• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:16
CEST 08:16
KST 15:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists5Team TLMC #5: Vote to Decide Ladder Maps!0
Community News
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)60Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition285.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 154
StarCraft 2
General
TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon
Tourneys
SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More Mutation # 491 Night Drive
Brood War
General
Any rep analyzer that shows resources situation? Whose hotkey signature is this? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I'm making videos again
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop the Construction YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1150 users

Essence of ZvT (SC2)

Blogs > cocoa_sg
Post a Reply
cocoa_sg
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Singapore296 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-25 21:27:30
October 25 2010 20:43 GMT
#1
The way I see it, Zerg is very dominating now in late-game, mainly due to the threat of baneling drops, the trademark move of Cool (Fruitdealer).

Let's recall Season 1: Terrans were heavily favored everywhere. Zergs were struggling. Yet, from out of nowhere, Cool came and demolished HopeTorture (ITR). If Blizzard viewed Season 1 as an incentive to buff up zergs, Cool winning Season 1 was indeed very unexpected.

Now, let's go over Season 2: Terrans are in constant fear of baneling drops. They are mobile bombs, unlike the immobile land mines of BW. Not only that, they can be focus-targeted manually, instead of automatically being triggered only (i.e. the land mines of BW in point).

That is such the beauty of Zerg dominance right now, that it makes me cringe to even think about it. Even if a Terran tries to sacrifice an unit to a mass of banelings, a smart Zerg can just maneuver the banelings PAST the unit and towards the main Terran army line.

And now, banelings can be dropped from overlords too! Indeed a scary thought...

It is such a conflicting paradigm that Terrans have to play in fear of whether to expect either a land baneling assault or an air baneling drop raid by overlords.

So then let's look at the possible counters, shall we?

Maybe Vikings could deal with the mass of overlords carrying banelings. What about land-based ones? If a Zerg decides to assault with both air and land-based banelings at the same time, Terrans will be hard-pressed to fall back naturally. And VOILA, here is where Fungal Growth becomes useful!

Now, here is where you all come in, discuss what a Terran can do to counter both land and air-based baneling assaults at the same time.

EDIT: Since banelings are considered cost-ineffective against anything other than marines, however, I would digress to say that baneling drops were shown to be very effective on masses of tanks, paving the way for the main zerg army to overwhelm the remaining troops, per se. *shrugs*

Member of the "Afrotoss be rapin" crew ! Join now by copy/pasting this - || - I do not play BW or SC2, but I am a rabid fanboy! =D
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
October 25 2010 20:51 GMT
#2
you should check out BratOK vs Ret from latest craftcup finals.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
cocoa_sg
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Singapore296 Posts
October 25 2010 20:53 GMT
#3
On October 26 2010 05:51 Sfydjklm wrote:
you should check out BratOK vs Ret from latest craftcup finals.


Can you link me to the VOD's? I do not know where to search for that, but thanks!
Member of the "Afrotoss be rapin" crew ! Join now by copy/pasting this - || - I do not play BW or SC2, but I am a rabid fanboy! =D
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
October 25 2010 20:55 GMT
#4
http://www.bitsperbeat.com/sc2/?site=brackets&tID=281#grid
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
NukeTheBunnys
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1004 Posts
October 25 2010 20:55 GMT
#5
I think the threat is a bit overstated considering the amount of micro it takes to do this effectively. That being said tanks to take out the banelings on the ground, or a wall of mauraders in front of the marines to just soak up the damage and some viking support to stop the drops

Or of course you could go mech and not have to worry about banelings since they are so horribly cost ineffective vs anything but marines.

If the zerg is going MASS baneling as they would need to be to have concurrent drops and ground forces moving in they wont have much else, you wouldn't need to save anywhere near all all your troops, just a token force to match what they have left after all the banelings go boom
When you play the game of drones you win or you die.
cocoa_sg
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Singapore296 Posts
October 25 2010 21:04 GMT
#6
I guess that could be the case. With a very good economy however, a Zerg will be able to afford producing mass banelings while developing the main army, as in the case of Cool/Fruitdealer and even Idra. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Member of the "Afrotoss be rapin" crew ! Join now by copy/pasting this - || - I do not play BW or SC2, but I am a rabid fanboy! =D
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
October 25 2010 21:07 GMT
#7
Overlords are not faster than speed banelings so while those banelings are protected from the splash there are only 4 per overlord in addition the zerg is risking his floating supply as well as investing gas into drop tech in order to perform something that you can just stim and micro your units away from.

Just be mindfull that a baneling costs 50 minerals and 25 gas if you include the 25 minerals pr zergling cost.


So regardless of what they blow up unless its not marines its not really cost efficient.

If his army composition lacks anti air for instance there is nothing preventing you from loading up your medivacs with marines and then dropping them down once the sea of banelings have passed.

thanks for making this blog ima go watch me some craftcup finals. ;D
"Mudkip"
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-25 21:33:48
October 25 2010 21:32 GMT
#8
Fighting off the banelings isn't going to be about composition as much as it's going to be about unit control. You need to spread units out, be wary of siege positioning, draw back your units in a timely fashion, make sure the right units are in front, be quick on ability usage (SM and Snipe especially).

The overlords are pretty squishy targets at 200hp with 300/200 resources invested, so downing them is worth quite a lot. Meanwhile even if you lose a significant # of marines you have to consider how much the zerg is giving up. Even a moderate amount of success in thinning out the banelings can tip the efficiency scale in your favor.

With the overlords especially don't be shy about pulling units away. Say you 'abandon' a Thor by pulling back your marines. If you snipe even one of those overlords without being rained on, you've paid for the Thor.

Logo
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
October 25 2010 21:34 GMT
#9
I don't even use blings vs Terran currently. Can't say I miss my imba unit tbh.
My. Copy. Is. Here.
ThE.SparkZ
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States381 Posts
October 25 2010 21:49 GMT
#10
Play how TLO did in the first GSL. Maurader Tank Hellion Thor Viking. Banelings are stupid against that and you can't tech to mutas fast enough to hold it off, you have to go roach and it's still extremely powerful against it.
A battle between gods is just so damn beautiful
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10777 Posts
October 25 2010 22:11 GMT
#11
Would all be nice and dandy... If not every Terran i meet would go Hellion/Thor + Marauder or Marine or Viking depending on my army composition.
Chriamon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States886 Posts
October 25 2010 22:38 GMT
#12
On October 26 2010 06:32 Logo wrote:
[...]The overlords are pretty squishy targets at 200hp with 300/200 resources invested, so downing them is worth quite a lot. Meanwhile even if you lose a significant # of marines you have to consider how much the zerg is giving up. Even a moderate amount of success in thinning out the banelings can tip the efficiency scale in your favor.
[...]

The main problem is that thors don't kill ovies fast at all, you have to kill them with marines. If the Z flanks with mutas and zlings the T is hard pressed on which target to focus. If the Z notices you focus ovies, he could just send in empty ovies with his zlings and w banelings on ground and such.
In every game where i've had enough time to get mutas and banelings with drop, I have dominated for the rest of the game. I think Ts still need more time to learn how to deal with this, mutas force marine + thor, and banes rape your marines from the ground and from the sky.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/274906/1/Blaze/
cocoa_sg
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Singapore296 Posts
October 26 2010 03:06 GMT
#13
On October 26 2010 07:38 Chriamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2010 06:32 Logo wrote:
[...]The overlords are pretty squishy targets at 200hp with 300/200 resources invested, so downing them is worth quite a lot. Meanwhile even if you lose a significant # of marines you have to consider how much the zerg is giving up. Even a moderate amount of success in thinning out the banelings can tip the efficiency scale in your favor.
[...]

The main problem is that thors don't kill ovies fast at all, you have to kill them with marines. If the Z flanks with mutas and zlings the T is hard pressed on which target to focus. If the Z notices you focus ovies, he could just send in empty ovies with his zlings and w banelings on ground and such.
In every game where i've had enough time to get mutas and banelings with drop, I have dominated for the rest of the game. I think Ts still need more time to learn how to deal with this, mutas force marine + thor, and banes rape your marines from the ground and from the sky.


Indeed, you took the words out of my mouth. The diversity with which zerg users can now attack, coupled with the dangerous threat of banelings, whether it be drops or land assaults, really forces terrans to micro much more, putting them under more stress than necessary. This may be why terrans are faltering so much against zerg players in GSL Season 2.

Of course, it is still too early to tell for sure. Cool and Idra have yet to meet the better terran players, like for example, MVP and etc. Let's see how Season 2 will play out to the end!
Member of the "Afrotoss be rapin" crew ! Join now by copy/pasting this - || - I do not play BW or SC2, but I am a rabid fanboy! =D
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 44m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft736
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 953
ToSsGirL 29
ajuk12(nOOB) 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm121
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K973
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor158
Other Games
summit1g9331
Mew2King97
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick701
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Light_VIP 32
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler26
League of Legends
• Lourlo2307
• Stunt584
• HappyZerGling77
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 44m
Map Test Tournament
4h 44m
Zoun vs Spirit
Reynor vs herO
Clem vs MaxPax
OSC
5h 44m
IPSL
12h 44m
Bonyth vs Art_Of_Turtle
Razz vs rasowy
Afreeca Starleague
1d 3h
Barracks vs Snow
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs Bisu
OSC
2 days
OSC
2 days
The PondCast
4 days
OSC
4 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Safe House 2
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
Maestros of the Game
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
WardiTV TLMC #15
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.