EPTOn February 21 2011 10:48 Backpack wrote:
So Korean people are magically attracted to good starcraft games and nobody else is? Please put a little more thought into your post before you try to debate mine.
It is rare because the circumstances in Korea at the time were perfect for creating an "esport." This didn't happen anywhere else.
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2011 10:16 etheovermind wrote:
Games like this are the reason why BW is popular in Korea. Not some "rare occurrence" or "luck".
On February 21 2011 09:26 Backpack wrote:
BW "happening" in Korea was a rare occurrence. It was (to the best of my knowledge) the result of Korean culture at the time + the popularity of PC bangs. Blizzard simply got lucky that their game was becoming popular at the same time.
SC2 has much more stable growth and popularity.
I consider the Korean scene to be part of the "elite" since BW never really spread. I don't fully know how BW got so big in Korea but in the grand scheme of things I feel like it is an outlier.
On February 21 2011 08:59 corumjhaelen wrote:
Your first sentence is true, but does not contradict his post.
Your second is partial at best.
On February 21 2011 08:10 Backpack wrote:
BW rules in Korea. SC2 rules everywhere else.
Korea is quickly being overshadowed by the world-wide domination that SC2 is gaining.
edit: This is not an attempt to belittle BW, it's just the truth. The current state of TL.net is proof.
On February 21 2011 07:56 etheovermind wrote:
Not to make this SC2 vs BW, but BW does have a very popular proscene, with people who just watch it for fun. So far, the isn't any fan girls for SC2 so I can't see what you mean by BW only having an "elite" following.
On February 21 2011 07:13 Backpack wrote:
After reading your post, I can't quite figure out what you're trying to say as an overall point, so I'm going to talk about something you seem to have left out.
You never mentioned accessibility. In a time where esports are growing, certain things must be sacrificed to blur the line between casual and elite. When you look at games like Counter-Strike, which has/had a very successful competitive scene, you notice that the only people who follow the scene are competitors themselves. The elite group love it but the sponsors don't.
The same can apply to BW. There is the cult following that stays up until 6am to watch OSL, but the average gamer who plays UMS maps and the campaign doesn't even know the PL exists. If they happened to play multiplayer and got destroyed by reaver micro, they wouldnt even know what hit them, they could try their hardest and not even stand a chance. D players didn't feel bad because simply playing on iccup meant that you were already a level ahead of the battle.net players.
This doesn't happen in popular sports though. Every kid played soccer when growing up, they all knew that they could have a good time if they tried their hardest. They could watch the world cup and feel a connection to the players who have devoted their lives to the sport. Professional soccer players don't need fancy tricks (reaver/dropship/goon/muta micro) to appeal to the spectators.
Back to video games. SC2, Streetfighter 4, Brawl, etc. have taken steps toward unifying their players. They sacrifice some of the gameplay in order to provide to the masses. I am only a D+ SSF4 player, but I am able to fully appreciate the professional scene. Same thing with SC2. It is becoming more popular around the world than BW ever could have dreamed of. The pro-scene is heavily connected to the game. Everyone from Bronze to Masters knows about the competitive atmosphere of the game. IdrA, Jinro, and Day9 have become household names. The line between casual play and competitive play has become nonexistent.
This is due to the ease of accessibility. The reason that Husky has 500,000 subscribers is because he takes a game which everyone may not be very good at and makes it entertaining. The bronze players who wouldn't know a build order if it smacked them in the head can tune in to any of the 50+ streams that are always running on TL and enjoy what they are watching. MLG picked up the game after ignoring BW for years because of how popular it is with the casual spectators. There are SC2 tournaments *every-day* because people just can't get enough it. People seem to think that for it to be a successful e-sport it has to have an elite level but thats not true. If they want it to succeed it has to have spectators, it has to appeal to the masses, and it has to draw sponsorship money.
The SC2 scene is booming due to it being both fun and easy to learn, but still hard to master.
To sum it all up:
Was BW a better game? Probably.
Was BW a more popular game? Not even close.
Does SC2 need the extra difficulty in order to succeed as a esport? Definitely not.
edit: grammar
After reading your post, I can't quite figure out what you're trying to say as an overall point, so I'm going to talk about something you seem to have left out.
You never mentioned accessibility. In a time where esports are growing, certain things must be sacrificed to blur the line between casual and elite. When you look at games like Counter-Strike, which has/had a very successful competitive scene, you notice that the only people who follow the scene are competitors themselves. The elite group love it but the sponsors don't.
The same can apply to BW. There is the cult following that stays up until 6am to watch OSL, but the average gamer who plays UMS maps and the campaign doesn't even know the PL exists. If they happened to play multiplayer and got destroyed by reaver micro, they wouldnt even know what hit them, they could try their hardest and not even stand a chance. D players didn't feel bad because simply playing on iccup meant that you were already a level ahead of the battle.net players.
This doesn't happen in popular sports though. Every kid played soccer when growing up, they all knew that they could have a good time if they tried their hardest. They could watch the world cup and feel a connection to the players who have devoted their lives to the sport. Professional soccer players don't need fancy tricks (reaver/dropship/goon/muta micro) to appeal to the spectators.
Back to video games. SC2, Streetfighter 4, Brawl, etc. have taken steps toward unifying their players. They sacrifice some of the gameplay in order to provide to the masses. I am only a D+ SSF4 player, but I am able to fully appreciate the professional scene. Same thing with SC2. It is becoming more popular around the world than BW ever could have dreamed of. The pro-scene is heavily connected to the game. Everyone from Bronze to Masters knows about the competitive atmosphere of the game. IdrA, Jinro, and Day9 have become household names. The line between casual play and competitive play has become nonexistent.
This is due to the ease of accessibility. The reason that Husky has 500,000 subscribers is because he takes a game which everyone may not be very good at and makes it entertaining. The bronze players who wouldn't know a build order if it smacked them in the head can tune in to any of the 50+ streams that are always running on TL and enjoy what they are watching. MLG picked up the game after ignoring BW for years because of how popular it is with the casual spectators. There are SC2 tournaments *every-day* because people just can't get enough it. People seem to think that for it to be a successful e-sport it has to have an elite level but thats not true. If they want it to succeed it has to have spectators, it has to appeal to the masses, and it has to draw sponsorship money.
The SC2 scene is booming due to it being both fun and easy to learn, but still hard to master.
To sum it all up:
Was BW a better game? Probably.
Was BW a more popular game? Not even close.
Does SC2 need the extra difficulty in order to succeed as a esport? Definitely not.
edit: grammar
Not to make this SC2 vs BW, but BW does have a very popular proscene, with people who just watch it for fun. So far, the isn't any fan girls for SC2 so I can't see what you mean by BW only having an "elite" following.
BW rules in Korea. SC2 rules everywhere else.
Korea is quickly being overshadowed by the world-wide domination that SC2 is gaining.
edit: This is not an attempt to belittle BW, it's just the truth. The current state of TL.net is proof.
Your first sentence is true, but does not contradict his post.
Your second is partial at best.
BW "happening" in Korea was a rare occurrence. It was (to the best of my knowledge) the result of Korean culture at the time + the popularity of PC bangs. Blizzard simply got lucky that their game was becoming popular at the same time.
SC2 has much more stable growth and popularity.
I consider the Korean scene to be part of the "elite" since BW never really spread. I don't fully know how BW got so big in Korea but in the grand scheme of things I feel like it is an outlier.
Games like this are the reason why BW is popular in Korea. Not some "rare occurrence" or "luck".
So Korean people are magically attracted to good starcraft games and nobody else is? Please put a little more thought into your post before you try to debate mine.
It is rare because the circumstances in Korea at the time were perfect for creating an "esport." This didn't happen anywhere else.
So your saying only a rare occurrence could make esports work? I don't really understand what this has to do with the OP.
