• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:43
CEST 15:43
KST 22:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris23Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : 2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Flash On His 2010 "God" Form, Mind Games, vs JD BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Joined effort New season has just come in ladder
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group C [ASL20] Ro24 Group B BWCL Season 63 Announcement [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The year 2050 Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Breaking the Meta: Non-Stand…
TrAiDoS
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2159 users

Essence of ZvT (SC2)

Blogs > cocoa_sg
Post a Reply
cocoa_sg
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Singapore296 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-25 21:27:30
October 25 2010 20:43 GMT
#1
The way I see it, Zerg is very dominating now in late-game, mainly due to the threat of baneling drops, the trademark move of Cool (Fruitdealer).

Let's recall Season 1: Terrans were heavily favored everywhere. Zergs were struggling. Yet, from out of nowhere, Cool came and demolished HopeTorture (ITR). If Blizzard viewed Season 1 as an incentive to buff up zergs, Cool winning Season 1 was indeed very unexpected.

Now, let's go over Season 2: Terrans are in constant fear of baneling drops. They are mobile bombs, unlike the immobile land mines of BW. Not only that, they can be focus-targeted manually, instead of automatically being triggered only (i.e. the land mines of BW in point).

That is such the beauty of Zerg dominance right now, that it makes me cringe to even think about it. Even if a Terran tries to sacrifice an unit to a mass of banelings, a smart Zerg can just maneuver the banelings PAST the unit and towards the main Terran army line.

And now, banelings can be dropped from overlords too! Indeed a scary thought...

It is such a conflicting paradigm that Terrans have to play in fear of whether to expect either a land baneling assault or an air baneling drop raid by overlords.

So then let's look at the possible counters, shall we?

Maybe Vikings could deal with the mass of overlords carrying banelings. What about land-based ones? If a Zerg decides to assault with both air and land-based banelings at the same time, Terrans will be hard-pressed to fall back naturally. And VOILA, here is where Fungal Growth becomes useful!

Now, here is where you all come in, discuss what a Terran can do to counter both land and air-based baneling assaults at the same time.

EDIT: Since banelings are considered cost-ineffective against anything other than marines, however, I would digress to say that baneling drops were shown to be very effective on masses of tanks, paving the way for the main zerg army to overwhelm the remaining troops, per se. *shrugs*

Member of the "Afrotoss be rapin" crew ! Join now by copy/pasting this - || - I do not play BW or SC2, but I am a rabid fanboy! =D
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
October 25 2010 20:51 GMT
#2
you should check out BratOK vs Ret from latest craftcup finals.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
cocoa_sg
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Singapore296 Posts
October 25 2010 20:53 GMT
#3
On October 26 2010 05:51 Sfydjklm wrote:
you should check out BratOK vs Ret from latest craftcup finals.


Can you link me to the VOD's? I do not know where to search for that, but thanks!
Member of the "Afrotoss be rapin" crew ! Join now by copy/pasting this - || - I do not play BW or SC2, but I am a rabid fanboy! =D
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
October 25 2010 20:55 GMT
#4
http://www.bitsperbeat.com/sc2/?site=brackets&tID=281#grid
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
NukeTheBunnys
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1004 Posts
October 25 2010 20:55 GMT
#5
I think the threat is a bit overstated considering the amount of micro it takes to do this effectively. That being said tanks to take out the banelings on the ground, or a wall of mauraders in front of the marines to just soak up the damage and some viking support to stop the drops

Or of course you could go mech and not have to worry about banelings since they are so horribly cost ineffective vs anything but marines.

If the zerg is going MASS baneling as they would need to be to have concurrent drops and ground forces moving in they wont have much else, you wouldn't need to save anywhere near all all your troops, just a token force to match what they have left after all the banelings go boom
When you play the game of drones you win or you die.
cocoa_sg
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Singapore296 Posts
October 25 2010 21:04 GMT
#6
I guess that could be the case. With a very good economy however, a Zerg will be able to afford producing mass banelings while developing the main army, as in the case of Cool/Fruitdealer and even Idra. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Member of the "Afrotoss be rapin" crew ! Join now by copy/pasting this - || - I do not play BW or SC2, but I am a rabid fanboy! =D
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
October 25 2010 21:07 GMT
#7
Overlords are not faster than speed banelings so while those banelings are protected from the splash there are only 4 per overlord in addition the zerg is risking his floating supply as well as investing gas into drop tech in order to perform something that you can just stim and micro your units away from.

Just be mindfull that a baneling costs 50 minerals and 25 gas if you include the 25 minerals pr zergling cost.


So regardless of what they blow up unless its not marines its not really cost efficient.

If his army composition lacks anti air for instance there is nothing preventing you from loading up your medivacs with marines and then dropping them down once the sea of banelings have passed.

thanks for making this blog ima go watch me some craftcup finals. ;D
"Mudkip"
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-25 21:33:48
October 25 2010 21:32 GMT
#8
Fighting off the banelings isn't going to be about composition as much as it's going to be about unit control. You need to spread units out, be wary of siege positioning, draw back your units in a timely fashion, make sure the right units are in front, be quick on ability usage (SM and Snipe especially).

The overlords are pretty squishy targets at 200hp with 300/200 resources invested, so downing them is worth quite a lot. Meanwhile even if you lose a significant # of marines you have to consider how much the zerg is giving up. Even a moderate amount of success in thinning out the banelings can tip the efficiency scale in your favor.

With the overlords especially don't be shy about pulling units away. Say you 'abandon' a Thor by pulling back your marines. If you snipe even one of those overlords without being rained on, you've paid for the Thor.

Logo
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
October 25 2010 21:34 GMT
#9
I don't even use blings vs Terran currently. Can't say I miss my imba unit tbh.
My. Copy. Is. Here.
ThE.SparkZ
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States381 Posts
October 25 2010 21:49 GMT
#10
Play how TLO did in the first GSL. Maurader Tank Hellion Thor Viking. Banelings are stupid against that and you can't tech to mutas fast enough to hold it off, you have to go roach and it's still extremely powerful against it.
A battle between gods is just so damn beautiful
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10732 Posts
October 25 2010 22:11 GMT
#11
Would all be nice and dandy... If not every Terran i meet would go Hellion/Thor + Marauder or Marine or Viking depending on my army composition.
Chriamon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States886 Posts
October 25 2010 22:38 GMT
#12
On October 26 2010 06:32 Logo wrote:
[...]The overlords are pretty squishy targets at 200hp with 300/200 resources invested, so downing them is worth quite a lot. Meanwhile even if you lose a significant # of marines you have to consider how much the zerg is giving up. Even a moderate amount of success in thinning out the banelings can tip the efficiency scale in your favor.
[...]

The main problem is that thors don't kill ovies fast at all, you have to kill them with marines. If the Z flanks with mutas and zlings the T is hard pressed on which target to focus. If the Z notices you focus ovies, he could just send in empty ovies with his zlings and w banelings on ground and such.
In every game where i've had enough time to get mutas and banelings with drop, I have dominated for the rest of the game. I think Ts still need more time to learn how to deal with this, mutas force marine + thor, and banes rape your marines from the ground and from the sky.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/274906/1/Blaze/
cocoa_sg
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Singapore296 Posts
October 26 2010 03:06 GMT
#13
On October 26 2010 07:38 Chriamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2010 06:32 Logo wrote:
[...]The overlords are pretty squishy targets at 200hp with 300/200 resources invested, so downing them is worth quite a lot. Meanwhile even if you lose a significant # of marines you have to consider how much the zerg is giving up. Even a moderate amount of success in thinning out the banelings can tip the efficiency scale in your favor.
[...]

The main problem is that thors don't kill ovies fast at all, you have to kill them with marines. If the Z flanks with mutas and zlings the T is hard pressed on which target to focus. If the Z notices you focus ovies, he could just send in empty ovies with his zlings and w banelings on ground and such.
In every game where i've had enough time to get mutas and banelings with drop, I have dominated for the rest of the game. I think Ts still need more time to learn how to deal with this, mutas force marine + thor, and banes rape your marines from the ground and from the sky.


Indeed, you took the words out of my mouth. The diversity with which zerg users can now attack, coupled with the dangerous threat of banelings, whether it be drops or land assaults, really forces terrans to micro much more, putting them under more stress than necessary. This may be why terrans are faltering so much against zerg players in GSL Season 2.

Of course, it is still too early to tell for sure. Cool and Idra have yet to meet the better terran players, like for example, MVP and etc. Let's see how Season 2 will play out to the end!
Member of the "Afrotoss be rapin" crew ! Join now by copy/pasting this - || - I do not play BW or SC2, but I am a rabid fanboy! =D
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SC Evo League
12:00
S2 Championship: Ro16 Day 2
IndyStarCraft 115
SteadfastSC100
EnkiAlexander 38
IntoTheiNu 14
Liquipedia
WardiTV Summer Champion…
11:00
Playoffs Day 1
NightMare vs ZounLIVE!
Clem vs MaxPax
WardiTV994
Liquipedia
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #103
Solar vs ShoWTimELIVE!
ByuN vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings339
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 145
IndyStarCraft 115
SteadfastSC 100
ProTech98
BRAT_OK 87
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 46382
Larva 1147
Mini 357
Killer 337
Rush 327
Last 294
Hyun 275
ggaemo 274
Hyuk 236
firebathero 213
[ Show more ]
Pusan 213
Mind 141
PianO 125
Sea.KH 53
Sacsri 47
soO 37
HiyA 17
Free 16
Noble 14
Dota 2
Gorgc11879
qojqva1758
XcaliburYe337
Pyrionflax227
League of Legends
Dendi878
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1542
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King58
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor230
Other Games
singsing2078
B2W.Neo1078
byalli263
RotterdaM164
Fuzer 162
KnowMe77
rGuardiaN33
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 10
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3240
• WagamamaTV469
League of Legends
• Nemesis4138
• Jankos2096
Upcoming Events
Chat StarLeague
2h 17m
Razz vs Julia
StRyKeR vs ZZZero
Semih vs TBD
Replay Cast
10h 17m
Afreeca Starleague
20h 17m
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
21h 17m
RotterdaM Event
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 20h
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 21h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
Cosmonarchy
5 days
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
SC Evo League
5 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Jiahua Invitational
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSLAN 3
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.