• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:10
CEST 23:10
KST 06:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies18Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)5Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !18Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0
StarCraft 2
General
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 (Spoiler) ASL21 Winner's Interview vespene.gg — BW replays in browser [ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies UA StarCraft: Mawin (T) vs hanniGan (P) Showmatch
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Organizations: Raisi…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1318 users

Searching for Cheese: The beginning (Image heavy)

Blogs > Captain
Post a Reply
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-04 02:19:01
May 03 2010 23:22 GMT
#1
I’ve been browsing teamliquid for awhile now, (perhaps two years or so) and I’ve decided that I’d like to give something back to its great community. After all, I’ve benefitted in countless ways from the amazing resource that is liquipedia as well as many insightful and hilarious strategy forum threads. As such, I’ve embarked on a project to create- and share with you- the perfect cheese.

It should be noted that I am somewhere around D+ in terms of actual skill, and that watching one of my traditional ZvP replays is akin to surveying a train wreck in slow motion. Nevertheless, I believe that my micro is sufficient on the small scale of cheese builds to execute them capably.

To begin the investigation, I have decided on the first candidate for the perfect cheese. It is fairly straightforward, and only works well on two player maps with thin cliffs around the bases. Destination is the perfect map for this build, especially since it’s quite easy to find players for Destination games. In terms of mechanics, the cheese is as follows:

8 rax
8 rax
8 supply
8 scv

Note that at seven supply, a SCV should be sortied from your base. The next SCV which spawns should also be sent to follow that first brave soul. The SCVs should make their way to the bottom of the opponent’s base’s cliff, at which point they should make two raxes as minerals allow. As the raxes complete, they should be lifted in to the opponent’s base. Once finished, the SCVs should be sent in to the opponent’s base for harass, and a bunker is frequently a wise investment. From here, the fight is straightforward. Assuming all has gone as planned, mass up four marines and go worker hunting. Kill initial fighting units as necessary, but the workers are top priority.
So it works on paper, perhaps. But does it work in theory? Let’s follow with a case study. The following games are drawn from a selection of some thirty-five which I played ranked on iCCup using the above build.

Game One: TvP Destination

Things go awry early this game, with me sending out both SCVs at eight supply due to a mishap involving an instant messaging client. On the way to the opponent’s base, they encounter a pylon scout.

[image loading]
I’m so bad at this game

This is the worst possible scenario. Having scouted my super-early SCV on its way to the left, (My path should not have taken me near the bridges; that was an error due to me being largely unfamiliar with the map) this probe will probably suspect that something is up. I can’t simply send the SCV to the planned cheese location, since protoss is now alert. I must resort to drastic measures. I use both SCVs and attempt to engage the probe, but I fail to attack it even once. It continues on its merry way to my base, and something occurs to me.
What if he didn’t even notice? I mean, at this point my account is around 1000, and he’s pretty close to the same. It’s possible that his eyes had strayed from the minimap; that he had not even noticed the SCVs yet. I decide to test my hypothesis.

[image loading]
I hope he doesn’t see me.

I notice no alteration in the probe’s movement, so I effect a similar maneuver with my other SCV, and hastily make with the barrackses. They complete without major incident, and his scout probe fails to locate them. Having made it over the hump, at least in my mind, I land my barracks and slam the finger of justice down on the M key.

[image loading]
That is one dark barracks.

I was tempted to GG right there. After such a failure of SCV travel, and after such an economically self-damaging cheese, I wasn’t even going to make it to the punch line. Yet, it occurred to me at that moment, that I was playing a D level protoss. I had a chance. All is not lost, I reasoned. My mineral surplus then was substantial, so I threw down a supply depot and a bunker. My protoss opponent had still failed to scout my raxes, so I persevered.
Here I encounted a stroke of pure dumb luck. My opponent, still clueless as to the presence of my raxes, had just finished his first zealot. (I discovered later that he went for a double gate pressure build, which SHOULD be a solid counter to mine.) He sent his first zealot to my base, but scouted my cheese as it reached the middle of the map. He then recalled it, but I already had marines out. It should have been all over for him, or so I thought. However, I once again shoot myself in the foot.

[image loading]
Marine: I’d really love to help you guys, but I might trip over this barracks.

The marine was trapped. After the second one finished I lifted the rax and corrected it, but the damage was done. What followed was some of the most intense marine micro I’ve ever had to pull off, but I was rewarded in the end with a disgusting, bloody 100 points.

So what do we draw from this? There were many failings on the parts of both players, but the fact that this build held up to an in-base double gate is promising. Perhaps if I had a more practiced, perfected version of this cheese, it would be invincible on Destination. More data is needed.

Game Two: TvT on Desti

This game went more or less according to plan, with one rather large exception.

[image loading]
What the placement

Dear god this placement is strange. Even though I still managed to win due to my opponent’s reluctance to pull SCVs off his mineral line, this has shown me a rather nasty problem with my placement. The moral of the story is that terrans like to put their buildings in strange places, and that my rax placement needs adjusting. In the future, I will build both raxes in the opponent’s third, moving this rightmost one over to the left. It should be noted that I played another game in which this curiously placed rax was overlord scouted, with disastrous results.

Game three: TvT Desti

Having now gotten to D+ with this build, I fearlessly started a TvT with my new and improved rax placement. As his SCV began jerking around in my base, I will admit I giggled to think that he would be checking the obvious proxy spot in his base and fortifying his ramp in preparation for some sort of proxy tech assault. Alas, reality was much crueler than my imaginings.

[image loading]
He finded me!

I lift off the first rax, only to discover that, to my horror, he has already scouted everything. Determined not to give up, I send the rax in, determined to build a bunker and try to out-micro my opponent. Placement and battle plans at this point begin to bloom in my mind as I plan out the best course of action and how many marines I need to make before assaulting. Suddenly,

[image loading]
excus me sir ur in th way

It dawns on me. The true weakness of this build has been exposed. Beyond any issues of mineral economy, unit composition, and intensity of unit control, this cheese has one fatal, undeniable flaw that will forever cripple its usefulness. Indeed, there is only one possible conclusion here.

[image loading]
Possibly the shortest ranked game of Starcraft I ever played.

With this, it is decided. The double rax Destination lift is not, and can never become the perfect cheese. This fatal weakness- that such a simple, elegant defense by the opponent can completely destroy the build’s entire advantage- it is too much of a failure.

Forty or so games of case study after conceiving of this build, it has been completely and soundly defeated by the honorable gentlemen of the D+ ladder. I will not give up, however. Somewhere, on some map, there MUST be a perfect cheese.

And I will find it.


EDIT: D+. I meant D+.

****
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
May 03 2010 23:26 GMT
#2
hahaha sexy read

PS: the perfect cheese is parmesan
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
pathy
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Taiwan619 Posts
May 03 2010 23:27 GMT
#3
hahaha. entertaining
Graphicscolosi suck
Graham
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada1259 Posts
May 03 2010 23:29 GMT
#4
Haha entertaining read for sure.
The pictures kept me hooked, haha.
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
May 04 2010 00:05 GMT
#5
haha i feel bad for the stuck marine lmao
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
May 04 2010 00:08 GMT
#6
That marine made me cradle my head in my hands for a few precious seconds >.<
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9109 Posts
May 04 2010 00:44 GMT
#7
haha nice read, gl with your pursuit of cheese!
YejinYejin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1053 Posts
May 04 2010 00:55 GMT
#8
For the second game, that barracks placement is not so weird. Terrans like doing that for a faster float scout. I do it sometimes, too.
안지호
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
May 04 2010 01:13 GMT
#9
Cheesy Terran scum >=O
TranslatorBaa!
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
May 04 2010 01:29 GMT
#10
On May 04 2010 09:55 DTK-m2 wrote:
For the second game, that barracks placement is not so weird. Terrans like doing that for a faster float scout. I do it sometimes, too.


*GASP*

That makes so much sense it's painful! Thanks for telling me ^_^
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
May 04 2010 01:41 GMT
#11
hahaha, entertaining and a fun read... Especially as a terran player that never cheeses :D
+ Show Spoiler +
DO A DOUBLE PROXY STARPORT PLZ PLZ, or DOUBLE PROXY STARGATE
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Chaos
Profile Joined July 2009
United States772 Posts
May 04 2010 15:44 GMT
#12
I'm glad you finally finished this and :D I still remember the first day you were using this and won however many games in a row.
FruitMarket
Captain
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States204 Posts
May 04 2010 16:03 GMT
#13
I think I won eight in a row. Then people started pulling probes, and things got tricky. xD
"I hope to set an example, you know, for children and stuff."
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Patches Events
19:30
Patches' Patch Clash #7
RotterdaM427
Liquipedia
BSL
19:00
RO8 - Day 4
DragOn vs Dewalt
TerrOr vs OyAji
ZZZero.O324
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 427
JuggernautJason107
ProTech98
EmSc Tv 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 26122
ZZZero.O 324
Dewaltoss 71
Zeus 63
NaDa 14
League of Legends
JimRising 478
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu397
Other Games
summit1g7871
gofns6551
tarik_tv6358
FrodaN4778
Grubby3855
Liquid`RaSZi2680
shahzam423
KnowMe345
QueenE85
kaitlyn34
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1038
BasetradeTV82
StarCraft 2
angryscii 32
EmSc Tv 25
EmSc2Tv 25
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 53
• Reevou 9
• musti20045 5
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1834
Other Games
• imaqtpie1069
• WagamamaTV409
• Shiphtur238
• tFFMrPink 15
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 50m
Universe Titan Cup
13h 50m
Rogue vs Percival
Wardi Open
14h 50m
Monday Night Weeklies
18h 50m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 13h
GSL
2 days
herO vs Classic
Cure vs Clem
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL
3 days
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Spring Champion…
3 days
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
Replay Cast
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
TBD vs SHIN
TBD vs Rogue
IPSL
5 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W8
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
YSL S3
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

CSCL: Masked Kings S4
Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.