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Medivac drops too powerful vs toss? - Page 2

Blogs > Qzy
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starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-05 05:38:31
February 05 2011 05:37 GMT
#21
So people pointed out that you need some semblance of map control and awareness but also your base layout is important. If you have your templar archives right where it can be sniped then the drop is going to hurt. If you run your probes away and all he can do is shoot a pylon or two, you can take your time getting there and it won't matter. Also if he's sending 3 medivacs of marines and marauders that's a big chunk out of his army and he's not going to win a frontal attack.
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
February 05 2011 05:44 GMT
#22
On February 05 2011 14:02 Qzy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2011 13:59 Kolvacs wrote:
On February 05 2011 13:51 Qzy wrote:
On February 05 2011 13:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
it's not too powerful, you're too slow


If I'm 50% apm over my opponent, ergo not slow, how can it not be considered "powerful" in the way it takes a lot of skill to counter it properly.

You see, it's not the scouting problem I've presented to you, it's the composition of units to counter it. You'll need stalkers when out of position and not able to forcefield, and stalkers are very fragile in tight corners where zealots can't be in front.

You guys are waaaaay too defensive and/or insulting.


Scout what buildings they have!
I'm a tad bit confused about how this is THAT difficult.
Sure, drops are annoying. Not too strong.


I can easily see a drop coming, and see that he's going for a 1-1-1 build. But when he drops in your main and natural, you'll have to split up the army - you can't forcefield in open spaces with few sentries (only 2-3 forcefields) and you'll get kited with zealots/immortals. Stalkers are too fragile.

It might be a too hard topic for TL (thinking about flames towards idra/artosis when doing IMBALANCE) and something I should save for my practice partners.

Post some replays then. You say you haven no problems with scouting and reacting in time. I want to see proof then, because I don't believe that for a second.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
rigwarl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States540 Posts
February 05 2011 07:03 GMT
#23
On February 05 2011 13:51 Qzy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 05 2011 13:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
it's not too powerful, you're too slow


If I'm 50% apm over my opponent, ergo not slow, how can it not be considered "powerful" in the way it takes a lot of skill to counter it properly.

You see, it's not the scouting problem I've presented to you, it's the composition of units to counter it. You'll need stalkers when out of position and not able to forcefield, and stalkers are very fragile in tight corners where zealots can't be in front.

You guys are waaaaay too defensive and/or insulting.


this is the most ironic thing i've ever seen on TL
Backpack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1776 Posts
February 05 2011 07:09 GMT
#24
Im going to take the OPs side here even though he has a pretty bad attitude. Even when I see a drop coming its hard to stop without pulling too much. A medivac and stimmed marines/marauders will decimate any equal-cost group of gateway units due to healing and kiting. Protoss has to send almost two times the cost of the drop to stop it which makes your front extremely vulnerable to a push.

Idealy it would be terran sending ~10 supply for a drop which weakens his army by 10 and the protoss has to respond by sending ~10 supply to go defend the drop. But in reality the protoss needs to send ~15-20 supply.

Drops aren't a huge problem except for when the terran pushes your front at the same time : /
"You people need to just generally care a lot less about everything." -Zatic
eu.exodus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
South Africa1186 Posts
February 05 2011 07:12 GMT
#25
dude you are talking about being dropped by 3 medivacs.

Depending on the map, you could have an observer at his base before he his second medivac pops. By the time he has 3 loaded medivacs you should have seen what he is up to.

Secondly, medivacs are fragile. Keeping a few stalkers at your minerals wont mean auto lose if they attack at your choke, if anything its much better than being 3vac dropped and half your shit taken out with almost no counter damage done in return.

Also keep in mind that if he sees stalkers waiting there, he would probably not risk it. If he does, focus fire and take out 10 supply per medivac without taking any damage.

As a terran player i can tell you that drops are high risk, high reward and are by no means unstoppable.
6 poll is a good skill toi have
RoyalFlush1994
Profile Joined February 2011
Singapore30 Posts
February 05 2011 08:18 GMT
#26
i agree with this i cant believe how good med vacs are... they can heal and drop, forcing protoss to split their armyies

i think that the ability for them 2 heal should b an upgrade at the tex lab and in worst case senaireo, make drop also upgrade

meds + rines/rauders are way 2 strong when dropped
top the flop on the mississippi
skaterkid24
Profile Joined December 2010
Niger13 Posts
February 05 2011 08:20 GMT
#27
On February 05 2011 17:18 RoyalFlush1994 wrote:
i agree with this i cant believe how good med vacs are... they can heal and drop, forcing protoss to split their armyies

i think that the ability for them 2 heal should b an upgrade at the tex lab and in worst case senaireo, make drop also upgrade

meds + rines/rauders are way 2 strong when dropped

yes i am tatally agree with this because marder and moles are too strong... really too strong.

not only this but they have allin tactics + fast push or fast expo off of 1 opaning
skating
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-05 08:52:10
February 05 2011 08:27 GMT
#28
Blue flame hellion drops/harrass can be pretty ridiculous especially later in the game when bases are highly saturated. Unless you have a big army there you cannot kill them fast enough to prevent the death of a million workers. You can have 4 cannons around your minerals but 4 hellions can still run in and fry all 25 probes before they die. Try to run? Just puts them in a line and then even more die at once. You have to have unreal worker micro to keep hellion harrass from being cost effective.

As for whether or not medivac drops are OP... I'll just say they are incredibly difficult to deal with. They are incredibly difficult to deal with because your own building create walls for the marine/marauder which are both ranged, and medivacs also heal them. So to stop them you need to use a greater force than what the terran drops with. Late game, if you have 3, 4, 5 bases and terran has some units in the middle of the map and then drops 3 medivacs full at 2 dfferent bases, you really have no choice but to take some heavy losses.

When ur opponent is incorporating medivacs it may just be worth it to get extra observers to post around the map. Sucks to have to use that gas, though.

Also collossi make it harder for your opponent to get too many medivacs.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
February 05 2011 10:34 GMT
#29
Medivac drops are one of those things thats x10 harder to defend than it is to execute. They are absolutely non-trivial to stop.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Ascendant13
Profile Joined August 2010
66 Posts
February 19 2011 06:32 GMT
#30
I agree, they are one of the most frustrating things about playing against terran. Even when you see them coming, they can still hurt you badly.

The problem is terran dps is insanely high. Even if you respond quickly they can probably take out your nexus first. And fighting in your base is the absolute last place you want to fight T (until very lategame with col templar of course) because you can't get a good zealot surround.

But the most annoying thing in my mind is how fast the units load back into the medivacs. Its almost instant, so when you do respond, they just safely flee.

And terran gets this capability for FREE, its part of his standard army.

Remember as well, against a good terran you will not have your observer sitting on his army the entire time, lol. He will kill it.

I hate to talk balance, but I really think the medivac needs reduced carry capacity, or maybe load its units far slower. T seems to have a ton of stuff that is 10x harder to stop than it is to pull off, and it is very frustrating.
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