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Papua New Guinea152 Posts
So yeah...I am a noob who has around 60 apm. I play zerg, and I know zerg requires a lot of apm/multitasking at the higher levels. But, just for fun, and to show that it can in fact be done, here's 2 games of mine against guys who had about twice as much apm as me!!!! (and I still won these games)
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=35682 (62 vs 104 apm)
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=35666 (63 vs 132 apm)
...
Now I know you guys are going to flame me for being a D- player but the fact of the matter is, in the first game, my opponent was a solid D last season, and in the second game, my opponent was D+ last season. They had the apm advantage over me, but my overall strategy/tactics were better, which explains why I won.
A major reason I'm posting these is to show a lot of people who are just starting out (with either SC: BW or SC2) that apm doesn't necessarily dictate your rank. It's more about what you're doing, not necessarily how fast you're doing it.
Of course, I can't speak for everyone. Multitasking is obviously extremely important ~ C- and above. I'm not at that level, but in any case, these games have been strangely satisfying for me.
  
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United States42442 Posts
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Tough to have a "superior" strategy every game. As you get to higher levels you won't get build order wins and so forth. Your opponents will also be very good at scouting, so your "strategy" won't give you an edge. So yeah, work on mechanics. Didn't watch the reps, don't even have Broodwar installed. I just didn't approve of the message you're trying to send.
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United States42442 Posts
His opponent was a solid D to be fair. They don't just give those Ds out to anyone.
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I had around 180 apm as B- in BW
I play with about 70 in SC2. SC2 don't requiere much apm at all, and I love it 
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you cant just start a need account if u get d-
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On June 08 2010 11:36 OminouS wrote:I had around 180 apm as B- in BW I play with about 70 in SC2. SC2 don't requiere much apm at all, and I love it
same i can rape with just one hand now.
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Nobody will flame you for being a D- player
People will troll you for posting these though lol
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what i really want to know is are you really from papua new guinea?
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On June 08 2010 11:34 selboN wrote:
Tough to have a "superior" strategy every game. As you get to higher levels you won't get build order wins and so forth. Your opponents will also be very good at scouting, so your "strategy" won't give you an edge. So yeah, work on mechanics. Didn't watch the reps, don't even have Broodwar installed. I just didn't approve of the message you're trying to send.
The guy admitted that he was D and that these reps werent trying to prove that his strategy would succeed at higher levels. Also, you give an extremely angry remark without even watching the replays. It seems like you know a LOT(notice the sarcasm) about gameplay and strategy for a guy who doesnt even have Broodwar installed.
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On June 08 2010 11:41 jackofclubs81 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 11:34 selboN wrote:
Tough to have a "superior" strategy every game. As you get to higher levels you won't get build order wins and so forth. Your opponents will also be very good at scouting, so your "strategy" won't give you an edge. So yeah, work on mechanics. Didn't watch the reps, don't even have Broodwar installed. I just didn't approve of the message you're trying to send. The guy admitted that he was D and that these reps werent trying to prove that his strategy would succeed at higher levels. Also, you give an extremely angry remark without even watching the replays. It seems like you know a LOT(notice the sarcasm) about gameplay and strategy for a guy who doesnt even have Broodwar installed.
He is C+
edit: was C+ protoss
although to be fair I don't see how that's hard either !
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10387 Posts
so you won 2 games out of how many...? I watched the PvZ and I'd say you're lucky the Protoss got storm out super late. Practice a build order, get faster and watch more games I guess to build up your game sense
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On June 08 2010 11:42 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 11:41 jackofclubs81 wrote:On June 08 2010 11:34 selboN wrote:
Tough to have a "superior" strategy every game. As you get to higher levels you won't get build order wins and so forth. Your opponents will also be very good at scouting, so your "strategy" won't give you an edge. So yeah, work on mechanics. Didn't watch the reps, don't even have Broodwar installed. I just didn't approve of the message you're trying to send. The guy admitted that he was D and that these reps werent trying to prove that his strategy would succeed at higher levels. Also, you give an extremely angry remark without even watching the replays. It seems like you know a LOT(notice the sarcasm) about gameplay and strategy for a guy who doesnt even have Broodwar installed. He is C+ edit: was C+ protoss although to be fair I don't see how that's hard either !
Lol im a noob.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On June 08 2010 11:36 OminouS wrote:I had around 180 apm as B- in BW I play with about 70 in SC2. SC2 don't requiere much apm at all, and I love it
i had 140
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apm doesn't matter.
you're just bi-est.
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On June 08 2010 11:42 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 11:41 jackofclubs81 wrote:On June 08 2010 11:34 selboN wrote:
Tough to have a "superior" strategy every game. As you get to higher levels you won't get build order wins and so forth. Your opponents will also be very good at scouting, so your "strategy" won't give you an edge. So yeah, work on mechanics. Didn't watch the reps, don't even have Broodwar installed. I just didn't approve of the message you're trying to send. The guy admitted that he was D and that these reps werent trying to prove that his strategy would succeed at higher levels. Also, you give an extremely angry remark without even watching the replays. It seems like you know a LOT(notice the sarcasm) about gameplay and strategy for a guy who doesnt even have Broodwar installed. He is C+ edit: was C+ protoss although to be fair I don't see how that's hard either !
lolol <3
stream more! i never see you on! (though maybe i might just be checking at the wrong times?)
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Isn't it a fact that Stork is a slow player with very low APM?
However, even for Stork, he has about 150-200 APM in every game (if I recall correctly).
Therefore, I think APM does not matter after a certain level. I believe this threshold to be around 150.
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On June 08 2010 11:47 redtooth wrote:
apm doesn't matter.
you're just bi-est.
dude, u gotta skate
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On June 08 2010 11:47 redtooth wrote:
apm doesn't matter.
you're just bi-est.
LOL
dude you made me choke on my food.
I don't even know why I find these dropzone jokes funny XD
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On June 08 2010 11:51 illu wrote:
Isn't it a fact that Stork is a slow player with very low APM?
However, even for Stork, he has about 150-200 APM in every game (if I recall correctly).
Therefore, I think APM does not matter after a certain level. I believe this threshold to be around 150.
storks apm is like 240-260 in most reps ive seen.
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everyone knows apm doesn't matter. why must this be brought up so often?
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On June 08 2010 11:51 illu wrote:
Isn't it a fact that Stork is a slow player with very low APM?
However, even for Stork, he has about 150-200 APM in every game (if I recall correctly).
Therefore, I think APM does not matter after a certain level. I believe this threshold to be around 150.
Stork is definitely higher. I know PJ's APM sometimes dips below 200
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Once you get to D+ and everyone does the sameish build orders from D+-A+ i think it's more about how good your opponent is at disrupting your multitasking.
If you can outmicro your opponent well then this also means your multitasking becomes better than theirs sometimes, because your good micro in battles can distract them a lot and make them forget to do things like building more marines.
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On June 08 2010 11:34 KwarK wrote:
lol
12 years late huh
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There is no thing called apm-advantage on ranks E->C-. I've seen many D-noobs with 300apm and my ~200 is enough to beat two of those at same time.
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anything less than A- is chobo anyway, just different levels of chobo
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How do you guys get your eapm up? I've been stuck at 120 for at least a year now.
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spam and clikc really fast
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On June 08 2010 11:47 redtooth wrote:
apm doesn't matter.
you're just bi-est.
It bogles my mind that theyre almost as bi-est as gozey
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On June 08 2010 12:11 Count9 wrote:
How do you guys get your eapm up? I've been stuck at 120 for at least a year now.
whats your redundancy? i've found that everytime i jump my apm up a bit, my redundancy follows, and so my eapm stays about the same, then as i play a lot more, the redundancy goes down. then the cycle repeats.
ie:
90apm, 60eapm
90apm, 70eapm
150apm, 75eapm
150apm, 90eapm
200apm, 95eapm
200apm, 110eapm
250apm, 110eapm <-- where i am now
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apm is all about you... i can feel how when i play "faster" then myself in others game i play better and my apm are higher.. but comparing yourself o others is not really important... u can always make fun of some friends xd...
i think is something like
better player => more apm
and not
more apm => better player
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On June 08 2010 12:20 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 12:11 Count9 wrote:
How do you guys get your eapm up? I've been stuck at 120 for at least a year now. whats your redundancy? i've found that everytime i jump my apm up a bit, my redundancy follows, and so my eapm stays about the same, then as i play a lot more, the redundancy goes down. then the cycle repeats. ie: 90apm, 60eapm 90apm, 70eapm 150apm, 75eapm 150apm, 90eapm 200apm, 95eapm 200apm, 110eapm 250apm, 110eapm <-- where i am now
When I feel like I'm playing my best between 40-45%, when I actively try for more apm I get like 50-60 redundancy and sometimes eapm even goes down. I just feel like I can't do enough stuff, there's always something I'm thinking about that I should do then I skip 2 pylons and a round of probes :/
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I don't even understand how you can be doing 1 action a second. Do you just stare at the screen and slowly move your mouse around and not use hotkeys?
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What does "solid D" mean? This is a serious question, I am horribly confused as to what it means to be a solid X for any rank.
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On June 08 2010 14:19 FiBsTeR wrote:
What does "solid D" mean? This is a serious question, I am horribly confused as to what it means to be a solid X for any rank.
it means not only did you achieve the rank, you will keep yourself there while you keep playing. For example, my max iccup rank is C+. But i was way too bad to keep myself there, so the season i played most games i gained c+ rank like 5-6 times but lost it everytime and ended up on c (: thus i can say i was a solid C rank that season. Now im probably more like solid C-
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i watched the second game, i would say it was random d players who made really bad decisions
plus, its a zvz and its not hard to beat higher levels in zvz, i beat some guy who was b- in one season in zvz
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High APM can also mean doing the wrong things faster, which make you lose even faster. Its a double edge sword.
Its always more important to do the right thing, and then you worry about speed.
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Yes, you're damn right. Zerg requires the highest apm and best multitasking skills whereas protoss requires the least. Most of the good protoss players have 200-300 average apm whereas JulyZerg had an instantaneous apm of 818 in one of his games. Although you're outsmarting your opponents in these games, this "outsmart" thing won't be enough once you reach C or higher.
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Congrats... You can certainly win some game with low apm, but you're gonna need to speed up eventually.
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with 60 apm you can still be the world's best player in WoW!
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I proxy hatch against D level players sometimes. It's not really that I'm using a superior strategy, it's just that D level players have no game-sense at all and can't smell when something is fishy.
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APM doesn't live up to all the hype.....
EAPM is more important. Keep practicing, keep playing, keep finding ways to improve, and keep studying, and you'll do better. There is a correlation between APM and skill, and as you get better, your APM should also increase.
More importantly, remember that it is a game. Have fun!
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Most times I play casually I'll be around 55-65 APM and do fine, high APM isn't necessary, just like Day[9]'s cast on the mental checklist. You dont' need the highest APM in the world to win games. My winning percentage in beta was around 65-70% and rarely was I against someone with lower APM than me. Smart playing can beat faster spam.
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EAPM won't help you win ZvZ Imprevious. That match-up requires a lot of repetitive clicking so that you can force your units to reassess their pathing, and EAPM considers that spam.
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In ZvZ, I went something like 10-2 in the D/D+ levels using Hydralisks. I had a similar record using 9 hatch inbase into ling/scourge. This is simply because the D and D+ players don't know how to react to it, or they are simply terrible..... Both strats stopped working nearly that well at the C- level. And I doubt that I broke 100 apm in any of those games. And C- players can't snipe scourge very well either..... Those that can die to 2 lings killing all of their drones, cause they`re not paying attention anymore.....
EAPM for him is much more important right now. Splitting 12 lings into 2 groups of 6 and getting a better concave is better than spam-clicking a single group..... And splitting it into a group of 10 and a group of 2, dancing the 10 around until you get some help and sending the 2 behind enemy lines to kill all his drones is also a better move than spam-clicking 1 group.....
Better timing and multitask will be much more useful for him right now than spam clicking some zerglings..... And, if he could snipe scourge with reasonable success, he could be out of the D level pretty easily..... The truth is, he's got a lot of work before spam clicks actually become important. Watch the games and you`ll see.
Btw, I watched your rep vs NonY recently. That was freaking awesome, too bad it didn`t work 
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On June 09 2010 13:29 DarkwindHK wrote:
High APM can also mean doing the wrong things faster, which make you lose even faster. Its a double edge sword.
Its always more important to do the right thing, and then you worry about speed.
How does doing the wrong thing faster make you lose faster? An ill advised a-move into a tank clump, for instance, will lose you the game right there whether you do it in 1 second or 5 seconds
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10387 Posts
On June 08 2010 11:58 blabber wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 11:51 illu wrote:
Isn't it a fact that Stork is a slow player with very low APM?
However, even for Stork, he has about 150-200 APM in every game (if I recall correctly).
Therefore, I think APM does not matter after a certain level. I believe this threshold to be around 150. Stork is definitely higher. I know PJ's APM sometimes dips below 200
Stork said he has increased his apm, where his apm was like 250 before he said that. I think the absolute slowest progamer I've ever seen was Movie, who has apm like 230? His low apm really shows in his play too, as he doesn't react to things very quickly and sometimes things do WAAAAAAAY more damage than they should (Like when Bisu slipped in a DT and killed like 20 something odd probes on Triathalon, but the real fail was that a rallied obs saw the DT, but Movie failed to notice it himself).
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On June 08 2010 11:36 KwarK wrote:
His opponent was a solid D to be fair. They don't just give those Ds out to anyone.
fuckin' lool.
moderate fail blog.
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EPT
