precise defenses against FE busts...

palanq

United States761 Posts

October 13 2010 01:10 GMT

so just a little update on how my sc2 is going. My pvp is pretty solid since I started doing 3 warpgate pushes into colo (so EZ man...) and my PvT and PvZ are not too awful if I can stabalize off 2 base, since I pretty much FE all the time. lategame protoss is just too baller for other races to handle (5+ bases invincible because of templar warpin? yes please)

but my biggest problem (aside from players with sheer better mechanics than me) is losing that FE to timing attacks in PvT and PvZ. here are two recent examples of me playing badly and losing my FE:

baneling bust

comments: I think my timings are roughly correct but maybe a 4th cannon is necessary if I spot that many lings, and I think you have to forcefield in the right place only AFTER the banelings blow everything up? also I guess I could simcity without pylons.

banshee/stim attack:

okay so I really shouldn't have lost all those probes to the hellions, and forge/cannon was a bad choice. since its 2base vs. 1base I think you have to defend from possible cloak hellion with just stalker/obs, and get stargate ASAP after you scout the 2 tech ports.

discussion appreciated

edit: I am ~1300 diamond FYI

fabiano

Brazil4644 Posts

October 13 2010 01:52 GMT

Watched the PvZ, and though I'm probably a much worse player than you would like to comment about that one if you don't mind

PvZ is my worst match up (BW trauma

), so I'm interested in better players input here.

I think your pylons should not be that much exposed, better wall off with gateways and cybecore maybe? Seems like the 2 cannons + your well timed FF would have hold off the bust if the pylons were not destroyed, but maybe a 3rd cannon in the frontline would fend off the attack anyway.

But really, I think you lost because your pylons were way too exposed.

ThE.SparkZ

United States381 Posts

October 13 2010 03:04 GMT

Ok so i'm a zerg player about 1600 diamond, but i'm also pretty good as toss so i've got 2 perspectives here. First off, he was 1 basing, if you see that punish it. What do i mean? double pylon at his ramp and contain. HE WONT BE ABLE TO BLING BUST YOU. he may be able to kill those pylons at his ramp with bl's but you should have enough cannons and stuff to defend it plus a running second by the time he breaks out.

Anyways if you don't wanna go that route lemme suggest some things to change your build and make it a little more stable. When fast expanding NEVER put those pylons to make a wall, that's just screaming to get raped. Also, its probably better to put a gateway instead of a forge at your choke first and this is why. If he 2 bases you can 2gate at your choke and make 4-5 zlots before expanding, and really punish him for expoing. This is good, always try to punish zerg's build by not letting them drone while you safely macro. If he's 1 basing, throw down forge immediately after gateway and use these to make your wall. You can do it on LT except at the top position and leave just enough room for 1 zealot to block the rest. Put cannons behind the wall and pylons behind that. If pylons are behind the main wall he can't unpower your buildings. Hope this helps a little i know its a little vague so sorry D:

Edit: only talking about the ZvP I've never dabbled in fast expanding PvT but I only do FE's against Zerg because the macro toss is the scariest thing I've ever encountered as a zerg,

palanq

United States761 Posts

October 13 2010 03:21 GMT

On October 13 2010 12:04 ThE.SparkZ wrote:
Ok so i'm a zerg player about 1600 diamond, but i'm also pretty good as toss so i've got 2 perspectives here. First off, he was 1 basing, if you see that punish it. What do i mean? double pylon at his ramp and contain. HE WONT BE ABLE TO BLING BUST YOU. he may be able to kill those pylons at his ramp with bl's but you should have enough cannons and stuff to defend it plus a running second by the time he breaks out.

is this really necessary? seems like a waste of minerals if it is defended properly

Anyways if you don't wanna go that route lemme suggest some things to change your build and make it a little more stable. When fast expanding NEVER put those pylons to make a wall, that's just screaming to get raped. Also, its probably better to put a gateway instead of a forge at your choke first and this is why. If he 2 bases you can 2gate at your choke and make 4-5 zlots before expanding, and really punish him for expoing. This is good, always try to punish zerg's build by not letting them drone while you safely macro.

forge first is stable and sort of stylistic right? this is LT crosspositions anyway (when you pylon scout you can tell if he's close or not so I make my decision about gateway or forge first based on that). but sure you get forge/gateway and then core, the only question is if you are safe from like a 12pool or something if you dont put pylons as part of your wall. I'd be interested if you know how the timings on that works out

If he's 1 basing, throw down forge immediately after gateway and use these to make your wall. You can do it on LT except at the top position and leave just enough room for 1 zealot to block the rest. Put cannons behind the wall and pylons behind that. If pylons are behind the main wall he can't unpower your buildings. Hope this helps a little i know its a little vague so sorry D:

Edit: only talking about the ZvP I've never dabbled in fast expanding PvT but I only do FE's against Zerg because the macro toss is the scariest thing I've ever encountered as a zerg,

yep <3 macrotoss

ThE.SparkZ

United States381 Posts

October 13 2010 03:27 GMT

Ok lemme tell you as a zerg player having had this done to me and then having do it playing toss.. pylons at the ramp are the most fucking annoying thing in the world.. It's SOOO hard to get back into a game if the toss knows what to do after the contain. Also the gateway first is really good simply because you want that 1 zealot out as fast as possible to seal your wall from ling runby, plus the 2 gate pressure is so good so that the zerg can't stay even with your macro. The less macro you can make a zerg do the better, that's how you win. But of course, you can forge first, some people do and it works i'm just trying to give my opinion after watching what my favorite toss players do and seeing what's been especially strong against me in my own replays. Hope that helps ^^

Please or register to reply.

precise defenses against FE busts...

Completed

Ongoing

Upcoming