possible matchups instead of 3. :D
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I started T, switched to P, and did really well, but got tired of it and just switched to Z. I'm still screwing around with it in team games, customs, and vs AI to get the feel down, but it definitely has a "back against the wall" feel most of the time vs "equal" opponents. Stick through it though.
A few random "ez win" tips I do that have been decently successful vs somewhat less than pros.
1. SCOUTING. Always keep a ling at his ramp/choke, a ling on the corners of the map to spot for medivacs/dropships/proxies, and a ling or two at the xelnagas. SOOOOO critical, imo. Knowing when an attack is going to show up, or what his army comp is makes it so easy to gameplan.
2. Do random crap. Seriously. I won a recent game with a funky build I haven't seen anyone do yet. I FE'ed, but didn't build a single drone after my initial ~24. Just two hatches/two queens pumping nothing but speedlings. My opponent scouted my FE, and considered himself safe, dropping a expo himself. Once I had ~70 speedlings, I 1a'ed them into his expo, simultaneously switching production over completely to drones, threw up fast gas at my expo, dropped a spire, and saved up larvae, making sure to stay far ahead in OL. I raped his puny army, and forced his expo off while he turtled. When my spire popped I had about 15-20 larvae and 1500/1000 banked, so I dropped 10 muta and started pumping more lings, simultaneously expanding. I kept harassing him and kept switching out lings for muta until I had ~50 muta out, at which point I 1a'ed them into the back of his base and GG'ed him. He rage quit, calling zerp op.
Don't follow the current pro "metagames", because by doing so, you're just allowing your opponent to counter you purely off what he has seen. If you do random crap, then he has to figure out the timings and counters himself, which 99% of random ladder players are apparently utterly incapable of doing.
3. Harass the crap out of your opponent. Even if you are doing no meaningful damage, it keeps his attention somewhere other than macroing and makes him hesitant to push out of his base. Sure, knocking out a turtling T is difficult, but it's way easier than dealing with a 3 base terran in late-game.
4. Don't wait for 200/200....EVER. This isn't simcity with a happy ending, and zerg armies only get worse at higher numbers. You want to be staying around 160 active supply at all times, and you want to be keeping your opponent at ~120. 160 vs 120 is a good fight you'll win most of the time. 200 vs 160 isn't.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
"I'm one of those half asians good at everything they try (which can be for better or worse)."
Are you serious? Pull your head out of your ass. You would get laughed at if you said that to anyone IRL.
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First I agree with Chef and Murderotica. Protoss has had a tradition of being underrepresented and the underdog in the top individual BW leagues. Also OP you shouldn't claim to be good at everything you try without first being a polymath like Leonardo da Vinci... there is far too much to try to ever fulfill such a claim. Even in gaming, you almost never see champions holding titles in multiple competitive games simultaneously.
In choosing a race first establish what criteria are relevant to you, and weight their importance. If you're competitive, this is simple: victory is the only criteria. Choose whichever race you judge as maximizing your ability to win.
On race balance: I think that prevailing trends in GSL seem to suggest that Terran and Zerg have a tough time maintaining a stable, long-term plan effective against Protoss. I also think such trends have little relevance for anyone not prepared to become a professional player.
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Why don't people play MutaLing in ZvP? I do it 100% and it seems to work fine. When I play RoachHydra I have problems, but MutaLing is gr8.
Show a replay, I wouldn't mind watching it. Certain Zerg units get owned too hardcore by Protoss units, namely Zealot vs Zergling and Colosi vs Ling/Hydra. Banelings have no use, which is too bad because they are just the most awesome unit (although I hear on korean servers this is changing?) and mutas aren't partcularly useful because Protoss units just deal so much damage that you really need core fighting units - unlike in ZvT where you can harass with mutas and have just a couple crutch banelings to win.
I actually find zerg easier to play than protoss- mechanically it may be more difficult but all the match-ups are pretty easy to understand. I find PvP and PvT confusing to play.
I feel mirror matchups are just knowing how your race plays, very, very well, and my mirror matchups are my strongest. PvP, as its current metagame state as well as a comfortable place for non-pros, is 4gate (3gate blink as a slight variation of the same idea) followed up by Colossus wars (as templar don't do enough damage, they just do less damage over a greater area - dps they are same but this means templar better against weak, light units and colossi better against protoss units/beefier units) - which is generally comes down to just whoever has the most colossi, or if the opponent is unaware, whoever focus fires the other persons colossi with his colossi (granted they aren't 1a'd in a ball, which they usually are).
TvT is all about smart siege tank placement and macro.
And ZvZ, like I said, is the speedling battle or lack thereof followed by the roach battle or lack thereof followed by the mutalisk battle.
Whenever I play muta ling I have a really hard time dealing with phoenix X_x. How do u deal with them? It seems like once theres 5 or 6 phoenix out with his main army my mutas are worthless cause u can move shot micro
A few hydras. I think the idea behind ZvP, is that, unlike T's reactor/techlab/ production style, Protoss has to tech very hard for each unit. By the time their Robo, Bay, and Lance is finished, you can have both spire and den. Hydra den actually comes out very, very very fast, so its never too late to throw one down when needed. The problem is the expensve in the hydras themselves.
[quoteStick to random. Why pick a race just to up in diamond. When you can have more fun playing random, and you will be more skilled and have more game knowledge in the long run. ][/quote]
Sorry I wasn't clear - it's not about being in Diamond. It's about just being better in this game and just playing more fleshed out games. Back before I was in Africa for over a month, I knew definately I could pick any race and be a Diamond, but I had fun as Random. i still don't think i've 'recovered' yet but I think it would be more fun for me to pick a race to flesh out than playing random at the moment. Not sure how to look at this, but I feel each match up is so dynamic that playing Terran and learning vT, vP, vZ, is just as 'random' as learning ZvP, TvZ, PvP. Each match-up is just so different, and I feel because of the youth of this game and metagame, each matchup is somewhat stale but I am excited to see that change in expansions as well as in the metagame.
"I'm one of those half asians good at everything they try (which can be for better or worse)."
Are you serious? Pull your head out of your ass. You would get laughed at if you said that to anyone IRL.
If you really have no clue what I'm talking about, maybe you should do that yourself. It isn't a self-ingratiating comment by any means - I think most everyone knows what you are talking about when you say "oh he never has to study and gets straight A's" or "yea he's really good at every video game he picks up, its gay he always beats me". Keep being so political correct, your so fun to the conversation. i don't want this to be derailed by this, and I didn't mean anything too serious by it. No, I didn't hit level 50 in Halo (lvl 49 lol), no I didn't win any championships, no I don't make straight A's. But you UNDERSTAND my comment when I said that, and that's all I meant to convey.
The point is that Starcraft 2 is the one game I wasn't baller at within a week, compared to Counterstrike, Halo, every first person shooter, DDR, Guitar Hero, smash brothers, etc (most of which i never owned). I was never the best in these games, but I was good at them right away. Starcraft 2, on the other hand, I'm still learning the basics.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
1. Such claims are just reeking of pompous douche-baggery. Also, it has nothing to do with the main point of your blog, you could have not mentioned how fucking awesome you are at video-games.
2. Mentioning your race is another completely stupid move. It's like you are good at everything BECAUSE you are half-Asian. It's in your blood, you can't do anything about it, you're just so naturally good yo yeaaaaa HIGH FIVE BRAH WOOOO. Right?
3. I think most everyone knows what you are talking about when you say "oh he never has to study and gets straight A's" or "yea he's really good at every video game he picks up, its gay he always beats me"
So... You make this point but later say that you don't make straight A's. Maybe you're not so good at videogames either? Just because you can beat your noob friends IRL or get to a certain level in HALO, does not make you good. It doesn't even necessarily make you competent. To be actually good at a game, you can't be in gold league (rough equivalent of C on ICC, assuming Masters is Olympic?) in SC2, for example. Just because all your friends are silver and you whoop their ass does not make you gosu. This is an analogy for every game you have played. Why? Because you never went to competitions so you don't even know how good you are compared to the best, and in that case, how do you benchmark yourself? In your case, with your omnipresent hubris. Pull your head out of your ass.
P.S. I don't see how anything I said was "PC," considering all I did was say that your stupid assertions were stupid. It's not "PC" to tell people that their race doesn't factor into them thinking they are a god in a certain field (when really they aren't).
EDIT: "This isn't a self ingratiating comment by any means"
LOL
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^ you're the one being a douchebag. You really have no idea what someone means when they say they are the kind of person that is just naturally good at video games, and that it's usually asian? Ignorant, generalizing of a comment? Yea. But it was just a stupid point, jesus christ some people are so nitpicky and politcally correct.
Anyways, anyone see the recent GSL tournament? God that was so depressing, in the context of this thread.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On March 21 2011 17:03 Belial88 wrote:
Ignorant, generalizing of a comment? Yea.
Okay.
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if a game is balanced, then racial balance is more of an issue at lower levels of play. i believe it starts to get even at high levels
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on one hand im very close to picking zerg as a race because ZvZ is fun, and ZvT is fun, although at times its frustrating, and the fun of winning can get repetitive, doesnt really feell ike much gain. But the worst thing about Zerg is ZvP, I just feel so lost and confused on it. He FE'd? Great, I can tech up - but wait, is it a 2 base push or 3 base push? Oh, its not a 2 base all in? I still lose to an early pressure push.
I just can't handle Protoss at all. I can't help but cry imba, but part of it is my incompetence. I have no idea what units to make. Roach/hydra seems to be what people recommend, with corrupters, but mass gateway itself is just impossible to stop (protoss t1 owns Zerg t1 so hard, and hydra takes too long and expensive). Ling gets owned so hard by zealots and forcefield, and baneling is a joke (the only reason zerg can really handle terran at any level). Ugh, I know this is a QQ, but I have no idea how to deal with protoss. If there were like any day9s or guides on it, that'd be awesome. Every pro replay I see of ZvP, the zerg gets steamrolled. It seems to be the rarest match-up to find vods of. I never see Kiwikaki's mass gateway style lose to Zerg - the only games I see protoss win is with stargate openings, or teching too fast. As playing protoss, I have no idea whats the point in teching when i can steamroll Zerg with mass t1.
4 gate is really hard to hold, no lie. It can be held when known it's coming, and you are guaranteed to win, but I gotta say of the 'cheeses'/all-ins, its the hardest to hold (ZvP 4 gate i mean as the hardest situation for any race to defend any push all-in). I know how to hold it off with ease, but I can't think of anything else harder (7rr, 6pool, etc) when known is coming. And 6 gate, I have no idea how anyone holds that. In fact I've never seen a single instance of someone losing with a 6 gate vs Zerg, assuming Zerg doesn't do some ridiculous early aggression that doesn't involve all-inning or a build that would'nt be considered wacky straight away.
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I've noticed that every single replay I've seen of ZvP, Zerg loses unless the following happens:
1. Protoss opens Stargate (funny because it's supposed to be so powerful, which is true, but the win ratio on it is less than the 100% i see in other PvZ games).
2. Protoss opens FFE and falls to early bust (usually roach or ling runby, rarely baneling). On the flip side, I don't think I've ever seen a Protoss lose if he pulls this off (then again my complaint is I never see protoss lose).
3. Protoss 4 gates and fails (rare to see zerg hold though, Idra loses so much to it, julyzerg did in GSL, and Sen I think holds it the most).
Literally, I'm trying so hard to find a ZvP where Zerg wins and the above conditions aren't met. Just type in "kiwikaki", the king of mass gateway and classic protoss deathball play against Zerg imo, on sc2casts.com. I haven't seen a single game of him losing when he didnt meat the above conditions. And mind you the above conditions aren't crazy conditions, it's like saying "as long as zerg doesnt 6 pool".
Dimaga ZvP? Yep, he loses. Idra never, ever wins in ZvP and always ragequits. In fact, I think the fact I haven't seen Kiwikaki ever lose is a good indicator. Huk even wins all the time.
I hate to be such a QQer, and I know a lot of it is my lack of skill, but come on, hasn't anyone else seen this depressing show of Zerg getting overwhelmingly crushed in ZvP pro replays?
On the other hand, i am not saying it's imba necessarily, as I feel the metagame isn't there. Overlord speed is starting to be seen as a necessity in ZvP. Infestor seems to be a key unit that hasn't been explored yet. Mass upgrade/roach instead of hydras seems to be much more stable, allowing zerg to get a third faster and faster spire/broodlord whereas hydras get owned by colossi and storm, which 2 base allin / 3 base protoss always will get one of, which own them way too hard. the metagame mostly focused on vT matchup, and we are seeing terran not be as hard to deal with anymore.
but yea, Im still looking for a replay of zerg winning in zvp. I'm now watching destiny's stream and searching IMnestea's and dimagas games, 2 players I think are showing a difference in ZvP.
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Please stop whining, you will never get good at the game with that mindset. Sure you admit that part of the reason you're losing is because of your own gameplay flaws, but 80% of your post contents wreak of QQ. Also stop pretending like you understand high-level play when your own fundamental mechanics at the game are less than average. I've watched your replays before and you're always severely under-droned, scout badly, and have a ton of idle larvae all the time, especially when you attempt to multi-task. Those, among other things.
Maybe you should work on your basic mechanics before you start trying to claim what is imbalanced and what is not. There's no point in trying to understand strategy when you don't have the mechanics to back it up. You keep asking for replays and learning resources when they are in abundance all over TeamLiquid, let alone the internet if you actually try to search for them. Zerg players have it good when it comes to learning resources, especially thanks to MrBitter and his 12 weeks with the pros. All of which are useless to you since you refuse to realize that all your losses have been due to the simple fact that you have bad macro.
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Reading this thread, it's hard to see why the title "Rants from a random" would be appropriate. It looks more like "Rants of a Zerg" or "ZvP sucks" or something similar. But anyway, here's my 2c.
You say you're in platinum as a random player and that if you picked a race, you'd be diamond easily. Seems to me that if you believe that's true and you're as competitive/winning is as important to you as it seems you should just go ahead and pick the race you believe will net you the most wins.
Reading on, it seems you're of the opinion that Protoss is the easiest to play. So again, you answered your own question... pick protoss and enjoy rolling everyone in diamond. But you did post this thread; which leads me to believe that you want to be told you're wrong. So here's what I'd say you should do: if you've decided to stop randoming, pick the race who's play style appeals to you the most, the one that's the most FUN to play. Not the one that's seems like it's the easiest to win with... the one you will enjoy playing more than the others, be it because you like how the units look, how their macro mechanic works, etc. - the overall feel of the race.
Then forget about winning every game and start playing games in order to learn the race you chose to the fullest in all it's machups. If your absolute focus right from the start is winning every game, you may as well switch races every 2 games or so, whenever one of those "imba" strategies kills you in spite of your astronomical skill. Speaking of skill, let me say this to end... you're in platinum. Platinum is very, very far from playing on a level where game balance is a deciding factor in your games. I play @3k masters and even though I sometimes feel frustrated with particular Z or T strategies, I don't even think about whining imbalance, because I know that I don't play nearly good enough for that to be a major factor.
TL;DR - Forget about balance. Play your chosen race until you hit diamond. Then play it until you hit masters. Then get into the top 200. And have fun doing it... otherwise there's little point in playing a game, is there?
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EPT
