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Papua New Guinea152 Posts
Well, here are just my personal thoughts on the issue of why SC2 hasn't fared so well in Korea. Beware that a lot of the stuff I say has already been talked about to death and many of you might already see what I typed as common sense.
First of all, BW is still popular. It still has a massive following in Korea (Koreans are still dominating on iccup) and, as long as people continue to watch BW, progamers will continue to play BW and not SC2. Also, you need to take into account that the transition from BW to SC2, while it may be trivial to a casual gamer, won't be as smooth for the BW progamer. These guys have been playing BW their whole lives and, while the mechanics are easier and strategy yet undiscovered, there are completely different units and completely different mentality between the games. In fact, it might very well be the case that many of the BW progamers won't play SC2, given that most are in their late teens and early twenties, and also given that it will take some time for SC2 to catch on and be played with some regularity in PC bangs, etc. Also there's the issue that while SC2 may be more "noob friendly" with regard to gameplay, the game might not be as fun to watch (I won't get into that here). Perhaps Blizzard will address this in their expansions, which brings me to...
The Expansions. Starcraft didn't even get popular at the very beginning, at least not until BW came out. New units and abilities were added to the game, and the game became even richer and viewer-friendly. Even then, however, it took some time. BW was released in 1998 and, while it didn't get that popular in North America or Europe before around 1999/2000, it didn't get popular in Korea until at least 2001, around the time when grrr... and Boxer started revolutionizing the game. The game continued to grow exponentially. People saw others playing and talking about it, and they started playing and interest in watching pros play the game took off. The game studios weren't even that big until around 2006. Big names like Jaedong, Flash, and Bisu didn't get that big until 2006/2007. This is also why I think that the future pros of SC2 haven't even started playing the game yet, and most of them might be in their early teens at the time of this writing.
So, I think, like countless others have said before me, we just need to give it some time. When BW came out, nobody was really all that excited for it as people were with the release of SC2. Because BW wasn't as attractive initially, it took longer for people to catch on, while now SC2 was long anticipated (at least in the foreign scene), partly due to the success of BW. The result is more foreigners and less Asians playing SC2, at least for the time being 
It's not that SC2 is a better or worse game than BW, it's that BW has had 12 years to mature and grow, and SC2 only a few weeks (however, it has grown several times faster than BW did in its initial few weeks). In any case, SC2 is off to a great start, and it will only get better.
EDIT: Well, I'm no expert, but given that many in the gaming community are voicing their opinions and that these ideas are generally unanimous, wouldn't it be in the best interest of Blizzard to address these issues? Of course, they want more people to buy the game.
  
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
the game might not be as fun to watch (I won't get into that here). Perhaps Blizzard will address this in their expansions
I can't stand watching SC2, I'd pick BW over it anyday I can watch random D+ play on a stream but will force myself to watch top 20 SC2 players. It's very hard to see the game imo everything is dark. Are you saying blizzard knows it's not fun to watch and they probably will address it, source? Or did i misinterpret this
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What else can we do but give it time?
Actually we can observe and complain how the decisions made by activision blizzard have been blatantly misguided in their judgement of the korean audience and ended up hindering SC2's popularity
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Well, while I do believe that SC2 has certainly gone off to a greater, faster, and better start than SC/BW did, it's going to plateau out soon enough. The reason there was this exponential growth in the fanbase of SC2 is because Blizzard actually marketed this game very strategically and nicely. This is not to mention, a bunch of newbie (sorry if I insult anyone) and casual gamers who just strolled in and purchased SC2 on the market made this initial growth to appear much higher than BW was in its beginning.
However, now that all these casual gamers (basically the nerds who try out all the new games) are done with purchasing it, I predict that this exponential growth shall become quite stagnate. Now, it's time to sit back and wait -- wait for Korea to acclimate itself to this new game. Honestly, though, I don't see Korea becoming lured into SC2 and replacing it with BW anytime soon (2 or 3 years?). Certainly, not until an expansion and many patches/bugs are fixed by Blizzard.
Then again, this is all speculation, prediction, and assumption. I do agree with the OP in that we should "give it some time" -- the right thing to do in this era of open-mindedness (hah!) But, I believe I'm just engulfed with bias and I want BW to live as long as possible. I've played 3 games total (beta and SC2) and I can say, personally, I do not like the game at all and I hope Korea never likes SC2, either.
Long live BW! 
I'm willing to "give it some time," but, just to throw it out there -- if 'some time' is defined as 6+ years, I don't mind (and could probably care less) as long as BW lives on.
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On August 12 2010 01:50 Ares[EffOrt] wrote:Show nested quote +the game might not be as fun to watch (I won't get into that here). Perhaps Blizzard will address this in their expansions I can't stand watching SC2, I'd pick BW over it anyday I can watch random D+ play on a stream but will force myself to watch top 20 SC2 players. It's very hard to see the game imo everything is dark. Are you saying blizzard knows it's not fun to watch and they probably will address it, source? Or did i misinterpret this
It's funny because I feel otherwise
If there was some kind of english commentary I'd probably watch it. I really enjoyed watching gomtv Tasteless casts, but nowadays? I probably need to wait long time for some action to happen because every single BW game is fast expand and stay inside your base and move out in 10 minutes.
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Personally I can easily watch both but I find Sc2 a little bit less fun to watch, unless ofcourse there are commentators, otherwise I fall asleep.
I want chat channels or xrealm play.. US is getting stale.. Also I don't like their interface on the menu looks like some xbox designer made it...oh wait..
Starcraft 2 seems like there is more action earlier game but it gets.. meh around midgame
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As of now, I can't watch SC2 games without good commentary to keep me entertained. But I can watch terrible BW games and still find enjoyment with no commentary.
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Canada2480 Posts
On August 12 2010 02:13 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 01:50 Ares[EffOrt] wrote:the game might not be as fun to watch (I won't get into that here). Perhaps Blizzard will address this in their expansions I can't stand watching SC2, I'd pick BW over it anyday I can watch random D+ play on a stream but will force myself to watch top 20 SC2 players. It's very hard to see the game imo everything is dark. Are you saying blizzard knows it's not fun to watch and they probably will address it, source? Or did i misinterpret this It's funny because I feel otherwise If there was some kind of english commentary I'd probably watch it. I really enjoyed watching gomtv Tasteless casts, but nowadays? I probably need to wait long time for some action to happen because every single BW game is fast expand and stay inside your base and move out in 10 minutes.
err?
TvZ: starts roughly after 4 minutes good stuff at 6:00 for 12 pool lair and 7:30 for 3 hatch mutas
ZvZ: starts even faster
ZvP: starts roughly after 4 minutes too
TvT: ok this one often is boring I will admit, can be very good too though
TvP:well it takes a bit longer then the zergs match-ups but defenitely not 10 minutes
PvP: roughly 5-6 minutes? I don't knowi don't play protoss
all in all you must very very impatient if you can't stand a few minutes of korean girls hiding from the cameras
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On August 12 2010 02:54 swanized wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 02:13 AyJay wrote:On August 12 2010 01:50 Ares[EffOrt] wrote:the game might not be as fun to watch (I won't get into that here). Perhaps Blizzard will address this in their expansions I can't stand watching SC2, I'd pick BW over it anyday I can watch random D+ play on a stream but will force myself to watch top 20 SC2 players. It's very hard to see the game imo everything is dark. Are you saying blizzard knows it's not fun to watch and they probably will address it, source? Or did i misinterpret this It's funny because I feel otherwise If there was some kind of english commentary I'd probably watch it. I really enjoyed watching gomtv Tasteless casts, but nowadays? I probably need to wait long time for some action to happen because every single BW game is fast expand and stay inside your base and move out in 10 minutes. err? TvZ: starts roughly after 4 minutes good stuff at 6:00 for 12 pool lair and 7:30 for 3 hatch mutas ZvZ: starts even faster ZvP: starts roughly after 4 minutes too TvT: ok this one often is boring I will admit, can be very good too though TvP:well it takes a bit longer then the zergs match-ups but defenitely not 10 minutes PvP: roughly 5-6 minutes? I don't knowi don't play protoss all in all you must very very impatient if you can't stand a few minutes of korean girls hiding from the cameras
PvP starts as soon as the scouting probes die.
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The thing about the expansions is, BW came out 8 months after SC1..whereas the final expansion for sc2 won't be out for another 36 months. This may hinder the development of the game in ESPORTS, especially if they release new multiplayer units.
BW is still waaaay more fun to watch anyway, and a little bit more fun to play..although there is nothing wrong with playing both games :3.
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Croatia9544 Posts
On August 12 2010 02:54 swanized wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 02:13 AyJay wrote:On August 12 2010 01:50 Ares[EffOrt] wrote:the game might not be as fun to watch (I won't get into that here). Perhaps Blizzard will address this in their expansions I can't stand watching SC2, I'd pick BW over it anyday I can watch random D+ play on a stream but will force myself to watch top 20 SC2 players. It's very hard to see the game imo everything is dark. Are you saying blizzard knows it's not fun to watch and they probably will address it, source? Or did i misinterpret this It's funny because I feel otherwise If there was some kind of english commentary I'd probably watch it. I really enjoyed watching gomtv Tasteless casts, but nowadays? I probably need to wait long time for some action to happen because every single BW game is fast expand and stay inside your base and move out in 10 minutes. err? TvZ: starts roughly after 4 minutes good stuff at 6:00 for 12 pool lair and 7:30 for 3 hatch mutas ZvZ: starts even faster ZvP: starts roughly after 4 minutes too TvT: ok this one often is boring I will admit, can be very good too though TvP:well it takes a bit longer then the zergs match-ups but defenitely not 10 minutes PvP: roughly 5-6 minutes? I don't knowi don't play protoss all in all you must very very impatient if you can't stand a few minutes of korean girls hiding from the cameras
I don't think you should've wasted your time to prove a point to AyJay. He obviously has some kind of personal vendetta against BW or something and in every thread concerning some BW vs SC2 debate he does nothing but try to pick out fights with BW fans by posting this kind of ignorant posts.
To the OP:
The Expansions. Starcraft didn't even get popular at the very beginning, at least not until BW came out.
Now I have nothing against SC2 or it's players, but you seriously have to stop using this excuse in your posts when defending SC2. This fact doesn't hold ANY water now, because environment is too different now. By this logic, do we need to wait for SC2 expansion to even consider it becoming a parts of ESPORTS?
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United States1785 Posts
A lot of people have said, "well BW didn't get big until this date, so let's give it more time." of course this is true, but at the time BW was one of the few RTS's at the time so basically it was almost a brand new thing. now we have had BW for 12 years, and SC2 came out, and a big portion of people act as if SC2 has no background of RTS to back it up. well it does, it has BW since it's the sequel to this game and has been out for 12 years just like i said, now i know time will tell, but it can only tell so much since it has to i guess "overcome" the fact that it's predecessor has been one of the top RTS's in the world. what i'm trying to say is, if blizzard doesn't act fast with SC2 i believe it could die out sooner than most people suspect because it has to on par with BW and if people want SC2 to become the next big RTS just like BW is then they have a lot of ground to cover and i mean A LOT
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I don't know if you guys remember but SC2 took like 3-4 years of actual development to come out. I don't think time will improve it much, the new blizzard game engineers are simply not as good as they were before.
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United States1785 Posts
On August 12 2010 03:29 gmsts wrote:
I don't know if you guys remember but SC2 took like 3-4 years of actual development to come out. I don't think time will improve it much, the new blizzard game engineers are simply not as good as they were before.
i agree with this. even if they're not as good as before, people (including myself) expect them to be better because the first starcraft has been out for 12 years. they SHOULD have taken that time in mind to better themselves at RTS game making. and about the new blizzard engineers, correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe a lot of the old blizzard staff quit several years ago because they didn't like where the company was headed.
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On August 12 2010 03:13 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 02:54 swanized wrote:On August 12 2010 02:13 AyJay wrote:On August 12 2010 01:50 Ares[EffOrt] wrote:the game might not be as fun to watch (I won't get into that here). Perhaps Blizzard will address this in their expansions I can't stand watching SC2, I'd pick BW over it anyday I can watch random D+ play on a stream but will force myself to watch top 20 SC2 players. It's very hard to see the game imo everything is dark. Are you saying blizzard knows it's not fun to watch and they probably will address it, source? Or did i misinterpret this It's funny because I feel otherwise If there was some kind of english commentary I'd probably watch it. I really enjoyed watching gomtv Tasteless casts, but nowadays? I probably need to wait long time for some action to happen because every single BW game is fast expand and stay inside your base and move out in 10 minutes. err? TvZ: starts roughly after 4 minutes good stuff at 6:00 for 12 pool lair and 7:30 for 3 hatch mutas ZvZ: starts even faster ZvP: starts roughly after 4 minutes too TvT: ok this one often is boring I will admit, can be very good too though TvP:well it takes a bit longer then the zergs match-ups but defenitely not 10 minutes PvP: roughly 5-6 minutes? I don't knowi don't play protoss all in all you must very very impatient if you can't stand a few minutes of korean girls hiding from the cameras I don't think you should've wasted your time to prove a point to AyJay. He obviously has some kind of personal vendetta against BW or something and in every thread concerning some BW vs SC2 debate he does nothing but try to pick out fights with BW fans by posting this kind of ignorant posts. To the OP: Show nested quote +
The Expansions. Starcraft didn't even get popular at the very beginning, at least not until BW came out.
Now I have nothing against SC2 or it's players, but you seriously have to stop using this excuse in your posts when defending SC2. This fact doesn't hold ANY water now, because environment is too different now. By this logic, do we need to wait for SC2 expansion to even consider it becoming a parts of ESPORTS?
Well said man.
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Now I have nothing against SC2 or it's players, but you seriously have to stop using this excuse in your posts when defending SC2. This fact doesn't hold ANY water now, because environment is too different now. By this logic, do we need to wait for SC2 expansion to even consider it becoming a parts of ESPORTS?
Actually given the recent trend of games barely being complete upon release and relying on DLC packs to patch up all the missing content they skimped out on to make the release date, needing an expansion to be considered a full game is actually pretty accurate haha 
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Korea isnt going to just drop BW after all these years and pick up SC2, its going to be gradually worked in as BW begins to phase out
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EPT
