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sc1 progamer hotkeys?

Blogs > dennisvreyes
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dennisvreyes
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
175 Posts
July 04 2010 11:26 GMT
#1
Hi,
does anyone know how progamers hotkey their units/structures? i play zerg so if someone knows how, say, jaedong, effort, etc. use hotkey wud be awesome.
i try to be efficient so i do it:
1 : main hatch / (if it reaches this stage) defiler group
2 : (early game) spawning egg, soonest to be out / expo hatch, the (mid/late game) lurkers my standard comple group, or ling/hydra
3 : (early) scouting drone, then main attack group (ling/hydra/muta)
4 : (early) scouting OL then secondary attack group
5 : attack group or queen
6 : attack group or queen
7 : OL with attack group
890 : hatches
F2 : main production hatcheries
F3 : entrance or main battle ground
F4 : other production hathces or enemy base, depending

i notice most prefer 123 as attack group, but in my experience its more intuitive to 1sd 1sh 1sz, 2sz 2sh than 5sd, and have 345 as main attack group. i also think 1 and 2 are optimum for special/spell units (defiler/lurker) since mid/late game its easy to micro them along with 345.
im not a big fan of hotkeying too much on production units later on because F2 F3 F4 is perfect, and i just ctrl-click larvae.

watching jeadong's game particularly, i half suspect he even supermircos units such that a group of 6 lings for exmple, lets say hotkey 1, is composed of hotkeys for individual units, say 234 for 3 lings w/in that group. or the same when game gets mid stages and 3-4 clumps of attack units.

im an plat player, 200ish apm. im just really curious if im doing it as efficiently as possible. good money is that how jaedong or the (Z) pros do it wud be the best way to do it.

thanks

Liquid`Ret
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Netherlands4535 Posts
July 04 2010 11:38 GMT
#2
4 through 0 hatches
1 through 3 units

F2 main F3 expo F4 3rd base
Team Liquid
Rio
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Vietnam598 Posts
July 04 2010 11:45 GMT
#3
thanks ret
What ever ---------------------------------------------------™
unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2621 Posts
July 04 2010 11:50 GMT
#4
thats pretty simple there ret
dennisvreyes
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
175 Posts
July 04 2010 11:52 GMT
#5
@ret
yours or jaedongs? thanks
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
July 04 2010 12:30 GMT
#6
wow, rare showing of ret. thanks.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
July 04 2010 12:32 GMT
#7
On July 04 2010 20:52 dennisvreyes wrote:
@ret
yours or jaedongs? thanks

both
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
dennisvreyes
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
175 Posts
July 04 2010 12:35 GMT
#8
someone with a comprehensive actual in game use of hotkeys, thanks
Invictus
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Singapore2697 Posts
July 04 2010 13:20 GMT
#9
Does ret still play scbw or sc2?
Lee Jaedong Fighting!
DivinO
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States4796 Posts
July 04 2010 13:34 GMT
#10
dennisvreyes, that question probably wasn't even necessary.
LiquipediaBrain in my filth.
dennisvreyes
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
175 Posts
July 04 2010 13:57 GMT
#11
DivinO, no.
i wanted to know how the PROS do it, not some opinion.
its YOUR post that was not required.
i ignore posts if i cant add to them, so should you
chill
DoX.)
Profile Joined December 2008
Singapore6164 Posts
July 04 2010 14:12 GMT
#12
Ret has been playing zerg competitively since the early years of BW and last year was invited to join the eSTRO proteam in Korea so I would think he knows how the pros play zerg. imo.
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
July 04 2010 14:12 GMT
#13
i heard jaedong only uses 1-7 hotkeys, his short fingers cant reach 8-0
BadBinky
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Finland649 Posts
July 04 2010 14:13 GMT
#14
4-0 hatcheries, 1-3 units (OL drone early) is pretty standard. I don't know what you mean by secondary attack groups and main production hatcheries as I've never seen any. I use F1-F3 for rally and for late game when I have too many hatcheries to hotkey.
It's more important to be tough than to have any fun.
KaRnaGe[cF]
Profile Joined September 2007
United States355 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 14:29:19
July 04 2010 14:19 GMT
#15
Yeah i've tried using what Ret is suggesting but as zerg how do you handle armies with just 3 control groups later in the game?

I'm just guessing that i shouldn't be grouping lings at all and just grouping main units?

thanks for help
"We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school." - Athenian General Thucydides Quantum Gaming
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
July 04 2010 14:36 GMT
#16
Go to replays, download a replay of your favorite progammer, open up bwchart.
Liquid`Ret
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Netherlands4535 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 14:44:52
July 04 2010 14:40 GMT
#17
well, i personally use 5 through 0 for hatches and 1 through 4 for units but you still have the same problem then too. (not enough hotkeys for your units)

What I always did was have all my grouped units ready to attack in a certain position, and then manage leftover shit as adequately as possible with my mouse (this is only really a problem in zvp, and by then its not that bad to send shit in like that cuz it'll mostly be cracklings and if you send everything perfectly at the same time, you'll lose it all at once to storms)

ZvT this is not really a problem since 90% of the games you're swarming and burrowing lurkers till you can make ultralisks in which case you don't really need a lot of unit hotkey groups ^.^

it only is a problem vs Mech, doing a lot of drops helps if you are bad at controling maxed armies because then you wont need to have perfect flanks ^.^

to OP: why do you need more indepth? stuff like scouting drone/overlords hotkeys is trivial, just pick something you're comfortable with and use it consistently so it becomes 2nd nature.

There are no secret tips to perfect hotkeying. Most important is learning to scroll through your hatches macro'ing ( 4 thru 0 or 5 thru 0 ) and using F keys effectively to transfer workers when being harassed, or defending multiple places at once. It is true that Jaedong only uses 4 through 8 or something, but I can't understand why and if you have big enough hands to reach all the way to 0 then I don't see why you wouldn't. He must use F keys as well for macro'ing, and considering how fast he is I guess it is just as good, but it makes your game more chaotic imo. If you get used to F2 F3 F4 for your first 3 bases it will add a sense of calmth and control to your game, because you can get right where u want to be with 1 click, and the more you play the more usefull this is.

I always reassigned F2 to new expansion in the late game that I had no room for in my hatch hotkeys since I already had 6 hatches, this is usually later in the game so no need to have a shortkey for your main then in most cases. Once you get huge, you could group 4 macro hatches together somewhere and use F keys as well for this. Personally however, I always grouped with them my hatch on '0' so I just got used to double clicking 0 and then using those 'macro' hatcheries.

once you get spell units like defiler, it doesnt matter if you group them on 1, with your others on 2 and 3 (or 4 if you use my keys), as long as you use them consistently so after a while your brain knows what hotkey is what without double checking.
Team Liquid
dennisvreyes
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
175 Posts
July 04 2010 14:43 GMT
#18
saltywet kid cant read.
7 : OL with attack group
890 : hatches

thanks badbinky. secondary attack groups may be the 2 and 3 in the "1-3 units" standard play, sort of the group flanking while others (3) attack head on.
if a game gets long enough, i might have 3, 4 or 5 more hatches clumped together i refer to as production hatches, this may be the standard 4-0. main reason of this post is that im not sure if pros wud prefer 4sz5sz6sz etc etc than f2 then ctrl click z,h,m,u etc, especially late game when you have 12 hatch or more. im not very sure that's why i asked.

123 40 standard is interesting for me because:
1. what happens to spell units? do they become part of attack units and you have to select them off the group everytime?
2. only 3 groups for zerg?
3. 40 requires too many steps, to illustrate: 4sh5sh6sh7sh8sz9sz0sz (21) vs F2 ctrl+click h, F3 ctrl-click z (8). assuming the best conditions for both, 40 will produce only 21 worth of supply count, while F2 F3 (4 hatch each, eg) produces 24.

thanks
dennisvreyes
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
175 Posts
July 04 2010 14:48 GMT
#19
sorry saltywet, misread my bad.
thanks ret
Liquid`Ret
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Netherlands4535 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 15:07:37
July 04 2010 14:50 GMT
#20
@Dennis. The problem with these macro hatches is that in most scenarios taking a base is much better than adding a 'macro hatch' , so untill the very late game you wont be able to just at anytime make 4 hatcheries next to each other and support them till you have a proper ammount of bases in which using 4 thru 0 is more effective.

In ZvT, you add 1 macro hatch after you've got 3 bases. (5 hatch)

In ZvP, you add macro hatches after you got 4 bases and are on your way to cracklings. (6 hatch already in place).

you understand? untill you have a bgh style economy theres no point in macro hatches and they will be a waste of money. In the end when you become a super gosu you will find a good combination of your numeric hotkeys and F key macro (in the late game most likely and they will be usefull!)

But untill that point in the game its more effective to use 4 through 0 or w/e so better get that down perfectly first
Team Liquid
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