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God I hate this class. Anyone else taking it right now?
I cannot stand proofs. That is all we do, and it's so dumb because I know I'm not going to have to prove why that partially ordered sets cannot have more than one greatest element, or why two odd numbers added together are even outside of this class.
Classes like this piss me off. I cannot see any application of this class outside of algorithms and stuff. I don't even consider it a real class, it just feels like there's so much hand-waving going on - I'd kill to be able to go back to vector calc or any REAL math over this.
/rant
 
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Why do you have to take it then?
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Preach it brother! I've taken a lot of classes/seminars that promise one thing but then go into left field and forget about the original subject altogether. Complain to someone higher up and try to get the class removed for future students.
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discrete math is very very broad... but its a really cool branch of math.
i dunno, are u not good at proofs? generally ppl who are bad at proofs dont like courses like these, and conversely ppl who are good at proofs love the classes.
and discrete math is so applicable, you see it in like everything from combinatorics to probability (ie RVs with discrete distributions, outcomes)
have u taken real analysis or complex analysis? cause discrete math is more useful in the real world, in general, imo
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I feel the same way about psychology. I won't be doing any "conditioning" any time soon, I don't give a fuck if a dog salivates to a bell or footsteps, I don't understand why I have to learn all this nonsense to become a nurse..
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You cannot stand proofs.
You'd kill to do REAL math.
Contradiction. I have just proved you don't know what math is.
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On November 08 2010 09:50 Karliath wrote:
Why do you have to take it then?
Required for Computer Science majors at Penn State.
On November 08 2010 09:53 Oracle wrote:
discrete math is very very broad... but its a really cool branch of math.
i dunno, are u not good at proofs? generally ppl who are bad at proofs dont like courses like these, and conversely ppl who are good at proofs love the classes.
and discrete math is so applicable, you see it in like everything from combinatorics to probability (ie RVs with discrete distributions, outcomes)
have u taken real analysis or complex analysis? cause discrete math is more useful in the real world, in general, imo
I just can't get into it. I mean sure with recurrence, algorithms, probability and cryptography and all of that junk it's applicable, but god it's such a chore for me. I am not good at proofs and things that are super abstract. I was much more of a calculus 1/2/3 (vector) and matrices man.
On November 08 2010 09:52 Emon_ wrote:
Preach it brother! I've taken a lot of classes/seminars that promise one thing but then go into left field and forget about the original subject altogether. Complain to someone higher up and try to get the class removed for future students.
if only 
On November 08 2010 09:57 searcher wrote:
You cannot stand proofs.
You'd kill to do REAL math.
Contradiction. I have just proved you don't know what math is.
Ok let's change "real" to "continuous", will that do it? How about given the set of all mathematics, the definition of the word "real", and two arbitrary elements of your choice that you prove to me that I do not know what real mathematics is using structural induction? Seems like you'd like something sadistic like that.
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Ugh you're in the wrong field if you don't like discrete math.
Also how does someone "hate" proofs... they are instrumental to building up rigorous mathematical knowledge.
I used to be a math major, but I switched to computer science, mostly because i hated continuous math. Real analysis was boring and confusing as hell to me.
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If there was a software engineering degree here I'd have gone after that instead, but alas...
All of the info sessions I've gone to for big companies that have had co-ops and new hires talk to us never make any mention of having to use discrete math on the job, so I cannot say that the field is not for me.
It seems we are opposites. I love continuous math, and almost took differential equations as a gen ed but I couldn't find an appropriate time to squeeze it in. I also took the whole semester vector calc instead of the half semester one that was required
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On November 08 2010 09:54 Elegance wrote:
I feel the same way about psychology. I won't be doing any "conditioning" any time soon, I don't give a fuck if a dog salivates to a bell or footsteps, I don't understand why I have to learn all this nonsense to become a nurse..
If, by the end of studying to become a nurse, you don't understand the applications of what you learn in intro psych, you probably shouldn't be a nurse.
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I'm assuming you're taking it as part of a CS degree, especially given the algorithms reference? I hope you aren't a math major, because pretty much all math classes past calculus are very proof heavy.
Stuff like graph theory and combinatorics is very relevant to algorithms, in which you can also expect to be doing a lot of proofs. I didn't particularly enjoy Discrete or Algorithms - I'm more interested in programming than research - but they're still very important to be exposed to. Algorithms is a very important part of CS regardless of what you're planning to do in it. It's arguably the most important (if not most fun) part even if you're mostly into programming, as a lot of the difficulty in writing many programs is developing a solid algorithm - once that's done almost anyone who knows a language decently could write the actual code.
I'd try to get something out of the class even if it isn't much fun, it will help you later.
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On November 08 2010 10:02 Hizzo wrote:
If there was a software engineering degree here I'd have gone after that instead, but alas...
All of the info sessions I've gone to for big companies that have had co-ops and new hires talk to us never make any mention of having to use discrete math on the job, so I cannot say that the field is not for me.
It seems we are opposites. I love continuous math.
Well yeah if you just want to do basic programming it's probably not super important to have a vast knowledge of discrete math. However it's still very useful for understanding and developing algorithms. It also underpins most of the "science" part of computer science. Any classes you take that aren't just straight programming or software engineering will probably incorporate it.
I guess the best advice I can give you is either to find an application of it you like (there are a lot of cool areas of computer science), or grimace and bear through the class requirements so you can graduate and do some programming.
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Haha reminds me of my microeconomics class where we do nothing but consumption optimisation problems...
Let's say in the future you go into a job interview, and they ask you for your skills... "Hey, I know how to maximise somebody's utility through 2nd order calculus!" "huh you f**king high??"
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Thanks for the tip. I am trying to salvage something from it - I am more programming than anything as well. I was originally comp eng. because I am a huge hardware enthusiast but man...circuits suck.
On November 08 2010 10:08 5unrise wrote:
Haha reminds me of my microeconomics class where we do nothing but consumption optimisation problems...
Let's say in the future you go into a job interview, and they ask you for your skills... "Hey, I know how to maximise somebody's utility through 2nd order calculus!" "huh you f**king high??"
LOL. I had interviews with IBM and Lockheed Martin recently and it gave me a great deal of hope for the degree, because no question required an answer like that. I mean I had some technical questions but they were all in regards to things that I'd be doing and they wanted to make sure I had an idea of what was up.
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United States24701 Posts
As someone who did a lot of the continuous math (physics major) but none of the discrete, I often feel like I missed out on that and wish I knew it... I see the value of what I wish I knew :/
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On November 08 2010 10:07 Kashll wrote:
I guess the best advice I can give you is either to find an application of it you like (there are a lot of cool areas of computer science), or grimace and bear through the class requirements so you can graduate and do some programming.
This is exactly what I had in mind
On November 08 2010 10:09 micronesia wrote:
As someone who did a lot of the continuous math (physics major) but none of the discrete, I often feel like I missed out on that and wish I knew it... I see the value of what I wish I knew :/
It's too late now but otherwise I'd have offered you my seat.
I the last time I did proofs before this was in high school in some math and god that was a mess. I did well on everything until that part then oh man...not good.
In discrete math I was good until we got to relations. Then everything went downhill (still rolling down said hill).
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Discrete math can be useful depending on the type of computer science you want to get into. As you said it's important in algorithm development, and proofs. There is a whole branch of computer science for which discrete math is one of the more basic building blocks so it's generally a required course for computer science students to get them introduced to such concepts.
I think it's fine to have some courses like these since it introduces students who might now know what particular direction of their degree they want to go into. It's a good basic course to try and get students interested in stuff you wouldn't ever really hear/learn about outside of school.
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It certainly makes you think logically with regards to solving problems (helps problem solving too I'd say a good bit) but other that that I'm not getting too much out of it.
I certainly don't regret it but I don't particularly enjoy it
You guys are absolutely right in regards to direction within the field.
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Proofs are real math, the only real math. "Calculus" as you learned it actually isn't. One of the first classes you would do in theoretical math is Analysis where you re-derive the proofs of calculus on non-Euclidean metric spaces and see what still works even when you are operating on an abstract space with no physical interpretation.
Continuous applied mathematics is mostly done by engineering departments at a lot of universities nowadays (even though that's what I do).
+ Show Spoiler +While we're at it, "algebra" means something different than what you think it does too.
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