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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:17 Tabbris wrote: It was bad advice, zealot /sentry is pretty staple vs marauders. Let the silly advice spread makes laddering easier :/ it happened again we're at what, 4 times on that one page? and this isn't even the actual sc2 forums | ||
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AmstAff
Germany949 Posts
for example: zealots < marauders (with micro on T side) zealots > marauders (without micro on T side) sentrys < marauders stalkers = marauders stalkers + zealots > marauders stalkers + zealots + sentrys >> marauders now you can make the same thing for the terran side. Right now there is no 100% right way to play, thats why you see so many different opening and strategies. the players only know the right counter unit composition at the moment. wait 3months and you will get some 100% right advices how to play. as an other example watch TLO. i really dislike his style of play, because i think some weeks/months after release you wont see him ever go far in any tournament. his style is based on cheese and micro but bad multitask. thats why you see him often tech to BC, its not because the strategie is super, its because he cant spend his money in time and is too slow to use more units with less HP, but it works for him atm. at the same time i like to see people like idra, nony and white-ra, they have a more solid ground of skill and i think that will help to stay longer on top. if you want some short time success with less work, play like TLO if you want long time success with much and hard work, play like IdrA now you could tell me that i am wrong, but I think its all about the angle how you look at something ( point of view? or how you call it. i hope you understand what i want/try to say =( ) | ||
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:23 mOnion wrote: it happened again we're at what, 4 times on that one page? and this isn't even the actual sc2 forums The Argument was That you shouldest make zealots in the early game which is untrue. What point are u trying to make? Are you just arguing marauders are good vs zealots early game? That wasn't the complete advice Here let me bold it for you "marauders are amazing vs zealots early game there really is no point in making zealots against a T early game" | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:28 Tabbris wrote: The Argument was That you shouldest make zealots in the early game which is untrue. What point are u trying to make? Are you just arguing marauders are good vs zealots early game? That wasn't the complete advice Here let me bold it for you ya I understand that, but the way people are presenting their sides of the argument aren't conducive to reaching an appropriate solution nvm i'm fighting a losing battle here anyway | ||
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:34 mOnion wrote: ya I understand that, but the way people are presenting their sides of the argument aren't conducive to reaching an appropriate solution nvm i'm fighting a losing battle here anyway I'm sorry im trying really hard to figure out what your saying  | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:16 mOnion wrote: no. if the statement was "you should only make pure marauders early game because they are great against zealots" then obviously it would be a false conclusion and it would be vital to consider other units. but this IS a discussion of mara vs lot early game. you're reading it wrong. The person states that there is no point in making zealots against T early game. Okay, I suppose you could argue that he is literally meaning there is no point in making pure zealot early game, which is true because of marauders. However, I really don't think that is what he means, though if he is super ignornant he might not understand about sentries and would think that zealots can't have use at all early game. If he is giving that as advice though, to not make zealots early game v T, thats bad advice either way. If he knows about forcefield then I don't have any idea why he would say that, and if he doesn't its still bad advice because zealots can have a use early game PvT. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:19 Plexa wrote: I think we're going to be a bit more liberal with the sc2strat forum ban upon release Woohoo! I already feel like a mod patrolling for idiots and correcting them. I feel for ya guys. | ||
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YoureFired
United States822 Posts
On topic, zealots are very bad early game vs marauders and are only decent with zeal/sentry. Even then, the DPS of marauders with stim will just rip through them. The guys advice wasn't too bad. | ||
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DemiSe
883 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:23 AmstAff wrote: there are no 100% right advices, only 100% false advices. marauders with concussive shells are strong against nearly every gate unit, with micro. for example: zealots < marauders (with micro on T side) zealots > marauders (without micro on T side) sentrys < marauders stalkers = marauders stalkers + zealots > marauders stalkers + zealots + sentrys >> marauders now you can make the same thing for the terran side. Right now there is no 100% right way to play, thats why you see so many different opening and strategies. the players only know the right counter unit composition at the moment. wait 3months and you will get some 100% right advices how to play. as an other example watch TLO. i really dislike his style of play, because i think some weeks/months after release you wont see him ever go far in any tournament. his style is based on cheese and micro but bad multitask. thats why you see him often tech to BC, its not because the strategie is super, its because he cant spend his money in time and is too slow to use more units with less HP, but it works for him atm. at the same time i like to see people like idra, nony and white-ra, they have a more solid ground of skill and i think that will help to stay longer on top. if you want some short time success with less work, play like TLO if you want long time success with much and hard work, play like IdrA now you could tell me that i am wrong, but I think its all about the angle how you look at something ( point of view? or how you call it. i hope you understand what i want/try to say =( ) I completely disagree with your entire post, which is kinda funny. Stalkers lose to marauders 1v1 and cost a lot more. NOT including stim(!) or emp. So stalkers < marauders. Now having zealots infront of stalkers lets him micro vs your zealots and avoid your stalkers so it doesn't help a lot so cost wise zealot/stalker<marauders. Zealot/sentry or zealot/sentry/stalker can compete against marauders, but why make stalkers when you want more zealots/sentries anyway? (250/100 = 2 lot 1 sentry/2 stalker) If you have enough forcefields you shouldn't need any more range units than sentries. TLO has proved time and time again he has one of the best multitasks in the game. He NEVER cheeses at all, I've seen him reaper rush once, no proxys, early pools, baneling busts, roach busts. Nothing. He does a LOT of harass (which takes multitask) and then macros hard with defensive play. | ||
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Trowabarton756
United States870 Posts
On July 25 2010 03:00 YoureFired wrote: I guess this entire thread is just proving the title of the blog :X On topic, zealots are very bad early game vs marauders and are only decent with zeal/sentry. Even then, the DPS of marauders with stim will just rip through them. The guys advice wasn't too bad. ... lol wtf? The only way a marauder will win vs a zealot early game is if you can kite it. No kite = marauder gets fucked with stim, with shells. Marauders do less damage even WITH stim against zealots then marines do. Please learn the game before you comment and yes his advice was fucking terrible. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On July 25 2010 01:55 Trowabarton756 wrote: but to say something as stupid as that just makes me want to punch a hole in the wall. You should have done that, rather than making a whiny blog post. | ||
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YoureFired
United States822 Posts
On July 25 2010 03:26 Trowabarton756 wrote: ... lol wtf? The only way a marauder will win vs a zealot early game is if you can kite it. No kite = marauder gets fucked with stim, with shells. Marauders do less damage even WITH stim against zealots then marines do. Please learn the game before you comment and yes his advice was fucking terrible. Who doesn't kite with marauders? and even if force fields are used, the marauders slow down the zealots and stop any sort of surround. I forgot to say that marines are also in the mix, behind the marauders, if the terran is competent. Any time I tried to use mass gateway units versus marauder/marine, I was killed due to the fact that marauders and marines do sooo much damage, even if they're forcefielded. Don't flame so much, no need to be a complete and utter prick. | ||
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alexpnd
Canada1857 Posts
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lu_cid
United States428 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:19 Plexa wrote: I think we're going to be a bit more liberal with the sc2strat forum ban upon release God I hope so... unleash the banlings! | ||
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AmstAff
Germany949 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On July 25 2010 03:25 Slayer91 wrote: On July 25 2010 02:23 AmstAff wrote: there are no 100% right advices, only 100% false advices. marauders with concussive shells are strong against nearly every gate unit, with micro. for example: zealots < marauders (with micro on T side) zealots > marauders (without micro on T side) sentrys < marauders stalkers = marauders stalkers + zealots > marauders stalkers + zealots + sentrys >> marauders now you can make the same thing for the terran side. Right now there is no 100% right way to play, thats why you see so many different opening and strategies. the players only know the right counter unit composition at the moment. wait 3months and you will get some 100% right advices how to play. as an other example watch TLO. i really dislike his style of play, because i think some weeks/months after release you wont see him ever go far in any tournament. his style is based on cheese and micro but bad multitask. thats why you see him often tech to BC, its not because the strategie is super, its because he cant spend his money in time and is too slow to use more units with less HP, but it works for him atm. at the same time i like to see people like idra, nony and white-ra, they have a more solid ground of skill and i think that will help to stay longer on top. if you want some short time success with less work, play like TLO if you want long time success with much and hard work, play like IdrA now you could tell me that i am wrong, but I think its all about the angle how you look at something ( point of view? or how you call it. i hope you understand what i want/try to say =( ) I completely disagree with your entire post, which is kinda funny. Stalkers lose to marauders 1v1 and cost a lot more. NOT including stim(!) or emp. So stalkers < marauders. Now having zealots infront of stalkers lets him micro vs your zealots and avoid your stalkers so it doesn't help a lot so cost wise zealot/stalker<marauders. Zealot/sentry or zealot/sentry/stalker can compete against marauders, but why make stalkers when you want more zealots/sentries anyway? (250/100 = 2 lot 1 sentry/2 stalker) If you have enough forcefields you shouldn't need any more range units than sentries. TLO has proved time and time again he has one of the best multitasks in the game. He NEVER cheeses at all, I've seen him reaper rush once, no proxys, early pools, baneling busts, roach busts. Nothing. He does a LOT of harass (which takes multitask) and then macros hard with defensive play. dunno how you want to stop 2 rax marauder with sentry/zeal and i dont understand your "zealots block stalker" thing. since the THREAD-starter was writing about the early game, i thought it makes sense to talk about the early game. so if he is going to pressure you a little bit late and you have enough time, its best to get all 3 gate units to split his marauders on the ramp running in with zeals as meatshield and killing with stalkers/sentrys and maybe microing the zeals back. when the mauders on top of the ramp die the terran will lose sight and you stopped the push. if the terran is just sending his first marauder directly in your base its better to get a zeal first to buy time. as you mentioned marauders are a little bit more costeffective than stalkers and they nearly kill each other so get a zeal as meatshield and kill the marauder with the stalker. note that the zealot is just and only meatshield, while the stalker is the damage dealer. the stalker is fater than both, zeal and marauder so i really dont understand the "block thing". maybe you can enlighten me or tell me how you deal with 2 rax marauder rushes (maybe 1 of them proxy rax). some people even send 2-3 scv with the first 2 marauders. | ||
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Chronopolis
Canada1484 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:10 mOnion wrote: exactly you would never have pure zealots early game for the exact reason THAT marauders are good against them im just pointing out this fallacy that I see TIME and TIME again in the sc2 forum "banshees are good against zealots" "no they're not cuz stalker support rapes banshees" "...but I just said zealots" over and over Your example is "marauders are amazing vs zealots early game This is only true with pure zealots, and no where in this statment does the speaker exclude the possibility of unit mixes there really is no point in making zealots against a T early game" This is obviously untrue, I don't think I need an example to disvalidate this. With stalker+zealots, the unit combination peforms FAR better against marauder than pure zealot OR pure stalker alone. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
If you're not check out creepcolony http://www.creepcolony.com/. | ||
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:19 Plexa wrote: I think we're going to be a bit more liberal with the sc2strat forum ban upon release Please do. Strike fear once again :D | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
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