• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:09
CEST 09:09
KST 16:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy9[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 237Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
Learn Practical SEO and Digital Marketing Skills Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague BSL Season 23 BW General Discussion NaDa's Body
Tourneys
PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Gaming Intensity, Problemati…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9003 users

Searching for Cheese: The beginning (Image heavy)

Blogs > Captain
Post a Reply
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-04 02:19:01
May 03 2010 23:22 GMT
#1
I’ve been browsing teamliquid for awhile now, (perhaps two years or so) and I’ve decided that I’d like to give something back to its great community. After all, I’ve benefitted in countless ways from the amazing resource that is liquipedia as well as many insightful and hilarious strategy forum threads. As such, I’ve embarked on a project to create- and share with you- the perfect cheese.

It should be noted that I am somewhere around D+ in terms of actual skill, and that watching one of my traditional ZvP replays is akin to surveying a train wreck in slow motion. Nevertheless, I believe that my micro is sufficient on the small scale of cheese builds to execute them capably.

To begin the investigation, I have decided on the first candidate for the perfect cheese. It is fairly straightforward, and only works well on two player maps with thin cliffs around the bases. Destination is the perfect map for this build, especially since it’s quite easy to find players for Destination games. In terms of mechanics, the cheese is as follows:

8 rax
8 rax
8 supply
8 scv

Note that at seven supply, a SCV should be sortied from your base. The next SCV which spawns should also be sent to follow that first brave soul. The SCVs should make their way to the bottom of the opponent’s base’s cliff, at which point they should make two raxes as minerals allow. As the raxes complete, they should be lifted in to the opponent’s base. Once finished, the SCVs should be sent in to the opponent’s base for harass, and a bunker is frequently a wise investment. From here, the fight is straightforward. Assuming all has gone as planned, mass up four marines and go worker hunting. Kill initial fighting units as necessary, but the workers are top priority.
So it works on paper, perhaps. But does it work in theory? Let’s follow with a case study. The following games are drawn from a selection of some thirty-five which I played ranked on iCCup using the above build.

Game One: TvP Destination

Things go awry early this game, with me sending out both SCVs at eight supply due to a mishap involving an instant messaging client. On the way to the opponent’s base, they encounter a pylon scout.

[image loading]
I’m so bad at this game

This is the worst possible scenario. Having scouted my super-early SCV on its way to the left, (My path should not have taken me near the bridges; that was an error due to me being largely unfamiliar with the map) this probe will probably suspect that something is up. I can’t simply send the SCV to the planned cheese location, since protoss is now alert. I must resort to drastic measures. I use both SCVs and attempt to engage the probe, but I fail to attack it even once. It continues on its merry way to my base, and something occurs to me.
What if he didn’t even notice? I mean, at this point my account is around 1000, and he’s pretty close to the same. It’s possible that his eyes had strayed from the minimap; that he had not even noticed the SCVs yet. I decide to test my hypothesis.

[image loading]
I hope he doesn’t see me.

I notice no alteration in the probe’s movement, so I effect a similar maneuver with my other SCV, and hastily make with the barrackses. They complete without major incident, and his scout probe fails to locate them. Having made it over the hump, at least in my mind, I land my barracks and slam the finger of justice down on the M key.

[image loading]
That is one dark barracks.

I was tempted to GG right there. After such a failure of SCV travel, and after such an economically self-damaging cheese, I wasn’t even going to make it to the punch line. Yet, it occurred to me at that moment, that I was playing a D level protoss. I had a chance. All is not lost, I reasoned. My mineral surplus then was substantial, so I threw down a supply depot and a bunker. My protoss opponent had still failed to scout my raxes, so I persevered.
Here I encounted a stroke of pure dumb luck. My opponent, still clueless as to the presence of my raxes, had just finished his first zealot. (I discovered later that he went for a double gate pressure build, which SHOULD be a solid counter to mine.) He sent his first zealot to my base, but scouted my cheese as it reached the middle of the map. He then recalled it, but I already had marines out. It should have been all over for him, or so I thought. However, I once again shoot myself in the foot.

[image loading]
Marine: I’d really love to help you guys, but I might trip over this barracks.

The marine was trapped. After the second one finished I lifted the rax and corrected it, but the damage was done. What followed was some of the most intense marine micro I’ve ever had to pull off, but I was rewarded in the end with a disgusting, bloody 100 points.

So what do we draw from this? There were many failings on the parts of both players, but the fact that this build held up to an in-base double gate is promising. Perhaps if I had a more practiced, perfected version of this cheese, it would be invincible on Destination. More data is needed.

Game Two: TvT on Desti

This game went more or less according to plan, with one rather large exception.

[image loading]
What the placement

Dear god this placement is strange. Even though I still managed to win due to my opponent’s reluctance to pull SCVs off his mineral line, this has shown me a rather nasty problem with my placement. The moral of the story is that terrans like to put their buildings in strange places, and that my rax placement needs adjusting. In the future, I will build both raxes in the opponent’s third, moving this rightmost one over to the left. It should be noted that I played another game in which this curiously placed rax was overlord scouted, with disastrous results.

Game three: TvT Desti

Having now gotten to D+ with this build, I fearlessly started a TvT with my new and improved rax placement. As his SCV began jerking around in my base, I will admit I giggled to think that he would be checking the obvious proxy spot in his base and fortifying his ramp in preparation for some sort of proxy tech assault. Alas, reality was much crueler than my imaginings.

[image loading]
He finded me!

I lift off the first rax, only to discover that, to my horror, he has already scouted everything. Determined not to give up, I send the rax in, determined to build a bunker and try to out-micro my opponent. Placement and battle plans at this point begin to bloom in my mind as I plan out the best course of action and how many marines I need to make before assaulting. Suddenly,

[image loading]
excus me sir ur in th way

It dawns on me. The true weakness of this build has been exposed. Beyond any issues of mineral economy, unit composition, and intensity of unit control, this cheese has one fatal, undeniable flaw that will forever cripple its usefulness. Indeed, there is only one possible conclusion here.

[image loading]
Possibly the shortest ranked game of Starcraft I ever played.

With this, it is decided. The double rax Destination lift is not, and can never become the perfect cheese. This fatal weakness- that such a simple, elegant defense by the opponent can completely destroy the build’s entire advantage- it is too much of a failure.

Forty or so games of case study after conceiving of this build, it has been completely and soundly defeated by the honorable gentlemen of the D+ ladder. I will not give up, however. Somewhere, on some map, there MUST be a perfect cheese.

And I will find it.


EDIT: D+. I meant D+.

****
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
May 03 2010 23:26 GMT
#2
hahaha sexy read

PS: the perfect cheese is parmesan
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
pathy
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Taiwan619 Posts
May 03 2010 23:27 GMT
#3
hahaha. entertaining
Graphicscolosi suck
Graham
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada1259 Posts
May 03 2010 23:29 GMT
#4
Haha entertaining read for sure.
The pictures kept me hooked, haha.
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
May 04 2010 00:05 GMT
#5
haha i feel bad for the stuck marine lmao
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
May 04 2010 00:08 GMT
#6
That marine made me cradle my head in my hands for a few precious seconds >.<
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9110 Posts
May 04 2010 00:44 GMT
#7
haha nice read, gl with your pursuit of cheese!
YejinYejin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1053 Posts
May 04 2010 00:55 GMT
#8
For the second game, that barracks placement is not so weird. Terrans like doing that for a faster float scout. I do it sometimes, too.
안지호
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21247 Posts
May 04 2010 01:13 GMT
#9
Cheesy Terran scum >=O
TranslatorBaa!
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
May 04 2010 01:29 GMT
#10
On May 04 2010 09:55 DTK-m2 wrote:
For the second game, that barracks placement is not so weird. Terrans like doing that for a faster float scout. I do it sometimes, too.


*GASP*

That makes so much sense it's painful! Thanks for telling me ^_^
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
May 04 2010 01:41 GMT
#11
hahaha, entertaining and a fun read... Especially as a terran player that never cheeses :D
+ Show Spoiler +
DO A DOUBLE PROXY STARPORT PLZ PLZ, or DOUBLE PROXY STARGATE
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Chaos
Profile Joined July 2009
United States772 Posts
May 04 2010 15:44 GMT
#12
I'm glad you finally finished this and :D I still remember the first day you were using this and won however many games in a row.
FruitMarket
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
May 04 2010 16:03 GMT
#13
I think I won eight in a row. Then people started pulling probes, and things got tricky. xD
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 51m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 2355
sorry 78
Shinee 62
Bale 30
NaDa 29
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Dota 2
XaKoH 284
NeuroSwarm176
League of Legends
JimRising 600
Other Games
summit1g10359
ceh9372
Happy345
PiGStarcraft218
Sick149
Maynarde139
Livibee130
Mew2King82
crisheroes70
UpATreeSC43
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream4506
Other Games
gamesdonequick620
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 488
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile112
• Letter147
• LUISG 3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2166
League of Legends
• Lourlo1388
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
2h 51m
Replay Cast
16h 51m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 20h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
GSL
3 days
Yamato Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.