EPTYou still have not explained why we need a villain or a terrible uncharismatic BM player as the main representative of the world in Korea. Imagine if IdrA was actually respectful to opponents and gained practice partners, analyzed his own play more instead of criticism, showed some personality when he wins or loses. Maybe he'd have an actual fanbase over there. 10 years later ElkY is actually well known and liked, you think in 10 years anyone is going to remember Grack as anything but a bm foreigner who never won anything?
Korean Netizen Response to Zenio's Ceremony - Page 11
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
You still have not explained why we need a villain or a terrible uncharismatic BM player as the main representative of the world in Korea. Imagine if IdrA was actually respectful to opponents and gained practice partners, analyzed his own play more instead of criticism, showed some personality when he wins or loses. Maybe he'd have an actual fanbase over there. 10 years later ElkY is actually well known and liked, you think in 10 years anyone is going to remember Grack as anything but a bm foreigner who never won anything? | ||
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hkfosho
Canada213 Posts
On November 01 2010 09:50 infinity2k9 wrote: You've followed the scene but apparently forgot the incidents of IdrA shit-talking and being made to look a fool as well. You criticize me for not having any additional argument when you just typed 3 sentences irrelevant to the topic? Hrm... You still have not explained why we need a villain or a terrible uncharismatic BM player as the main representative of the world in Korea. Imagine if IdrA was actually respectful to opponents and gained practice partners, analyzed his own play more instead of criticism, showed some personality when he wins or loses. Maybe he'd have an actual fanbase over there. 10 years later ElkY is actually well known and liked, you think in 10 years anyone is going to remember Grack as anything but a bm foreigner who never won anything? Totatlly agree, idra is not only making himself look bad, but the foreigner scene as well with his shitty attitude... I'm surprised ppl actually believed he had a huge fanbase in Korea The only ppl who worship his bm persona are the morons in this forum who think it's "unique" or awesome to act rebellious and be known as the hated one. Sure, it shows that he's got "personality" and love for the game (I guess?) but if you're gonna act cocky, at least back it up with skill. He's almost like naniwa, both immature and disrespectful to their opponents, yet both lack skill to back up their bm. And why are ppl saying Koreans have their heads up their asses due to their "pride"? Would you shrug it off if someone bashed on your cultural ethics just because of a game? The Koreans have every right to trash talk idra as I'm sure he's said worse things than "fucking kimchi man" on ladder. Going as far as attacking their culture over a loss idra? Do us a favour and stop acting like you're in high school, otherwise keep yourself away from the pro-scene. | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
[ Now. Where the fuck is idra acting like a whiny baby. Where the FUCK is he acting like a whiny baby. Need I repeat again? WHERE the FUCK is idra acting like a WHINY BABY. You don't seem to even have an idea about what he has been through, he endured 2 years in korea in a team where everyone treats him as an outsider, where he doesn't have anyone (expect the occasional artosis or tasteless) to talk to, where he has to work like a monster every day with almost no holidays with no major successes. (im talking bw) You don't ever seem to think about anything from his perspective, you just think of something new and cool to say that would bash him and say it. Idra may be bad mannered, and may be a dick(honest dick), but he is definetly not a shy nerd who think's he's cool. quite a hilarious example of idra acting like a WHINY BABY | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On November 01 2010 08:51 infinity2k9 wrote: He wasn't good enough to be on any A-Team, that's why he lost in both Dream league matches he played and lost every OSL/MSL qualification match except in the last one. CJ isn't deep enough that he couldn't even make a Dream League spot consistently. Nothing indicates he was legitimately good enough at all and i think you could make a pretty strong argument that he is infact lacking in natural talent at SC compared to someone like Nony, who won TSL2 fairly easily after a long break. IdrA was still only winning about 60% of games against Ret, despite playing 12 hours a day in a T favoured matchup. I can't say i ever saw a genuinely impressive BW IdrA game. All i saw was almost 100% standard macro builds against inferior foreign players who played less and therefore had less mechanically ability. It's just unfortunate we didn't have time to get some kids out in Korea with real natural talent like Kolll or Morrow, or intelligent players like F91. Now he's got a headstart in SC2 everyone seems to assume he's now actually a good player, yet he still suffers from the exact same faults. I wouldn't be surprised about a RO64 exit next tournament depending on the brackets then eventually a non-qualification as players with skill other than mechanics take over. I wont claim that you haven't watched a lot of PL (since I don't know you)... but there are some seriously weak players that got matches from time to time. I'm not saying IdrA would have done well on the A-Team, far from it, but he indeed was better than some players who got time in the PL. His games against foreigners were heavily macro oriented... I (along with most people) think he probably should have added a little cheese from time to time but we also all understand why he chose to go macro oriented safe, standard builds so often. Also, Ret was very good at BW himself as was evidence by several of his victories over B-Teamers and taking a game off Nada at Blizzcon in a pure macro game. However, I will take some more time to address your last point as it's something that people who underestimate IdrA point to over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. People cooonstantly talk about him being "robotic", lacking in game sense, or susceptible to cheese. I've seen no reason to believe IdrA is more susceptable to cheese than any other player.... What I have seen is IdrA is more susceptable to BEING cheesed than any other player, however. I don't expect everybody to think IdrA is the best player in the world and some favorite to win any tournament he enters... but sooner or later people will have to open their eyes to how good he is and can be. Everybody loses, but around here only IdrA's losses come with so much overblown analysis. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
I wonder if the Netizens went after them as much or this is getting multiplied because of Gracky's nationality. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On November 01 2010 09:50 infinity2k9 wrote: You've followed the scene but apparently forgot the incidents of IdrA shit-talking and being made to look a fool as well. You criticize me for not having any additional argument when you just typed 3 sentences irrelevant to the topic? Hrm... You still have not explained why we need a villain or a terrible uncharismatic BM player as the main representative of the world in Korea. Imagine if IdrA was actually respectful to opponents and gained practice partners, analyzed his own play more instead of criticism, showed some personality when he wins or loses. Maybe he'd have an actual fanbase over there. 10 years later ElkY is actually well known and liked, you think in 10 years anyone is going to remember Grack as anything but a bm foreigner who never won anything? You're talking a lot of trash about him and what have you achieved? I'm not defending his BM- he's made his mistakes but I respect the fact he made it as far as he has in the GSL plus his determination to stay on a proleague team when many other foreigners couldn't hack it. There are plenty of other foreigners who carry the mantle of being Mr Nice Guy (TLO, etc.) In the end who cares if he has a fanbase in Korea or not? Edit: It really is funny to go through this thread and read the regdates of the IdrA supporters. You were all not even fucking around for before so you should not even comment. And bashing people because of their 'regdates' is pretty lame. Not everyone who supports Idra is new to TL. | ||
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polarwolf
924 Posts
Idra is just a trash-talker (4-1 against F91, 3-0 against Nony) who cannot back up his foul mouth with results. He had it coming and he deserves it. User was warned for this post | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On November 02 2010 20:21 polarwolf wrote: Free is a much more accomplished BW player than Idra and Idra is in no way in a position to criticize him in the way he did. Idra is just a trash-talker (4-1 against F91, 3-0 against Nony) who cannot back up his foul mouth with results. He had it coming and he deserves it. lol You do realize you don't have to be better than someone to know if they play bad? And that IdrA has some of the best tournament results of all nonkorean BW/SC2 players? oh noes he's mean on the internet | ||
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cskalias.pbe
United States293 Posts
That said he must be happy that Zenio is helping draw interest with his ceremony? Nah, nm. I understand he has a clan, and I understand he has talent, and I even understand how he may have had a shitty time in Korea and holds a (justified?) grudge, but do people really believe he can thrive if the best potential practice partners hate him? | ||
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news
892 Posts
On November 01 2010 11:53 hkfosho wrote: I'm surprised ppl actually believed he had a huge fanbase in Korea The only ppl who worship his bm persona are the morons in this forum ? | ||
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news
892 Posts
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Darcikon
United Kingdom16 Posts
Being isolated from your teammates and the country that has the biggest starcraft following in the world cannot possibly be a good thing. Personally I like the fact that he is emotional about his wins and losses but it all comes across as negative and he does constantly bad mouth other players which is hardly going to win him any friends. If he ends up switching clans again he's going to have to be careful which clans and members he's insulted. I look forward to seeing his games but I just hope that he tones the BM down. | ||
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vek
Australia936 Posts
On November 02 2010 17:35 tomatriedes wrote: I personally found some of FBH's ceremonies just as BM as the stuff Idra typed plus I heard gogo used to bm a lot too. I wonder if the Netizens went after them as much or this is getting multiplied because of Gracky's nationality. Firebathero was always hilarious: + Show Spoiler + That is the kind of personality I like progamers to have. Even though I respect Idra as one of the best foreign players he just ends up embarassing himself with his bad manners way too often which opens him up for getting owned like he did on live TV. Really it was bound to happen sooner or later. If you can't back up your trash talk or be funny about it then don't bother. Watching ceremonies by Zenio/Firebathero makes me laugh and in turn I have a good time, sure they are slightly BM but it's all good fun - I don't think anyone takes what they do seriously. Idra's BM just makes me cringe the same way I do when I see 12 year olds duking it out in WoW general chat. It's just embarassing to watch. I don't think nationality has anything to do with it. It doesn't matter where you are from, Idra has said some retardedly stupid things. The netizen responses are comedy gold. If Idra came out with creative trash talk like that rather than the rubbish he's been spewing for years I'd be a much bigger fan. | ||
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Otakusan
United States59 Posts
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zerglingsfolife
United States1694 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=102411¤tpage=5#81 Please stop saying IdrA is BM. You are just ignorant | ||
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RandomAccount#106470
Lithuania1506 Posts
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LazyMacro
976 Posts
On October 30 2010 11:34 infinitestory wrote: it seems that the name "grack" will be sticking around for a while Where did the name come from? o.o | ||
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scDeluX
Canada1341 Posts
Slayers Boxer called him Grack in a ladder game | ||
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LazyMacro
976 Posts
On December 02 2010 03:02 ScDeluX wrote: Slayers Boxer called him Grack in a ladder game rofl Typo or deliberate? | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On November 01 2010 15:31 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I wont claim that you haven't watched a lot of PL (since I don't know you)... but there are some seriously weak players that got matches from time to time. I'm not saying IdrA would have done well on the A-Team, far from it, but he indeed was better than some players who got time in the PL. His games against foreigners were heavily macro oriented... I (along with most people) think he probably should have added a little cheese from time to time but we also all understand why he chose to go macro oriented safe, standard builds so often. Also, Ret was very good at BW himself as was evidence by several of his victories over B-Teamers and taking a game off Nada at Blizzcon in a pure macro game. However, I will take some more time to address your last point as it's something that people who underestimate IdrA point to over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. People cooonstantly talk about him being "robotic", lacking in game sense, or susceptible to cheese. I've seen no reason to believe IdrA is more susceptable to cheese than any other player.... What I have seen is IdrA is more susceptable to BEING cheesed than any other player, however. I don't expect everybody to think IdrA is the best player in the world and some favorite to win any tournament he enters... but sooner or later people will have to open their eyes to how good he is and can be. Everybody loses, but around here only IdrA's losses come with so much overblown analysis. Idk about that, i've seen some really sad games in proleague but Idra vs F91 man.. The issue I have with Idra is that he keeps going "safe standard" builds but loses anyway in the early game. Thus the only conclusion I can come up with is that his standard play just isn't up to par. Like no one dares cheese Flash because they know it won't work. Aggressive play is usually the best way to beat a less skilled opponent and I think that's why Idra gets cheesed a lot. Sooner or later, people will have to open their eyes to how he's not delivering any results. Ever. We waited years for something to happen in Broodwar and still nothing. Even in foreign tournaments, Idra was not really delivering. And the sc2 scene will only attract more and more good players which will just raise the skill ceiling even higher. EDIT: he had it coming anyway, I was getting so sick of his BM and poor results. Even FBH manages to put up good games vs A-team players. Idra never even got televised | ||
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