EPT
I think it is wierd that code S players get two shots in the up and down matches, there is a risk that the play will stagnate in there with so little new blood every season.
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What are they holding in their hands? :S
Not even Code S yadayada - Page 2
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DumEN
Sweden123 Posts
I think it is wierd that code S players get two shots in the up and down matches, there is a risk that the play will stagnate in there with so little new blood every season. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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rift
1819 Posts
Racist. | ||
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
On March 10 2011 03:52 DumEN wrote: Amusing illustration I think it is wierd that code S players get two shots in the up and down matches, there is a risk that the play will stagnate in there with so little new blood every season. + Show Spoiler + What are they holding in their hands? :S for Code S it is 3rd place in RO32 gets 2 shots. 4th place in RO32 gets 1 shot. Top 8 Code A players get 2 shots. | ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
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aqui
Germany1023 Posts
On March 10 2011 03:30 Enervate wrote: Transitivity of skill does not annoy me. Broad generalizations, however, do. Tournaments are built around the concept of transitivity of skill. Not every player gets to play every other player. I'm not saying people are necessarily correct when they say a Code S player is way better than someone else. Just that it's not baseless. I don't disagree with you. I have added an explanation of what i meant to the op. What i meant when talking about transitivity was just statements like "player A (e.g. zerg) is better than B(e.g. protoss) because A beat C(terran) who beat B. " which ofc few people make. But that wasn't the op's topic. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
It always falls along the lines of: "XYZ Korean will win because of his ethnic background, dedicated time and because he plays XYZ race with these XYZ abusive units" Whatever happened to talking about the potential of maps in the match-up? How it'll sway an advantage towards or the other? How one's key talent in either placement, scouting abilities and use of units and understanding of timing will inflict a difficulty on his opponent. Why must everything be simplified by the common views that lack any sort of substance? Deviating a bit, but there you go. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
On March 10 2011 03:48 Turgid wrote: When will it be okay to talk about the comparative skill level? This year we had the Kaspersky Invitational, Assembly, two FXOpen events and IEM. Foreigners competing in the GSL have had a significant amount of time in Korea(and obviously that's what this argument is about, not Korean genes) except for Moonglade. Last year, GSL1(because of TLO), Dreamhack, and... King of the Beta? If you want to count that as a release event. Just wondering how much of a sample size we need and what kind of tournaments will count for this. Personally, I'm hoping for some sort of global division for the soon-to-be-introduced grandmasters rank. One season of a true global ladder would show us so much. If something like that doesn't happen, we'll just have to wait a bit more.. give it another year before having confidence in claiming that Koreans are superior. It's why TSL will be so interesting, it'll provide plenty of Korean vs Foreigner action for the people to speculate with. | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
I think Code A and Code S should be considered similar; but the "difference" should be for the Ro16 or Ro8 Code S people; those ones (MC, July, Jinro, MVP, Nestea, etc) are on the next level. The lower Code S players should be considered the same as Code A | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
On March 10 2011 04:17 Skyze wrote: It is annoying, as we've seen from GSTL and etc, Code A players CAN take wins off Code S players. Its not like BW, where the difference between A team and B team is so large. I think Code A and Code S should be considered similar; but the "difference" should be for the Ro16 or Ro8 Code S people; those ones (MC, July, Jinro, MVP, Nestea, etc) are on the next level. The lower Code S players should be considered the same as Code A Pretty much. I hate to be the guy who says how he guessed right, but the moment I saw that the 4th placed Code S player from the group stages only gets one BO3 to stay in Code S was the moment I realized Code A is gonna be a scary place. This system won't be like other's we've seen in BW so far, where there was the top league and then all sorts of B teams. Code S in SC2 is more like what Champions League is in Soccer. It's creme de la creme, and there's a shitload of super strong teams that don't get to play it regularly, but they have their own national divisions to compete in which are also super, super strong. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On March 10 2011 04:31 synapse wrote: Well that's why we have NASL right? Korea has this massive gaming culture that no other country has. If NASL is popular and starts attracting more kids to try out SCII, foreigners (in general) will reach much higher skill levels too. I really hope so. I don't have any problems relating to Koreans as some people seem to but I'd love to have a really big international scene where events like WCG are competitive and fun and there's just tons of amazing players. Unfortunately I think Korea is just a few steps ahead right at the moment. I'm optimistic about foreigners in SC2, though. We can do it. | ||
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Mortician
Bulgaria2332 Posts
On March 10 2011 02:54 Djagulingu wrote: In BW, top foreigners (except IdrA) could be stomped heavily by random korean girls (  F91 vs  ToSsGirL, I mean). They could give good games to korean semi-pros or amateurs (Ret in courage, Nony in courage etc.). In SC2, the newcomer korean kids know that foreigners were no match for koreans and they try to live up to that reputiation. So, code a dropouts like Ace and Moon can stomp every single foreigner on their way. I learned to live with it and thus don't expect foreigners to be close to koreans after 1-2 years (when it was BW, it also started out the same. At the end, we had koreans 1-2-3'ing every single WCG).Not quite, WCG 2009 and 2008, along with IeSF proved that Koreans are beatable by foreigners | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
and what a good analogy to marbles... LIGHT MARBLES RISING physics at work! | ||
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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On March 10 2011 06:31 Mortician wrote: Not quite, WCG 2009 and 2008, along with IeSF proved that Koreans are beatable by foreigners Yeah sure, us foreigners could take a couple of games off of those Koreans once in a while, but it was happened sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo occasionally that I'm sure a bunch of us foreigner fans would nearly have a heart attack when a foreigner would win... | ||
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deesee
Australia54 Posts
On March 10 2011 03:17 mprs wrote: You mean + Show Spoiler + how IMMVP, IMNestea, SlayerS_BoxeR, TSL_FruitDealer, and et al. could potentially lose their spot this season with some upsets? + Show Spoiler + and et al = and and others Generally I think the code system is good, but I have some pretty big issues with what happens in between code A and code S, and code A and "code B". It just seems like the random trash in S takes far too long to fall down to A, and A to B. Though, now I'm sort of happy it does, or we'd never have discovered MANzenith. As for Korea > foreigners, I don't buy it. In BW the difference was huge. Ridiculously huge. So far I haven't seen any evidence that it'll be like that for SC2 - I believe after the foreign scene becomes more stable and regular with all the new leagues, we'll see foreign players do better. I think that's what may make the difference. | ||
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
On March 10 2011 04:31 synapse wrote: Well that's why we have NASL right? Korea has this massive gaming culture that no other country has. If NASL is popular and starts attracting more kids to try out SCII, foreigners (in general) will reach much higher skill levels too. but what happens when a few koreans come and dominate the entire thing. it would do the opposite for the foriegn scene causeing more people to believe that its not worth it to compete against koreans. dont get me wrong im not saying koreans are the be all and end all. but there are plenty of people out there that once they see koreans dominate every tournement will get put off sc2. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2454 Posts
"lolol foreigners even lose to code A dropouts" and then you go on to draw a diagram and make a convoluted argument about how code A and code S are only going to get MORE skilled? Foreigeners are going to have LESS of a chance? LOL | ||
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