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I'm also one of those BW players who isn't that interested in SC2, but plays occasionally and completely wings everything.
But yeah, from a BW iccup player's point of view Master level is absolutely abysmal in terms of the required game knowledge and general playing ability. But SC2 has a much larger and younger player base, with a lot more "casual" players.
There's also a different mentality. If you wanted to get good at BW, you would get on iccup and grind out stuff until you really knew and understood it. Now that we have all these livestreams and sites like TL, people can sit back in their armchairs and discuss SC2. So when it gets to actually playing the games they might "know" a lot of strategy, but they have horrible unit control and can't spend their money (which is what BW players mostly care about at low levels).
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never played bw but i'm literally the same, winged it since day 1 and have somehow ended up in masters with literally no clue what im really doing. win about 50% of games and just chillin' at about 2.6k~
never made a build, never really copied a build just ended up making things :S
feel like i could be so much better but quite frankly i really cannot be bothered
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On February 03 2011 09:03 breakingties wrote:
never played bw but i'm literally the same, winged it since day 1 and have somehow ended up in masters with literally no clue what im really doing. win about 50% of games and just chillin' at about 2.6k~
never made a build, never really copied a build just ended up making things :S
feel like i could be so much better but quite frankly i really cannot be bothered
Exactly. My friend says I should put more effort into it but I haven't been able to force myself to play since the patch (except for the 2 games to get master). My friend, whom I used to crush easily 95% of the time now wins 50% of the games against me. He has played 5x as many games as me. He says I would be a lot better if I wrote down timings and such. I would be willing to do that in BW to a certain extent, at least I'd remember timings better... But I guess I don't even make much of an intellectual effort...
It's obviously my fault, but yeah.
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On February 03 2011 08:15 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 08:07 [Eternal]Phoenix wrote:On February 03 2011 06:54 Megaliskuu wrote:
I'm the same way, 2900 in masters but never cared to watch much sc2 games, reps, or builds..I just make stuff O_O. Holy crap you're 2900 now? OMG r u pheonixyspartan from iccup? Or do I have you confused with someone  ?
Nope. =D
I posted here under a different name for a couple years before taking a vacation to Disney World. We have played on ladder though. Jungle Basin, PvZ, I won (not like Z can win there anyways).
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On February 03 2011 07:36 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 07:22 TBO wrote:
I'm in masters as well, and I am horrible at everything. Top 2% of a rather new game is just not too hard to get for someone who played other RTS on a decent level before. Which rank have you been in BW? I doubt that what you or I do right now would get us in masters league in 2-3 years^^ Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 07:00 Ursad0n wrote:
But think about it, even in BW, once u had pretty good understanding of the game, and timings, and decent macro. You were still fucking D, Maybe D+ if you didn't play Terran. (because it was harder to start off with) But in SC2, with little understanding of the game you can still get top 2% look at the # of people who were Olympic or A+ rank on ICCup at any given time. Usually like, 20. and most were progamers smurfing. it was like, top 0.1% now it's too easy, either because the game itself is too easy, or because we haven't figured out how to be good yet. I was high C+ within a couple of months playing BW seriously. Still C+ sounds significantly less impressive than Masters and I did feel so much better at the game.
For anyone that played BW, C+ is alot more impressive than Masters. I would never be able to beat a C+ in BW, but I beat Masters players the majority of the time.
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On February 04 2011 05:26 Disastorm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 07:36 Djzapz wrote:On February 03 2011 07:22 TBO wrote:
I'm in masters as well, and I am horrible at everything. Top 2% of a rather new game is just not too hard to get for someone who played other RTS on a decent level before. Which rank have you been in BW? I doubt that what you or I do right now would get us in masters league in 2-3 years^^ On February 03 2011 07:00 Ursad0n wrote:
But think about it, even in BW, once u had pretty good understanding of the game, and timings, and decent macro. You were still fucking D, Maybe D+ if you didn't play Terran. (because it was harder to start off with) But in SC2, with little understanding of the game you can still get top 2% look at the # of people who were Olympic or A+ rank on ICCup at any given time. Usually like, 20. and most were progamers smurfing. it was like, top 0.1% now it's too easy, either because the game itself is too easy, or because we haven't figured out how to be good yet. I was high C+ within a couple of months playing BW seriously. Still C+ sounds significantly less impressive than Masters and I did feel so much better at the game. For anyone that played BW, C+ is alot more impressive than Masters. I would never be able to beat a C+ in BW, but I beat Masters players the majority of the time.
I really feel that C+ is more of an accomplishment than Masters.
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People are confusing the ranking systems, D+ or higher is the equivalent of masters. That may seem silly but for anyone who didn't already realize this, iccup was really fucking hard (especially with all the smurfs at D level). Anyone who has the SC:BW mechanics to be D+ should be top diamond or masters easy.
Ya, masters players aren't pro's and may not have well planned builds but they also aren't going 3 rax 2 fact and 2 starports off 1 base, or getting supply capped at 19. Masters isn't amazing, but even if they aren't following food timings, most masters players still have a strong feel for timings. You don't see masters players who get completely and totally surprised by mutalisks. They generally have good unit and scv production, build structures on time, expand in a resonable fashion, etc.
Go watch some of the pro 2001 brood war games. The game is new. In 8 years, when all the casual players have moved on to Call of Duty 32 I'm sure you won't see people in the top 2% who don't follow build orders to a T.
Overall, master players still have a lot of room for improvement, but watch games from any lower league and realize how many things masters players are worlds better than the other leagues.
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you can't compare iccup with sc2 though, i was C- high in ICCUP and I don't think there was any way I could take games off B- ICCUP. In SC2, its so not mechanically demanding and there is enough randomness that I wouldn't be surprised at all if I was able to take multiple games off 3k+ masters
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On February 04 2011 11:13 AraqirG wrote:
You don't see masters players who get completely and totally surprised by mutalisks.
... =(
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As I see it, people can get away with imprecise play at high levels simply because nobody is that precise yet. SC2 is not as mechanically demanding as BW, but it IS just as complicated in terms of a plan. The difference is that your plan hasn't been used for 5 years and ironed out as good against x and bad against y. Time will change the way that this game looks, though 2% is a huge number of players, so low masters will probably maintain its current look.
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EPT
