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The way I see it, Zerg is very dominating now in late-game, mainly due to the threat of baneling drops, the trademark move of Cool (Fruitdealer).
Let's recall Season 1: Terrans were heavily favored everywhere. Zergs were struggling. Yet, from out of nowhere, Cool came and demolished HopeTorture (ITR). If Blizzard viewed Season 1 as an incentive to buff up zergs, Cool winning Season 1 was indeed very unexpected.
Now, let's go over Season 2: Terrans are in constant fear of baneling drops. They are mobile bombs, unlike the immobile land mines of BW. Not only that, they can be focus-targeted manually, instead of automatically being triggered only (i.e. the land mines of BW in point).
That is such the beauty of Zerg dominance right now, that it makes me cringe to even think about it. Even if a Terran tries to sacrifice an unit to a mass of banelings, a smart Zerg can just maneuver the banelings PAST the unit and towards the main Terran army line.
And now, banelings can be dropped from overlords too! Indeed a scary thought...
It is such a conflicting paradigm that Terrans have to play in fear of whether to expect either a land baneling assault or an air baneling drop raid by overlords.
So then let's look at the possible counters, shall we?
Maybe Vikings could deal with the mass of overlords carrying banelings. What about land-based ones? If a Zerg decides to assault with both air and land-based banelings at the same time, Terrans will be hard-pressed to fall back naturally. And VOILA, here is where Fungal Growth becomes useful!
Now, here is where you all come in, discuss what a Terran can do to counter both land and air-based baneling assaults at the same time.
EDIT: Since banelings are considered cost-ineffective against anything other than marines, however, I would digress to say that baneling drops were shown to be very effective on masses of tanks, paving the way for the main zerg army to overwhelm the remaining troops, per se. *shrugs*
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you should check out BratOK vs Ret from latest craftcup finals.
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On October 26 2010 05:51 Sfydjklm wrote:
you should check out BratOK vs Ret from latest craftcup finals.
Can you link me to the VOD's? I do not know where to search for that, but thanks!
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I think the threat is a bit overstated considering the amount of micro it takes to do this effectively. That being said tanks to take out the banelings on the ground, or a wall of mauraders in front of the marines to just soak up the damage and some viking support to stop the drops
Or of course you could go mech and not have to worry about banelings since they are so horribly cost ineffective vs anything but marines.
If the zerg is going MASS baneling as they would need to be to have concurrent drops and ground forces moving in they wont have much else, you wouldn't need to save anywhere near all all your troops, just a token force to match what they have left after all the banelings go boom
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I guess that could be the case. With a very good economy however, a Zerg will be able to afford producing mass banelings while developing the main army, as in the case of Cool/Fruitdealer and even Idra. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
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Overlords are not faster than speed banelings so while those banelings are protected from the splash there are only 4 per overlord in addition the zerg is risking his floating supply as well as investing gas into drop tech in order to perform something that you can just stim and micro your units away from.
Just be mindfull that a baneling costs 50 minerals and 25 gas if you include the 25 minerals pr zergling cost.
So regardless of what they blow up unless its not marines its not really cost efficient.
If his army composition lacks anti air for instance there is nothing preventing you from loading up your medivacs with marines and then dropping them down once the sea of banelings have passed.
thanks for making this blog ima go watch me some craftcup finals. ;D
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Fighting off the banelings isn't going to be about composition as much as it's going to be about unit control. You need to spread units out, be wary of siege positioning, draw back your units in a timely fashion, make sure the right units are in front, be quick on ability usage (SM and Snipe especially).
The overlords are pretty squishy targets at 200hp with 300/200 resources invested, so downing them is worth quite a lot. Meanwhile even if you lose a significant # of marines you have to consider how much the zerg is giving up. Even a moderate amount of success in thinning out the banelings can tip the efficiency scale in your favor.
With the overlords especially don't be shy about pulling units away. Say you 'abandon' a Thor by pulling back your marines. If you snipe even one of those overlords without being rained on, you've paid for the Thor.
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I don't even use blings vs Terran currently. Can't say I miss my imba unit tbh.
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Play how TLO did in the first GSL. Maurader Tank Hellion Thor Viking. Banelings are stupid against that and you can't tech to mutas fast enough to hold it off, you have to go roach and it's still extremely powerful against it.
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Would all be nice and dandy... If not every Terran i meet would go Hellion/Thor + Marauder or Marine or Viking depending on my army composition.
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On October 26 2010 06:32 Logo wrote:
[...]The overlords are pretty squishy targets at 200hp with 300/200 resources invested, so downing them is worth quite a lot. Meanwhile even if you lose a significant # of marines you have to consider how much the zerg is giving up. Even a moderate amount of success in thinning out the banelings can tip the efficiency scale in your favor.
[...]
The main problem is that thors don't kill ovies fast at all, you have to kill them with marines. If the Z flanks with mutas and zlings the T is hard pressed on which target to focus. If the Z notices you focus ovies, he could just send in empty ovies with his zlings and w banelings on ground and such.
In every game where i've had enough time to get mutas and banelings with drop, I have dominated for the rest of the game. I think Ts still need more time to learn how to deal with this, mutas force marine + thor, and banes rape your marines from the ground and from the sky.
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On October 26 2010 07:38 Chriamon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2010 06:32 Logo wrote:
[...]The overlords are pretty squishy targets at 200hp with 300/200 resources invested, so downing them is worth quite a lot. Meanwhile even if you lose a significant # of marines you have to consider how much the zerg is giving up. Even a moderate amount of success in thinning out the banelings can tip the efficiency scale in your favor.
[...]
The main problem is that thors don't kill ovies fast at all, you have to kill them with marines. If the Z flanks with mutas and zlings the T is hard pressed on which target to focus. If the Z notices you focus ovies, he could just send in empty ovies with his zlings and w banelings on ground and such. In every game where i've had enough time to get mutas and banelings with drop, I have dominated for the rest of the game. I think Ts still need more time to learn how to deal with this, mutas force marine + thor, and banes rape your marines from the ground and from the sky.
Indeed, you took the words out of my mouth. The diversity with which zerg users can now attack, coupled with the dangerous threat of banelings, whether it be drops or land assaults, really forces terrans to micro much more, putting them under more stress than necessary. This may be why terrans are faltering so much against zerg players in GSL Season 2.
Of course, it is still too early to tell for sure. Cool and Idra have yet to meet the better terran players, like for example, MVP and etc. Let's see how Season 2 will play out to the end!
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EPT
