• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:12
CEST 09:12
KST 16:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview4[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris34Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update BoxeR's Wings Episode 2 - Fan Translation A Eulogy for the Six Pool
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Esports World Cup 2025
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
Easiest luckies way to get out of Asl groups BW General Discussion Post ASL20 Ro24 discussion. BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ No Rain in ASL20?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! [ASL20] Ro24 Group E [ASL20] Ro24 Group D
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Mechabellum Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
YouTube Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3684 users

Starcraft 2 n00b ep 14 - Where'd my gas go?

Blogs > KingOctavious
Post a Reply
KingOctavious
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States324 Posts
February 16 2011 17:02 GMT
#1
Still sitting at Bronze rank 1, trying to break through. But it's matches like this that are going to keep me stuck.

Several key issues pop up in this TvT. I tried augmenting my build to counter a semi-early marine push, going rax, factory, factory instead of my usual 3 rax, factory. That way I'd have the tanks to annihilate his marines. Turns out two factories that early just aren't sustainable. One would have been fine. Then, later in the game, I don't have <em>enough</em> factories, after realizing that (I think) I need to go somewhat thor-heavy to counter his tanks/marauders/banshees. Unfortunately, I build no more factories and only make more barracks. Wha???

Also, I noticed while watching this commentary before posting it here that I would have benefited from banshees at several points in the game, particularly when his army consisted mostly of marauders and tanks. I don't know why this never occurred to me. Of course, you gotta be careful when you do that because Terran can so easily transition into marines.

I wondered the whole match how the other guy seemed to have so much more gas than I did. Then I watched the replay and noticed that I built 45,000 ravens, which will tend to drain your gas. On top of that, I do a horrible job of protecting them. I think that and the too few factories were the things that brought me down here.

Check out the replay with commentary (in two parts):





Lessons learned:

1. Two factories are not sustainable in early game.

2. After taking expansions, it’s important to build more production facilities — particularly factories if you’re Terran and going tank- or thor-heavy. It’s probably a good idea to come up with a benchmark number of factories to have per base.

3. Don’t hotkey ravens with your main army. They’re just going to get annihilated.

4. Keep an eye on gas-heavy unit production. I realized I wanted some ravens, so I would frequently just hit my starport hotkey and press R twice (once for each starport). Without realizing it, I had created an entire air force of ravens, thus depriving me of gas needed for other units like thors.

5. Don’t walk blindly up to the opponent’s base, especially if that opponent is Terran. I lost a lot of early marines that way.

Check out my book, The Year in StarCraft II: 2011, http://yearinsc2.com/ :D:D
b0oyah
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
Canada117 Posts
February 16 2011 17:56 GMT
#2
I think your guidelines at the end of your post are sound. I havent watch your video but I can tell you from 2 base you can support like 3 barracks 1 facto pumping tanks and a reactor starport in tvt. After you take your 3rd you should add a factory and starport or more barracks. Dont forget upgrading, you can start them after your 2nd is saturated properly and you're about to take your 3rd. thats the way I am playing tvt at the moment and its goin great. Most important of all is have fun learning. I think your approach to all this is very good. Keep up the good work

Oh yeah if you see he doesnt have any vikings a tech switch to banshees is very good.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 16 2011 18:58 GMT
#3
As a random player, I'll say this much:

If you improve your mirror matchups (like TvT) specifically, you'll notice your overall skill jump faster than if you just play all 3 or focus on a different matchup. This is because you and your opponent share the same strengths and weaknesses, and almost always the player with the better understanding of the game wins.

This is true even in PvP (where the understanding is primarily limited to how a 4-gate works). In my opinion, improving your mirror matchup requires you to improve your basics, because your opponent will be doing the same or very similar things to you just by nature of race. Even with different builds, mirror matchups rely on fundamentals more than others because there are fewer timing windows, fewer ways to counter units, and fewer ways to exploit race vs race specific advantages.

For example, in a purely tank+marine fight in TvT, the winner will always be the one with a combination of more/better upgraded units or better control. Both suggest a higher understanding of the game.

So yeah, as you analyzed yourself, you realized that you lost because of basic mistakes. Improve your basics and your fundamentals such as macro, multitasking, scouting, etc. and I'm sure your TvT will improve.

Look at Jinro, for example. His fundamentals, including his unit control and his "feel" for how Terran units operate has led his best matchup to be TvT.
KingOctavious
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States324 Posts
February 16 2011 19:03 GMT
#4
On February 17 2011 02:56 b0oyah wrote:
I think your guidelines at the end of your post are sound. I havent watch your video but I can tell you from 2 base you can support like 3 barracks 1 facto pumping tanks and a reactor starport in tvt. After you take your 3rd you should add a factory and starport or more barracks. Dont forget upgrading, you can start them after your 2nd is saturated properly and you're about to take your 3rd. thats the way I am playing tvt at the moment and its goin great. Most important of all is have fun learning. I think your approach to all this is very good. Keep up the good work

Oh yeah if you see he doesnt have any vikings a tech switch to banshees is very good.


Thanks booyah! I would have thought, though, that two bases could support more than that. Am I wrong?
Check out my book, The Year in StarCraft II: 2011, http://yearinsc2.com/ :D:D
KingOctavious
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States324 Posts
February 16 2011 19:06 GMT
#5
On February 17 2011 03:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
As a random player, I'll say this much:

If you improve your mirror matchups (like TvT) specifically, you'll notice your overall skill jump faster than if you just play all 3 or focus on a different matchup. This is because you and your opponent share the same strengths and weaknesses, and almost always the player with the better understanding of the game wins.


Wow, that's a really good point, and some of the best advice I've gotten so far, wherebugsgo. Thanks. I'll definitely need to keep that in mind.
Check out my book, The Year in StarCraft II: 2011, http://yearinsc2.com/ :D:D
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
February 16 2011 23:27 GMT
#6
I make two factories all the time. Just one of them needs a reactor instead of a tech lab. It's perfectly sustainable, and hellions are quite amazing vs marines.
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
KingOctavious
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States324 Posts
February 17 2011 00:45 GMT
#7
On February 17 2011 08:27 shinosai wrote:
I make two factories all the time. Just one of them needs a reactor instead of a tech lab. It's perfectly sustainable, and hellions are quite amazing vs marines.


Yeah, I do need to start making use of hellions more. I think my issue is that they're so micro intensive, and right now I want to get my macro down a little more solid.
Check out my book, The Year in StarCraft II: 2011, http://yearinsc2.com/ :D:D
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 48m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 205
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4155
PianO 203
JulyZerg 171
Zeus 109
Noble 52
ToSsGirL 49
Bale 14
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm107
League of Legends
JimRising 600
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K743
Other Games
C9.Mang0552
WinterStarcraft494
Fuzer 74
ViBE37
semphis_16
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL1341
Other Games
gamesdonequick838
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH451
• practicex 33
• Sammyuel 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos644
• Stunt437
Upcoming Events
SC Evo League
4h 48m
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
Maestros of the Game
8h 48m
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[BSL 2025] Weekly
10h 48m
SC Evo League
1d 4h
Maestros of the Game
1d 8h
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
1d 11h
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
1d 11h
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soulkey vs BeSt
Snow vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS1
WardiTV Summer 2025
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.