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There is nothing that pisses me off quite like the word Progamer and how frequently it is used. Progamer is not a goddamn word, so please stop using it! Seriously, is it really that hard to actually click the damn space bar so that "Pro gamer" becomes legibly different from "Programmer". As a programmer myself, 99% of the time when I read the word "Progamer", I immediately think "Programmer" and then go WTF now this doesn't make sense.
In no other sport in the world are the words pro + sport's name put together in the same damn word. Pro baseball player, pro football player, pro soccer player IS NOT probaseballer, profootballer, prosoccerer.
You can even look at how the word is pronounced:
Pro........*LOOK AT THIS PAUSE*.... Gamer
Pro.......................................*LOOK AT THIS GODDAMN PAUSE!*.........Gamer
It is not pronounced Progamer all in one fricking breath.
So for the love of god, please expend the teeny little bit of energy to click the space bar or add a hyphen between the words Pro and Gamer.
Note: Exception for translations, not knowing Korean or other languages I have no idea if that it how it was actually written or not. Thanks for always translating articles for those of us who are interested in the happenings on the Korean e-Sport scene. Keep up the good work!
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YA AND GOOGLE ISN'T A WORD EITHER IM' SO ANGRY
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On October 13 2010 10:14 mOnion wrote:
YA AND GOOGLE ISN'T A WORD EITHER IM' SO ANGRY
Google is a proper noun. Proper nouns can be anything.
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Nothing that pisses you off that much? Nothing? What about child abuse? Genocide? Clubbing baby seals?
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Been thinking this myself. Its kind of funny that the same people that go apeshit over people not using the word metagame correctly are themselves using the "word" progamer.
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Let's just call you a prog-rammer instead.
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We introduce new words all the time.
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On October 13 2010 10:15 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Nothing that pisses you off that much? Nothing? What about child abuse? Genocide? Clubbing baby seals?
Excuse the exaggeration, of course certain things such as those do piss me off, I was just trying to express my extreme dislike for the word "progamer".
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On October 13 2010 10:18 Aprikosen wrote:
We introduce new words all the time.
New words are fine as long as they don't get confused with other words, programmers are a considerable portion of the gaming world so, as it is the case for me, it is quite easy to get progamer and programmer confused.
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On October 13 2010 10:13 Rakdos wrote:
It is not pronounced Progamer all in one fricking breath.
I actually do pronounce it like that.
"Flash is a progamer" not "Flash is a pro ... gamer"
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On October 13 2010 10:20 Rakdos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 10:18 Aprikosen wrote:
We introduce new words all the time. New words are fine as long as they don't get confused with other words, programmers are a considerable portion of the gaming world so, as it is the case for me, it is quite easy to get progamer and programmer confused.
I could see how you could mix those two words together. This is a pretty big problem.
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Starcraft defined progamer imo
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Rakdos, my friend, you can attempt to force your spelling preferences onto the people around you. But 1) you won't accomplish anything and 2) you come off as a dickhead who mistakes his own personal little list of likes and dislikes for universal law.
Once the avalanche has started, the pebbles don't get to vote.
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On October 13 2010 10:21 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 10:13 Rakdos wrote:
It is not pronounced Progamer all in one fricking breath. I actually do pronounce it like that. "Flash is a progamer" not "Flash is a pro ... gamer"
Then your oral skills must be terrible, you pause after the "pro" in order to put emphasis on it because someone who is "pro" at something is considerably skilled at that something and is better then your average player/person.
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Yeah, eSports isn't a word either. We SC players have our own special words we use do describe our very niche interests.
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On October 13 2010 10:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Rakdos, my friend, you can attempt to force your spelling preferences onto the people around you. But 1) you won't accomplish anything and 2) you come off as a dickhead who mistakes his own personal little list of likes and dislikes for universal law.
Once the avalanche has started, the pebbles don't get to vote.
Spelling mistakes such as typos don't really annoy me that much. But spelling mistakes caused by lack of space bar usage is just dumb. Anyidiotcantypewithoutspacebarbutthatdoesn'tmakeitcorrectorsomethingthatshouldbejustbrushedoff. Especially when it causes misunderstandings and problems for readers who are just trying to read articles about topics that interest them.
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woah Didnt Know flash Was a ProGrammer
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On October 13 2010 10:27 im a roc wrote:
Yeah, eSports isn't a word either. We SC players have our own special words we use do describe our very niche interests.
Pro-gamer and Pro Gamer are words. There isn't an alternative for eSports, which btw is an abreviation of the term Electronic Sports, progamer isn't an abreviation, its just poor English.
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On October 13 2010 10:25 Rakdos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 10:21 Alzadar wrote:On October 13 2010 10:13 Rakdos wrote:
It is not pronounced Progamer all in one fricking breath. I actually do pronounce it like that. "Flash is a progamer" not "Flash is a pro ... gamer" Then your oral skills must be terrible, you pause after the "pro" in order to put emphasis on it because someone who is "pro" at something is considerably skilled at that something and is better then your average player/person.
I say progamer. I don't actually know anyone (not that I know too many SC fans) who says "pro gamer." I like to think my oral skills are not terrible (;D) although I certainly could be wrong about that.
To hijack your blog, "pro" has nothing to do with skill. Stop using it like that. We already have a word to describe a skilled gamer, "skilled." Pros get paid. Effort stopped being a progamer (or pro gamer, whatever) the second he retired, even though he didn't lose any skill.
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On October 13 2010 10:29 Rakdos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 10:25 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Rakdos, my friend, you can attempt to force your spelling preferences onto the people around you. But 1) you won't accomplish anything and 2) you come off as a dickhead who mistakes his own personal little list of likes and dislikes for universal law.
Once the avalanche has started, the pebbles don't get to vote. Spelling mistakes such as typos don't really annoy me that much. But spelling mistakes caused by lack of space bar usage is just dumb. Anyidiotcantypewithoutspacebarbutthatdoesn'tmakeitcorrectorsomethingthatshouldbejustbrushedoff. Especially when it causes misunderstandings and problems for readers who are just trying to read articles about topics that interest them.
It's not a mistake. It's a misunderstanding on your part.
You misunderstand how language works. In the course of this one thread, you've attributed spelling progamer without a space to ignorance, laziness, and terrible "oral skills." But actually it's just a new word. Actually it's just a particular instance of the phenomenon of language change, which is an absolute and omnipresent fact in any language at any time. Not only is it unavoidable, not only is not the product of linguistic or moral deficiencies, not only is it not a mistake, but it's the exact same process that generated the spelling of every single word you're typing in your misguided diatribe against it.
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Koreans say progamer. Many people in this community spend a lot of time listening to Korean people talk about progamers.
Does "esports" bother you too because it is spelled too similarly to "experts"? Those two are only two letters off too.
Edit for clarity.
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Koreans say progamer. Many people in this community spend a lot of time listening to Korean people talk about progamers.
Does "esports" bother you too or is it spelled too similarly to "experts"? Because those two are only two letters off too.
I said that translations were a different matter and that I didn't mind them. When I go to read a translation I go in expecting there to be improper English and possible misspellings, thats just how translations work. I get annoyed when someone who is a primarily English speaker uses the word progamer.
The difference between Progamer and Programmer is just one 'r' and one 'm'. Thats less then 20% of the damn word. The difference between eSports and experts is 'S', 'p', 'o' which is nearly 40% of the word not to mention one has a capital S right in the middle of it. Completely different.
You misunderstand how language works. In the course of this one thread, you've attributed spelling progamer without a space to ignorance, laziness, and terrible "oral skills." But actually it's just a new word. Actually it's just a particular instance of the phenomenon of language change, which is an absolute and omnipresent fact in any language at any time. Not only is it unavoidable, not only is not the product of linguistic or moral deficiencies, not only is it not a mistake, but it's the exact same process that generated the spelling of every single word you're typing in your misguided diatribe against it.
Pro-gamer is already a word, so is Pro gamer (even though its 2 words and not one). Progamer is merely a "fake" word. As in, it was created by people who suck at English.
To hijack your blog, "pro" has nothing to do with skill. Stop using it like that. We already have a word to describe a skilled gamer, "skilled." Pros get paid. Effort stopped being a progamer (or pro gamer, whatever) the second he retired, even though he didn't lose any skill.
My mistake, regardless there is a difference between someone who is "pro" at something and someone who isn't, the pause is used to emphasis that.
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On October 13 2010 10:44 Rakdos wrote: Show nested quote +
You misunderstand how language works. In the course of this one thread, you've attributed spelling progamer without a space to ignorance, laziness, and terrible "oral skills." But actually it's just a new word. Actually it's just a particular instance of the phenomenon of language change, which is an absolute and omnipresent fact in any language at any time. Not only is it unavoidable, not only is not the product of linguistic or moral deficiencies, not only is it not a mistake, but it's the exact same process that generated the spelling of every single word you're typing in your misguided diatribe against it.
Pro-gamer is already a word, so is Pro gamer (even though its 2 words and not one). Progamer is merely a "fake" word. As in, it was created by people who suck at English.
Everything I said about word change also applies to spelling change. Spellings change. Every spelling you employ was, more or less, arbitrarily defined (and altered) over time by usage. But either you don't realize the significance of this fact, or you don't yet realize that it's a fact in the first place, or you don't care.
At any rate, I wish you all the luck in the world in your crusade to save English from people who suck at it.
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I am so angry I registered to TL just to post this!
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You are right. You've convinced me to type pro gamer instead of "progamer".
But I doubt TL's writing staff will follow your proposal.
In the mean time, maybe you'll get better at differentiating "progamer" from programmer.
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On October 13 2010 11:26 domane wrote:
You are right. You've convinced me to type "pro gamer" instead of progamer.
But I doubt TL's writing staff will follow your proposal.
In the mean time, maybe you'll get better at differentiating progamer from programmer.
Seeing as I'm currently a Comp Sci student at college I doubt I will since 75% of my life revolves around programming
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why are there so many of these dumb word blogs these days
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United States4053 Posts
On October 13 2010 11:39 tube wrote:
why are there so many of these dumb word blogs these days
at least the "troll" and "baller" ones, which I remember off the top of my head, were because the word was actually used wrong
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at least the "troll" and "baller" ones, which I remember off the top of my head, were because the word was actually used wrong
I'm not saying the word was used wrong, just that progamer isn't a word and people should use pro-gamer or pro gamer
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I don't see anything wrong with the word "progamer." I don't have a hard time differentiating the word and I have a MS in Computer Engineering, so using the "I am a Comp Sci major" argument doesn't really work.
The word formation just reflects the changes in language over time, as HULKAMANIA has already pointed out. I can give you an example in another language as well. In Japanese, a popular word today is ネカマ. If you ask the older generation about this word, they may not be tell you the meaning since it's more mainstream towards the younger crowd. The word comes from putting together ネット (internet / net) and オカマ (fag / boy who acts like girl). The meaning is very obvious if you understand where the word comes from and how it is formed.
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On October 13 2010 12:39 pepsidrinker wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with the word "progamer." I don't have a hard time differentiating the word and I have a MS in Computer Engineering, so using the "I am a Comp Sci major" argument doesn't really work.
The word formation just reflects the changes in language over time, as HULKAMANIA has already pointed out. I can give you an example in another language as well. In Japanese, a popular word today is ネカマ. If you ask the older generation about this word, they may not be tell you the meaning since it's more mainstream towards the younger crowd. The word comes from putting together ネット (internet / net) and オカマ (fag / boy who acts like girl). The meaning is very obvious if you understand where the word comes from and how it is formed.
Your missing the point, its not that "progamer" is a change in language. "progamer" is not a word, it stems from people either being too lazy to click the space bar or to add a hyphen. A change in language would be the creation of a new term, such as "l33t" or "wewt". Words likes those probably didn't exist 20 years ago. "progamer" isn't new, its just a dumbasses version of the actual word "Pro-gamer/Pro gamer". Unlike some people, I don't support the dumbass version of words.
As for the Comp Sci major argument, I fully realize that some people don't have trouble with it. There are always exceptions in life, yet for myself and all of my friends who play Starcraft 2 and a variety of other video games and are also Comp Sci majors every single one of them said when presented with the written word "progamer" they immediately thought it was "programmer".
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On October 13 2010 12:55 Rakdos wrote:Your missing the point, its not that "progamer" is a change in language. "progamer" is not a word, it stems from people either being too lazy to click the space bar or to add a hyphen. [...] Unlike some people, I don't support the dumbass version of words.
If you're going to put high standards on other people, I think you should at least learn the difference between "your" and "you're." This is not stemming from laziness, but a misunderstanding of how the English language works... I feel that getting something as basic as "you're/your" wrong is worst than "pro-gamer/progamer."
I often use Google as a way to correct my spelling since their search feature has built up a good database of common words and phrases, and for the most part, that are used correctly. Links to "progamer" and "light bulb." Despite "progamer" not being correct, it is still accepted, while "lightbulb" isn't accepted...
progamer
pro gamer
light bulb
lightbulb
tl;dr It really doesn't matter!
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If you're going to put high standards on other people, I think you should at least learn the difference between "your" and "you're." This is not stemming from laziness, but a misunderstanding of how the English language works...
I'm absolutely terrible with those particular words....and I know it.
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I often use Google as a way to correct my spelling since their search feature has built up a good database of common words and phrases, and for the most part, that are used correctly. Links to "progamer" and "light bulb." Despite "progamer" not being correct, it is still accepted, while "lightbulb" isn't accepted...
I've already pointed out that it is widely used but that doesn't necessarily make it correct. "Wewt" is in Google too but that doesn't make "wewt" a correct English word.
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On October 13 2010 13:19 Rakdos wrote:Show nested quote +
I often use Google as a way to correct my spelling since their search feature has built up a good database of common words and phrases, and for the most part, that are used correctly. Links to "progamer" and "light bulb." Despite "progamer" not being correct, it is still accepted, while "lightbulb" isn't accepted...
I've already pointed out that it is widely used but that doesn't necessarily make it correct. "Wewt" is in Google too but that doesn't make "wewt" a correct English word.
wewt
No one ever said "wewt" was a correct English word. Even Google offers a suggestion to what has been entered. You must also consider the fact that English may not be people's first language. It could be their second, or even third language, so correcting ever minor details down to something as simple as "progamer/pro-gamer" isn't helpful or necessary.
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No one ever said "wewt" was a correct English word. Even Google offers a suggestion to what has been entered. You must also consider the fact that English may not be people's first language. It could be their second, or even third language, so correcting ever minor details down to something as simple as "progamer/pro-gamer" isn't helpful or necessary.
I stated that translations were different, I guess I should include non-native English speakers as well. The only time this annoys me is when someone who is a primary English speaker.
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I find the word pro gamer paradoxical. It comes from people who want to make esports a respectable profession but the word itself is a bash of slang. It would be like calling a professional athlete referring to himself as a proath.
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On October 13 2010 14:23 T0fuuu wrote:
I find the word pro gamer paradoxical. It comes from people who want to make esports a respectable profession but the word itself is a bash of slang. It would be like calling a professional athlete referring to himself as a proath.
Or a pro athlete, which is common enough...
I don't see a problem with this community using the word progamer like it does. It has meaning to us, and so we use it that way.
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On October 13 2010 14:35 numLoCK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 14:23 T0fuuu wrote:
I find the word pro gamer paradoxical. It comes from people who want to make esports a respectable profession but the word itself is a bash of slang. It would be like calling a professional athlete referring to himself as a proath. Or a pro athlete, which is common enough... I don't see a problem with this community using the word progamer like it does. It has meaning to us, and so we use it that way.
pro athlete right? you just said pro athlete...not proathlete....pro [look at this space!] athlete.
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United States10328 Posts
I say "progamer" as one word. I do get angry when people misspell it as "progammer" or "programmer" though ;;;;;
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ITT OP posts opinion as if fact. Probably came for SC2.
User was warned for this post
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Osaka27156 Posts
I don't care if you don't like it. It is part of our dialect.
On October 13 2010 13:15 Rakdos wrote:Show nested quote +
If you're going to put high standards on other people, I think you should at least learn the difference between "your" and "you're." This is not stemming from laziness, but a misunderstanding of how the English language works...
I'm absolutely terrible with those particular words....and I know it.
Then you are in no position to make this thread.
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Rakdos, let me make up my previous poor post by saying this; it is pointless.
Progamer is distinctly Korean-Starcraft and is currently in wide use. People will not stop using the word. You may as well go attack every new slang term to enter common use. After all, it probably isn't correctly!
Especially in a formative sport\community you can't expect to dictate by some sort of authority which word is going to be used. Understandably it might be frustrating when pro-gamer might be correct, but it won't change.
Even if you were absolutely objectively correct you likely wouldn't put a dent in common usage. Use pro-gamer if you want, the rest of us will use progamer (as a pseudo-merge of two words and thinking of the Korean commentators saying it if you're anything like me) like we've been doing.
Lots of things were once not words, friend Rakdos.
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List of words I found in TL that would also not make sense to you
-teamliquid
-starcraft
-broodwar
-starcraft 2
-proleague
-starleague
-youtube
-liquipedia
and the list goes on
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it's in our vernacular d00d, accept it. you're not going to change it even though it hurts your brain each time you read it written that way.
also, i think it's funny that you ask other people to expend "energy" to write a little hyphen or space but you don't want to expend the same little amount of energy to carefully read a single word.
p.s.
PROGAMER... ESPORTS!
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I don't see it as purely a conjugation, more like the e-sports (esports?) version of "athlete".
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On October 13 2010 10:18 mOnion wrote:verb ? come on thread
I remember, the days of altavista and askjeeves as the two most popular search engines before google existed, and google was just a term for 1x10^100.
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On October 13 2010 17:42 ZlaSHeR wrote:I remember, the days of altavista and askjeeves as the two most popular search engines before google existed, and google was just a term for 1x10^100.
are you google years old?
I believe the order was
fire > wheel > google > computers
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(regarding progamer or pro gamer or whatever) ...It is not pronounced Progamer all in one fricking breath...
I can say "pro gamer" without having to breathe between "pro" and "gamer"
:D
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
PEUHH-LOOO-GEHH-YEE-MOHH!!!!!!
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I love how this guy demands we stop using jargon since it's not standard English, and then refers to an anecdote that explicitly reveals poor reading comprehension on his part. Seriously, "programmer" sports 2 entire letters more than "progamer". There's absolutely no way to mix the two words up unless you're reading entirely too quickly and/or are dyslexic.
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Rakdos, you are tragically ignorant of the history and evolution of language. There are plenty of words that did not exist at some point in history (i.e. all of them). An example: programmer.
It is one word in Korean, based on two loanwords from English, and then people outside of Korea started using it as one word because it was established as a standard. I don't know why you are endeavoring so assiduously to dispute something that is accepted by almost everyone in the community.
Your inane arguments also suggests a proper pronunciation, which is even at odds with the way the vast majority of people say it. There are so many issues with syntax in your op, and the layout is horrific to read, so I suggest you take a step back before making purposeless accusations and demanding something be changed that no one else cares about.
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EPT
