|
|
|
Your picture doesn't illustrate how players get pushed out of Code S/A 
|
You are right, neither does it illustrate the volatility of the process.
|
The system is pretty wonky...once you get into code S you stay there for a while unless you are completely outclassed... =/
|
That looks like a giant colon. I'm not going to go any farther with that analogy.
|
I think the Korean scene would really benefit from a few more competitions other than GSL.
BW wasn't just centered around the famous OSL. Proleague and MSL may have been lesser tournaments, but they still were big enough to expose many lesser players to the spotlight and start their gaming careers.
GSTL was a good step towards a Proleague-like system, and some of the lesser non-GSL tournaments also produce some decent results that reinforce the dominant players and introduce some powerful no-names.
However, many of the lesser Korean tournaments aren't broadcast or streamed outside of Korea, which is a great shame since they probably produce Code S-level players playing Code S-level matches on a regular basis.
IMO, there should be more streams and broadcasts of non-GSL tournaments from Korea to compensate for the bottlenecks in GSL.
|
I just get so annoyed when people spit out comments like "he's not even that good, only Code A" when even Code A is suuuch a huge accomplishment. Even being on a team. Most of those players deserve all the respect in the world, and people just shit on them with their comments about how they're "not even good".
If you're going to say that a progamer isn't very good, you better have a damn good reason.
|
5 starred for amusing me with the drawing
|
In BW, top foreigners (except IdrA) could be stomped heavily by random korean girls ( F91 vs  ToSsGirL, I mean). They could give good games to korean semi-pros or amateurs (Ret in courage, Nony in courage etc.). In SC2, the newcomer korean kids know that foreigners were no match for koreans and they try to live up to that reputiation. So, code a dropouts like Ace and Moon can stomp every single foreigner on their way. I learned to live with it and thus don't expect foreigners to be close to koreans after 1-2 years (when it was BW, it also started out the same. At the end, we had koreans 1-2-3'ing every single WCG).
|
Oh so thats how a womb look like o.o
On a serious note, I am kinda confused with the diagram. How it's supposed to work?
|
So you're saying the transitive property annoys you?
|
On March 10 2011 02:54 Djagulingu wrote:In BW, top foreigners (except IdrA) could be stomped heavily by random korean girls ( F91 vs ToSsGirL, I mean).
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I find that sentece hilarious, because I mainly rememeber F91 for stomping Idra in a showmatch, which resulted in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88342.
As for your diagramm, I also think that it is not easy enough to go from code A to Code S and conversely.
I mean in BW, a random gy can go from qualifier to winning the championship the same season, and it happened a few time. It is much more exciting I think...
|
On March 10 2011 03:09 Enervate wrote:
So you're saying the transitive property annoys you?
Claiming transitivity of skill annoys everyone and need not be commented on.
What i don't like here is using being in Code A/S as a measure of skill.
|
On March 10 2011 02:54 Djagulingu wrote:In BW, top foreigners (except IdrA) could be stomped heavily by random korean girls ( F91 vs ToSsGirL, I mean). They could give good games to korean semi-pros or amateurs (Ret in courage, Nony in courage etc.). In SC2, the newcomer korean kids know that foreigners were no match for koreans and they try to live up to that reputiation. So, code a dropouts like Ace and Moon can stomp every single foreigner on their way. I learned to live with it and thus don't expect foreigners to be close to koreans after 1-2 years (when it was BW, it also started out the same. At the end, we had koreans 1-2-3'ing every single WCG).
1. If by 'random korean girls' you mean the best female gamer in the history of BW progaming, then I guess TossGirl fits your definition.
2. The weakened importance of mechanics in SC2 heavily suggests that the sheer amount of practice isn't the key to success, like it was in BW, which was basically the only reason Koreans dominated everything.
Also, so far, we haven't had a proper way of measuring the foreigner scene against the Korean scene; all we've had were a few foreigners that did solid in the GSL (Jinro's double semifinal) and a few Koreans doing good in some foreign events.
That's too small of a sample to draw any real conclusions.
|
On March 10 2011 02:41 ReketSomething wrote:
The system is pretty wonky...once you get into code S you stay there for a while unless you are completely outclassed... =/
You mean + Show Spoiler +how IMMVP, IMNestea, SlayerS_BoxeR, TSL_FruitDealer, and et al. could potentially lose their spot this season with some upsets?
|
On March 10 2011 02:41 ReketSomething wrote:
The system is pretty wonky...once you get into code S you stay there for a while unless you are completely outclassed... =/
Yeah, you mean how 25% of all CodeS players (all who placed 4th in group stages) are only one BO3 away from playing in Code A next season?
|
On March 10 2011 03:04 yrag89 wrote:
Oh so thats how a womb look like o.o
On a serious note, I am kinda confused with the diagram. How it's supposed to work?
Imagine the bowls beeing filled with marbels whose inverse mass represent the player's skill. You have to shake quite some time until all light marbels are in the Code S bowl. The randomness would represent the volatility of the young game ( beating someone by discovering a new build etc. ( hello zeeraxx)) and the randomness of the who plays wohm.
|
On March 10 2011 03:15 aqui wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 03:09 Enervate wrote:
So you're saying the transitive property annoys you? Claiming transitivity of skill annoys everyone and need not be commented on. What i don't like here is using being in Code A/S as a measure of skill.
Transitivity of skill does not annoy me. Broad generalizations, however, do.
Tournaments are built around the concept of transitivity of skill. Not every player gets to play every other player.
I'm not saying people are necessarily correct when they say a Code S player is way better than someone else. Just that it's not baseless.
|
On March 10 2011 03:21 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 02:41 ReketSomething wrote:
The system is pretty wonky...once you get into code S you stay there for a while unless you are completely outclassed... =/ Yeah, you mean how 25% of all CodeS players (all who placed 4th in group stages) are only one BO3 away from playing in Code A next season?
Comparing to the BW scene, if you fail, you get dropped...theres no real second changes The point is that you lose against 3 people, then you get a second chance and then lose against the 4th and THEN you are out. And to move up you need to pass through SOOO many stages as well =/
It kinda sucks that players that will only have lets say a summer in korea will not have a chance to win Code S or anything.
|
On March 10 2011 03:17 niteReloaded wrote:
2. The weakened importance of mechanics in SC2 heavily suggests that the sheer amount of practice isn't the key to success, like it was in BW, which was basically the only reason Koreans dominated everything.
Also, so far, we haven't had a proper way of measuring the foreigner scene against the Korean scene; all we've had were a few foreigners that did solid in the GSL (Jinro's double semifinal) and a few Koreans doing good in some foreign events.
That's too small of a sample to draw any real conclusions.
When will it be okay to talk about the comparative skill level? This year we had the Kaspersky Invitational, Assembly, two FXOpen events and IEM. Foreigners competing in the GSL have had a significant amount of time in Korea(and obviously that's what this argument is about, not Korean genes) except for Moonglade. Last year, GSL1(because of TLO), Dreamhack, and... King of the Beta? If you want to count that as a release event. Just wondering how much of a sample size we need and what kind of tournaments will count for this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/1298/codes.jpg)
