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Blogs > Frobert
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Frobert
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada113 Posts
May 18 2010 19:09 GMT
#1
TERRAN


These brave, ingenious, soft bags of mostly water have quite a few tricks up their sleeve in SC2. At this point in the beta, Terran is considered to be the race with the most diversity and range of strategies. Kudos to Blizzard for designing such a wide range of units and interesting macro mechanics for the race. Some things just don't seem right yet though.


Viking
I love the design of the viking. It is arguably the most powerful air-air unit and it has interesting potential for harassment with its ground mode. Something just isn't right with the unit though. The range on this thing is HUGE. To compensate, it moves incredibly slow for a jet-propelled fighter. Why exactly is this?

This unit's problems, and arguably the single most frustrating aspect of all air units save for the void ray and current phoenix is the need to fully decelerate before firing (this is explained much for effectively in Lalush's post, which can be found here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=121769 )

The viking is currently a floating turret that with a ground force to protect it effectively creates a no-fly zone within its attack radius. There is still a wide range of ways to take them down, such as using ground to air or massing a larger force of air units and engaging directly. The latter is the problem with the viking. Due to the mechanics of stopping fully before firing, the viking is a unit devoid of micro maneuverability. Its large range, the farthest of any air unit, means any attacking units will be fired upon before attacking. Imagine a scenario in which two equal sized squads of vikings are ordered to a-move towards each other. They will move, stop, and begin firing at each other. Both players' only options for attempting to win will be to focus down each others' units, and move damaged units out of the way. Yes, that is micro, but it is not as dynamic as it could be. What it really means is that currently, to defeat a properly microed squad of vikings, you require a larger squad of vikings. There is no room for smaller groups of air-air units to engage without being destroyed. This is counter to the dynamic air-air combat that is capable in the game (it was capable over a decade ago and demonstrated in BW) which allowed smaller air forces to maximize their effectiveness against larger forces. What the viking needs is the mechanic that was demonstrated by Sluggaslamoo in his Project Micro (http://www.youtube.com/user/SluggaSlamoo#p/a/u/2/8i6g8X-d0tc)

This addresses the rock paper scissors nature of the viking and the mentality of "My group of X is larger than your group of X, so I win" Currently, this cost effective unit contributes to the stale nature of air to air combat and the unfortunate need to have more units to win. Bland. Bland. Having to actively engage in combat with air units instead of a-moving. Everyone wants it.


Banshee

This unit, suspiciously similar to the similar gunship from Avatar, is one of my favorites in SC2.

[image loading]
C'mon... really?

One thing I noticed, and other may have as well, is that it is a helicopter yet it moves nothing like one. Meanwhile, the phoenix moves in exactly the way I would expect the Banshee to.

I summed up what I want to see for the Banshee in a post. Hopefully we will be able to see this in action soon.
On May 16 2010 05:17 Frobert wrote:
I would love to see some sort of experiment done with the banshee. I think the unit's design demands that it have the same auto lock/strafing mechanic Blizzard gave the phoenix. If you applied the same mechanics as the v0.2 phoenix micro (auto lock, hold position to fire) as well as a speed increase (on par with or slower than the phoenix), reduced range and reduced damage, it would make for a much more entertaining unit. This way, increased attention to banshee micro would make banshee harass that much more interesting while a lack of attention would mean getting owned by anti air. Overall, changes like these just make the game so much more dynamic. Keep up the good work, hopefully it will be noticed.


The v0.2 Phoenix micro I was referring to can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/SluggaSlamoo#p/u/3/_jbjFlubrxc

IMO the Banshee would fit its role way better if these changes were implemented. The ability to two shot a worker from quite far away is a lazy way to make the unit a base raider. Give it some slick movement and micro capabilities while reducing damage output and range and you have a way more interesting unit whose utility is increased by micro.


Ghost

The Ghost in SC2 has some powerful abilities, and it is recently seeing more use in games although it is still under-utilized. A change I think would be reasonable is to make EMP rounds disable force-fields.

Reasons this is a bad idea:
-EMP already makes Sentries less effective by reducing energy, meaning that if they are able to get off a FF they should be rewarded with its full effect.
-EMP is very effective vs Protoss and this may push the capabilities of the Ghost too far.

That being considered, the Ghost is quite a large investment in tech and gas cost to create. This inevitably comes at the expense of some other tech or unit production. Meanwhile, a Protoss player that is abusing FF will have a very large group of Sentries which come at a lower cost than the Ghost, and at a lower tech level. The Ghost is still not seeing a great deal of play, and it would be more likely to be added in to the mix in TvP if it could counter the FF ability. FF will still displace units and destroy a formation when used, and it will require effort on the part of a Terran player to disable force fields in the heat of battle. This also means that EMP and a ghost's energy is used to target its own army instead of reducing the shields and energy of the opponent. Realistically, there should be a counter to a low tier ability for late game pushes. It still requires forethought, a considerable investment and some micro to implement.


Battlecruiser
If any unit in the game has the ability to move and fire at the same time, it should be the BC. The thing is a floating fortress with independently moving gun turrets. It only makes sense. The BC should not have to face its target to fire, and should emit its projectiles in much the same way as a carrier does (without returning, of course).


Marauder
So much has been said about the Marauder, I'm not going to get into it. My opinion is that something should be done about the "unholy trinity", and that the terrible,terrible damage arms race is what caused the blandness of the roach and the perceived overpowered-ness of R/M/I. Only time can tell.


That pretty much sums up my dreams for the future of humanity. If anyone reads this, tell me if these ideas are nonsense, and post your ideas in the comments as well.

Next post will delve into the heart of the swarm.


**
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
May 18 2010 19:31 GMT
#2
I agree on the viking part, but dont you dare touch my banshees
IndecisivePenguin
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States771 Posts
May 18 2010 20:29 GMT
#3
These sound like pretty decent ideas but I definitely reject the idea of EMP negating FF. Ghosts already make it hard for Protoss to win battles vs Terran, evening the ground at least. Negating forcefields would just make sentries virtually useless. Their energy would probably be taken away before they could guardian shield or anything too.
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
May 18 2010 21:04 GMT
#4
Viking and Banshee complaints are reasonable imo.
Ghosts are useful enough in tvp. They will be used more and more over time, as micro capabilities of players improve.
BCs are hard to judge as they obviously didn't see too much use yet.
I'd want the Marauder scaled down along with a bunch of other changes on all races. I really wonder why Blizz didn't even try tweaking it for a while.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
May 18 2010 21:40 GMT
#5
On May 19 2010 04:31 Catch]22 wrote:
I agree on the viking part, but dont you dare touch my banshees

cw)minsean(ru
Haemonculus
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States6980 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-18 22:00:44
May 18 2010 21:59 GMT
#6
On May 19 2010 04:31 Catch]22 wrote:
I agree on the viking part, but dont you dare touch my banshees


Second! I <3 my banshees! Ever since they were introduced I thought they looked like Orcas from C&C, but in a good way.

edit: I also absolutely agree with battlecruiser movement/shooting. It would add a lot of cool utility to the unit if it could move whilst firing.
I admire your commitment to being *very* oily
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
May 18 2010 23:00 GMT
#7
Good thing on Vikings.
And like others in the thread have iterated already, Banshees are cute :3
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Xenocide_Knight
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Korea (South)2625 Posts
May 18 2010 23:29 GMT
#8
Dear Blizzard,

Change the banshee please..

Every time I use it, I feel like my guardians got speed upgrade. So bland.. not even M&M to mow down. Give banshees difficult moving shot, short range, less dmg, and bounce splash. Also, give them wings and screeching sounds when I click on them.. And the ability to stack in groups of 11 when selected with a supply depot. And fuck missiles, have them shoot glaive worms

Sincerely,
A disgruntled and nostalgic zerg player who switched to terran due to the sc2 zerg being so lame
Shine[Kal] #1 fan
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