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This build has been really annoying me, cos:
1. It's hard to scout.
2. Go down a wrong tech-path and it's instant gg.
What is the MTBR build?
![[image loading]](http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2083/mtbr.png)
Marines, tanks, banshees and raven.
TLO used a variation of this build against WhiteRa in the ESL tourney with the following result:
+ Show Spoiler +
You can find replay here: Click.
So what is the problem with this build?
To counter cloak, we need an observer. That's 50m/100g, but we can't rely on just one observer, as there will be a raven and most likely the marines will shoot it down.
Some variations (such as TLOs) also uses Marauders, in case the toss player would be so smart to bring anti air, as in stalkers (armored and receives additional damage from marauders).
So what's the plan?
Scouting is everything. There's multiple ways this can play out - you can be lucky enough to scout his factory go down right after the barracks, and you can therefore safely go 2 gate into robo, get the observer out and look if he's sticking with the MTBR build or perhaps tank/marine-push.
If he denies you scout, and you've only seen 1 barracks go down, you can stick to the 2 gate into robotics facility, knowing this is risky. A 3-4 barracks push will slaughter you - and no, immortals will NOT save you. Keep the initial scouting probe alive as long as possible!
A big indication he's going 1-1-1 is no techlab on barrack or bunker being built at his entrance.
He's going MTBR - how do we tech?
I've been successful with the following build.
1 gate
core
1 gate - Keep building zealots and sentries
robotics facility
Chrono boost the observer out - make sure you know where his army is! If he's going tank/marines you can't let yourself get contained.
Twillight council, chrono boost speedlots
Stargate, chrono 2-3 pheonixes out.
How does it all play out?
Replay is [url blocked].
  
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White-ra actually did very well in the second game he played against TLO where he did this build, but he made several crucial mistakes that cost him the game. I don't see why you only linked one of the games.
Also, the "MTBR build" sounds retarded fyi. We don't go around saying I'm doing the MTVS(marine+tank+vulture+SCV/Gundam rush) build for a reason. In fact, it doesn't even really need a name at the moment. a small description of the build would suffice.
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What is the opening for this build? The MTBR build that is, seems slightly effective might give it a shot
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Are the phoenixes for graviton beam?
I would go mass zealots with a touch of stalkers, scouting his banshees numbers and adjusting my army composition.
I play zerg btw ^^;
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On August 19 2010 14:27 TeabagInsurance wrote:
White-ra actually did very well in the second game he played against TLO where he did this build, but he made several crucial mistakes that cost him the game. I don't see why you only linked one of the games.
Also, the "MTBR build" sounds retarded fyi. We don't go around saying I'm doing the MTVS(marine+tank+vulture+SCV/Gundam rush) build for a reason. In fact, it doesn't even really need a name at the moment. a small description of the build would suffice.
I've banned this guy from the blog, he's been trolling in the other blog posts aswell. Who cares about the name? It's short for what it is.
On August 19 2010 14:31 gaizka wrote:
Are the phoenixes for graviton beam?
I would go mass zealots with a touch of stalkers, scouting his banshees numbers and adjusting my army composition.
I play zerg btw ^^;
Depends, if he's already sieged up right in front of my base, i go graviton beam on the tanks while moving out of the base - if he's not going for the siege upgrade, I would just use the pheonixes to shoot down the banshees (+ damage to the banshees).
On August 19 2010 14:29 WarChimp wrote:
What is the opening for this build? The MTBR build that is, seems slightly effective might give it a shot
Download the TLO vs. WhiteRa replay, they are typically going 1-1-1, then techlab on factory, switch around with starport for cloak.
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Templar tech wrecks this build hard. Esp if they do it without cloak like TLO did, feedback will 1hko banshees all day, and storm takes care of marines readily.
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On August 19 2010 15:01 Butigroove wrote:
Templar tech wrecks this build hard. Esp if they do it without cloak like TLO did, feedback will 1hko banshees all day, and storm takes care of marines readily.
What if he gets siege? You need speedlots to take those out... You also need 2 observers, due to cloak. With that build, you would need alot more gas + time.
2 observers alone needs 200 gas, which you need for your 150gas per HT.
+ You need the Amulet for addtional energy, if you plan to both feedback (2x 50 energy) + 2 storms (2x 75).
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On August 19 2010 15:07 Qzy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2010 15:01 Butigroove wrote:
Templar tech wrecks this build hard. Esp if they do it without cloak like TLO did, feedback will 1hko banshees all day, and storm takes care of marines readily. What if he gets siege? You need speedlots to take those out... You also need 2 observers, due to cloak. With that build, you would need alot more gas + time. 2 observers alone needs 200 gas, which you need for your 150gas per HT. + You need the Amulet for addtional energy, if you plan to both feedback (2x 50 energy) + 2 storms (2x 75).
Speedlots are not on the tech path to templar? They also have good synergy because tempalrs hardly cost minerals.
You suggested getting phoenixes to counter banshees, which are gas intensive as well. You hardly need more than one observer unless you make micro mistakes if you go feedback, because it kills the banshees (and if not, their cloaking ability) instantly, unlike phoenixes which need the observer to stay alive. Feedback also wrecks raven, at the very least you can force him to drop a pt defense drone prematurely and back off.
Try it out, instead of bashing it with theorycraft, is all I'm saying.
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This build is a small variation of the Ghost Mech build and as previously said - HTs seem to be very good against it especially if there are no ghosts in the mix. Gas steal in the beginning helps a bit aswell, since it's a very gas heavy build.
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On August 19 2010 16:30 Butigroove wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2010 15:07 Qzy wrote:On August 19 2010 15:01 Butigroove wrote:
Templar tech wrecks this build hard. Esp if they do it without cloak like TLO did, feedback will 1hko banshees all day, and storm takes care of marines readily. What if he gets siege? You need speedlots to take those out... You also need 2 observers, due to cloak. With that build, you would need alot more gas + time. 2 observers alone needs 200 gas, which you need for your 150gas per HT. + You need the Amulet for addtional energy, if you plan to both feedback (2x 50 energy) + 2 storms (2x 75). Speedlots are not on the tech path to templar? They also have good synergy because tempalrs hardly cost minerals. You suggested getting phoenixes to counter banshees, which are gas intensive as well. You hardly need more than one observer unless you make micro mistakes if you go feedback, because it kills the banshees (and if not, their cloaking ability) instantly, unlike phoenixes which need the observer to stay alive. Feedback also wrecks raven, at the very least you can force him to drop a pt defense drone prematurely and back off. Try it out, instead of bashing it with theorycraft, is all I'm saying.
It wasn't a bash. I've gone HT tech a lot vs. marine, marauder, ghost balls, but failed every time vs. this tech.
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Oh, I normally open phoenixes against terran anyway. Saw a guy doing this, I think, got lucky and sniped his banshee and raven with my first three phoenixes before he had cloak. I guess in that situation, I'm more worried about the cloaked banshees. I usually get a fairly fast forge to deal with early pushes from terran while I harass with phoenixes, so I could either add on cannons, or add a robo bay and keep the phoenix harass up.
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In the second game TLO played with White-Ra, White-Ra had a huge advantage. He had an expansion up way before TLO, and held off his attack. Instead of sticking with Phoenix and Immortal, he should have just teched to twilight council and made high templars. High templar beat that entire army, as the banshee's & raven can be feedbacked if they try to harass, and if they fight your main army, you can storm them quite easily.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On August 19 2010 15:07 Qzy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2010 15:01 Butigroove wrote:
Templar tech wrecks this build hard. Esp if they do it without cloak like TLO did, feedback will 1hko banshees all day, and storm takes care of marines readily. What if he gets siege? You need speedlots to take those out... You also need 2 observers, due to cloak. With that build, you would need alot more gas + time. 2 observers alone needs 200 gas, which you need for your 150gas per HT. + You need the Amulet for addtional energy, if you plan to both feedback (2x 50 energy) + 2 storms (2x 75).
you don't NEED the amulet if you prepare properly. all it does is boost their starting energy by 25.
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Clearly there's some butthurt blog lurkers. =) I'll stop posting tutorials due to low ratings.
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EPT
