• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:36
CEST 11:36
KST 18:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting3[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent9Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO65.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)72Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition325.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Ladder Impersonation (only maybe) The New Patch Killed Mech! TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Tenacious Turtle Tussle WardiTV Mondays SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent BW caster Sayle ASL20 General Discussion BW General Discussion BSL Season 21
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B [ASL20] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 927 users

Starcraft 2 n00b ep 14 - Where'd my gas go?

Blogs > KingOctavious
Post a Reply
KingOctavious
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States324 Posts
February 16 2011 17:02 GMT
#1
Still sitting at Bronze rank 1, trying to break through. But it's matches like this that are going to keep me stuck.

Several key issues pop up in this TvT. I tried augmenting my build to counter a semi-early marine push, going rax, factory, factory instead of my usual 3 rax, factory. That way I'd have the tanks to annihilate his marines. Turns out two factories that early just aren't sustainable. One would have been fine. Then, later in the game, I don't have <em>enough</em> factories, after realizing that (I think) I need to go somewhat thor-heavy to counter his tanks/marauders/banshees. Unfortunately, I build no more factories and only make more barracks. Wha???

Also, I noticed while watching this commentary before posting it here that I would have benefited from banshees at several points in the game, particularly when his army consisted mostly of marauders and tanks. I don't know why this never occurred to me. Of course, you gotta be careful when you do that because Terran can so easily transition into marines.

I wondered the whole match how the other guy seemed to have so much more gas than I did. Then I watched the replay and noticed that I built 45,000 ravens, which will tend to drain your gas. On top of that, I do a horrible job of protecting them. I think that and the too few factories were the things that brought me down here.

Check out the replay with commentary (in two parts):





Lessons learned:

1. Two factories are not sustainable in early game.

2. After taking expansions, it’s important to build more production facilities — particularly factories if you’re Terran and going tank- or thor-heavy. It’s probably a good idea to come up with a benchmark number of factories to have per base.

3. Don’t hotkey ravens with your main army. They’re just going to get annihilated.

4. Keep an eye on gas-heavy unit production. I realized I wanted some ravens, so I would frequently just hit my starport hotkey and press R twice (once for each starport). Without realizing it, I had created an entire air force of ravens, thus depriving me of gas needed for other units like thors.

5. Don’t walk blindly up to the opponent’s base, especially if that opponent is Terran. I lost a lot of early marines that way.

Check out my book, The Year in StarCraft II: 2011, http://yearinsc2.com/ :D:D
b0oyah
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
Canada117 Posts
February 16 2011 17:56 GMT
#2
I think your guidelines at the end of your post are sound. I havent watch your video but I can tell you from 2 base you can support like 3 barracks 1 facto pumping tanks and a reactor starport in tvt. After you take your 3rd you should add a factory and starport or more barracks. Dont forget upgrading, you can start them after your 2nd is saturated properly and you're about to take your 3rd. thats the way I am playing tvt at the moment and its goin great. Most important of all is have fun learning. I think your approach to all this is very good. Keep up the good work

Oh yeah if you see he doesnt have any vikings a tech switch to banshees is very good.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 16 2011 18:58 GMT
#3
As a random player, I'll say this much:

If you improve your mirror matchups (like TvT) specifically, you'll notice your overall skill jump faster than if you just play all 3 or focus on a different matchup. This is because you and your opponent share the same strengths and weaknesses, and almost always the player with the better understanding of the game wins.

This is true even in PvP (where the understanding is primarily limited to how a 4-gate works). In my opinion, improving your mirror matchup requires you to improve your basics, because your opponent will be doing the same or very similar things to you just by nature of race. Even with different builds, mirror matchups rely on fundamentals more than others because there are fewer timing windows, fewer ways to counter units, and fewer ways to exploit race vs race specific advantages.

For example, in a purely tank+marine fight in TvT, the winner will always be the one with a combination of more/better upgraded units or better control. Both suggest a higher understanding of the game.

So yeah, as you analyzed yourself, you realized that you lost because of basic mistakes. Improve your basics and your fundamentals such as macro, multitasking, scouting, etc. and I'm sure your TvT will improve.

Look at Jinro, for example. His fundamentals, including his unit control and his "feel" for how Terran units operate has led his best matchup to be TvT.
KingOctavious
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States324 Posts
February 16 2011 19:03 GMT
#4
On February 17 2011 02:56 b0oyah wrote:
I think your guidelines at the end of your post are sound. I havent watch your video but I can tell you from 2 base you can support like 3 barracks 1 facto pumping tanks and a reactor starport in tvt. After you take your 3rd you should add a factory and starport or more barracks. Dont forget upgrading, you can start them after your 2nd is saturated properly and you're about to take your 3rd. thats the way I am playing tvt at the moment and its goin great. Most important of all is have fun learning. I think your approach to all this is very good. Keep up the good work

Oh yeah if you see he doesnt have any vikings a tech switch to banshees is very good.


Thanks booyah! I would have thought, though, that two bases could support more than that. Am I wrong?
Check out my book, The Year in StarCraft II: 2011, http://yearinsc2.com/ :D:D
KingOctavious
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States324 Posts
February 16 2011 19:06 GMT
#5
On February 17 2011 03:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
As a random player, I'll say this much:

If you improve your mirror matchups (like TvT) specifically, you'll notice your overall skill jump faster than if you just play all 3 or focus on a different matchup. This is because you and your opponent share the same strengths and weaknesses, and almost always the player with the better understanding of the game wins.


Wow, that's a really good point, and some of the best advice I've gotten so far, wherebugsgo. Thanks. I'll definitely need to keep that in mind.
Check out my book, The Year in StarCraft II: 2011, http://yearinsc2.com/ :D:D
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
February 16 2011 23:27 GMT
#6
I make two factories all the time. Just one of them needs a reactor instead of a tech lab. It's perfectly sustainable, and hellions are quite amazing vs marines.
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
KingOctavious
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States324 Posts
February 17 2011 00:45 GMT
#7
On February 17 2011 08:27 shinosai wrote:
I make two factories all the time. Just one of them needs a reactor instead of a tech lab. It's perfectly sustainable, and hellions are quite amazing vs marines.


Yeah, I do need to start making use of hellions more. I think my issue is that they're so micro intensive, and right now I want to get my macro down a little more solid.
Check out my book, The Year in StarCraft II: 2011, http://yearinsc2.com/ :D:D
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13h 24m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 150
RotterdaM 145
SortOf 106
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 728
BeSt 576
actioN 467
Soma 283
Stork 208
Killer 199
EffOrt 162
hero 147
ToSsGirL 79
Shinee 78
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 77
PianO 77
Sharp 56
Sacsri 24
Bale 22
soO 15
Movie 11
ZerO 5
JulyZerg 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe143
League of Legends
JimRising 589
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1625
Other Games
summit1g6772
singsing1299
ceh9588
Happy203
Pyrionflax133
crisheroes103
Mew2King38
Fuzer 31
ZerO(Twitch)0
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL6895
Other Games
gamesdonequick859
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 28
• Light_VIP 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2047
• Lourlo639
Other Games
• WagamamaTV267
Upcoming Events
OSC
13h 24m
The PondCast
1d
OSC
1d 2h
Wardi Open
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Safe House 2
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Safe House 2
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.