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During the early stages of the beta, I played terran. During the later stages, it became evident that the cool thing to do was to bitch about Terran being the OP, no skill, 1a race. 9/10 games I won my opponent would leave me with a hateful message along the lines of, "typical terran" or "wow nice 1a."
One day I thought to myself, maybe they're right, maybe I am a no skill 1aing newbie. So I switched to zerg, which many considered to be the underdog race. 100 games later, it turns out my W:L ratio is nearly identical as it was when I was terran.
I'm not arguing that there aren't any problems with TvZ. If you look at the highest level of play, it becomes apparent that mech is a little too strong vs zerg. But I think the great majority of whiny zergs are just jumping on the bandwagon.
I was watching Artosis vs. Drewbie earlier today, and when some guy said that terran is "ridiculously broken", I told him I'm a zerg player and he should stop whining, that he was making his fellow zergs look weak. He replied with, "try 6pooling vs good terrans, it doesn't work outside of bronze." Wait, what? Since when did whining become a measure of skill?
ZERGS: Unless you're a top player that is repeatedly getting screwed out of winning tourneys, stop whining about terran. Chances are you're losing games because you're being outplayed. The imbalance isn't as significant as you think, especially at lower levels. Even if I'm wrong and you're right, you should stick with the race you love playing, and future patches and improved maps will help you out. If all you care about is winning, then switch to terran and "1a" your way to victory. Zerg doesn't want you anyway. Leave zerg for real men.
 
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Your win/loss ratio is the long-run is always going to be the same because of matchmaking.
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This is so true, low level players should whining about imba because chances are, both players made mistakes and chances are, the loser made more.
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do you however feel, that winning as zerg vs terran is "more work" than the other way round? i would imagine, a lot of people are just angry because they have to work a lot to stay alive and win games with the one race, while the other race just has a pretty easy go. Having to work hard for something surely leads to more rage when it fails.
Of course i agree that a lot of whining is just "they whine, so i go along and whine too", but still there may be some truth to that "you just 1a whereas i have to work hard in the same game". What's your feeling about that after having played both sides?
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The main issue I have is that Zerg seems to have lost almost everything that made them Zerg from BW. Well that and the fact that it feels like 1 mistake on my part and the game is over but they can make as many mistakes as they like and manage to still keep in the game.
If only there was a way to break a turtle and end the game when you had the advantage
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It's true most losses as zerg will be a result of just being outplayed with the exception of at top level, but zergs basic mechanics are more demanding and take getting used to. On the other side of that though, I think zerg is the easiest race to play if you ONLY have solid mechanics.
^ Coming from a random player.
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On September 05 2010 09:01 MisterD wrote:
do you however feel, that winning as zerg vs terran is "more work" than the other way round? i would imagine, a lot of people are just angry because they have to work a lot to stay alive and win games with the one race, while the other race just has a pretty easy go. Having to work hard for something surely leads to more rage when it fails.
Of course i agree that a lot of whining is just "they whine, so i go along and whine too", but still there may be some truth to that "you just 1a whereas i have to work hard in the same game". What's your feeling about that after having played both sides?
Let's say people are right, and that zerg really is more "work" to play than terran. If one day this is somehow proven, am I going to get angry at a terran because he won a game from me while putting in less work? No, because I'm playing the more challenging race, and I CHOSE to do so. If I wanted to win games while putting in less effort, I'd switch to terran. I'm not going to get angry at the guy for choosing the easier path, since that option is available to me too. And I lost because I didn't work hard enough, even if I did work harder than my opponent.
I wish zergs would think like this.
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right, that choosing to play the more challenging side is true.. hum.
well after all, a lot of the new sc2 players are former warcraft players. And who didn't find his own race to be the weakest in warcraft must have been an alien or something. It was kind of obligatory in warcraft to whine about ones own race beeing the weakest :D
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On September 05 2010 09:14 Beardfish wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 09:01 MisterD wrote:
do you however feel, that winning as zerg vs terran is "more work" than the other way round? i would imagine, a lot of people are just angry because they have to work a lot to stay alive and win games with the one race, while the other race just has a pretty easy go. Having to work hard for something surely leads to more rage when it fails.
Of course i agree that a lot of whining is just "they whine, so i go along and whine too", but still there may be some truth to that "you just 1a whereas i have to work hard in the same game". What's your feeling about that after having played both sides? Let's say people are right, and that zerg really is more "work" to play than terran. If one day this is somehow proven, am I going to get angry at a terran because he won a game from me while putting in less work? No, because I'm playing the more challenging race, and I CHOSE to do so. If I wanted to win games while putting in less effort, I'd switch to terran. I'm not going to get angry at the guy for choosing the easier path, since that option is available to me too. And I lost because I didn't work hard enough, even if I did work harder than my opponent. I wish zergs would think like this.
Nah, I tend to think like this:
I should have a 50/50 chance of winning against another race, give or take a 5% difference, if my skill is equivalent to my opponent's. Anything significantly higher than 5% devaition is imbalance.
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ur 10% winrate as both T and Z does not concern me or any part of the balance issue.
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and yes, i do constantly get screwed by stalife out of winning tourneys.
motherfucker!^_^
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"Leave zerg for real men."
*nods in agreement*
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On September 05 2010 09:42 Sfydjklm wrote:
ur 10% winrate as both T and Z does not concern me or any part of the balance issue.
Top zergs should discuss balance all they want. My intention is to get lower level zergs to shut up and play better.
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On September 05 2010 09:49 Beardfish wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 09:42 Sfydjklm wrote:
ur 10% winrate as both T and Z does not concern me or any part of the balance issue. Top zergs should discuss balance all they want. My intention is to get lower level zergs to shut up and play better.
well you can go on and say hey you sfydjklm fucker youre not as good as idra and diamga, stfu.
Which is not the correct point of view.
People are comparing themselves with people of equal skill level not better.
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i remember watching this and reading those comments. i'm all for Artosis here. when you can build 6-8 marauders, drop them in a base and take it out in 5 seconds with stim, its hard not to get mad, cause any bronze leaguer can pull off multiple cheap base drops, and the zerg can't deal with it unless they have mass forces at each expo, which is ridiculous to expect. plus it's frustrating to macro a huge force of mutas and lose it instantly to like 20 turrets and a thor because you didn't have perfect micro while the terran just had to leave a thor there. this is also an issue in lower league games, because once armies get to 200/200 the terran army just squashes the zerg and because we don't have perfect macro and can't make a max army instantly, we get rolled.
without sqeaking, our zerg wheel's not gonna get any oil from the blizzard mechanic, so squeak away, zergs! we already got patch 1.1 to help us out so let's go from there.
and i thought Artosis' comments to be pretty funny, because it's obvious that terran is op in many situations.
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Seriously, I'm glad there are Zerg's out there like you. Everyone's crying is getting very old.
Stick to the race you like to play and enjoy, if you think Terran or Protoss is OP, go play them instead and call it a day.
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On September 05 2010 11:02 NET wrote:
Seriously, I'm glad there are Zerg's out there like you. Everyone's crying is getting very old.
Stick to the race you like to play and enjoy, if you think Terran or Protoss is OP, go play them instead and call it a day.
you cant just go ahead and switch. There are a lot nuisances that come with every race. People are fucking pissed that they are forced to switch after playing thousands of games as Z just because blizzard likes their terran OP.
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On September 05 2010 09:54 eLiE wrote:
i remember watching this and reading those comments. i'm all for Artosis here. when you can build 6-8 marauders, drop them in a base and take it out in 5 seconds with stim, its hard not to get mad, cause any bronze leaguer can pull off multiple cheap base drops, and the zerg can't deal with it unless they have mass forces at each expo, which is ridiculous to expect. plus it's frustrating to macro a huge force of mutas and lose it instantly to like 20 turrets and a thor because you didn't have perfect micro while the terran just had to leave a thor there. this is also an issue in lower league games, because once armies get to 200/200 the terran army just squashes the zerg and because we don't have perfect macro and can't make a max army instantly, we get rolled.
without sqeaking, our zerg wheel's not gonna get any oil from the blizzard mechanic, so squeak away, zergs! we already got patch 1.1 to help us out so let's go from there.
and i thought Artosis' comments to be pretty funny, because it's obvious that terran is op in many situations.
I think this is exactly what the OP was trying to avoid...
But thank you Beardfish. QQing about Terran doesn't solve the problem that you're getting your ass handed to you. Finding a solution to what you lose to does. And the solutions ARE there. Use that nerdrage energy to find them and beat back those Terrans you used to lose to.
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saying that a race is "imba" when you're a lower level player seems to be the trend a lot of the times. I play protoss in BW, and a lot of times people say toss is imba (im around D/D+ level iccup). My usual response to them is to get better and stop whining, but it seems that they dont want to do either of those things. =(
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It's good to know that game balance only matters at the very highest levels of play. You've shown me the light.
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On September 05 2010 11:25 faction123 wrote:
It's good to know that game balance only matters at the very highest levels of play. You've shown me the light.
The highest level of play is where the best analysis of gameplay can be made. At lower levels, mistakes made are not as significant, and therefor contaminate the results.
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EPT
