• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:42
CEST 17:42
KST 00:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !7Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Do we have a pimpest plays list? Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (Spoiler) Asl ro8 D winner interview BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
The Letting Off Steam Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1746 users

Searching for Cheese: The beginning (Image heavy)

Blogs > Captain
Post a Reply
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-04 02:19:01
May 03 2010 23:22 GMT
#1
I’ve been browsing teamliquid for awhile now, (perhaps two years or so) and I’ve decided that I’d like to give something back to its great community. After all, I’ve benefitted in countless ways from the amazing resource that is liquipedia as well as many insightful and hilarious strategy forum threads. As such, I’ve embarked on a project to create- and share with you- the perfect cheese.

It should be noted that I am somewhere around D+ in terms of actual skill, and that watching one of my traditional ZvP replays is akin to surveying a train wreck in slow motion. Nevertheless, I believe that my micro is sufficient on the small scale of cheese builds to execute them capably.

To begin the investigation, I have decided on the first candidate for the perfect cheese. It is fairly straightforward, and only works well on two player maps with thin cliffs around the bases. Destination is the perfect map for this build, especially since it’s quite easy to find players for Destination games. In terms of mechanics, the cheese is as follows:

8 rax
8 rax
8 supply
8 scv

Note that at seven supply, a SCV should be sortied from your base. The next SCV which spawns should also be sent to follow that first brave soul. The SCVs should make their way to the bottom of the opponent’s base’s cliff, at which point they should make two raxes as minerals allow. As the raxes complete, they should be lifted in to the opponent’s base. Once finished, the SCVs should be sent in to the opponent’s base for harass, and a bunker is frequently a wise investment. From here, the fight is straightforward. Assuming all has gone as planned, mass up four marines and go worker hunting. Kill initial fighting units as necessary, but the workers are top priority.
So it works on paper, perhaps. But does it work in theory? Let’s follow with a case study. The following games are drawn from a selection of some thirty-five which I played ranked on iCCup using the above build.

Game One: TvP Destination

Things go awry early this game, with me sending out both SCVs at eight supply due to a mishap involving an instant messaging client. On the way to the opponent’s base, they encounter a pylon scout.

[image loading]
I’m so bad at this game

This is the worst possible scenario. Having scouted my super-early SCV on its way to the left, (My path should not have taken me near the bridges; that was an error due to me being largely unfamiliar with the map) this probe will probably suspect that something is up. I can’t simply send the SCV to the planned cheese location, since protoss is now alert. I must resort to drastic measures. I use both SCVs and attempt to engage the probe, but I fail to attack it even once. It continues on its merry way to my base, and something occurs to me.
What if he didn’t even notice? I mean, at this point my account is around 1000, and he’s pretty close to the same. It’s possible that his eyes had strayed from the minimap; that he had not even noticed the SCVs yet. I decide to test my hypothesis.

[image loading]
I hope he doesn’t see me.

I notice no alteration in the probe’s movement, so I effect a similar maneuver with my other SCV, and hastily make with the barrackses. They complete without major incident, and his scout probe fails to locate them. Having made it over the hump, at least in my mind, I land my barracks and slam the finger of justice down on the M key.

[image loading]
That is one dark barracks.

I was tempted to GG right there. After such a failure of SCV travel, and after such an economically self-damaging cheese, I wasn’t even going to make it to the punch line. Yet, it occurred to me at that moment, that I was playing a D level protoss. I had a chance. All is not lost, I reasoned. My mineral surplus then was substantial, so I threw down a supply depot and a bunker. My protoss opponent had still failed to scout my raxes, so I persevered.
Here I encounted a stroke of pure dumb luck. My opponent, still clueless as to the presence of my raxes, had just finished his first zealot. (I discovered later that he went for a double gate pressure build, which SHOULD be a solid counter to mine.) He sent his first zealot to my base, but scouted my cheese as it reached the middle of the map. He then recalled it, but I already had marines out. It should have been all over for him, or so I thought. However, I once again shoot myself in the foot.

[image loading]
Marine: I’d really love to help you guys, but I might trip over this barracks.

The marine was trapped. After the second one finished I lifted the rax and corrected it, but the damage was done. What followed was some of the most intense marine micro I’ve ever had to pull off, but I was rewarded in the end with a disgusting, bloody 100 points.

So what do we draw from this? There were many failings on the parts of both players, but the fact that this build held up to an in-base double gate is promising. Perhaps if I had a more practiced, perfected version of this cheese, it would be invincible on Destination. More data is needed.

Game Two: TvT on Desti

This game went more or less according to plan, with one rather large exception.

[image loading]
What the placement

Dear god this placement is strange. Even though I still managed to win due to my opponent’s reluctance to pull SCVs off his mineral line, this has shown me a rather nasty problem with my placement. The moral of the story is that terrans like to put their buildings in strange places, and that my rax placement needs adjusting. In the future, I will build both raxes in the opponent’s third, moving this rightmost one over to the left. It should be noted that I played another game in which this curiously placed rax was overlord scouted, with disastrous results.

Game three: TvT Desti

Having now gotten to D+ with this build, I fearlessly started a TvT with my new and improved rax placement. As his SCV began jerking around in my base, I will admit I giggled to think that he would be checking the obvious proxy spot in his base and fortifying his ramp in preparation for some sort of proxy tech assault. Alas, reality was much crueler than my imaginings.

[image loading]
He finded me!

I lift off the first rax, only to discover that, to my horror, he has already scouted everything. Determined not to give up, I send the rax in, determined to build a bunker and try to out-micro my opponent. Placement and battle plans at this point begin to bloom in my mind as I plan out the best course of action and how many marines I need to make before assaulting. Suddenly,

[image loading]
excus me sir ur in th way

It dawns on me. The true weakness of this build has been exposed. Beyond any issues of mineral economy, unit composition, and intensity of unit control, this cheese has one fatal, undeniable flaw that will forever cripple its usefulness. Indeed, there is only one possible conclusion here.

[image loading]
Possibly the shortest ranked game of Starcraft I ever played.

With this, it is decided. The double rax Destination lift is not, and can never become the perfect cheese. This fatal weakness- that such a simple, elegant defense by the opponent can completely destroy the build’s entire advantage- it is too much of a failure.

Forty or so games of case study after conceiving of this build, it has been completely and soundly defeated by the honorable gentlemen of the D+ ladder. I will not give up, however. Somewhere, on some map, there MUST be a perfect cheese.

And I will find it.


EDIT: D+. I meant D+.

****
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
May 03 2010 23:26 GMT
#2
hahaha sexy read

PS: the perfect cheese is parmesan
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
pathy
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Taiwan619 Posts
May 03 2010 23:27 GMT
#3
hahaha. entertaining
Graphicscolosi suck
Graham
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada1259 Posts
May 03 2010 23:29 GMT
#4
Haha entertaining read for sure.
The pictures kept me hooked, haha.
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
May 04 2010 00:05 GMT
#5
haha i feel bad for the stuck marine lmao
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
May 04 2010 00:08 GMT
#6
That marine made me cradle my head in my hands for a few precious seconds >.<
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9109 Posts
May 04 2010 00:44 GMT
#7
haha nice read, gl with your pursuit of cheese!
YejinYejin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1053 Posts
May 04 2010 00:55 GMT
#8
For the second game, that barracks placement is not so weird. Terrans like doing that for a faster float scout. I do it sometimes, too.
안지호
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
May 04 2010 01:13 GMT
#9
Cheesy Terran scum >=O
TranslatorBaa!
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
May 04 2010 01:29 GMT
#10
On May 04 2010 09:55 DTK-m2 wrote:
For the second game, that barracks placement is not so weird. Terrans like doing that for a faster float scout. I do it sometimes, too.


*GASP*

That makes so much sense it's painful! Thanks for telling me ^_^
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
May 04 2010 01:41 GMT
#11
hahaha, entertaining and a fun read... Especially as a terran player that never cheeses :D
+ Show Spoiler +
DO A DOUBLE PROXY STARPORT PLZ PLZ, or DOUBLE PROXY STARGATE
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Chaos
Profile Joined July 2009
United States772 Posts
May 04 2010 15:44 GMT
#12
I'm glad you finally finished this and :D I still remember the first day you were using this and won however many games in a row.
FruitMarket
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
May 04 2010 16:03 GMT
#13
I think I won eight in a row. Then people started pulling probes, and things got tricky. xD
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 18m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 3901
RotterdaM 278
TKL 124
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43302
Bisu 2169
EffOrt 906
Larva 558
firebathero 550
Hyuk 500
Stork 476
ggaemo 416
Mini 352
BeSt 304
[ Show more ]
actioN 267
ZerO 218
Soulkey 209
hero 185
Killer 177
Rush 167
Hyun 90
Pusan 82
Dewaltoss 75
Zeus 57
Sharp 57
Barracks 55
Backho 54
Sea.KH 48
ToSsGirL 32
soO 27
sorry 22
HiyA 20
Shine 19
scan(afreeca) 18
Rock 16
IntoTheRainbow 15
Terrorterran 13
GoRush 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Noble 9
Sacsri 8
Dota 2
Gorgc4800
qojqva1982
syndereN480
monkeys_forever184
Counter-Strike
fl0m359
Heroes of the Storm
MindelVK1
Other Games
singsing2065
B2W.Neo1104
hiko838
Liquid`RaSZi758
FrodaN643
Beastyqt511
Lowko348
DeMusliM347
ceh9278
ArmadaUGS177
KnowMe176
Mew2King93
QueenE65
Trikslyr31
ZerO(Twitch)15
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1686
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 20
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3584
• TFBlade939
Other Games
• Shiphtur163
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
18m
Fjant vs Bly
Serral vs Shameless
OSC
6h 18m
The PiG Daily
7h 18m
Maru vs Rogue
TBD vs Classic
herO vs Solar
ByuN vs Solar
Replay Cast
8h 18m
CranKy Ducklings
18h 18m
RSL Revival
18h 18m
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
19h 18m
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
SC Evo League
21h 18m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
23h 18m
BSL
1d 3h
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 18h
RSL Revival
1d 18h
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
1d 19h
BSL
2 days
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-05
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
Escore Tournament S2: W6
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.