|
so today i officially decided to vote down Blistering Sand as my ladder map references.
Reason? As a Protoss player, i feel like my build order on this map is TOO limited. In match up such as PvT or PvZ, there are things that T or Z could do that force P to use a certain strat to counter... for example, you cannot 2 gates PvZ on this map simply bc of roaches and back rock. Also the distant between main base and nature is too far to protect a drop without breaking the backbase rock early on but clearly, breaking the rock only make you more vulnerable.. In PvP, the 2 watch towers are too reveal so that with 2 probes, you can see the whole enemy army movement. When you compare it to Kulas, its not that bad but once you start having 2 or 3 bases, its a huge problem. also the ramp to base distant is too far in order to defend some kinda 2 fronts attack.
I was actually surprised myself how my win rate on this map is dropping even lower than Scrap station. I dont know whether if i am doing wrong or it was because of the map balance vs the current play style but for the mean time, i will vote it down :<... So farewell, Blistering Sand!
 
|
eh blistering sands is a hardcore protoss map, probably the single best map for protoss in the entire map pool.
|
On September 05 2010 04:43 NB wrote:
so today i officially decided to vote down Blistering Sand as my ladder map references.
Reason? As a Protoss player, i feel like my build order on this map is TOO limited. In match up such as PvT or PvZ, there are things that T or Z could do that force P to use a certain strat to counter... for example, you cannot 2 gates PvZ on this map simply bc of roaches and back rock. Also the distant between main base and nature is too far to protect a drop without breaking the backbase rock early on but clearly, breaking the rock only make you more vulnerable.. In PvP, the 2 watch towers are too reveal so that with 2 probes, you can see the whole enemy army movement. When you compare it to Kulas, its not that bad but once you start having 2 or 3 bases, its a huge problem. also the ramp to base distant is too far in order to defend some kinda 2 fronts attack.
I was actually surprised myself how my win rate on this map is dropping even lower than Scrap station. I dont know whether if i am doing wrong or it was because of the map balance vs the current play style but for the mean time, i will vote it down :<... So farewell, Blistering Sand!
Blistering Sands is a incredibly good map against Zerg as Protoss.
Go 5 warpgate all-in > proceed to win most of your games.
How? Zerg right now struggle on pretty much every map to properly defend a 4-gate. They have to put down Spine Crawlers to even have a chance most of the time. with 5 gate ''all in'' you get a shit ton of units and Zerg has to put down a shit ton of spine crawlers to survive, what do you do then? You take down the rocks and laugh your way into his base. If he tries to move some of his Spine crawlers, you just attack the weaker spot.
Good examples of this was Dimaga vs Huk, Dimaga barely managed to hold it off with some clutch play, but naturally lost later on in the game. (IIRC)
|
lol yeah if there is a map that favours Protoss in the current pool, it's Blistering Sands. And contradictory to what you say, 2 gating is a super strong strategy on this map. You just need 1 cannon to block your front and 1-2 cannons at the rocks if he makes a lot of roaches (which really cuts into his drone count)
|
On September 05 2010 04:50 NonFactor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 04:43 NB wrote:
so today i officially decided to vote down Blistering Sand as my ladder map references.
Reason? As a Protoss player, i feel like my build order on this map is TOO limited. In match up such as PvT or PvZ, there are things that T or Z could do that force P to use a certain strat to counter... for example, you cannot 2 gates PvZ on this map simply bc of roaches and back rock. Also the distant between main base and nature is too far to protect a drop without breaking the backbase rock early on but clearly, breaking the rock only make you more vulnerable.. In PvP, the 2 watch towers are too reveal so that with 2 probes, you can see the whole enemy army movement. When you compare it to Kulas, its not that bad but once you start having 2 or 3 bases, its a huge problem. also the ramp to base distant is too far in order to defend some kinda 2 fronts attack.
I was actually surprised myself how my win rate on this map is dropping even lower than Scrap station. I dont know whether if i am doing wrong or it was because of the map balance vs the current play style but for the mean time, i will vote it down :<... So farewell, Blistering Sand! Blistering Sands is a incredibly good map against Zerg as Protoss. Go 5 warpgate all-in > proceed to win most of your games. How? Zerg right now struggle on pretty much every map to properly defend a 4-gate. They have to put down Spine Crawlers to even have a chance most of the time. with 5 gate ''all in'' you get a shit ton of units and Zerg has to put down a shit ton of spine crawlers to survive, what do you do then? You take down the rocks and laugh your way into his base. If he tries to move some of his Spine crawlers, you just attack the weaker spot. Good examples of this was Dimaga vs Huk, Dimaga barely managed to hold it off with some clutch play, but naturally lost later on in the game. (IIRC)
This is exactly why I vote down Blistering Sands as a Zerg. There is just so much struggle in defending a 4-gate already. If I am forced to split my static defense there is no way I will be able to defend it. Even if I do, I will be progressively more behind later in the game. Those backdoor rocks are the devil in ZvP.
|
On September 05 2010 04:48 Elegy wrote:
eh blistering sands is a hardcore protoss map, probably the single best map for protoss in the entire map pool.
Yup. This rocks on this map forces zerg and terran into undesirable situations against protoss. I'm surprised you actually play games against non-protoss on this map 
Terran can never FE against you and always has to worry about you either busting down the backdoor or doing some kind of voidray or phoenix shenans because there's such a large area they have to cover :/
|
Well, if he blocks 5/4 gate then you're screwed. It's an all in build. If you try to go play standard with a 2 gate expo or something, and he gets a lot of roaches, then you're also screwed because of backdoor. You can stop 4/5 gate without sunkens if you get enough roaches and speedlings.
|
i know 4 gates is strong on this map but really, other than 4 gates there is almost no way you can play safe. Thats why i dont want to play the game where i only have 1 or 2 opening option. Consider how far the entrance to base, there is no freaking way you can scout without robo to see what tech he is going to 4 gates is simply a HUGE risk to me.
otherwise its mostly 1 base colossi which is stupidly slow and passive.
|
Dude, Blistering Sand is like Toss heaven.
Pros 2gate there all the time. Just build outside your nat, and you get a free expand off it.
1 Gate forge, expand is another awesome PVZ build on BS.
And as others have pointed out, 4 gate straight up owns here.
As a Zerg player, I downvoted BS because its so easy for Toss and Terran to punish Zerg for expanding.
|
On September 05 2010 04:56 neobowman wrote:
Well, if he blocks 5/4 gate then you're screwed. It's an all in build. If you try to go play standard with a 2 gate expo or something, and he gets a lot of roaches, then you're also screwed because of backdoor. You can stop 4/5 gate without sunkens if you get enough roaches and speedlings.
macro game is an all in build. If you play macro game and he outmacros you then you're screwed.
|
Katowice25012 Posts
How do you feel about desert oasis?
|
On September 05 2010 04:43 NB wrote:
so today i officially decided to vote down Blistering Sand as my ladder map references.
Reason? As a Protoss player, i feel like my build order on this map is TOO limited. In match up such as PvT or PvZ, there are things that T or Z could do that force P to use a certain strat to counter... for example, you cannot 2 gates PvZ on this map simply bc of roaches and back rock. Also the distant between main base and nature is too far to protect a drop without breaking the backbase rock early on but clearly, breaking the rock only make you more vulnerable.. In PvP, the 2 watch towers are too reveal so that with 2 probes, you can see the whole enemy army movement. When you compare it to Kulas, its not that bad but once you start having 2 or 3 bases, its a huge problem. also the ramp to base distant is too far in order to defend some kinda 2 fronts attack.
I was actually surprised myself how my win rate on this map is dropping even lower than Scrap station. I dont know whether if i am doing wrong or it was because of the map balance vs the current play style but for the mean time, i will vote it down :<... So farewell, Blistering Sand!
Hey buddy, here's a tip.
You spawned blistering sands? Oh, cool. Make 4 warpgates off 1 gas and 16 probes and break down the back door.
Wins against all 3 races pretty easily.
For the record I play all maps I don't like the whole downvoting thing but its basically a freewin protoss map. You can go 2 gate just do it at the natural and make cannons behind the backrocks.
It's very, very hard to hold off stalker/zealot 4 warpgate as any race unless you're P and doing stalker/zealot 4 warpgate.
|
heh don't think u can get any better as P than on BS
|
On September 05 2010 06:15 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 04:43 NB wrote:
so today i officially decided to vote down Blistering Sand as my ladder map references.
Reason? As a Protoss player, i feel like my build order on this map is TOO limited. In match up such as PvT or PvZ, there are things that T or Z could do that force P to use a certain strat to counter... for example, you cannot 2 gates PvZ on this map simply bc of roaches and back rock. Also the distant between main base and nature is too far to protect a drop without breaking the backbase rock early on but clearly, breaking the rock only make you more vulnerable.. In PvP, the 2 watch towers are too reveal so that with 2 probes, you can see the whole enemy army movement. When you compare it to Kulas, its not that bad but once you start having 2 or 3 bases, its a huge problem. also the ramp to base distant is too far in order to defend some kinda 2 fronts attack.
I was actually surprised myself how my win rate on this map is dropping even lower than Scrap station. I dont know whether if i am doing wrong or it was because of the map balance vs the current play style but for the mean time, i will vote it down :<... So farewell, Blistering Sand! Hey buddy, here's a tip. You spawned blistering sands? Oh, cool. Make 4 warpgates off 1 gas and 16 probes and break down the back door. Wins against all 3 races pretty easily. For the record I play all maps I don't like the whole downvoting thing but its basically a freewin protoss map. You can go 2 gate just do it at the natural and make cannons behind the backrocks. It's very, very hard to hold off stalker/zealot 4 warpgate as any race unless you're P and doing stalker/zealot 4 warpgate.
how you cannon back rock exactly?
I believe not only me but LOTS of people have failed to cannon the back rock....
also i havent play desert oasis since the end of phase 1 when muta was almost auto win on that map, have never try it since then :D
|
I hate blistering sands... vs Terran its not too bad, vs Toss it is a nightmare. I played 6 games against Toss using my friend's Silver level account on that map... lost half of them ><;;
|
yer the 4gate push rapes Terran too on BS.
|
Lots of players think BS is the best protoss map cuz they don't know how to stop a warpgate allin.
It's not a bad map for protoss, but it isn't *that* great.
|
On September 15 2010 02:57 travis wrote:
Lots of players think BS is the best protoss map cuz they don't know how to stop a warpgate allin.
It's not a bad map for protoss, but it isn't *that* great.
With people like Dimaga losing to warpgate all-in's I would argue that you can't guarantee that you can always stop a warpgate all in on zerg on any backdoor map.
|
On September 15 2010 03:17 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 02:57 travis wrote:
Lots of players think BS is the best protoss map cuz they don't know how to stop a warpgate allin.
It's not a bad map for protoss, but it isn't *that* great. With people like Dimaga losing to warpgate all-in's I would argue that you can't guarantee that you can always stop a warpgate all in on zerg on any backdoor map.
I've watched alot of BS pvz reps with dimaga in them and he's won more of them than he's lost, that I've seen. Not that that really means anything, but neither does what you said.
But anyways, sure he's lost to it warpgate allin. That doesn't really prove anything, maybe he just wasn't expecting it? Or maybe he played bad? Or maybe his opponent outmicro'd him really badly? Or one of a million other reasons. I mean it's not like you just throw dice here.
|
As zerg, i find toss to be extremely strong on Blistering Sands. Most toss will open 2gate either outside their natural expo or just inside their base and proceed to apply pressure. The base distance isn't very far or too close but close enough that 2gate can shutdown a zerg's expo and will force zerg to get roaches early or make a spine crawler to hold off the initial zealots. the toss will either proceed to go 2 gate into robo and get an immortal and counter your roaches in which the zerg will have a pretty good chance of winning. OR, the toss could go 4gate/5gate warpgate push and pretty much destroy the zerg if they dont have a few spine crawlers with hydras and roaches/lings. i find that if i expand and try defending the expansion with some spinecrawlers... the toss will proceed to break down the rocks and use this new opening to take down my main unless i move my spine crawlers near my main. but once they see that i have uprooted my spinecrawlers, they will use this opening and attack my expo, thus gaining a large lead. OR, the toss could go 2gate into fast expand and use their early pressure to gain a large economical advantage. I find that one of the only ways i can win is to go one base hydra and HOPE that they are pumping probes or expanding or else i'm pretty much done.
|
watch idra's 1 st game today and understand y BS is bad.... even if the guy didnt lose his immortal when he move out, all Idra needs to do was break the back door rock and attacks nat by lings and main by roaches => GG
i dont want to criticize the map too much since i know it depends on which skill level are you playing on but that game was 1 of my example. i will do my best to make a good blog entry about my thought on current PvZ since the match up is really dynamic atm. Hope you guys will put some thought on that.
^^
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
