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Any experience Learning Japanese?

Blogs > Deltawolf
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1 2 Next All
Deltawolf
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States105 Posts
November 04 2010 02:56 GMT
#1
I have been using Livemocha and I did a little Rosetta Stone.. I have been learning audibly and using Romanji to learn to pronounce the words at least semi properly, but I don't wanna use that crutch too long and never be able to read in Japanese. Is it easier to try to force myself to learn it from the very beginning, or once I learn how to pronounce the words and get the gist of it, to go back and pick it up?

*****
* Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 04 2010 02:58 GMT
#2
What is your background? Do you have any knowledge of other East-Asian languages, such as Chinese or Korean? Do you have knowledge in linguistics? Have you learned/mastered other languages before?
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
November 04 2010 03:00 GMT
#3
Learning Japanese was probably one of my most painful experiences in University. I took three classes, did four months of exchange in a Japanese university, and spent nearly a year working in Tokyo, and my Japanese is still garbage.

How determined are you in learning it? If you are not 100% motivated, I would not bother. It's not an easy language to learn by any stretch unless you are Korean or Chinese (even then, it's still a bitch).
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Deltawolf
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States105 Posts
November 04 2010 03:06 GMT
#4
This is my first foreign language. I take a martial arts that I am passionate about, and I'd like to train in Japan for a 2 week - month long period. I am hoping to travel there about a year from now, so I'd at least like to be proficient enough to live and operate comfortably even if I'm not 100% fluent.
* Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
DCLXVI
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States729 Posts
November 04 2010 03:11 GMT
#5
I'm interested the answers to this too. I am learning chinese at my school now because they don't offer japanese, but next semester I will be transferring to a school that does. Would it be a good idea to immediately switch, or to stick with chinese a few years before transitioning to japanese?
I can already see the ending
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
November 04 2010 03:23 GMT
#6
learning japanese is incredibly difficult. memorizing hirigana and katankan is simply enough (just two sets of alphabets) but memorizing kanji? holy fuck shit T_T even japanese people have trouble with it lmao. you could get by knowing no kanji but that isn't ideal. if you would like , i can send you a link to my online japanese course. all the info is provided there for free by the awesome teacher ota sensei.
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-04 03:24:48
November 04 2010 03:23 GMT
#7
learning to read the hiragana and katakana is pretty trivial. just go and start, it shouldn't take more than a few days to memorize them. also it's a lot more helpful in learning new words and how they're actually pronounced if you know how it's written. kanji is a lot more of a commitment, but if you want to be able to read a newspaper or really any actual written material, you have to.

but if it's for something like manga, they generally have furigana except for the most common kanji.
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
November 04 2010 03:24 GMT
#8
I've been studying for about a year now, I took 2 classes at community college (a summer and a winter course last year) and self-studied the rest of the time. I vacationed in Japan 2 weeks ago. In terms of written Japanese I could roughly get around, but spoken Japanese was pretty awful... this was because most of my studying time (about half an hour to an hour a day) was spent purely with "smart" flashcards which was just written.

First of all, if you're gonna go for 2 weeks to a month, you'll be fine knowing very basic Japanese. With enough pointing and charades and very limited Japanese you can live there just fine. My cousin is doing that right now, and he lives in the countryside.

There are many different ways to start learning. I recommend taking introductory classes at community college, and supplementing it with self-study. Classes are great because they give you an overview of everything you need to know, and you can meet people in class. For self-study, I use a program called Anki to help me study, which are the smart flashcards I'm talking about. Instead of reviewing piles of sentences and words every day, Anki uses an optimization formula in order to help you memorize things for the long-term.

Kanji isn't as big a problem as people make it out to be. Read Kanjidamage. It makes perfect sense out of kanji and turns it from a pile of pictures into things you can easily understand. I would probably start out by taking classes and using the sentences and vocabulary words from Kanjidamage in Anki.

For additional practice with written Japanese, use Lang-8. If you need to practice spoken Japanese, make friends on Lang-8 and Skype with them. Many will be happy to help you out.

As you get better, you'll start hitting a stride and it will become easier to pick up new concepts and vocabulary but in the beginning it's just a grind-fest.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-04 03:40:17
November 04 2010 03:40 GMT
#9
On November 04 2010 12:06 Deltawolf wrote:
This is my first foreign language. I take a martial arts that I am passionate about, and I'd like to train in Japan for a 2 week - month long period. I am hoping to travel there about a year from now, so I'd at least like to be proficient enough to live and operate comfortably even if I'm not 100% fluent.


To live and operate comfortably have more to do with understanding the Japanese culture and social norms than being able to speak the language. For example, I think my language skill is pretty awful, but I know I can live very comfortably in Japan.

I think it's a good idea to take a few classes to get started, they provide structure, which is very important in starting a language. After you have a decent grasp on the basic grammar, you can probably try to learn it through a language partnership program (basically find someone who wants to learn English and do a verbal language exchange). Half of the battle is knowing enough common phrases.

Also, if you are not Chinese, you'll have a lot of problems reading signs in Japan. But luckily, almost all train stations have signs in both English and Japanese.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Deltawolf
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States105 Posts
November 04 2010 03:49 GMT
#10
I see. I have a few people that I train with that either frequent Japan or are from there, so they will be able to help me with the social norms/culture. They just don't have the time to TEACH me though I could probably practice on them once I become decent. That's why I'm using Livemocha, it is a community language partnership type thing, so I think I'm in the right direction. It uses Audio/written/peer review to help teach you.
Thanks guys you answered my question! Suck it up and learn it because it's not THAT hard but it isn't essential to my main mission :-p
@KainZero - checking out Lang-8 and kanjidamage as I will need to know Kanji down the road for some of the older manuscripts from my martial art.
* Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
Shana
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Indonesia1814 Posts
November 04 2010 04:09 GMT
#11
I studied japan on highschool and found no trouble with hira/katakana, but Kanji is so damn difficult.
Believing in what lies ahead. | That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
November 04 2010 04:10 GMT
#12
The vast amount of difficulty in learning Japanese is Kanji. The rest is just practice like any other language. Another issue is how many Japanese verbs are practically/nearly identically written/pronounced. This can make understanding difficult unless you have a firm grasp on your vocab and the context of the sentences.

You can make it surprisingly far in Japan as a tourist with just English. Learn just enough Japanese to be polite in very common social situations and then just fudge the rest. Like foreigners going to Korea, you can pick up some of it as you go along if you're motivated. Otherwise English, humility, and pointing can take you a long way.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
Deltawolf
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States105 Posts
November 04 2010 04:16 GMT
#13
Thanks for that Takkara. Training is sometimes out in the countryside though where English isn't as prevalent. So depending on the time of the year will greatly determine the amount of translators available when they are teaching. That is my main concern :-p That and ordering food lol
* Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
KurtistheTurtle
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1966 Posts
November 04 2010 04:24 GMT
#14
I've taken 4 years of Japanese in high school and completed my university's program in 2 years. The only thing I have to tell you is this: learn hiragana and katakana first. Don't bother with romaji as soon as you understand all the pronunciations
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears."
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
November 04 2010 04:43 GMT
#15
On November 04 2010 13:16 Deltawolf wrote:
Thanks for that Takkara. Training is sometimes out in the countryside though where English isn't as prevalent. So depending on the time of the year will greatly determine the amount of translators available when they are teaching. That is my main concern :-p That and ordering food lol


Where exactly?

I was in Tottori for four months, and even there, people spoke enough English for me to get my points across most of the time.

The thing about Japan is that people have to learn English in high school and University; they aren't actually that horrible at the language, they are just horribly shy.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Deltawolf
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States105 Posts
November 04 2010 04:57 GMT
#16
Just hearing stories from various other dojos and people so I can't necessarily say that that is truth because I haven't been yet :-p That is kind of relieving to hear that many will know English. Noda in the Chiba prefecture. Hopefully, that means something to you because I'm not well versed on all of this yet.
* Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
Zerokaiser
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada885 Posts
November 04 2010 05:17 GMT
#17
Like any language, the best way to learn it is to go to that country and immerse yourself.

Japanese is definitely one of the hardest languages to learn for an English speaker, but it's perfectly doable, you just need to apply yourself to it. But I'd be confident in saying 99% of people absolutely can not become anywhere near fluent without spending at LEAST over a year in Japan.

If you're serious about learning the language, then go to Japan and really apply yourself to learning. Don't try to get by on English and avoid tough situations. The fact that so many Japanese people can speak English is an invaluable learning aid for you, ask a ton of questions.
Lanaia is love.
fredd
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Estonia256 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-04 05:35:00
November 04 2010 05:33 GMT
#18
all these people saying japanese is one of the hardest languages have no clue really. yeah kanji is hard but the spoken part of japanese is relatively easy, and that's all you pretty much need from what you said. go for it. and rosetta stone doesn't work.
sup
Zerokaiser
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada885 Posts
November 04 2010 05:35 GMT
#19
On November 04 2010 14:33 fredd wrote:
all these people saying japanese is one of the hardest languages have no clue really


spoken japanese is relatively easy, and that's all you pretty much need from what you said.


Japanese has a completely different grammatical form, and most of the language is completely alien to an English speaker. The toughest languages for English speakers to learn are those like Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Arabic, Polish...
Lanaia is love.
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
November 04 2010 05:38 GMT
#20
There is a wonderful Japanese site called Smart.fm that teaches Japanese. It mainly focuses on memory and speed learning.

It also teaches Chinese, Korean, Geography and other subjects as well. Very very good site.
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