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The state of online fps gaming on the pc. - Page 2

Blogs > eXiled
Post a Reply
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Ipp
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States456 Posts
November 21 2010 18:55 GMT
#21
The state of online FPS is all about Call of Duty? You could make an equal argument about RTS using only C&C. Seriously CS, Quake, unreal, and TF2 are much better than any CoD series
http://youtube.com/RageQuitTV
Nokarot
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1410 Posts
November 21 2010 19:17 GMT
#22
On November 22 2010 03:55 Ipp wrote:
The state of online FPS is all about Call of Duty? You could make an equal argument about RTS using only C&C. Seriously CS, Quake, unreal, and TF2 are much better than any CoD series


I think he's saying that the mass population is shouldered by Call of Duty, not that CS/Quake/etc aren't better games.
beep beep boop
CCa1ss1e
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada3231 Posts
November 21 2010 20:09 GMT
#23
Unreal Tournament '99 was always my favourite FPS. There's still a decent community kicking around on mIRC.

Great game.
~ The Ultimate Weapon
h3r1n6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Iceland2039 Posts
November 22 2010 02:55 GMT
#24
On November 22 2010 02:37 limonovich wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2010 02:34 h3r1n6 wrote:
On November 22 2010 02:22 MightyAtom wrote:
But I'd say the Q3 was what SC was for RTS was for FPS.


True. And CS 1.6 is the same for team FPSs..


Why do you expect anything but crap from Activision, hasn't Battle.net 2.0 taught you anything? The worst part is, all the brainless retards put up with that crap and still buy CoD games.


In all honesty, the CoD games are actually fun to play on public. Not everyone buys games because they want to go to LANs, win prizes...etc. You have to remember that the vast majority of consumers are casual gamers and couldn't care less about competitive features.

tl;dr the troglodytes have to be catered for, they make up >90% of the revenues



Well, you might make a point for something like no console. But all I hear is that the game is really bugged, you can only get dedicated servers from one source, the dedicated servers still lag. Doesn't sound playable to me.

That CoD is not a game I enjoy is a whole different story.
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
November 22 2010 03:21 GMT
#25
I hate modern FPS too. Whatever happened to making a fun game instead of substituting the fun for gimmicky features?

I hate the MMORPG-style leveling up and unlock systems that seem to be a requirement these days. You buy the game but can only use a few guns until you grind out hundreds of hours, and in the process you get your ass kicked by people that already have the better shit. It'd be like laddering in Starcraft where you only got to use barracks units until you won enough games to unlock the factory.

I hate the obsession with persistent stat tracking. People don't even try to work together or win matches anymore because they're all stat whores. K:D ratios are more important than winning or having fun apparently.

I hate the ridiculous level of customization. Let me choose my gun and a few things like armor and grenades, but that's it. I feel like I'm equipping an RPG character in any modern FPS. It's option overload, and it isn't any fun. I also hate how every new game has a dozen different modes to fragment the player base. Why not just make one base game that's actually good?

It's not even worth complaining about all this stuff because each new CoD game is going to sell a billion copies anyway. People like all these features that I hate.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
yoplate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States332 Posts
November 22 2010 03:57 GMT
#26
I think its more of an issue with the CoD series degrading. I personally thought MW1 was amazing, but from CoD5 on, it went downhill.
BG1
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Canada1550 Posts
November 22 2010 05:44 GMT
#27
Yea there's pretty much nothing competitive since CS. Just noob catered games nowadays in the fps genre.
There was once a dream that was Esports. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish... Now is the time to make that dream a reality!
accordion
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada58 Posts
November 22 2010 06:39 GMT
#28
On November 22 2010 11:55 h3r1n6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2010 02:37 limonovich wrote:
On November 22 2010 02:34 h3r1n6 wrote:
On November 22 2010 02:22 MightyAtom wrote:
But I'd say the Q3 was what SC was for RTS was for FPS.


True. And CS 1.6 is the same for team FPSs..


Why do you expect anything but crap from Activision, hasn't Battle.net 2.0 taught you anything? The worst part is, all the brainless retards put up with that crap and still buy CoD games.


In all honesty, the CoD games are actually fun to play on public. Not everyone buys games because they want to go to LANs, win prizes...etc. You have to remember that the vast majority of consumers are casual gamers and couldn't care less about competitive features.

tl;dr the troglodytes have to be catered for, they make up >90% of the revenues



Well, you might make a point for something like no console. But all I hear is that the game is really bugged, you can only get dedicated servers from one source, the dedicated servers still lag. Doesn't sound playable to me.

That CoD is not a game I enjoy is a whole different story.


Uh... game has run fine for me since the first patch they issued a day or two after launch. Whether the game was fun after a week of play is another story. It's actually sad that FPS are more popular on console than PC, and because of that, the shitty is gameplay is tailored towards them.

Also, sounds like OP started with the wrong FPS franchise, Q3 for life.
shinwa
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden225 Posts
November 22 2010 07:41 GMT
#29
As always, Quake is the way to go. It has stayed true to itself for so many years. Quake Live is truly a testament to that.
eXiled
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands91 Posts
December 09 2010 17:57 GMT
#30
Hmm I think I understand now why the Call of Duty series has these weird things happening online where you are running into cover but still die, and the killcam shows you wasn't in cover. Or: you know for sure you fired but killcam shows not a shot fired by you. We have to thank antilag for this. People with higher ping actually have advantage in this game T_T

+ Show Spoiler +
There is no "disadvantage" to the net code of UE3. It works quite similar to UE2, and Red Orchestra 1 was widely regarded as having some of the best net-code around - with the game being very playable even up to a ping of 200ms. And considering I'm the guy that did the multiplayer network coding for RO1 and I'm doing a lot of it for RO2, you should see similar results in the end. Regarding AA3, I can't speak to it's network code since when I tried to play it it was back when the game wouldn't even function online right after it was released.

When it comes to visual representation of hits (i.e. displaying hit effects/particles) there are two methods possible, and both have their advantages/disadvantages.

Method 1) Calculate hit effects on the client. With this method you get instant feedback on where your bullet would hit (with hitscan weapons). This is great but there is one major flaw - where you see your bullet hit on the client doesn't actually represent where your bullet hit on the server since they are both calculated independently. This was the system that was used in Americas Army 2.X (which I worked on). This system is exasperated by randomness or cone fire, since to simulate the shot on the client you have to simulate the randomness you would also have on the server. The problem is, since it is random the client and the server will have different locations where the bullet will go. This is why in AA2.X you would very often actually see puffs of blood coming off of an enemy that you were shooting, but in reality you didn't hit them at all. Your client side simulated shot had hit them, but your server shot had not.

Method 2) Display hit effects on the client in the proper place by sending the information from the server on where the "real" hit actually happened. The disadvantage of this system is that there is a slight delay between when your shot is replicated to the server and when the hit location is replicated back down to your client. The advantage of this system is that when you see a hit effect appear it actually appears where the real hit happened on the server. In other words, when you see that you blood puffs appearing on an enemy that you shot, you are ACTUALLY damaging them.

In the original RO and since then I have been using method 2. I find the slight delay until the hit effect appears is far outweighed by never getting "false positives" and knowing where my bullets actually hit. Combine this with a non-hitscan system with full bullet ballistics where even if you are playing a non-network game there is a slight delay between when you fire and when your bullet hits, then the delay when playing online is almost not noticeable with a ping < 100 ms.

Also, in your case where you say your ping is 60 ms, but there is a delay 0.3 to 0.5 seconds (300-500ms) either there has to be something wrong with your network, the network between you and the server, or the people coding that particular game. Because in the standard "Method 2" system above, with a 60ms ping it would be about 120ms (or .12 seconds) before you saw the hit effects. Most likely it is a problem with your network, your computer, or your perception of time.

Finally, there are the games with the so called "lag compensation". I've never been a fan of this so called lag compensation because of the side effects it causes. If you have ever been playing an online game and walked completely around a corner only to die when noone could possibly have shot you, it was likely do to lag compensation. With these systems the server stores a list of locations and where a player was at a particular time. Then when a player shoots on his client it sends the firing info and a timestamp to the server. So when the server receives this information it basically "rewinds" back to the point in time when the client fired and checks to see if the shot from some time in the past would hit the player back then. The problem with this system is, that depending upon players ping everyone playing the game has a different view of where the other players are at a particular time. This is why on your machine you could be behind a wall, but the player (who you may not even be able to see on your machine) who has a higher ping than you sees you where you were a short time ago and shoots and kills you. So this is why I think lag compensation sucks

I prefer the Unreal net code methodology which uses client side prediction instead of lag compensation. When a programmer knows what they are doing and uses the Unreal net code properly client side prediction gives all of the clients connected to a server a very very close picture of where the other players are actually at on the server at all times. It does this by predicting the physics and movement of the other players. It does this pretty good for super-fast games like UT, and when you slow this down to real world movement speeds like in Red Orchestra this system is rock solid. In other words, in RO when you shoot at someone you can pretty much guarantee they are at where you see them at (up to a ping of 200ms). Likewise when you get SHOT by someone on RO, it was because they could see where you are currently at, not where you WERE a short time ago.

After coding MP network games for nearly ten years, this area is a bit near and dear to my heart, so I'll stop ranting now
Kralic
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2628 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-09 18:18:09
December 09 2010 18:15 GMT
#31
FPS games are a very hard game to get right to appeal to the masses(COD did that for the masses). There is not one right fps game and there is not one wrong fps game. If you want a hard fps to play you will have to dig deep and go into communities that are very small. Here is how I lump fps games.

Realism: These are games that take away anything "fun" and make the game a lot more challenging. Some examples would be, no hud, no crosshairs just iron sights, no unlimited sprinting and of course realistic damage. I liked these games but they had very small communities. Games that would fall into this category. Red Orchestra (I played this a ton when it was a mod and not retail), Insurgency (I was a internal beta tester for this game and stopped playing before it was released as a HL2 mod)

Arcade: Fun, nothing too realistic but lots of action and big guns. Games that I would put here. Unreal Tournament series, COD, Halo.

Competitive(?): Not sure what I can add it is a blend of realism(not the biggest blend) and arcade style. Games that would go in here. Quake series, Day of Defeat, Counter strike. (Most fps games are competitive).

There are many other FPS games out there and my categories are of course open for interpretation and not 100% set in stone.
Brood War forever!
Joementum
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
787 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-09 18:26:02
December 09 2010 18:19 GMT
#32
CoD2... Ahh. The memories.

It sucks that competitive gaming in FPS has almost disappeared.

Halo 2 - One of fastest paced online first person shooters (console!) with great competition everywhere.
Halo 3 - Still a lot of great competition. No more fast paced action though.
Halo: Reach - Absolute shit. You actually have to sprint around a map just to find ONE person to kill and if your lucky, he won't have something stupid and gimmicky like Armor Lock. I can't believe Halo went down this path >_>

CoD2 - Just perfect for a CoD game. Perfectly balanced game.
CoD3 - Not as great as CoD2, but it was still a good game. The class skills added a new element to the game that didn't make it too gimmicky.
CoD4 - Gimmicks, ahoy!
Anything after that - Absolute shit.

I just wish they would create more first person shooters like CoD2/Halo 2. Hell, remake them and I'll be happy.

On November 22 2010 11:55 h3r1n6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2010 02:37 limonovich wrote:
On November 22 2010 02:34 h3r1n6 wrote:
On November 22 2010 02:22 MightyAtom wrote:
But I'd say the Q3 was what SC was for RTS was for FPS.


True. And CS 1.6 is the same for team FPSs..


Why do you expect anything but crap from Activision, hasn't Battle.net 2.0 taught you anything? The worst part is, all the brainless retards put up with that crap and still buy CoD games.


In all honesty, the CoD games are actually fun to play on public. Not everyone buys games because they want to go to LANs, win prizes...etc. You have to remember that the vast majority of consumers are casual gamers and couldn't care less about competitive features.

tl;dr the troglodytes have to be catered for, they make up >90% of the revenues



Well, you might make a point for something like no console. But all I hear is that the game is really bugged, you can only get dedicated servers from one source, the dedicated servers still lag. Doesn't sound playable to me.

That CoD is not a game I enjoy is a whole different story.


Halo 2 was a highly competitive game and it still appealed to the masses. You don't have to have an FPS filled with gimmicks to make people want to buy it. Just give it some fun online play and you'll be set.
A marine walks into a bar and asks, "Wheres the counter?"
zyglrox
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1168 Posts
January 24 2011 03:01 GMT
#33
fps on the pc for me = ut99 instagib ctf and quake. i played cod 1 2 and 4 and mw2 on pc, each got shittier and more idiot friendly. mw2 is by far one of the easiest games ever and i spent a little while on it but eventually got bored and went back to real fps games.

still have ut2k4 and 99 installed and enjoyed them as there is a few small pug communties. i still play Tactical Ops which has been my main game on the pc since 2000-2001 and it still has a community and pick up games. (TOps = counter strike but with ut movement and a lot faster paced and no insta kill unless you're sniping)

never got into counter strike as i didn't enjoy the pace of play.

champagne for my real friends, and real pain for my sham friends.
zyglrox
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1168 Posts
January 24 2011 03:23 GMT
#34
On December 10 2010 03:19 Joementum wrote:
CoD2... Ahh. The memories.

It sucks that competitive gaming in FPS has almost disappeared.

Halo 2 - One of fastest paced online first person shooters (console!) with great competition everywhere.
Halo 3 - Still a lot of great competition. No more fast paced action though.
Halo: Reach - Absolute shit. You actually have to sprint around a map just to find ONE person to kill and if your lucky, he won't have something stupid and gimmicky like Armor Lock. I can't believe Halo went down this path >_>

CoD2 - Just perfect for a CoD game. Perfectly balanced game.
CoD3 - Not as great as CoD2, but it was still a good game. The class skills added a new element to the game that didn't make it too gimmicky.
CoD4 - Gimmicks, ahoy!
Anything after that - Absolute shit.

I just wish they would create more first person shooters like CoD2/Halo 2. Hell, remake them and I'll be happy.

Show nested quote +
On November 22 2010 11:55 h3r1n6 wrote:
On November 22 2010 02:37 limonovich wrote:
On November 22 2010 02:34 h3r1n6 wrote:
On November 22 2010 02:22 MightyAtom wrote:
But I'd say the Q3 was what SC was for RTS was for FPS.


True. And CS 1.6 is the same for team FPSs..


Why do you expect anything but crap from Activision, hasn't Battle.net 2.0 taught you anything? The worst part is, all the brainless retards put up with that crap and still buy CoD games.


In all honesty, the CoD games are actually fun to play on public. Not everyone buys games because they want to go to LANs, win prizes...etc. You have to remember that the vast majority of consumers are casual gamers and couldn't care less about competitive features.

tl;dr the troglodytes have to be catered for, they make up >90% of the revenues



Well, you might make a point for something like no console. But all I hear is that the game is really bugged, you can only get dedicated servers from one source, the dedicated servers still lag. Doesn't sound playable to me.

That CoD is not a game I enjoy is a whole different story.


Halo 2 was a highly competitive game and it still appealed to the masses. You don't have to have an FPS filled with gimmicks to make people want to buy it. Just give it some fun online play and you'll be set.



cod4 promod actually produced some sick gameplay. believe that you can still find some competition in that too.
champagne for my real friends, and real pain for my sham friends.
Tekin
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2711 Posts
January 24 2011 03:56 GMT
#35
I gotta say the state of fps on PC will never die I just watched the IEM Euro Finals for CS damn amazing finals it made me want to play cs competitive again.
Cheers! //¯◡◡¯\\ 문채원 | 한지우 -___-
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-24 04:09:09
January 24 2011 04:07 GMT
#36
On January 24 2011 12:01 zyglrox wrote:
fps on the pc for me = ut99 instagib ctf and quake. i played cod 1 2 and 4 and mw2 on pc, each got shittier and more idiot friendly. mw2 is by far one of the easiest games ever and i spent a little while on it but eventually got bored and went back to real fps games.

still have ut2k4 and 99 installed and enjoyed them as there is a few small pug communties. i still play Tactical Ops which has been my main game on the pc since 2000-2001 and it still has a community and pick up games. (TOps = counter strike but with ut movement and a lot faster paced and no insta kill unless you're sniping)

never got into counter strike as i didn't enjoy the pace of play.



You seem like someone who would enjoy Urban Terror. It is a standalone quake 3 mod.
And it is free btw.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
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