Hi guys. I'm a Korean American who pretty much after graduating from NYU with a degree in Hotel and Casino management couldn't find a good job that suited me in America. As a fluent speaker of both languages I went to Korea in search of work and got a job and moved up through the ranks and now work as a VIP host at a Korean casino (would rather not say which one). I've always been a huge fan of starcraft but only did my love get re-invigorated since SC2 came out.
Throughout the years I've dealt with many clients a couple of which basically made me their personal assistant (by demand of my job). Doing such work has resulted in some korean/japanese ballers taking me all over Seoul to all the sorts of places. I've been back here for 11 years and I've pretty much seen it all. I am here now to tell you everything there is to know about the side of Korea that men love (but only the rich can afford).
This might get a bit vulgar at points, so make sure your wives aren't in the room and cover your children's eyes!
Well theres three basic categories Night Clubs/Room Salons/Anma. Those are what I'll talk about.
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Night/booking clubs:
First off are night clubs. They are designed to cater to the man. You go with a group of guys and get your own private room. The waiter provides you with side dishes usually involving some sort of meat or fruit platters, lots of whiskey, and lots of beer. The bigger the room generally the more alcohol you are forced to buy. The basic idea of the club is speed dating. Music is generally a mix of western hip-hop and korean songs and maybe a little trance or techno here and there. Girls start coming in at 8 and most guys get there between 9-11 unless it's the later crowd then it's open till 7 AM. At the best clubs you have to get there by 11 or have a really good waiter to get a room, and if you don't then you have to wait till around 3 AM to get a room.
Girls all have tables surrounding the dance floor and then surrounding that are the rooms where you would want to be. No prostitutes in these kinds of clubs, all normal girls ranging from church going virgins to skanky every night trying to 1-night-stand sluts. They open up at around 9, but girls start getting in around 8 PM. The clubs let only good looking girls in. The only chance an ugly girl would have of getting in is if she comes with a group of hot girls, or if shes paying for her own room, which usually only guys get unless girls are throwing a birthday party or something.
Some of my japanese clients really love these places as not only are they big gamblers but they love Korean women, and what better of a place to hit on girls and practice their Korean language skills in the process! Kinds of girls you'll meet in night clubs: Lots of girls claiming to be studying to be a 'dancer' or an 'actress.' Lots of flight attendants, lots of girls in school, lots of girls working as bartenders, lots of room salons girls. We'll get to what a room salon girl is later. Basically these clubs are anything goes.
Your waiter will constantly usher in girls to you and your buddies all night. If he's doing a good job he'll be peeping in through the door window or just opening it to check if there is none. No more than 5 minutes should ever pass with a guy not having a girl next to them. But remember, these are normal girls! The whole premise of the club is that the girls go there knowing waiters will pick them off from the dance floor, leaving the bathroom, or their table and 'drag' them to a new guy's room. It's funny how the korean girls always act like 'no no no' as the waiter brings them in but it's all an act. They know what they are there for. But if they don't like what they see in you or feel from the first impression they will leave. Sometimes they are modest and are too shy to directly leave so they wait till you try and get their number then leave, never to return your calls. Sometimes they are only semi-modest and give you a chance and drink a couple shots with you then leave. Sometimes they sit down look at you and leave without saying anything. Mentally prepare yourself to be rejected! But it's all in good fun, and there are girls in the club for every guy, patience and confidence is key.
For those of you that aren't Korean and don't speak Korean you can have fun too! I'd estimate like 20% of the girls going to night clubs nowadays speak english pretty well, and 50% more than that have somewhat enough of an understanding to have fun. It's all body language anyways. I've gone with some Canadian clients who didn't speak a word of Korean and they had a blast. Theres karaoke machines in every room too.
Few things to remember: Price range is 400$-2000$ depending if its weekday or weekend which is more expensive, size of room and number of guys attending and how much you drink all also factor in as well to the price. You're going to need to know a waiter to get in but if you don't you definitely can show up with a crew of guys looking sharp and they will respect/trust you enough to introduce you to one. If you guys are all non-koreans I'd definitely suggest finding a korean friend to go with though so everything is smooth. Don't let a waiter **** with you. Negotiate the bill from the beginning. You can bargain off 20% atleast of what they ask just by being bold and sticking to your guns. I once went with a Korean client who had obviously been to night clubs many times. The waiter said the price would be 900. Then my client said 500. Then the waiter said 'okay 700,' then my client was like '500 or I walk out the door and find a new waiter you should be happy to have my business since I come so often.' Waiter instantly bowed and said 'Ok fine' in Korean and walked out the door to get us girls and alcohol. Another thing to remember: do not go to the dance floor with a girl unless you check it out first. These clubs are all about the talking and drinking not the dancing. Usually it's only girls on the dancefloor and it's not that packed so unless you are really confident and have some good moves don't even attempt it because it will end up awkward.
I've seen all sorts of things at these places. Guys using the couches in the rooms to barricade the door shut and have sex with a girl, guys taking girls into the room bathroom and ****ing them, yeah most good rooms have their own private bathrooms which is nice. I've seen two booking girls battling over one guy and it turns into a grubby cat fight. I've seen a girl throw a bucket of ice at a guys face because he cursed at her. I've seen tons of funny and sick stuff in these clubs, but I'd say in general they are pretty tame compared to clubs in NYC and such. No fighting ever really happens, no drugs, and not too much raunchiness. Though, even the girls that appear shy and humble are putting up a disguise; they are all there to meet guys so always be confident. Motels are literally everywhere and most night clubs are connected to hotels too. All the night clubs also have secret entrances so if you end up going there and someone gets denied because they are underage your waiter always has the capability to sneak them in the back.
I love these places and would go more if I could afford it, so every chance I get to go with my clients is more like a night of play and not work. What you drink is only beer/whiskey though I've heard they are allowing customers to order all sorts of alcohols these days. Drink as slow as possible. It's all about survival. Club generally gets really poppin around 2 AM when all the girls are tipsy but you always need to be able to have a fun intelligent conversation so stay semi-sober! Also. always instantly offer girls drinks after you've broken the introduction etc. barriers and shes comfortable. They will usually not drink unless you offer them strongly by holding them an empty shotglass as you ask them, making it not a question but more like a 'hear take this.' Koreans love to drink and respect good drinkers. If you're not Korean learn some korean words/phrases before going...it will help you a lot. Another thing you must remember. If you're with a girl and she says she has to go play with her friends or go to the bathroom always get her digits! Even IF she intends on coming back it's a ravenous jungle of waiters out there in the night club ready to pull them into new room after room. She might not even be able to get back if she wants to, and maybe she'll forget where your room is. Time and time again I've seen guys too proud to get the number because they 'know shes coming back.' Guess what buddy shes not!
BOSS night club at An-Sae-Byungwon-Sa-guh-ri and Club I night club at the Riviera Hotel in chungdamdong are the two best night clubs. CHeck them out! Thats all I could think of off the top of my head for now, post any questions and I'll be of help!
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Room Salons:
Room salons are EVERYWHERE with all sorts of different levels and classifications. The basic idea of a room salon is you get a room to drink with your buddies and drink with professional girls. Now, there are all sorts of different kinds and each different kind has all sorts of different girls. The girls will drink and sing and play with you all night, and some will go home for you for a price.
This is what it's like: You get in the room salon with your clients and/or friends and your madam comes in the room. Your alcohol has already been pre-placed in the room. Almost always whiskey and then beers upon request. The madam is in charge of the bill and the girls. Shes the only one you deal with at all. Only ballers are allowed in these places so she won't discuss pricing until the end, and it is expensive. She comes in says hello and introduces herself to any newcomers. She'll make some dirty jokes and ask you stuff like what kind of girl do you want, and do you want girls that are available for "2-cha" which is korean for "2nd car" which translates to "pay extra to take the girl home or to a motel after and **** her." Once she's got the gist of things and has had a shot of whiskey with everyone she starts bringing in girls. She'll bring in 1-6 girls at a time and line them up at the front of the room and have each girl introduce themselves, depending on availability. Lots of rich business men go to these places and pick the best girls so if you get to these places late it can be frustrated. Get there by 9 PM and you're good to go.
These girls in the lineup will be the most beautiful korean women you've ever seen in your life, though most have had plastic surgery. But trust me, you won't care. Age range 20-32. At the good places they are far far more attractive than any korean pop star girls you see on TV. As soon as you select the one you want she comes and sits next to you, often interlocking arms or hands, and just cuddling up to you in general. She is now your 'partner.' It is her job to constantly refill your glass with alcohol, to get you whatever you want, to talk about whatever you want, to talk dirty, to make you feel like a king. To a first-timer these places can be incredibly intimidating because you'll be thinking "Wow shes way too hot for me." or "She's just acting like she likes me because shes getting paid so much for this." Both of those thoughts will usually be 100% true, but you just gotta enjoy the moment. Let loose and don't be awkward and enjoy. If in the lineup you can't choose a girl you can tell the madam 'nope' and she'll continuously bring more lineups of girls depending on availability for you to choose from. You can get multiple girls for more $ etc.
There are different types of places though. The first I'll describe is called '10-pro' supposedly meaning top 10% of room salon girls. These best of the best places with the hottest girls have girls on rotation. So if you pick a girl she actually has 2-4 rooms shes attending to so she comes in, stays for 15 mins, then leaves for 30 mins before coming back as shes rotating around from room to room. Korean businessmen take their clients to these places to please them while trying to make a deal. They aren't really ideal for non-korean speaking guys because a. the girls don't speak english often b. very expensive c. white guys almost have no shot unless they speak the language perfectly d. u can't even pay to **** the girls at these kinds of places. These girls are pulling in 10-30k a month. While they don't ****, they are highly skilled at making the man that chose them for that night happy. They dress super sexy and will often reveal more, they will get up and straddle u and pass a cherry from their mouth to yours in a kiss, they will give you massages, they will do sexy dances, they will sit in your lap, whatever you want. If you can get over the whole 'this isn't real because i'm paying for it' thing, then these places are alot of fun. Price range for these places with avg. 4 guys attending: 4k minimum unless you're a regular then you can get discounts.
Next is 'jum-o' or '.5' These are room salons just like the '10-pro' except the quality of girls is slightly lower. But don't get me wrong, they are still out of this world beautiful. At these places you get a mix of things. Some girls can be ****ed for $, some can't, and some only agree to do it after meeting you and figuring out if they like you enough to let you pay to **** them. I know lol. These places you'll really have to rely on your madam early on to make sure your needs are catered to. They often times bring in a lineup of 'non-****able' then a lineup of '****able' for you to choose from. But in these places, if you are willing to throw around money, they are all ****able for the right price. The price for taking girls home from these kinds of places is 400-600,000 won which is avg 500$, but sometimes theres a 50% or 100% tax for non-asians. Yup they fear the big white penis or the kinky **** that they imagine whites might do like slap them or something. Avg price range here (not including ****ing-fees) 1.5-3k for 4 guys.
Next level I forget if theres even a name. Theres lots of places that are like 'jum-o's except all the girls are 100% ****able and the place is attached to a hotel. Same setup except you pay a set price to drink for 2 hours. Girls will often do sexy lingere shows as these places are more overtly sexual but it's mostly still just drinking and talking. You can molest them at will though as long as you aren't rough or go too far. After the 2 hours is up your waiter asks you if you want 2 more hours or to go to '2-cha' or 'go **** the girls upstairs' Unlike 'jum-o' the girl will instantly shower and leave after ****ing, whereas at the other style of room salon if u pay for a girl she might stay for a while or maybe the whole night if she likes you. One of my japanese clients in this kinda place selected THE WHOLE lineup then took them all for some 5v1 orgy. Price range ~1.5k total for 4 guys drinking 2 hrs, then 250-500 more each if you want to ****.
They also have even dirtier places. Where upon choosing your girls you talk nicely for 5-10 mins then all the girls get up and turn up the music and do a little 'show' while getting naked down to only their panties. They are like the place I just told you about except you can't **** them but at the end of the two hours they turn on the music loud, turn off the lights, get naked, lay everyone on their back, and simultaneously jerk everyone off. Price range 1.5-2k total for 4 guys all things included.
Thats room salons for you guys. They are literally EVERYWHERE. New ones close and/or pop up all the time. It's part of the business because clients get bored of same places and same girls so the places move to new venues and juggle girls around. Millions of girls in Seoul so theres always fresh meat for the rich Korean business men to drool over. The best ones are in the Apgu-jeong or Sam-sung areas. Rich area = hot girls. Oh and btw these places usually close at 3 or 4ish so often times after work these girls head to the night clubs for more action.
For me they have been pretty hit or miss. Sometimes the girls are boring and it's a bland night. Sometimes everyones having the best fun, non stop drinking games, dirty jokes, or everyone teaming up and picking on 1 of the girls if shes really arrogant and teasing her to death. It's still pretty hard for me to have true fun when I know the girl is merely acting nice and into me because it's her job but thats just me. But sometimes my clients pay for me to go to '2-cha' and it would be unprofessional to refuse. Those are usually the best nights!
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Anma:
These are the massage parlors of Seoul. Anma means massage in Korean but if you see it on a building it's synonomous with 'whorehouse.'
You walk in and pay 180-220,00 won around 200$. You then get lead by someone working there into a locker room. You put your belongings and clothes in the locker and put on your robe. You are then led to another room. A hot girl then comes in and offers you a variety of drinks from the fridge in the room. The room is equipped with two halves, one half has a bed and the other half has a shower and bubble bath area. You have a little small talk with the girl and then it begins. She tells you to get naked and she undresses as you do as well. Sometimes she'll be in theme like dressed up like a flight attendant or something, but usually just a sexy skirt and a shirt that shows boobs. She then washes you in the shower while your both naked. She'll try to get your dick riled up a bit while soaping you. After showering then she'll make you lie face down on the padded washable bed in the shower area. She'll gell you up and then slide her naked body all over yours using every part of her body. She'll kiss your neck and start grabbing your balls. Then she flips you up and does the same process and gets you really horny. Then she'll start giving you a blow job (sometimes putting a condom on you first, sometimes not). The whole showering / gell shower nude massage takes about 20-30 minutes and when she knows you're ready then she'll stand you up, rinse you off, then give you some towels and tell you go to lie down on the real bed. Then she'll completely wash herself and dry herself. Then she'll come to you on the bed and do a bunch more erotic stuff before eventually condom'ing you up and ****ing you. Afterwards she washes and showers you again, dries you off, and makes you get dressed. She'll offer you some more tea or something and a cigarette, and most likely smoke one herself too. The whole process lasts 1 hour max and then a worker comes knocking on the door and you get led out to your locker. From that point on you can go pay and do it again with a new girl, or you can order some food as they have nice kitchens, or you can go sleep for free in a small room with a TV and a floor pad, or you can get a real massage from a blind professional. Then you leave feeling fresh and clean.
They have all sorts of variations of these places as well. Sometimes you get 3 girls, sometimes you get 2 bonus girls but only for the sex part. Sometimes you get a blowjob in a different room from one girl then you get led to your main girl at the 'cum twice' places. Also if you show up between 3-8 AM at a good place odds are they are full and you have to wait for a girl in one of the sleeping rooms. If you pass out you can have your service whenever you want, and if you decide you don't want it anymore they will give you a free pass for next time.
Some of these places are really high tech and organized with really hot girls. The girls are well trained to use condoms and are often STD tested. Not that that makes it safe but it's probably the cleanest form of prostitution in the world if thats saying anything. There are of course raunchy places. I'd say every block in Seoul has an Anma on it on average and often times they are clustered together. Prostitution is illegal in Seoul but of course the mafia and corrupt cops keep these places in business. Plus, having such places for easy release for men probably stops a lot of crime. If you're not Korean you can definitely get in most of these places, but some might reject you. If you go with a korean you should be fine. Though there are some places that allow Koreans only because they are so popular anyways that you have to reserve ahead of time to even go there.
I'm not really a fan of whoring...but my job forces me to do vulgar things sometimes. First time going I was really shy but I got used to it.
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Extras:
There are cheap red light districts where you can walk by and see girls in windows then go in and insta-**** them for like 50$ or something but they are really dirty and in scummy areas.
There are 'sexy bars' all over seoul which are just normal bars except the girls working there wear bikinis or sexy dresses and interact with customers alot.
Most girls that work at Anmas work there not because they were forced, but because they got massive credit card debt or took loans from the wrong gangsters and are basically forced to work there until their debt is paid off. Those Anma girls make like 10k a month. Same is true about the room salon girls for getting into it, but usually after their debt is paid they get so addicted to the easy money glamour lifestyle that stay one.
Almost all madams were ex-working girls but not all.
Night club waiters have varying degrees of 'power' so you need to find a good one for best room selection.
Anything is possible. Room salon girls that are not for sale can be charmed just like any normal girl.
Business men that go to room salons often do stuff like buy the girl a 100k car, or pay off her entire debt in return for the girl being his 'girlfriend.'
Alot of the actresses that aren't so famous are for sale on a high-end prostitution black market among korean CEO's. 10k **** yo!
Normal karaoke drinking places all have call girl services that can bring in mobile line-ups of girls for you to choose to drink with and **** just like a 'jum-o.' Though they aren't as hot but the places are cheaper.
There are of course normal hip-hop and trance clubs all over seoul I just left them out...room salon girls love to frequent those on the weekends when they aren't working. Room salons are weekday things because businessmen take their company members or clients after work.
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Okay thats all I can think of for now. I hope you guys enjoyed. And for your information even though I've experienced all this I'm not some big whoring freak. I have a girlfriend which I love and loves me and part of loving her means not ever letting her find out about what my job forces me to do sometimes. Good thing she doesn't read forums nor does she speak english hehe
And @DanceWithDevil: Anything really, what GTR suggested is fine. I am Korean American too but I haven't lived there since I was ~2-3 so I don't really know much about Korean culture.
On April 26 2010 14:59 Amnesia wrote: Great read 5/5.
I hope you post more interesting stuff about Korea!
At the first two replies - how did you guys read so fast?!
Thanks a lot man I appreciate it. What would you like to hear about Korea next? Ａｎｙ ｉｄｅａｓ？
I'd like to here your perspective on the underground gambling industry in Korea, considering you do 'work' there?
I mean there's Rek's take as a customer but I want to hear the perspective of a back-guy.
I do know about the underground gambling culture of Korea but it's simply riddled with cheats and scams. Not only that but it's my job to keep my clients happy and coming back to the legal casino I work at and do high stakes baccarat or blackjack type gambling. I work for the house
I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
On April 26 2010 15:16 lilsusie wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
I believe that people reading it understand that this is only the dirty part of Korea. I could make a beautiful post about my Korean culture and all our beautiful tourist spots and foods. Maybe I'll do that next! Why did I decide to post it? Well I see blogs everywhere about people going to Korea so they may as well understand what they might possibly want to try out.
On April 26 2010 15:19 krndandaman wrote: i was very surprised on how easily money is thrown around.... how do they have so much customers when it costs that much!?!?
are there really that many rich people in korea? or are they mostly repeat customers?
wow... 10-30k a month, that's like the pay of a damn lawyer lol
Yes customers are almost always regulars. With millions of people in Seoul of course there are so many rich people. Also the bill often times goes on the company card.
What kind of people are these girls anyways? Some sorry sad tale of a poor girl trying to make it out alive, sex addicts, superficial materialistic whores, slavery, runaways etc..
I mean prostitution is prominent all over Asia, but I'm curious about, being the richest area in the country, why do these girls end up doing this, especially with the high educational and literacy rates in the country.
On April 26 2010 15:16 lilsusie wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
I believe that people reading it understand that this is only the dirty part of Korea. I could make a beautiful post about my Korean culture and all our beautiful tourist spots and foods. Maybe I'll do that next! Why did I decide to post it? Well I see blogs everywhere about people going to Korea so they may as well understand what they might possibly want to try out.
I believe in the freedom of information.
Yes, freedom of information, but you also realize that TL isn't the place for people to say "OMG I'm going to Korea, I'm totally gonna blow 5k dollars on a night out with beautiful women!" (Well, maybe a few guys can but most are high school/college students who are poor) And those who CAN spend that much... already have. And blogged about it.
Don't assume on the internet that people will take this as "only the dirty part" of Korea. It's a part of Korea that most Koreans are not proud of, thus not really something that you need to publicly put into light. =/ Those are my 2 cents.
On April 26 2010 15:26 druj wrote: What kind of people are these girls anyways? Some sorry sad tale of a poor girl trying to make it out alive, sex addicts, superficial materialistic whores, slavery, runaways etc..
I mean prostitution is prominent all over Asia, but I'm curious about, being the richest area in the country, why do these girls end up doing this, especially with the high educational and literacy rates in the country.
Most of them start off as normal girls. College students. Poor families. Rich girls wanna get back at daddy. Etc. The thing is, this culture is sooooooooooo dependent on aesthetics that, simply put, if you're pretty, you'll get paid. A part time job at a store/fast food joint will pay between 2.50 to 4 bucks an hour. $2.50 an hour for a whole day or to fuck some guy for a few minutes for a TON more... most girls will take the latter route. And like OP said, they start to like the money, thus they stay in the business.
On April 26 2010 15:16 lilsusie wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
Oh come on, these blogs are the type that almost every male on this forum wait for. There is something about descriptions of the unattainable pleasures which only the extremely wealthy or extremely lucky can partake in that feed our imaginations. Insider stuff like this in interesting and it's always fun to get a description of a part of Korea or any foreign country for that matter that isn't so publicly spoken about.
On April 26 2010 15:16 lilsusie wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
I believe that people reading it understand that this is only the dirty part of Korea. I could make a beautiful post about my Korean culture and all our beautiful tourist spots and foods. Maybe I'll do that next! Why did I decide to post it? Well I see blogs everywhere about people going to Korea so they may as well understand what they might possibly want to try out.
I believe in the freedom of information.
Yes, freedom of information, but you also realize that TL isn't the place for people to say "OMG I'm going to Korea, I'm totally gonna blow 5k dollars on a night out with beautiful women!" (Well, maybe a few guys can but most are high school/college students who are poor) And those who CAN spend that much... already have. And blogged about it.
Don't assume on the internet that people will take this as "only the dirty part" of Korea. It's a part of Korea that most Koreans are not proud of, thus not really something that you need to publicly put into light. =/ Those are my 2 cents.
If it's something that most Korean's aren't proud of why does the government do nothing to stop any of it? Why do almost all korean males partake in it in one way or another? If you were unaware in many areas they have police guarding the perimeter of the red light districts! It's just the way it is and me sharing this information with a gaming website isn't going to do anything other than inform.
If anything, the korean way of disliking something but never having the balls to bring it out in the open is exactly why change for the better doesn't happen.
Perhaps I'll run for president of Korea! O wait I'm a USA citizen damn.
I'll admit, this was a rather interesting blog we never really see everyday.... Whether it was for the benefit for many TLers here, filling them with knowledge they may or may not want, and allowing to see a whole new aspect some many never really came across, I do feel people do have the right to know about anything and everything that goes around in this world. Be it a dark side of the story or the much so covered up light side, the conclusion only lies to one's self of judgement.
So in my opinion, although I don't feel the need to go to these places when I come to Korea, I just learned something completely new that I have little to absolutely no clue about. Thus, I'm satisfied for that regard. Kudos to you OP! 5/5!
*Edit* Basically I agree with the OP more here with freedom of information in regards to any upcoming debates to come.
On April 26 2010 15:35 Luddite wrote: what are the 미인 글럽s and 풀서비스 rooms? Are those room salons? I see them all over the place and was never sure exactly what they were.
Yes sometimes they are very cheap crappy room salons with ugly girls. Sometimes they are places where you get a bottle of whiskey and 1on1 talk/drink with a girl then go **** when you both want. With things like that in korea it's not like theres some set norm, each place often has it's own way of operation. But my suggestion would be to never go into any of those places, they are very seedy. The good room salons and such will always have names like "Tree" or "Apple" or "Luxury" or something like that.
I too have no intent on ever going to these places if I visited Korea, but I do not see anything wrong with this blog. There's dirty things that go on everywhere in the world and you can find them if you know where to look/ask. He has the right to blog about this, because some people are genuinely interested in these things (for good or for bad) and really it does not do anything to interfere with the other TLers
I think most people reading this realize that this is not everyday Korea. The post makes it pretty clear that most normal people can't afford this kind of lifestyle, and that it really only caters to a certain type of rich person. Prostitution and escorts appear almost everywhere and I would argue that it doesn't present Korea in a bad light, especially compared to how it works in some other countries. And I doubt anyone is going to decide to go to Korea based on a post like this - even if we could afford it, and very few of us can, this is a Starcraft website and I think our primary interest in Korea is always going to be that.
On April 26 2010 15:16 lilsusie wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
I believe that people reading it understand that this is only the dirty part of Korea. I could make a beautiful post about my Korean culture and all our beautiful tourist spots and foods. Maybe I'll do that next! Why did I decide to post it? Well I see blogs everywhere about people going to Korea so they may as well understand what they might possibly want to try out.
I believe in the freedom of information.
Yes, freedom of information, but you also realize that TL isn't the place for people to say "OMG I'm going to Korea, I'm totally gonna blow 5k dollars on a night out with beautiful women!" (Well, maybe a few guys can but most are high school/college students who are poor) And those who CAN spend that much... already have. And blogged about it.
Don't assume on the internet that people will take this as "only the dirty part" of Korea. It's a part of Korea that most Koreans are not proud of, thus not really something that you need to publicly put into light. =/ Those are my 2 cents.
If it's something that most Korean's aren't proud of why does the government do nothing to stop any of it? Why do almost all korean males partake in it in one way or another? If you were unaware in many areas they have police guarding the perimeter of the red light districts! It's just the way it is and me sharing this information with a gaming website isn't going to do anything other than inform.
If anything, the korean way of disliking something but never having the balls to bring it out in the open is exactly why change for the better doesn't happen.
Perhaps I'll run for president of Korea! O wait I'm a USA citizen damn.
I was just expressing my opinion too. I live in this country and trust me, I know how corrupt things are. It's terrible. But that's for the nation to figure out. I don't know why you felt compelled to inform about your country's dirty laundry, that's all. I know many men partake. I know that the rich in Korea feel that the whole nation is their playground and they can do whatever they want. But that doesn't necessarily make it right. Meh. I guess it just seemed weird that some random guy who has 10 posts decided to make a post making Korea sound like some woman whore haven. *shrug*
On April 26 2010 15:41 starfries wrote: I think most people reading this realize that this is not everyday Korea. The post makes it pretty clear that most normal people can't afford this kind of lifestyle, and that it really only caters to a certain type of rich person. Prostitution and escorts appear almost everywhere and I would argue that it doesn't present Korea in a bad light, especially compared to how it works in some other countries. And I doubt anyone is going to decide to go to Korea based on a post like this - even if we could afford it, and very few of us can, this is a Starcraft website and I think our primary interest in Korea is always going to be that.
I sure as hell hope so that ppl know this isn't everyday Korea. You'd be surprised at how many TLers think Korea = starcraft left and right with hot women everywhere you turn. It's not.
well its informative and fun to know. All countries have something dirty going on and he just wanted to tell us it in more detail. IMO not everyone is going to be able to come around to korea and enjoy/explore what he has posted. But i do understand why youre kinda taken aback by this. One being the pride and two being thats hes a low poster =p
On April 26 2010 15:16 lilsusie wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
I believe that people reading it understand that this is only the dirty part of Korea. I could make a beautiful post about my Korean culture and all our beautiful tourist spots and foods. Maybe I'll do that next! Why did I decide to post it? Well I see blogs everywhere about people going to Korea so they may as well understand what they might possibly want to try out.
I believe in the freedom of information.
Yes, freedom of information, but you also realize that TL isn't the place for people to say "OMG I'm going to Korea, I'm totally gonna blow 5k dollars on a night out with beautiful women!" (Well, maybe a few guys can but most are high school/college students who are poor) And those who CAN spend that much... already have. And blogged about it.
Don't assume on the internet that people will take this as "only the dirty part" of Korea. It's a part of Korea that most Koreans are not proud of, thus not really something that you need to publicly put into light. =/ Those are my 2 cents.
If it's something that most Korean's aren't proud of why does the government do nothing to stop any of it? Why do almost all korean males partake in it in one way or another? If you were unaware in many areas they have police guarding the perimeter of the red light districts! It's just the way it is and me sharing this information with a gaming website isn't going to do anything other than inform.
If anything, the korean way of disliking something but never having the balls to bring it out in the open is exactly why change for the better doesn't happen.
Perhaps I'll run for president of Korea! O wait I'm a USA citizen damn.
I was just expressing my opinion too. I live in this country and trust me, I know how corrupt things are. It's terrible. But that's for the nation to figure out. I don't know why you felt compelled to inform about your country's dirty laundry, that's all. I know many men partake. I know that the rich in Korea feel that the whole nation is their playground and they can do whatever they want. But that doesn't necessarily make it right. Meh. I guess it just seemed weird that some random guy who has 10 posts decided to make a post making Korea sound like some woman whore haven. *shrug*
On April 26 2010 15:41 starfries wrote: I think most people reading this realize that this is not everyday Korea. The post makes it pretty clear that most normal people can't afford this kind of lifestyle, and that it really only caters to a certain type of rich person. Prostitution and escorts appear almost everywhere and I would argue that it doesn't present Korea in a bad light, especially compared to how it works in some other countries. And I doubt anyone is going to decide to go to Korea based on a post like this - even if we could afford it, and very few of us can, this is a Starcraft website and I think our primary interest in Korea is always going to be that.
I sure as hell hope so that ppl know this isn't everyday Korea. You'd be surprised at how many TLers think Korea = starcraft left and right with hot women everywhere you turn. It's not.
Yeah I should have added in that they have Anmas for girls (way more expensive) and about Host Bars which are female versions of room salons. Not only women for sale in Korea my friends! Viagra FTW hehe
On April 26 2010 15:46 lilsusie wrote: They have gay host bars too, and gay call boys. Like I said, you can buy ANYTHING in Koreathe world. (if you have the money that is)
On April 26 2010 15:52 Ack1027 wrote: So....you love your girlfriend but you fuck ee cha girls cuz it would be unprofessional to refuse?
Yeah, I do. If I refuse my clients will be very put off by it. Taking a moral high-ground around them will make them lose trust in me. If they lose trust in me they will stop betting hundreds of thousands of dollars per day at the casino I work at. I could lie to them and let them pay for me then not go through with it, but they'd probably find out as they are closer with the girls than I. Not only that of course. I admit I'm not perfect, and though I have cheated on my GF, the majority of all this experience was before we met. I've been in this biz a long time.
On April 26 2010 15:16 lilsusie wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
I believe that people reading it understand that this is only the dirty part of Korea. I could make a beautiful post about my Korean culture and all our beautiful tourist spots and foods. Maybe I'll do that next! Why did I decide to post it? Well I see blogs everywhere about people going to Korea so they may as well understand what they might possibly want to try out.
I believe in the freedom of information.
Yes, freedom of information, but you also realize that TL isn't the place for people to say "OMG I'm going to Korea, I'm totally gonna blow 5k dollars on a night out with beautiful women!" (Well, maybe a few guys can but most are high school/college students who are poor) And those who CAN spend that much... already have. And blogged about it.
Don't assume on the internet that people will take this as "only the dirty part" of Korea. It's a part of Korea that most Koreans are not proud of, thus not really something that you need to publicly put into light. =/ Those are my 2 cents.
On April 26 2010 15:26 druj wrote: What kind of people are these girls anyways? Some sorry sad tale of a poor girl trying to make it out alive, sex addicts, superficial materialistic whores, slavery, runaways etc..
I mean prostitution is prominent all over Asia, but I'm curious about, being the richest area in the country, why do these girls end up doing this, especially with the high educational and literacy rates in the country.
Most of them start off as normal girls. College students. Poor families. Rich girls wanna get back at daddy. Etc. The thing is, this culture is sooooooooooo dependent on aesthetics that, simply put, if you're pretty, you'll get paid. A part time job at a store/fast food joint will pay between 2.50 to 4 bucks an hour. $2.50 an hour for a whole day or to fuck some guy for a few minutes for a TON more... most girls will take the latter route. And like OP said, they start to like the money, thus they stay in the business.
Honestly, I think there is somewhat a bias on TL where we are more exposed to the darker side of Korea (probably because of all of Rekrul's posts ).
For the most part, I think most people hold South Korea in a positive light due to the pop culture, and for us, the haven of progaming. I think it's good to be disillusioned that Korea isn't the utopia for all popular culture and gaming so we all don't end up like rabid Anime or Kpop nerds who think "OMG JAPAN/KOREA IS DA BEST PLACE EVAR I WISH I WAS JAPANESE/KOREAN!"
Of course on the other end of the spectrum, so much negative light on Korea could cause another shitstorm like with what happened when Rek posted about Ret and his mishaps in Korea. Everyone just jumped to conclusions that all Koreans had this negative attitude, but we all have to consider both the positive and negative lights with a good dose of common sense to realize that both exist for the country, and it isn't ever a polarized culture of 'good' and 'bad'.
On April 26 2010 15:52 Ack1027 wrote: So....you love your girlfriend but you fuck ee cha girls cuz it would be unprofessional to refuse?
In Korean culture, refusing your host is a VERY big nono. It's borderline insulting. And people who can afford to go to those places are not people you want to be insulting. Especially in a corporate/business scenario.
Wow, I'm going to Korea when I have money! Easy, no hassle, E. Asian hookers with the benefits of plastic surgery and first world hygiene. What's not to love?!
On April 26 2010 14:48 GTR wrote: damn sounds like a person rek would love to be friends with.
Sounds like Rek himself.
Hey, can one say that Seoul has it better than Amsterdam in this department? It sure seems so from reading this.
Btw, question to the OP: Do you think most decent-looking girls in Seoul have been involved with this at least at some point?
No way. There are many many beautiful women in Seoul functioning all over in all sorts of jobs, a large % of the time being bartenders. The top tier room salon girls probably represent a decent % of the insanely beautiful female population in korea, but certainly not close to 50%.
All I gotta say is that not even going to any of the aforementioned places, it's still completely possible to have an insane night here for free.
After maybe 2 AM, Hongdae turns into one of the most chaotic places I've ever seen. Girls wearing skirts in 15-degree weather aren't looking to go home to their own houses...
As extreme as Korea is about Starcraft, just imagine that in every other light--including the opposite extreme. Remember? Korea has the highest saturation of Christians on Earth. Blog posts just aren't as exciting about that.
That goes for good people having a nice time as well. I've met a lot of awesome people here, and a surprising amount of people who don't even drink a drop. Korea gets glorified as the motherland of all things insane on TL, but it's really not. Go live in New York or LA, you can find crazy things even more easily.
On April 26 2010 16:44 krndandaman wrote: Question: How long did it take you to move up the ranks from when you first arrived in korea until where you are now?
Well I actually got to the position I am now due to my fun out-going trash talking type personality. I originally was working as a floor supervisor in the high stakes area but It didn't take me long working with my casino until they realized I might be really good at this. My salary doesn't really reflect the level that I'm working on now, but I think they know I get so much free awesome stuff from my job that they don't care. So hard to truly move up in Korean companies. I hope to get into a top managerial position someday.
On April 26 2010 16:47 Quesadilla wrote: All I gotta say is that not even going to any of the aforementioned places, it's still completely possible to have an insane night here for free.
After maybe 2 AM, Hongdae turns into one of the most chaotic places I've ever seen. Girls wearing skirts in 15-degree weather aren't looking to go home to their own houses...
As extreme as Korea is about Starcraft, just imagine that in every other light--including the opposite extreme. Remember? Korea has the highest saturation of Christians on Earth. Blog posts just aren't as exciting about that.
That goes for good people having a nice time as well. I've met a lot of awesome people here, and a surprising amount of people who don't even drink a drop. Korea gets glorified as the motherland of all things insane on TL, but it's really not. Go live in New York or LA, you can find crazy things even more easily.
:C -1 point for korea
even if these places are the most hygienic concerning STI's, i still wouldn't go rubber-less, even with the expensive pricey girls (who i'd never shell out the cash for anyway .) plugging professional whores without a plastic wrap is just asking for trouble
On April 26 2010 16:47 Quesadilla wrote: All I gotta say is that not even going to any of the aforementioned places, it's still completely possible to have an insane night here for free.
After maybe 2 AM, Hongdae turns into one of the most chaotic places I've ever seen. Girls wearing skirts in 15-degree weather aren't looking to go home to their own houses...
As extreme as Korea is about Starcraft, just imagine that in every other light--including the opposite extreme. Remember? Korea has the highest saturation of Christians on Earth. Blog posts just aren't as exciting about that.
That goes for good people having a nice time as well. I've met a lot of awesome people here, and a surprising amount of people who don't even drink a drop. Korea gets glorified as the motherland of all things insane on TL, but it's really not. Go live in New York or LA, you can find crazy things even more easily.
:C -1 point for korea
even if these places are the most hygienic concerning STI's, i still wouldn't go rubber-less, even with the expensive pricey girls (who i'd never shell out the cash for anyway .) plugging professional whores without a plastic wrap is just asking for trouble
Oh of course. As a matter of fact more STD's and STI's are spread way more from room salons and night clubs due to the girls being less aware compared to the prostitutes working and fucking 12 guys a day at anma's.
nice read. I get that Korean guys need someplace to let off steam. and that they don't do so by reading horny anime books/pillows/peepshows/sex game shows/buying used underwear/eating off naked women.. like in Japan >__<
On April 26 2010 17:38 chongu wrote: nice read. I get that Korean guys need someplace to let off steam. and that they don't do so by reading horny anime books/pillows/peepshows/sex game shows/buying used underwear/eating off naked women.. like in Japan >__<
S. Korea +1
Um you could replace every instance of Korea with Japan in this blog and it would still be true. Or Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc...
On April 26 2010 22:08 VarmVaffel wrote: I usually never reads long blogs like this, but this truly was an interesting read. Thank you for taking the time to write it!
Got a question though, how often is there that rich western business actually make use of these offers?
In my (limited) experience I would say close to never? Western-Asian business relations tend to be extremely formal and reserved.
@lilsusie: Understand your point but it's not like what the OP describes is unknown around here is it? 10 minutes on the search function should result in many similar previous threads.
Imo this blog is not only good to inform people from outside about their opportunitys in korea but also to kinda warn them about those places. I mean if I was there with some friends and none korean speaker I wouldn't wanna get in such a club by accident and in the end getting charged 5k for a night I just wanted to go drinking. Sure that might sound a bit naive, but you never know what happens in a country you have no idea about its culture.
But I gotta say it was very interesting to hear about an other side of Korea. I mean it's not like noone assumes such things there but you just don't have a clear picture of it. I don't think people will think less of Korea now because of that blog.
surprised it only costs 200 for anma i though it would be more
sounds baller haha
It's less than that or around that in Rhode Island for the same type of service, I'm actually surprised Koreans are that well-off to afford spending this kind of money on a regular basis.
On April 26 2010 15:52 Ack1027 wrote: So....you love your girlfriend but you fuck ee cha girls cuz it would be unprofessional to refuse?
In Korean culture, refusing your host is a VERY big nono. It's borderline insulting. And people who can afford to go to those places are not people you want to be insulting. Especially in a corporate/business scenario.
I am Korean, but thanks for the lesson. I'm sure he's thinking about his girlfriend and how respectful and polite he's being while he fucks whores.
On April 26 2010 15:16 lilsusie wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
I believe that people reading it understand that this is only the dirty part of Korea. I could make a beautiful post about my Korean culture and all our beautiful tourist spots and foods. Maybe I'll do that next! Why did I decide to post it? Well I see blogs everywhere about people going to Korea so they may as well understand what they might possibly want to try out.
I believe in the freedom of information.
Yes, freedom of information, but you also realize that TL isn't the place for people to say "OMG I'm going to Korea, I'm totally gonna blow 5k dollars on a night out with beautiful women!" (Well, maybe a few guys can but most are high school/college students who are poor) And those who CAN spend that much... already have. And blogged about it.
Don't assume on the internet that people will take this as "only the dirty part" of Korea. It's a part of Korea that most Koreans are not proud of, thus not really something that you need to publicly put into light. =/ Those are my 2 cents.
If it's something that most Korean's aren't proud of why does the government do nothing to stop any of it? Why do almost all korean males partake in it in one way or another? If you were unaware in many areas they have police guarding the perimeter of the red light districts! It's just the way it is and me sharing this information with a gaming website isn't going to do anything other than inform.
If anything, the korean way of disliking something but never having the balls to bring it out in the open is exactly why change for the better doesn't happen.
Perhaps I'll run for president of Korea! O wait I'm a USA citizen damn.
Perhaps this south park episode would address the issue as to why rich and powerful men want to have sex with many attractive women...
I enjoyed this blog, I've been meaning to go to Korea after a few of my friends get back from across the pond! I'll keep some of this advice in mind when I finnaly do go over!
Id be interested to read anything else about Korea you have to offer ^_^ Dining tips? Tourist spots? anything!
On April 26 2010 15:52 Ack1027 wrote: So....you love your girlfriend but you fuck ee cha girls cuz it would be unprofessional to refuse?
In Korean culture, refusing your host is a VERY big nono. It's borderline insulting. And people who can afford to go to those places are not people you want to be insulting. Especially in a corporate/business scenario.
I am Korean, but thanks for the lesson. I'm sure he's thinking about his girlfriend and how respectful and polite he's being while he fucks whores.
I love how you come in here with no knowledge about the real world and try to act like you are 'above' someone for whatever reason. You all have some convoluted ideal of the way a relationship should be and if it's not exactly like that the person causing the difference is evil or something. You say you're Korean but you must have grown up in USA or something to be talking like this.
In the real world, relationships aren't perfect. People cheat all the time on eachother or 'almost' cheat. Me having to do it sometimes due to my livelihood does not make me evil. It's a double-edged sword for me. I physically enjoy it at the time but I also wish deep down emotionally that I didn't have to do it for the sake of my job. Now you might argue that if I were a real man that I'd refuse to do it and find other work, but in the real world this isn't realistic at all. I value my job and position and if I have to stick my dick into a beautiful woman from time to time on one of my client's expense then I'll do it and not feel too bad about it.
If you really think about it: As long as I am very cautious with using protection and getting STD tested, which I am, and as long as my girlfriend never finds out no harm can ever come to anything. Infact only good can come from it. I am making good cash for us and I am also made a happy man for an hour from time to time.
The difference between cheaters in the normal world is that they are people like married men who fall in love with a secret lover and it retracts from their relationships. Or boyfriends who start treating their girlfriends like shit because they like a new girl better but they also wanna be getting laid by both so he stays with with both. Thats not what I'm doing at all.
What an interesting read - I really enjoyed it. Your insider's view is revealing and gets into the nitty gritty of a taboo subject that most cultures avoid at all costs. It's fun reading about the Korean system but really I understand that this kind of thing happens everywhere in every major urban center with wealth.
Are Korean night clubs one big prostitution establishment?
I can see why nerds find this cool though but for me it's pretty disgusting. I consider most of these girls whores of some kind after reading through your entire post and would not touch them with a ten foot pole.
Is Korea really this deranged? I thought women in Korea had more respect than this. Ridiculous
On April 27 2010 05:07 Foucault wrote: Are Korean night clubs one big prostitution establishment?
I can see why nerds find this cool though but for me it's pretty disgusting. I consider most of these girls whores of some kind after reading through your entire post and would not touch them with a ten foot pole.
Is Korea really this deranged? I thought women in Korea had more respect than this. Ridiculous
Learn to read. I already have stated in my post that night clubs are just normal girls going to drink and have fun and possibly meet guys. No prostitutes at night clubs. Even the room salon girls that go to night clubs are generally the ones that aren't for sale at their respective room salons. And room salon girls represent less than 5% of the female population of a nightclub at any given time.
Yeah but the girls are still being ushered into booths where the guys are sitting, what's up with that?
I guess the gender roles in Korea differ alot from here and most of Europe. Guys think this is awesome but don't seem to pay any thought to what the women think of this.
I would just feel totally weird having girls pulled at me
On April 27 2010 05:25 Foucault wrote: Yeah but the girls are still being ushered into booths where the guys are sitting, what's up with that?
I guess the gender roles in Korea differ alot from here and most of Europe. Guys think this is awesome but don't seem to pay any thought to what the women think of this.
I would just feel totally weird having girls pulled at me
You seem quite naive.
This is what one would call "cultural difference." It's just a system developed by Koreans. It's basically like speed dating and it's not like they are physically dragging the girls, though that does happen too sometimes. Though I can see how it would feel weird having a girl pulled next to you. Most first-time goers feel that way.
Koreans are in general a lot more shy than the western world with regards to approaching new people openly, so this system helps them out.
Guys think this is awesome but don't seem to pay any thought to what the women think of this.
You do realize that it's called a 'booking club' for a reason and that girls know exactly what they are getting themselves into when going there? It's not like anyone forced them in the front door of the night club lol.
From my understanding of OP's post, the women who partakes in said establishment, is fully aware of the situation they are in and embraces the fact that they are "chosen" due to their appearance and it gives them the rush they seek, even if they seem like they are conservative and shy (why enter the clubs in the first place if you're not looking and expecting?)
I fail to see how comparing a muslim woman being forced to wear a burka anyhow relates to a girl going to a booking club to meet guys. Maybe I'm just dumb though.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: I am naive? lol man get off your high horses. How old are you again?
And you telling me to get off MY high horse?
Look at the way you were talking when you either a. didn't read the post or b. couldn't comprehend it.
Are Korean night clubs one big prostitution establishment?
I can see why nerds find this cool though but for me it's pretty disgusting. I consider most of these girls whores of some kind after reading through your entire post and would not touch them with a ten foot pole.
Is Korea really this deranged? I thought women in Korea had more respect than this. Ridiculous
I saw something on TV about clubs like that where the women get put into booths with other men and groups. It's just a way to try and break the ice because of Koreans general shyness towards strangers. Don't get so uppity about it. They're not being slipped any date rape drug and it's of their own free will.
On April 27 2010 05:41 Foucault wrote: You are so not getting my point are you?
I think we're talking on different levels here but I really don't have the time to argue anymore.
Yes of course I get your point. Anyone can argue that something bad that another nation does is just 'culture difference.' I know that, but that would be a complete logical fallacy. And thats definitely what I'm not doing here. You're the one missing the point: korean girls love it too. Hell, they get the better end of the bargain because they don't have to pay anything to go there.
Also girls can get rooms and get guys booked to their room too, just doesn't happen very often.
From my experience, despite not knowing the language it was still fun. You are in a room with your friends and drinking together, which is a fun night anyways. And girls are getting shipped in which makes it more fun. Sometimes they resisted because we're a room of foreigners. Sometimes they ran out of the room. Sometimes they decided to eventually sit down and had a great time. Sometimes they didn't and got up and left. Sometimes they were in the fucking queue so long I'd see the same girl shipped in 2 or 3 times. Some of them seemed like they wanted to meet a guy. Some of them seemed like they wanted to get laid.
None of the girls seemed like they didn't know what they were in for nor did they seem forced.
I can see how you would think this setup is weird, which is totally fine. I don't think you need to judge the kinds of men and women who go there, though. I've asked almost every Korean person (90% girls) I've met in Canada if they went to a booking club. Usually they yes and they say it was a good experience.
I also feel the need to say that Korean bars are different than western bars. You are usually in your own little area and it's blocked off. It's not like in Europe / North America where it's a huge open room with tables. So it's harder to just walk up to people are start talking. Plus in my experience everyone there is shy as fuck and ridiculously self-conscious.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: I am naive? lol man get off your high horses. How old are you again?
You can call anything a "cultural difference" regardless of how stupid it is. It's also a "cultural difference" that many muslim women wear burkas.
All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
You are totally wrong here. Also cultural difference means everything. What's not right to you is fine to others. And I get the impression this is just You specifically, most guys from Sweden would find this cool. You may be disgusted with whores while some people have sex with them and feel o.k. about it. To me a girl that cheats on you is worse off than a whore because whores are honest about it. Get real, you can't be seriously asking "how old are you?" with this.
You guys have to understand that jumo's and these types of services have been in Korean culture for hundreds and hundreds of years. You also have to understand that there is no country where "escort" services and prostitution have not existed currently and historically.
Many of you are so overwhelmed at this post and don't take into thought that this is just the "Korean" way of doing these services. When Koreans hear of the American and European ways of prostitution, such as street prostitution, orgy clubs, strip bars, bear clubs, etc; it is very alien to them..
I'm pretty sure I can make an extensive blog on the American way "things" are done and it will be as interesting.
As for night clubs, I live in Korea town in Los Angeles and there are plenty of Korean night clubs such as Le Cercle, Velvet Room, etc and they are what they are. You go with a bunch of guys and your host introduces other patrons which are female and you have fun with them. If they don't like you, they leave. I can assure you, if you go to a regular Korean club and approach girls, it is the most awkward experience ever. Dancing is huge in Korea and many girls just go to clubs to relieve stress and just DANCE (not meet guys). Many of you are thinking that night clubs are just a huge prostitution ring but it's NOT! It's the same as any other American or European club besides the booking part. Honestly, when you go to to American or European clubs, you go to pick up girls, have a fun night, and **** them. Right???? Koreans are the same exact way but we culturally "shy" Koreans need a boost with the booking system.
**Warning** NEVER go to night clubs with other girls even if they are your good friends! Why? Because they come and go out of your room drinking your alcohol that you PAID for and they also get booked to other rooms and drink their alcohol for FREE. Also, while they are going in and out of your room, they host thinks you are already booked and they don't bring in other girls! *sad face*
The lesson of my post is culture culture culture. If you are introduced to a new culture, it is very alien...RIGHT? So yea...learn stuff, teach stuff, eat stuff. Oh yea, one more thing, guys are just naturally horny, so we learn to appease the horny senses. How else would the world survive?
PS. I know this is my first post but I like reading and not posting...so don't bombard me and call me a nubs.
Agreed about going with a girl KudoJoe. Not only that but when you go with a girl and she's in the room when you or friends are doing booking naturally she and your booking girl will get talking. Once the booking girl realizes that she's a friend of your guys she will totally put up her guard and not try to impose herself at all and keep it totally 'friendly' even if she could have possibly liked you. Koreans avoid confrontation at all costs even if it's a girl trying to avoid some imaginary cat fight that would have never happened.
On April 27 2010 06:10 DanCeWithDevil wrote: Agreed about going with a girl KudoJoe. Not only that but when you go with a girl and she's in the room when you or friends are doing booking naturally she and your booking girl will get talking. Once the booking girl realizes that she's a friend of your guys she will totally put up her guard and not try to impose herself at all and keep it totally 'friendly' even if she could have possibly liked you. Koreans avoid confrontation at all costs even if it's a girl trying to avoid some imaginary cat fight that would have never happened.
It's true about Korean girls avoiding confrontation but Korean American girls are so different. They look forward to confrontations and I've seen plenty of cat fights between them. Again culture difference.
My night club days have been over for a few years now but in my line of work, we do actually have business meetings in roombbangs which are very productive. 30 minutes of business meeting in a roombbang creates more opportunities than having them inside of my office or at coffee shops in my experience.
It's the same as any other American or European club besides the booking part. Honestly, when you go to to American or European clubs, you go to pick up girls, have a fun night, and **** them. Right????
Not entirely true, if you go to a "techno" club none of the super hot girls that are dancing on X or amphetamine will care for meeting a guy and talking to him. Still it's much easier in the US, Europe was a bit different.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
He's going Hegelian on us.
Women are the Other, therefore men are the Norm. Anything that happens is for the development/benefit of men, and women are an afterthought.
De Beauvoir calls the Other the minority, the least favored one and often a woman, when compared to a man, "for a man represents both the positive and the neutral, as indicated by the common use of man to designate human beings in general; whereas woman represents only the negative, defined by limiting criteria, without reciprocity."
In simple terms, fake-forum-Foucault means to call Korean culture very sexist, which is probably true since it's derived from many of the same hyper-masculine influences that formed Chinese and Japanese culture.
Obviously sexism exists throughout the rest of the world as well but I think you could argue East Asian countries are far behind, especially given how advanced the rest of their societies are. Then again, I can't read or speak Korean, so there could certainly be the same kind of counter culture you see in the US and Europe. Not in Japan though. o.o I don't think calling something a "cultural difference" changes whether something is sexist, racist, etc. It just rationalizes it on the personal level.
DanCeWithDevil: "It's just a system developed by Koreans." I'd wager Smuft's $5000 that it's a system developed by Korean men.
None of this is really that shocking, however. Honestly, I don't have much of an issue with the prostitution. The obsession with prastic surgery and lound eyes is a bit disturbing, though.
It's a very male oriented society everywhere you go, if you blindly ignore all other factors that caters to females. These establishment and clubs exists not just in Korea. I could say Japan is a female oriented society if I solely and narrowly base my fact that "for-female" clubs exists where the guy caters to the female interest, but that would be ridiculous and absurd of me to even expressed that as fact.
The situation in clubs (from what I read in OP's post), is that the girls are able to leave at will (sometimes they just stay longer to be nice), if they don't find the male companion clicks with them. Nothing is forcing them to be "sex slaves" which is the attitude I find from you post. I'm sure "for-females" club exists in Korea too, as it should if the market exists, just like anywhere else.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
You are my favourite poster.
I think we click. Want to go night clubbing? =p It's an experience you all should try though!
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
You are my favourite poster.
I think we click. Want to go night clubbing? =p It's an experience you all should try though!
ive been to both boss and club i it was fun.. but the whole girls being brought to your table thing didn't appeal at all. but then again (before i got all married anyway) I always just wanted girls to be so impressed by my dancing that they hit on me. and girls hitting on guys seems like a predominantly scandinavian thing. in a country with as much blatant rampant sexism as korea, this kind of thing isn't very strange.
but thinking that the korean room salon / clubbing scene is not ridiculously sexist is just silly.
On April 26 2010 15:52 Ack1027 wrote: So....you love your girlfriend but you fuck ee cha girls cuz it would be unprofessional to refuse?
In Korean culture, refusing your host is a VERY big nono. It's borderline insulting. And people who can afford to go to those places are not people you want to be insulting. Especially in a corporate/business scenario.
I am Korean, but thanks for the lesson. I'm sure he's thinking about his girlfriend and how respectful and polite he's being while he fucks whores.
I love how you come in here with no knowledge about the real world and try to act like you are 'above' someone for whatever reason. You all have some convoluted ideal of the way a relationship should be and if it's not exactly like that the person causing the difference is evil or something. You say you're Korean but you must have grown up in USA or something to be talking like this.
In the real world, relationships aren't perfect. People cheat all the time on eachother or 'almost' cheat. Me having to do it sometimes due to my livelihood does not make me evil. It's a double-edged sword for me. I physically enjoy it at the time but I also wish deep down emotionally that I didn't have to do it for the sake of my job. Now you might argue that if I were a real man that I'd refuse to do it and find other work, but in the real world this isn't realistic at all. I value my job and position and if I have to stick my dick into a beautiful woman from time to time on one of my client's expense then I'll do it and not feel too bad about it.
If you really think about it: As long as I am very cautious with using protection and getting STD tested, which I am, and as long as my girlfriend never finds out no harm can ever come to anything. Infact only good can come from it. I am making good cash for us and I am also made a happy man for an hour from time to time.
The difference between cheaters in the normal world is that they are people like married men who fall in love with a secret lover and it retracts from their relationships. Or boyfriends who start treating their girlfriends like shit because they like a new girl better but they also wanna be getting laid by both so he stays with with both. Thats not what I'm doing at all.
I'm merely taking one for the team.
I am above you. The fact that you wish you didn't have to do it ' for the sake of your job ' says enough. You say you speak English and Korean but you must have grown up in Korea to think that the word ' Livelihood ' means you must be a VIP host at a casino.
On April 26 2010 15:52 Ack1027 wrote: So....you love your girlfriend but you fuck ee cha girls cuz it would be unprofessional to refuse?
In Korean culture, refusing your host is a VERY big nono. It's borderline insulting. And people who can afford to go to those places are not people you want to be insulting. Especially in a corporate/business scenario.
I am Korean, but thanks for the lesson. I'm sure he's thinking about his girlfriend and how respectful and polite he's being while he fucks whores.
I love how you come in here with no knowledge about the real world and try to act like you are 'above' someone for whatever reason. You all have some convoluted ideal of the way a relationship should be and if it's not exactly like that the person causing the difference is evil or something. You say you're Korean but you must have grown up in USA or something to be talking like this.
In the real world, relationships aren't perfect. People cheat all the time on eachother or 'almost' cheat. Me having to do it sometimes due to my livelihood does not make me evil. It's a double-edged sword for me. I physically enjoy it at the time but I also wish deep down emotionally that I didn't have to do it for the sake of my job. Now you might argue that if I were a real man that I'd refuse to do it and find other work, but in the real world this isn't realistic at all. I value my job and position and if I have to stick my dick into a beautiful woman from time to time on one of my client's expense then I'll do it and not feel too bad about it.
If you really think about it: As long as I am very cautious with using protection and getting STD tested, which I am, and as long as my girlfriend never finds out no harm can ever come to anything. Infact only good can come from it. I am making good cash for us and I am also made a happy man for an hour from time to time.
The difference between cheaters in the normal world is that they are people like married men who fall in love with a secret lover and it retracts from their relationships. Or boyfriends who start treating their girlfriends like shit because they like a new girl better but they also wanna be getting laid by both so he stays with with both. Thats not what I'm doing at all.
I'm merely taking one for the team.
I am above you. The fact that you wish you didn't have to do it ' for the sake of your job ' says enough. You say you speak English and Korean but you must have grown up in Korea to think that the word ' Livelihood ' means you must be a VIP host at a casino.
Not of us are all extremely multi-talented and have infinite avenues that we can take in life to make money as you appear to have. I kind of fell into the job I have and unless I want to go back to making 1500$ a month as opposed to the 8,000$ I make per month now then I really have no choice but to continue sometimes having sex with beautiful women against my will. Oh well thats life I guess.
On April 26 2010 15:52 Ack1027 wrote: So....you love your girlfriend but you fuck ee cha girls cuz it would be unprofessional to refuse?
In Korean culture, refusing your host is a VERY big nono. It's borderline insulting. And people who can afford to go to those places are not people you want to be insulting. Especially in a corporate/business scenario.
I am Korean, but thanks for the lesson. I'm sure he's thinking about his girlfriend and how respectful and polite he's being while he fucks whores.
I love how you come in here with no knowledge about the real world and try to act like you are 'above' someone for whatever reason. You all have some convoluted ideal of the way a relationship should be and if it's not exactly like that the person causing the difference is evil or something. You say you're Korean but you must have grown up in USA or something to be talking like this.
In the real world, relationships aren't perfect. People cheat all the time on eachother or 'almost' cheat. Me having to do it sometimes due to my livelihood does not make me evil. It's a double-edged sword for me. I physically enjoy it at the time but I also wish deep down emotionally that I didn't have to do it for the sake of my job. Now you might argue that if I were a real man that I'd refuse to do it and find other work, but in the real world this isn't realistic at all. I value my job and position and if I have to stick my dick into a beautiful woman from time to time on one of my client's expense then I'll do it and not feel too bad about it.
If you really think about it: As long as I am very cautious with using protection and getting STD tested, which I am, and as long as my girlfriend never finds out no harm can ever come to anything. Infact only good can come from it. I am making good cash for us and I am also made a happy man for an hour from time to time.
The difference between cheaters in the normal world is that they are people like married men who fall in love with a secret lover and it retracts from their relationships. Or boyfriends who start treating their girlfriends like shit because they like a new girl better but they also wanna be getting laid by both so he stays with with both. Thats not what I'm doing at all.
I'm merely taking one for the team.
I am above you. The fact that you wish you didn't have to do it ' for the sake of your job ' says enough. You say you speak English and Korean but you must have grown up in Korea to think that the word ' Livelihood ' means you must be a VIP host at a casino.
Not of us are all extremely multi-talented and have infinite avenues that we can in life to make money as you appear to have. I kind of fell into the job I have and unless I want to go back to making 1500$ a month as opposed to the 8,000$ I make per month now then I really have no choice but to continue sometimes having sex with beautiful women against my will. Oh well thats life I guess.
Damn...you're basically getting paid to have sex with beautiful women against your own will. You're no better than those poor Korean girls! JK
DanCeWithDevil's casino life is nowhere near as bad as Las Vegas. You get some nasty hookers over there and some bad nasty white powdered drugs. But seriously, whats up with the criticism over someones life? DanCe is doing what he has to do to get by in life. You only seem to be above him because you have only lived in your own bubble which is a completely different bubble from DanCe. That is a good thing, but that gives you no right to criticize his life.
Yeah it's not like I came here bragging at all. I came here merely to inform and now these kids who have no clue about anything are getting all up in arms at me because I 'cheat' on my girlfriend. Oh how the media brainwashes people, it's so funny.
While most people do know this exists, I think my issue is that Korea is the country that is being spotlighted. And as you've seen already from several post responses, even though you preface your post by saying that this is just one small portion of the underground, night life... many still gather the assumption is that Korea is ONLY a hedonistic, male chauvinistic, sex crazed culture. That's not exactly how I want my country to be described as. (there's more to Korea than this!!)
On the topic of night clubs, as a female, it IS kinda fun to go around to different tables, talking to different guys. When I get into a room I pretend to be anyone I want, make fake names, pretend I can't speak Korean or English depending on the situation. It's been a LONG time since I went with my girlfriends (probably back in high school or college) but we all used to go with the intention of meeting back up before leaving the club. It was for free booze and giggles. (and to laugh at the pathetic guys - cuz while some guys were cool, my GOD there are some pathetic, ugly, fat, balding sweaty men out there who think that by just flaunting money they can get in my pants.) The night clubs are definitely not "bad" and the girls are all normal girls.
Note to girls: If possible, rent a phone for the night so that when a guy asks for your number, you give him that one and never hear from him again. Either that or get a prepaid phone that you can cancel or just use for clubbing nights.
As for going with a group of guys, usually I'll sit with the guy who has a girlfriend and DOESN'T want to be booked (yes, some guys here have morals that they stick to) or I just go out and get booked myself. Kinda sucks to get booked when you have a bf and don't really wanna talk to/get groped by other guys.
However, the cheating thing.. I see that your work > respect for your girlfriend. But then again, if you have a Korean-Korean girlfriend I'm sure she already knows and doesn't care cuz you're bringing home the cash. Sigh.
This culture is everywhere, wake the fuck up. It's a money-making machinery thats beyond comprehension and it's global. The dark culture will always be present due to the desire of human nature with big money. Sexism will always exist for this reason.
What is dark about people having sex? It's natural. We've just found ways to spice it up with odd rituals like booking, anmas, etc. There's nothing dark about it. It's just good sensual fun. Everyone likes sexy!
And it's not sexist. On a general level, women like men who can provide, and men like women who are physically attractive. Guys want one commodity, girls want another. There's no inherent inequality there, just different.
On April 27 2010 11:23 LOcDowN wrote: It's a dark playing ground for adult, I'm not against it at all. But if you fail to see why it's dark then that you need to wake the fuck up.
It's not dark. Those adults worked hard to make enough money to attract those young women. They are like old, long-maned lions, prowling around with their scarred hides and yellowed fangs, sniffing around for a sleek lioness to mount. And there's no need for rage/wakingfuckups. I don't see anything wrong with women chasing material wealth and men leveraging said wealth to attract them. It's not something I would personally do, but judging others for having different life goals is more repugnant to me than actually engaging in said "dark" activities.
On April 27 2010 10:11 lilsusie wrote: As for going with a group of guys, usually I'll sit with the guy who has a girlfriend and DOESN'T want to be booked (yes, some guys here have morals that they stick to) or I just go out and get booked myself. Kinda sucks to get booked when you have a bf and don't really wanna talk to/get groped by other guys.
Any single guy that doesn't want to try out booking while in a booking club is simply insecure. Any guy with a girlfriend that goes to a night club then is scared to have a conversation with a girl just because they think that might be 'cheating' is pathetic.
If only everyone could just let loose and be cool~
I don't know what's going on here with all people bashing, defending, arguing, Korea-loving/hating, OP-hating. Either some people on this forum are just trolls trying to rile something up or really don't understand life in general.
OP here has a difficult job of satisfying the demands of his customer. That's a job requirement for everyone folks. Regardless of whether you work as a doctor or a convenience store owner, it is in the best interest for everyone to satisfy people who pay them. And the thing about his girlfriend...who are you kids trying to act like Indiana Jones of morals with their compasses guiding what Jesus told them to do? Do you guys really understand or have you been raised in a totally sterile environment with perfumes and rainbows? If you can't understand them, I'm totally fine with that but don't come here to complain and preach about how wrong OP's life is because you guys don't live the same way. I'm not gonna tell you guys to deal with it because you obviously can't.
For those who generalize Koreans based on this post is really probably the reason why lilsusie opposed this post and probably why OP could have hesitated writing it. For those talking about woman's rights and patriarchal societies...note that this is not OP's idea. This is just the way the culture has formed and is at this point. Regardless of whether a person opinions, this is just the way it is. I personally do not believe in patriarchal society and promote woman's rights but as when there is light, there is always a shadow. People who are speaking like they have ethics of Gandhi should really be questioning themselves whether they are being heroes by bashing at the OP for stating his observations and what IS the truth, not just in Korea, but in today's world (probably the reason why there are woman's rights movement even now).
I sincerely thank OP for writing this blog because it's not a very easy thing to do write about. I learned new things and was a very interesting read. I know this post got defiled by some people who clearly didn't (or rather still don't) understand the text but I personally thank you for this great post ^^.
EDIT: P.S. GL getting the managerial position in the future!
On April 27 2010 10:11 lilsusie wrote: As for going with a group of guys, usually I'll sit with the guy who has a girlfriend and DOESN'T want to be booked (yes, some guys here have morals that they stick to) or I just go out and get booked myself. Kinda sucks to get booked when you have a bf and don't really wanna talk to/get groped by other guys.
Any single guy that doesn't want to try out booking while in a booking club is simply insecure. Any guy with a girlfriend that goes to a night club then is scared to have a conversation with a girl just because they think that might be 'cheating' is pathetic.
If only everyone could just let loose and be cool~
I was with you up until this point but this is just stupid. Not wanting to get booking doesn't mean at all you are being insecure or scared.
Also don't bother with Faucault his main job on this website is to inform everyone how negative and horribly bad whatever-they-are-talking-about / the world is.
This is the first time I've seen this thread, but it's probably the best thing I've seen on here in months, beating out starcraft 2, the betting scandal and any KeSPA issues :D.
What's all the fuss about this, susie, and anyone else? Out of all the countries in the world, this site is most fitted for the underground scene of South Korea, not Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, South America, and so on. I WISH we could get as detailed posts about this sort of thing in Russian, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Brazil, Sweden, Argentina, Denmark, etc. Someone get to it!
On April 27 2010 15:24 Slasher wrote: This is the first time I've seen this thread, but it's probably the best thing I've seen on here in months, beating out starcraft 2, the betting scandal and any KeSPA issues :D.
What's all the fuss about this, susie, and anyone else? Out of all the countries in the world, this site is most fitted for the underground scene of South Korea, not Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, South America, and so on. I WISH we could get as detailed posts about this sort of thing in Russian, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Brazil, Sweden, Argentina, Denmark, etc. Someone get to it!
It's a pride thing. I don't like having my country singled out and have it's dirty laundry aired out for everyone to see. =/ but carry on with your information sessions. Everyone loves dirty things.
On April 27 2010 15:24 Slasher wrote: This is the first time I've seen this thread, but it's probably the best thing I've seen on here in months, beating out starcraft 2, the betting scandal and any KeSPA issues :D.
What's all the fuss about this, susie, and anyone else? Out of all the countries in the world, this site is most fitted for the underground scene of South Korea, not Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, South America, and so on. I WISH we could get as detailed posts about this sort of thing in Russian, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Brazil, Sweden, Argentina, Denmark, etc. Someone get to it!
It's a pride thing. I don't like having my country singled out and have it's dirty laundry aired out for everyone to see. =/ but carry on with your information sessions. Everyone loves dirty things.
mmm .. aren't you being a little bit oversensitive here?
it's not like after reading this everyone starts picturing Korea as a country filled with slutty whores spreading their legs for money ... i mean, most if not all of us here have already known what Korea is like overall in terms of culture, the people, the food, Starcraft and so on ... this is just one of the many things that people can find in Korea (or in any country for that matter) ... you might call it dark, dirty laundry or whatever ... though i seriously doubt that people will start to (or ever) disrespect Korea just from those facts ... if there are those who don't like booking club, sexual sauna (WHO THE FUCK DOESN'T?!?!?!?! ehemm ... excuse me), they will just simply look for other things in Korea ... it's not like "eww they have boob massage in Seoul, let's visit somewhere else" ...
just my .02 though, i understand your concern susie ... though it's not totally a bad thing as how you have been seeing it ...
On April 27 2010 15:24 Slasher wrote: This is the first time I've seen this thread, but it's probably the best thing I've seen on here in months, beating out starcraft 2, the betting scandal and any KeSPA issues :D.
What's all the fuss about this, susie, and anyone else? Out of all the countries in the world, this site is most fitted for the underground scene of South Korea, not Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, South America, and so on. I WISH we could get as detailed posts about this sort of thing in Russian, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Brazil, Sweden, Argentina, Denmark, etc. Someone get to it!
It's a pride thing. I don't like having my country singled out and have it's dirty laundry aired out for everyone to see. =/ but carry on with your information sessions. Everyone loves dirty things.
mmm .. aren't you being a little bit oversensitive here?
it's not like after reading this everyone starts picturing Korea as a country filled with slutty whores spreading their legs for money ... i mean, most if not all of us here have already known what Korea is like overall in terms of culture, the people, the food, Starcraft and so on ... this is just one of the many things that people can find in Korea (or in any country for that matter) ... you might call it dark, dirty laundry or whatever ... though i seriously doubt that people will start to (or ever) disrespect Korea just from those facts ... if there are those who don't like booking club, sexual sauna (WHO THE FUCK DOESN'T?!?!?!?! ehemm ... excuse me), they will just simply look for other things in Korea ... it's not like "eww they have boob massage in Seoul, let's visit somewhere else" ...
just my .02 though, i understand your concern susie ... though it's not totally a bad thing as how you have been seeing it ...
@rek. yes. and i'm not unemployed yet. 3 more days. (hooray!!)
@nayumi. i accept your 2 cents. Living in a culture like this as a korean american female can be difficult. and you might be giving the average poster too much credit. I was merely stating that having things like this out in the open - I don't see much use for it. Rek's posts are different to me in that it's they are actual blogs of his crazy night life antics. This one is a "hey look guys, this is what happens in Korea, have a good day!" I'm just being picky about how it was presented that's all. and those are my 2 cents.
On April 27 2010 15:24 Slasher wrote: I WISH we could get as detailed posts about this sort of thing in Russian, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Brazil, Sweden, Argentina, Denmark, etc. Someone get to it!
I could do those (from what i remember) but it doesn't come close to what we have here. I'm sure they have lots of crazy things in Moscow, but that's a completely different world, hardly accessible to poor low-lifers like myself (we wouldn't be talking about 2k dollar nights out, it's a lot more than that). Ukraine and Russia literally have nothing fancy going on. No booking clubs, no room salons, just classic prostitution. Of course you can still get anything you want if you have the money.
I enjoyed reading it, and I know for fact that you can find a lot of these places (minus booking clubs, afaik) in Japan and China (with much worse ventures) as well. Nothing came to me as a shock at all.
Asian men just like this kind of shit. What can you do...
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Do you know what "the norm" means? It means normal. So clearly you can see the confusion between your two sentences.
Also, I'm glad you are inferring information about a country based on posts about night club culture. How's that working out for you?
Yes Chill I know what "norm" means and it's uses to describe the things that are "allowed" or sanctioned by a society. My pardon if I was confusing.
From OP's post I got the picture that Korea is a very male-oriented society, like many countries unfortunately are in the world. Mostly males go to these clubs and they decide which girls they want to talk to etc etc. It's not just about these clubs, but the underlying beliefs about gender that drives this. Pretty much a basic patriarchy.
The only reason I can see anyone being fine with this is if they really have a hard time approaching women in a "normal" setting. And hell, that's a very egoistical reason.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Do you know what "the norm" means? It means normal. So clearly you can see the confusion between your two sentences.
Also, I'm glad you are inferring information about a country based on posts about night club culture. How's that working out for you?
Yes Chill I know what "norm" means and it's uses to describe the things that are "allowed" or sanctioned by a society. My pardon if I was confusing.
From OP's post I got the picture that Korea is a very male-oriented society, like many countries unfortunately are in the world. Mostly males go to these clubs and they decide which girls they want to talk to etc etc. It's not just about these clubs, but the underlying beliefs about gender that drives this. Pretty much a basic patriarchy.
The only reason I can see anyone being fine with this is if they really have a hard time approaching women in a "normal" setting. And hell, that's a very egoistical reason.
Take this as an official warning: Stop posting in this thread. Hell, I wish you would stop posting altogether.
On April 26 2010 15:52 Ack1027 wrote: So....you love your girlfriend but you fuck ee cha girls cuz it would be unprofessional to refuse?
In Korean culture, refusing your host is a VERY big nono. It's borderline insulting. And people who can afford to go to those places are not people you want to be insulting. Especially in a corporate/business scenario.
I am Korean, but thanks for the lesson. I'm sure he's thinking about his girlfriend and how respectful and polite he's being while he fucks whores.
I love how you come in here with no knowledge about the real world and try to act like you are 'above' someone for whatever reason. You all have some convoluted ideal of the way a relationship should be and if it's not exactly like that the person causing the difference is evil or something. You say you're Korean but you must have grown up in USA or something to be talking like this.
In the real world, relationships aren't perfect. People cheat all the time on eachother or 'almost' cheat. Me having to do it sometimes due to my livelihood does not make me evil. It's a double-edged sword for me. I physically enjoy it at the time but I also wish deep down emotionally that I didn't have to do it for the sake of my job. Now you might argue that if I were a real man that I'd refuse to do it and find other work, but in the real world this isn't realistic at all. I value my job and position and if I have to stick my dick into a beautiful woman from time to time on one of my client's expense then I'll do it and not feel too bad about it.
If you really think about it: As long as I am very cautious with using protection and getting STD tested, which I am, and as long as my girlfriend never finds out no harm can ever come to anything. Infact only good can come from it. I am making good cash for us and I am also made a happy man for an hour from time to time.
The difference between cheaters in the normal world is that they are people like married men who fall in love with a secret lover and it retracts from their relationships. Or boyfriends who start treating their girlfriends like shit because they like a new girl better but they also wanna be getting laid by both so he stays with with both. Thats not what I'm doing at all.
I'm merely taking one for the team.
I am above you. The fact that you wish you didn't have to do it ' for the sake of your job ' says enough. You say you speak English and Korean but you must have grown up in Korea to think that the word ' Livelihood ' means you must be a VIP host at a casino.
The very fact that you claim you are "above" anyone is proof that you are indeed below them Ack.
On April 26 2010 15:16 lilsusie wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
I believe that people reading it understand that this is only the dirty part of Korea. I could make a beautiful post about my Korean culture and all our beautiful tourist spots and foods. Maybe I'll do that next! Why did I decide to post it? Well I see blogs everywhere about people going to Korea so they may as well understand what they might possibly want to try out.
I believe in the freedom of information.
Yes, freedom of information, but you also realize that TL isn't the place for people to say "OMG I'm going to Korea, I'm totally gonna blow 5k dollars on a night out with beautiful women!" (Well, maybe a few guys can but most are high school/college students who are poor) And those who CAN spend that much... already have. And blogged about it.
Don't assume on the internet that people will take this as "only the dirty part" of Korea. It's a part of Korea that most Koreans are not proud of, thus not really something that you need to publicly put into light. =/ Those are my 2 cents.
If it's something that most Korean's aren't proud of why does the government do nothing to stop any of it? Why do almost all korean males partake in it in one way or another? If you were unaware in many areas they have police guarding the perimeter of the red light districts! It's just the way it is and me sharing this information with a gaming website isn't going to do anything other than inform.
If anything, the korean way of disliking something but never having the balls to bring it out in the open is exactly why change for the better doesn't happen.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
Also, I said a few are forced because they get loan money from loan sharks (which is a stupid thing to do btw) and sign a ridiculous contract saying if they can't pay them back, they have to work for the loan shark. These loan sharks basically run the anmas, salons, etc. Who's stupid enough to sign a contract like that with like 150% interest rates? Maybe they should work in a low life crap hole because they are stupid enough to sign those contracts. Or maybe Korea just has a stupid loan system.
Whatever the case, most girls do it because they like it, some girls have to do it cause they were stupid.
I'm not being sexist here either. Men loan money from these loan sharks more often and destroy their lives.
Wow...another dark side of Korea. Korea has many more good sides than bad!
it's not because people are stupid enough to sign contracts. they're aware that the terms are ridiculously unfavorable.
but sometimes you can't get a loan from the bank and if you're desperate enough for money, your only option is to go to the loan sharks. it's not like they don't know what they're getting into
On April 28 2010 01:42 lowbright wrote: it's not because people are stupid enough to sign contracts. they're aware that the terms are ridiculously unfavorable.
but sometimes you can't get a loan from the bank and if you're desperate enough for money, your only option is to go to the loan sharks. it's not like they don't know what they're getting into
Hmm..ridiculous interest rates, contracts that say they can use you as a slave until you pay off, take your daughter and wife, take your house, beat your family, police do nothing about it because it's a signed contract or turn a blind eye, etc...damn they have to be pretty desperate.
Maybe it's only my view that make me think people who loan from loan sharks are stupid. I'll keep my opinion private then.
Informative thread. I'm really glad it's specific to the Korean scene, even though lilsusie doesn't like it being focused on her country, because it's more tangible that way. Being able to classify this to Korea makes it more accurate, as it can be affirmed/denied by other posters, and is easier to remember. For lilsusie's benefit, I don't form any other conclusions about Korean culture.
On April 27 2010 15:24 Slasher wrote: This is the first time I've seen this thread, but it's probably the best thing I've seen on here in months, beating out starcraft 2, the betting scandal and any KeSPA issues :D.
What's all the fuss about this, susie, and anyone else? Out of all the countries in the world, this site is most fitted for the underground scene of South Korea, not Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, South America, and so on. I WISH we could get as detailed posts about this sort of thing in Russian, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Brazil, Sweden, Argentina, Denmark, etc. Someone get to it!
It's a pride thing. I don't like having my country singled out and have it's dirty laundry aired out for everyone to see. =/ but carry on with your information sessions. Everyone loves dirty things.
a country filled with slutty whores spreading their legs for money ...
It's sad that when I read this line, I thought of every country in the world
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
Yeah, well he's kind of a dix. I loled when he called men the "norm" because it ONLY makes sense in an academic setting, and he had to be super vague about it. I've called someone an asshole before for trying to use the "Other" in a real conversation.
I think it's safe to assume DanCeWithDevil mostly just entertains dudes, so yes, everything in his OP is catered around serving guys. I'm curious about the other kinds of nightlife, though. Live music, other places to drink that don't have flashy strobe lights, etc.
or you can get a real massage from a blind professional
Wait what?
It's what many blinds (?) do. There was a ruckus years ago about repealing legislation that gave preferential treatment to the blind I think. Don't know what happened.
or you can get a real massage from a blind professional
Wait what?
It's what many blinds (?) do. There was a ruckus years ago about repealing legislation that gave preferential treatment to the blind I think. Don't know what happened.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
...
You're a fucking dumbass, Chill.
It's funny how you think I'm retarded when in fact you don't even understand what I'm talking about because you lack the knowledge needed. You're an engineer, right? I don't know shit about engineering but your behavior would be like me telling you something ridiculous, 3:rd grade kind of stupid about a subject you know alot about.
Seriously, you need to drop your friggin' attitude. You talk down everyone on the forums with your one-liners thinking you're some internet god. Yeah, maybe you are on TL.net but get a clue man, you are being pretty negative pretty much all of the time the recent year or whatever.
I can type whatever I want in response to a forum post as long as I keep it civil and don't break any rules. So don't YOU come here and tell me what I can and can not do.
PS. Also guys, wtf my first language isn't english so I can't type my thoughts out exactly like an english-speaking person would do. Especially academic language so gimme a break :/ I've studied at university for almost 5 years now and I'm a sociology/psychology major.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
...
You're a fucking dumbass, Chill.
It's funny how you think I'm retarded when in fact you don't even understand what I'm talking about because you lack the knowledge needed. You're an engineer, right? I don't know shit about engineering but your behavior would be like me telling you something ridiculous, 3:rd grade kind of stupid about a subject you know alot about.
Seriously, you need to drop your friggin' attitude. You talk down everyone on the forums with your one-liners thinking you're some internet god. Yeah, maybe you are on TL.net but get a clue man, you are being pretty negative pretty much all of the time the recent year or whatever.
I can type whatever I want in response to a forum post as long as I keep it civil and don't break any rules. So don't YOU come here and tell me what I can and can not do.
PS. Also guys, wtf my first language isn't english so I can't type my thoughts out exactly like an english-speaking person would do. Especially academic language so gimme a break :/ I've studied at university for almost 5 years now and I'm a sociology/psychology major.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
Yeah, well he's kind of a dix. I loled when he called men the "norm" because it ONLY makes sense in an academic setting, and he had to be super vague about it. I've called someone an asshole before for trying to use the "Other" in a real conversation.
I think it's safe to assume DanCeWithDevil mostly just entertains dudes, so yes, everything in his OP is catered around serving guys. I'm curious about the other kinds of nightlife, though. Live music, other places to drink that don't have flashy strobe lights, etc.
There is a very large variety of night life in Korea. Drinking is very big in Korea ( we are often called the Irish of Asia) and caters to all age groups and genders. There are soju bars, whiskey bars, wine bars, sports bars, classical music bars, jazz bars international bars, etc all around Seoul and other major cities. Besides bars, karaoke is a must, po jang mat (outdoor eating and drinking, usually inside of an orange tent), soju at any restaurant, oh did I mention soju?
You will literally find atleast 20 places to drink at every block of Seoul.
As someone mentioned earlier, it's not that uncommon for loan sharks to have agreements with different forms of prostitution to make the (as KudoJoe phrased it) 'stupid' girls who fall into the trap sex slaves. But whether or not the girls are being forced into this - consciously or unconsciously - is not the main issue here. Jibba already summed it up pretty well. The USA mind is for more individual responsibility where you take the consequences of your actions even if the society is not 'fair'. You have your social ladders and do everything in your power to climb - within the law. The reason why Foucault is upset is because the government here (unlike USA for example) consciously tries to protect people from these sorts of things; sexism, prostitution, gender unequality, judging people by physical appearance unconsciously, beauty fixation - almost everything described in this thread. The morals he grew up with and learned in school is a direct contradiction to everything in this thread. I'm not saying any method is superior, it's just that by arguing over the internet you need to realize that the morals are NOT universal, they change a lot from country to country - the cultural differences. It's something you always have to consider before mounting your horse to look down on other people with 'lesser' morals.
The will of South Korea as a whole obviously doesn't want to change this behaviour, as someone said earlier the whole thing is deeply rooted in the culture and people have a different view on using your body to your advantage (socially or economically), be it flirting, getting into clubs or even sex. The OP is definitely right in that it's not up to us to be condescending. If he wants to take advantage over how the society works then that's fine. Although I sense a slight glorification of the night life in Korea even though it's not as bad as in Rekrul's posts.
And I don't understand lilsusies posts at all. Taking pride in your country is fine, but concealing every 'problem' in the South Korean society (especially to the outside world) is one of the reasons why nothing ever changes... If there's is no attention, how are people going to consider these things more consciously? Isn't it very hypocritical saying you take pride in your country and still try to ignore certain aspects of the society? It reminds me of a South Korean movie I've seen Nabbeun namja/Bad Guy which is about the prostitution and gender roles. The movie was very provocative to the South Korean audience and it received attention in the press because the male actor was sexy and famous with some korean drama show meanwhile. The interesting thing is that even though the director put no moral values whatsoever in the movie, the audience interpreted it as trying to make South Korea look 'bad' in the eyes of the world. Sufficient to say the movie wasn't very highly praised in media...
And you also have to consider - why exactly is the prostitution, buying everything with money and plastics/superficial beauty fixation a minor taboo here? Why is it a 'hush hush' subject and who profits from the corruption and concealing?
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
...
You're a fucking dumbass, Chill.
It's funny how you think I'm retarded when in fact you don't even understand what I'm talking about because you lack the knowledge needed. You're an engineer, right? I don't know shit about engineering but your behavior would be like me telling you something ridiculous, 3:rd grade kind of stupid about a subject you know alot about.
Seriously, you need to drop your friggin' attitude. You talk down everyone on the forums with your one-liners thinking you're some internet god. Yeah, maybe you are on TL.net but get a clue man, you are being pretty negative pretty much all of the time the recent year or whatever.
I can type whatever I want in response to a forum post as long as I keep it civil and don't break any rules. So don't YOU come here and tell me what I can and can not do.
PS. Also guys, wtf my first language isn't english so I can't type my thoughts out exactly like an english-speaking person would do. Especially academic language so gimme a break :/ I've studied at university for almost 5 years now and I'm a sociology/psychology major.
lol, inc
Btw, awesome blog post, would read again.
I just read this entire thread trying to figure out why you said "inc"
On April 27 2010 05:42 Chill wrote: [quote] What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
...
You're a fucking dumbass, Chill.
It's funny how you think I'm retarded when in fact you don't even understand what I'm talking about because you lack the knowledge needed. You're an engineer, right? I don't know shit about engineering but your behavior would be like me telling you something ridiculous, 3:rd grade kind of stupid about a subject you know alot about.
Seriously, you need to drop your friggin' attitude. You talk down everyone on the forums with your one-liners thinking you're some internet god. Yeah, maybe you are on TL.net but get a clue man, you are being pretty negative pretty much all of the time the recent year or whatever.
I can type whatever I want in response to a forum post as long as I keep it civil and don't break any rules. So don't YOU come here and tell me what I can and can not do.
PS. Also guys, wtf my first language isn't english so I can't type my thoughts out exactly like an english-speaking person would do. Especially academic language so gimme a break :/ I've studied at university for almost 5 years now and I'm a sociology/psychology major.
lol, inc
Btw, awesome blog post, would read again.
I just read this entire thread trying to figure out why you said "inc"
i think you secretly search for inc on the search engine
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
...
You're a fucking dumbass, Chill.
It's funny how you think I'm retarded when in fact you don't even understand what I'm talking about because you lack the knowledge needed. You're an engineer, right? I don't know shit about engineering but your behavior would be like me telling you something ridiculous, 3:rd grade kind of stupid about a subject you know alot about.
The difference is that if the topic were engineering, there'd likely be some sort of jargon or something that would indicate the topic has become specialized. There's no such thing here, you just moved right into it and used a word that has tons of meanings in every day use.
PS. Also guys, wtf my first language isn't english so I can't type my thoughts out exactly like an english-speaking person would do. Especially academic language so gimme a break :/ I've studied at university for almost 5 years now and I'm a sociology/psychology major.
User was banned for this post.
I hope you read this. Your english is actually very excellent. I think that's why it's confusing for us. Because you sound just like a native speaker, when you get your words confused, we think you know exactly what you're trying to say and it makes no sense to us.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
Yeah, well he's kind of a dix. I loled when he called men the "norm" because it ONLY makes sense in an academic setting, and he had to be super vague about it. I've called someone an asshole before for trying to use the "Other" in a real conversation.
I think it's safe to assume DanCeWithDevil mostly just entertains dudes, so yes, everything in his OP is catered around serving guys. I'm curious about the other kinds of nightlife, though. Live music, other places to drink that don't have flashy strobe lights, etc.
There is a very large variety of night life in Korea. Drinking is very big in Korea ( we are often called the Irish of Asia) and caters to all age groups and genders. There are soju bars, whiskey bars, wine bars, sports bars, classical music bars, jazz bars international bars, etc all around Seoul and other major cities. Besides bars, karaoke is a must, po jang mat (outdoor eating and drinking, usually inside of an orange tent), soju at any restaurant, oh did I mention soju?
You will literally find atleast 20 places to drink at every block of Seoul.
I think soju is just meh. o.o Sure, it's smooth but it's cause there's not that much there. It's been a while but the last time I was drinking it, something was off with shot #4 or 5 and it tasted like rubbing alcohol, and I didn't have a chaser primed or something so I haven't had it since. That sounds weird now that I'm reading it, but I guess not remembering that night was kinda the point of it.
I'm glad there's other stuff for when I finally go. I like dancing, but live music is really my preferred thing.
or you can get a real massage from a blind professional
Wait what?
It's what many blinds (?) do. There was a ruckus years ago about repealing legislation that gave preferential treatment to the blind I think. Don't know what happened.
what?
Can't find a legitimate source currently, but:
You then might expect a blind masseuse to visit your room and give you a thorough massage for 30-45 minutes. Blind masseuses are noted for their heightened sense of touch and feeling in their hands, as a result of their lack of visual sense.
Lots of blinds are involved with legitimate massage industry.
I think gender problems are a pretty sensitive issue everywhere. However people wanna interpret the lifestyle OP described is fine. One thing I don't like though is when people try to justify themselves. To say no one is "forcing" you to do anything is a very dumb argument. On the other hand to criticize a certain culture on the basis of higher values, for example gender equality, is probably just as stupid. I can't see any reasons to take pride in being a part of a sociological phenomenon generated by wage disparity, patriarchal values, conservative values and who knows what. You wanna get laid, there's no need to prepare a good conscience so you don't feel guilty afterward. To use a bunch of bullshit reasons to justify your fulfilling of pleasures at the expense of others is pathetic. It's similar to people who feel bad for animals but can't stop eating meat, so they come up with reasons like oh I'm only gonna buy meat from places that treat their animals well. If we need morally pleasant reasoning to justify all of our actions then we might as well not act at all.
I don't know about booking clubs in Korea but in China there are definitely problems that violate some human rights sensibilities. The stuff about gender inequality are probably not as relevant. Every case is different though and I trust everyone to make decisions that sit well with their own set of values.
On April 28 2010 07:41 zulu_nation8 wrote: I think gender problems are a pretty sensitive issue everywhere. However people wanna interpret the lifestyle OP described is fine. One thing I don't like though is when people try to justify themselves. To say no one is "forcing" you to do anything is a very dumb argument. On the other hand to criticize a certain culture on the basis of higher values, for example gender equality, is probably just as stupid. I can't see any reasons to take pride in being a part of a sociological phenomenon generated by wage disparity, patriarchal values, conservative values and who knows what. You wanna get laid, there's no need to prepare a good conscience so you don't feel guilty afterward, at least that's how I thought about it. To use a bunch of bullshit reasons to justify your fulfilling of pleasures at the expense of others is pathetic. It's similar to people who feel bad for animals but can't stop eating meat, so they come up with reasons like oh I'm only gonna buy meat from places that treat their animals well. If we need morally pleasant reasoning to justify all of our actions then we might as well not act at all.
I don't know about booking clubs in Korea but in China there are definitely problems that violate some human rights sensibilities. The stuff about gender inequality are probably not as relevant. Every case is different though and I trust everyone to make decisions that sit well with their own set of values.
God damn I love that "If we need morally pleasant reasoning to justify all of our actions then we might as well not act at all. " line. That's a good fucking line there.
On April 28 2010 06:41 Shauni wrote: The sluts doesn't know what's best for them!
As someone mentioned earlier, it's not that uncommon for loan sharks to have agreements with different forms of prostitution to make the (as KudoJoe phrased it) 'stupid' girls who fall into the trap sex slaves. But whether or not the girls are being forced into this - consciously or unconsciously - is not the main issue here. Jibba already summed it up pretty well. The USA mind is for more individual responsibility where you take the consequences of your actions even if the society is not 'fair'. You have your social ladders and do everything in your power to climb - within the law. The reason why Foucault is upset is because the government here (unlike USA for example) consciously tries to protect people from these sorts of things; sexism, prostitution, gender unequality, judging people by physical appearance unconsciously, beauty fixation - almost everything described in this thread. The morals he grew up with and learned in school is a direct contradiction to everything in this thread. I'm not saying any method is superior, it's just that by arguing over the internet you need to realize that the morals are NOT universal, they change a lot from country to country - the cultural differences. It's something you always have to consider before mounting your horse to look down on other people with 'lesser' morals.
The will of South Korea as a whole obviously doesn't want to change this behaviour, as someone said earlier the whole thing is deeply rooted in the culture and people have a different view on using your body to your advantage (socially or economically), be it flirting, getting into clubs or even sex. The OP is definitely right in that it's not up to us to be condescending. If he wants to take advantage over how the society works then that's fine. Although I sense a slight glorification of the night life in Korea even though it's not as bad as in Rekrul's posts.
And I don't understand lilsusies posts at all. Taking pride in your country is fine, but concealing every 'problem' in the South Korean society (especially to the outside world) is one of the reasons why nothing ever changes... If there's is no attention, how are people going to consider these things more consciously? Isn't it very hypocritical saying you take pride in your country and still try to ignore certain aspects of the society? It reminds me of a South Korean movie I've seen Nabbeun namja/Bad Guy which is about the prostitution and gender roles. The movie was very provocative to the South Korean audience and it received attention in the press because the male actor was sexy and famous with some korean drama show meanwhile. The interesting thing is that even though the director put no moral values whatsoever in the movie, the audience interpreted it as trying to make South Korea look 'bad' in the eyes of the world. Sufficient to say the movie wasn't very highly praised in media...
And you also have to consider - why exactly is the prostitution, buying everything with money and plastics/superficial beauty fixation a minor taboo here? Why is it a 'hush hush' subject and who profits from the corruption and concealing?
Hey Shauni, do you happen to have a link to this movie? Sounds awesome!
On April 28 2010 07:41 zulu_nation8 wrote: I think gender problems are a pretty sensitive issue everywhere. However people wanna interpret the lifestyle OP described is fine. One thing I don't like though is when people try to justify themselves. To say no one is "forcing" you to do anything is a very dumb argument. On the other hand to criticize a certain culture on the basis of higher values, for example gender equality, is probably just as stupid. I can't see any reasons to take pride in being a part of a sociological phenomenon generated by wage disparity, patriarchal values, conservative values and who knows what. You wanna get laid, there's no need to prepare a good conscience so you don't feel guilty afterward, at least that's how I thought about it. To use a bunch of bullshit reasons to justify your fulfilling of pleasures at the expense of others is pathetic. It's similar to people who feel bad for animals but can't stop eating meat, so they come up with reasons like oh I'm only gonna buy meat from places that treat their animals well. If we need morally pleasant reasoning to justify all of our actions then we might as well not act at all.
I don't know about booking clubs in Korea but in China there are definitely problems that violate some human rights sensibilities. The stuff about gender inequality are probably not as relevant. Every case is different though and I trust everyone to make decisions that sit well with their own set of values.
God damn I love that "If we need morally pleasant reasoning to justify all of our actions then we might as well not act at all. " line. That's a good fucking line there.
Uh, actually I think that line is kind of bad... The entire point of morals is to help people stay true to principles they believe in. If you're consistently doing things without an ideal or goal in mind, then you're just a base animal living off of instinct or self-gratification.
In essence, if you don't have morally pleasant reasoning to justify an action, that implies you have morally UNpleasant reasoning. AKA, you're doing something unethical solely for the sake of self-benefit. In other words, selfish, ruthless, and mercenary behavior. There's a reason that's frowned upon. Zulu's line might sound cool in a tough guy, macho kind of way, but all it really says is people shouldn't care about doing the right thing and if we always did the right thing, then we'd end up doing nothing. A notion which I think is utter bollocks.
P.S. no disrespect to zulu. I just disagree with him on this point
StorkHwaiting: I believe you misinterpreted everything. Reread his post again please. The morally pleasant reasoning is used by people to justify their morally unjust (by their own interpretation) actions to get rid of the guilt and conscience. And he doesn't like it.
On April 28 2010 08:40 Shauni wrote: StorkHwaiting: I believe you misinterpreted everything. Reread his post again please. The morally pleasant reasoning is used by people to justify their morally unjust (by their own interpretation) actions to get rid of the guilt and conscience. And he doesn't like it.
OK, good point, Shauni. I didn't think of that. I guess I'll just wait for zulu to call me a dumbass so I can confirm that's what he meant. XD
On April 28 2010 07:41 zulu_nation8 wrote: I think gender problems are a pretty sensitive issue everywhere. However people wanna interpret the lifestyle OP described is fine. One thing I don't like though is when people try to justify themselves. To say no one is "forcing" you to do anything is a very dumb argument. On the other hand to criticize a certain culture on the basis of higher values, for example gender equality, is probably just as stupid. I can't see any reasons to take pride in being a part of a sociological phenomenon generated by wage disparity, patriarchal values, conservative values and who knows what. You wanna get laid, there's no need to prepare a good conscience so you don't feel guilty afterward, at least that's how I thought about it. To use a bunch of bullshit reasons to justify your fulfilling of pleasures at the expense of others is pathetic. It's similar to people who feel bad for animals but can't stop eating meat, so they come up with reasons like oh I'm only gonna buy meat from places that treat their animals well. If we need morally pleasant reasoning to justify all of our actions then we might as well not act at all.
I don't know about booking clubs in Korea but in China there are definitely problems that violate some human rights sensibilities. The stuff about gender inequality are probably not as relevant. Every case is different though and I trust everyone to make decisions that sit well with their own set of values.
God damn I love that "If we need morally pleasant reasoning to justify all of our actions then we might as well not act at all. " line. That's a good fucking line there.
Uh, actually I think that line is kind of bad... The entire point of morals is to help people stay true to principles they believe in. If you're consistently doing things without an ideal or goal in mind, then you're just a base animal living off of instinct or self-gratification.
In essence, if you don't have morally pleasant reasoning to justify an action, that implies you have morally UNpleasant reasoning. AKA, you're doing something unethical solely for the sake of self-benefit. In other words, selfish, ruthless, and mercenary behavior. There's a reason that's frowned upon. Zulu's line might sound cool in a tough guy, macho kind of way, but all it really says is people shouldn't care about doing the right thing and if we always did the right thing, then we'd end up doing nothing. A notion which I think is utter bollocks.
P.S. no disrespect to zulu. I just disagree with him on this point
Morals don't come into play with every decision a person makes. It's not all clear cut and it's not black and white. Just because you're not letting your moral compass guide you at all times doesn't mean you're living some morally unjust life. That's just plain silly. It also has nothing to do with being tough at all. It's more along the lines of people abusing other's morals to push theirs on others. Like some over the top hippy vegans. Yeah, it sounds morally good, but there are many down sides to living that life style.
On April 28 2010 07:41 zulu_nation8 wrote: I think gender problems are a pretty sensitive issue everywhere. However people wanna interpret the lifestyle OP described is fine. One thing I don't like though is when people try to justify themselves. To say no one is "forcing" you to do anything is a very dumb argument. On the other hand to criticize a certain culture on the basis of higher values, for example gender equality, is probably just as stupid. I can't see any reasons to take pride in being a part of a sociological phenomenon generated by wage disparity, patriarchal values, conservative values and who knows what. You wanna get laid, there's no need to prepare a good conscience so you don't feel guilty afterward. To use a bunch of bullshit reasons to justify your fulfilling of pleasures at the expense of others is pathetic. It's similar to people who feel bad for animals but can't stop eating meat, so they come up with reasons like oh I'm only gonna buy meat from places that treat their animals well. If we need morally pleasant reasoning to justify all of our actions then we might as well not act at all.
I don't know about booking clubs in Korea but in China there are definitely problems that violate some human rights sensibilities. The stuff about gender inequality are probably not as relevant. Every case is different though and I trust everyone to make decisions that sit well with their own set of values.
Or "People are hypocrites, welcome to the real world."
On April 28 2010 07:41 zulu_nation8 wrote: I think gender problems are a pretty sensitive issue everywhere. However people wanna interpret the lifestyle OP described is fine. One thing I don't like though is when people try to justify themselves. To say no one is "forcing" you to do anything is a very dumb argument. On the other hand to criticize a certain culture on the basis of higher values, for example gender equality, is probably just as stupid. I can't see any reasons to take pride in being a part of a sociological phenomenon generated by wage disparity, patriarchal values, conservative values and who knows what. You wanna get laid, there's no need to prepare a good conscience so you don't feel guilty afterward, at least that's how I thought about it. To use a bunch of bullshit reasons to justify your fulfilling of pleasures at the expense of others is pathetic. It's similar to people who feel bad for animals but can't stop eating meat, so they come up with reasons like oh I'm only gonna buy meat from places that treat their animals well. If we need morally pleasant reasoning to justify all of our actions then we might as well not act at all.
I don't know about booking clubs in Korea but in China there are definitely problems that violate some human rights sensibilities. The stuff about gender inequality are probably not as relevant. Every case is different though and I trust everyone to make decisions that sit well with their own set of values.
God damn I love that "If we need morally pleasant reasoning to justify all of our actions then we might as well not act at all. " line. That's a good fucking line there.
Uh, actually I think that line is kind of bad... The entire point of morals is to help people stay true to principles they believe in. If you're consistently doing things without an ideal or goal in mind, then you're just a base animal living off of instinct or self-gratification.
In essence, if you don't have morally pleasant reasoning to justify an action, that implies you have morally UNpleasant reasoning. AKA, you're doing something unethical solely for the sake of self-benefit. In other words, selfish, ruthless, and mercenary behavior. There's a reason that's frowned upon. Zulu's line might sound cool in a tough guy, macho kind of way, but all it really says is people shouldn't care about doing the right thing and if we always did the right thing, then we'd end up doing nothing. A notion which I think is utter bollocks.
P.S. no disrespect to zulu. I just disagree with him on this point
Morals don't come into play with every decision a person makes. It's not all clear cut and it's not black and white. Just because you're not letting your moral compass guide you at all times doesn't mean you're living some morally unjust life. That's just plain silly. It also has nothing to do with being tough at all. It's more along the lines of people abusing other's morals to push theirs on others. Like some over the top hippy vegans. Yeah, it sounds morally good, but there are many down sides to living that life style.
You threw a lot of positions out there and didn't really back up any of them with content. Maybe you have some good reasons for your position, but so far you haven't stated any of them. You've merely said, I disagree because you're silly, which quite honestly is a sucky post.
You need to do better than saying "people abuse other morals to push theirs" (which, quite frankly, doesn't make any sense) and then somehow alluding that to vegans have downsides too.
I don't want to derail the thread, though. I just think it's rubbish to say living without a moral compass is ok. As humans, we have the potential for a lot more than base survival and physical gratification. To waste that potential as a slave to one's senses is just that: a waste. As Aristostle said, "the unexamined life is not worth living." And tonight, nobody ever said every single choice in life needs to be some sort of moralistic stand. Zulu made an extreme statement when he said that if morals were a necessary consideration for our actions, we might as well just not bother doing anything at all, which I think is straight up wrong. It doesn't have to be an extreme of always morals or never morals, but I do think morals are an essential part of life.
Well, the point I was making was completely general. You on the other hand want to start a debate which I do not. Also, what I said about the vegans was an analogy and nothing more. Don't nit-pick where it doesn't need to be nit-picked.
On April 28 2010 11:54 tonight wrote: Well, the point I was making was completely general. You on the other hand want to start a debate which I do not. Also, what I said about the vegans was an analogy and nothing more. Don't nit-pick where it doesn't need to be nit-picked.
Good day.
Your point wasn't general, it was specifically saying that you think it's ridiculous to apply morals to every decision. That's a defined stance. Then you make an ill-fitting analogy, with language that obviously implies you're trying to make a point with it, and later backtrack that it's nothing more than an unrelated analogy.
I'm sorry, but if I pissed on a guy's leg, then told him I was merely relieving myself and no insult was intended, somehow I doubt he would believe me. Kind of like how I'm not really buying what you're selling.
Socrates not Aristotle said "the unexamined life is not worth living" in the Apology. Socrates had very ill-conceived notions of what values are. I wouldn't listen to anything he says.
I didnt finish the reading the whole article. After reading it 1/3 of it, its all the same in someway or another for most Asian country. Really, I dont think this things effect the Korea image in me one bit. 'Cos it exist everywhere I go. In Vietnam we have somewhat the same thing, China as well. I have to admit I love the "Room salon" the most, usually go there with some of my buddies, and yeah it makes you feel good. We all have gf but sometime we just go there to be served and believe me your gf can never obey like girls in these salon do. We dont have sex with them afterward, just there to enjoy the diffirence kind of entertainment. But trying to get them for free afterward is very FUN
On April 28 2010 12:45 zulu_nation8 wrote: Socrates not Aristotle said "the unexamined life is not worth living" in the Apology. Socrates had very ill-conceived notions of what values are. I wouldn't listen to anything he says.
Shit, you're right. I knew that too :-\. Wonder why I wrote Aristotle. I don't know enough about the other things he's said, but I've always liked that quote. Even if he turned out to be a cannibal child molestor, I think that line still has a lot of wisdom.
On April 28 2010 11:54 tonight wrote: Well, the point I was making was completely general. You on the other hand want to start a debate which I do not. Also, what I said about the vegans was an analogy and nothing more. Don't nit-pick where it doesn't need to be nit-picked.
Good day.
Your point wasn't general, it was specifically saying that you think it's ridiculous to apply morals to every decision. That's a defined stance. Then you make an ill-fitting analogy, with language that obviously implies you're trying to make a point with it, and later backtrack that it's nothing more than an unrelated analogy.
I'm sorry, but if I pissed on a guy's leg, then told him I was merely relieving myself and no insult was intended, somehow I doubt he would believe me. Kind of like how I'm not really buying what you're selling.
Once again. I'm not having a debate with you so drop it. I also didn't say anything was ridiculous and it wasn't at all specific. Really I don't give two shits, but you seem to be taking this personal or something. Stop dissecting my posts because I don't give a shit about this conversation or what you think about morals or even what you think I think about them. So, point I'm making is: stop quoting my posts and saying shit.
On April 28 2010 13:10 Caphe wrote: I didnt finish the reading the whole article. After reading it 1/3 of it, its all the same in someway or another for most Asian country. Really, I dont think this things effect the Korea image in me one bit. 'Cos it exist everywhere I go. In Vietnam we have somewhat the same thing, China as well. I have to admit I love the "Room salon" the most, usually go there with some of my buddies, and yeah it makes you feel good. We all have gf but sometime we just go there to be served and believe me your gf can never obey like girls in these salon do. We dont have sex with them afterward, just there to enjoy the diffirence kind of entertainment. But trying to get them for free afterward is very FUN
I wish countries would do away with the hypocrisy of having prostitution illegal. Criminalizing prostitution has never stopped it from occurring. I'm glad that in NZ now prostitution has been legalized. Criminalized prostitution only drives it underground thus empowering pimps to exploit women more.
On April 29 2010 14:43 tomatriedes wrote: I wish countries would do away with the hypocrisy of having prostitution illegal. Criminalizing prostitution has never stopped it from occurring. I'm glad that in NZ now prostitution has been legalized. Criminalized prostitution only drives it underground thus empowering pimps to exploit women more.
On April 26 2010 15:16 lilsusie wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about having a post like this out in the open. I know that people are aware (Rek mentions plenty of times of his nights out) but at the same time, I'm not sure if I want people to have this image of Korea to be this raunchy, underground nasty-nasty thing, complete with whores. Don't get me wrong, I know it's a part of the culture but not exactly the reputation that this country needs to get tourists. =/
Money can buy anything in this country. I know it's true in most countries too but Korea is just so blatantly immoral sometimes.
Here's a question for you, OP, why did you decide to post this on our forums at all?
I believe that people reading it understand that this is only the dirty part of Korea. I could make a beautiful post about my Korean culture and all our beautiful tourist spots and foods. Maybe I'll do that next! Why did I decide to post it? Well I see blogs everywhere about people going to Korea so they may as well understand what they might possibly want to try out.
I believe in the freedom of information.
Yes, freedom of information, but you also realize that TL isn't the place for people to say "OMG I'm going to Korea, I'm totally gonna blow 5k dollars on a night out with beautiful women!" (Well, maybe a few guys can but most are high school/college students who are poor) And those who CAN spend that much... already have. And blogged about it.
Don't assume on the internet that people will take this as "only the dirty part" of Korea. It's a part of Korea that most Koreans are not proud of, thus not really something that you need to publicly put into light. =/ Those are my 2 cents.
If it's something that most Korean's aren't proud of why does the government do nothing to stop any of it? Why do almost all korean males partake in it in one way or another? If you were unaware in many areas they have police guarding the perimeter of the red light districts! It's just the way it is and me sharing this information with a gaming website isn't going to do anything other than inform.
If anything, the korean way of disliking something but never having the balls to bring it out in the open is exactly why change for the better doesn't happen.
Perhaps I'll run for president of Korea! O wait I'm a USA citizen damn.
Perhaps this south park episode would address the issue as to why rich and powerful men want to have sex with many attractive women...
It's because money turns rich people into chimpanzees with overactive sex drives?!
And this is all due to an alien wizard living in Independence Hall?
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
...
You're a fucking dumbass, Chill.
It's funny how you think I'm retarded when in fact you don't even understand what I'm talking about because you lack the knowledge needed. You're an engineer, right? I don't know shit about engineering but your behavior would be like me telling you something ridiculous, 3:rd grade kind of stupid about a subject you know alot about.
Seriously, you need to drop your friggin' attitude. You talk down everyone on the forums with your one-liners thinking you're some internet god. Yeah, maybe you are on TL.net but get a clue man, you are being pretty negative pretty much all of the time the recent year or whatever.
I can type whatever I want in response to a forum post as long as I keep it civil and don't break any rules. So don't YOU come here and tell me what I can and can not do.
PS. Also guys, wtf my first language isn't english so I can't type my thoughts out exactly like an english-speaking person would do. Especially academic language so gimme a break :/ I've studied at university for almost 5 years now and I'm a sociology/psychology major.
User was banned for this post.
Why am I not surprised that he's a sociology major?
I think my view of that field of study has become too heavily tainted by dumbasses like this fellow here who spend all their time supposedly studying people and yet are completely unable of viewing the world from an alien perspective? [sarcasm]But of course we know he must be right about everything because he spent five years studying sociology![/sarcasm]
Hey, we're not all idiots. I'm here in Korea teaching English after graduating with a degree in sociology. All the jobs in the US sucked (sushi chef, legal assistant, chess coach--okay well, that one was awesome) and now I get paid about $2000 a month AFTER they cover my rent.
Which means I can go to all the anmas I w...
Just kidding. I haven't yet, but I've been thinking about trying it out. I feel some kind of moral obligation to not teach middle school kids and do all the fun things for guys at the same time, though. Maybe when I'm on vacation or something.
On June 17 2010 16:53 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Hey, we're not all idiots. I'm here in Korea teaching English after graduating with a degree in sociology. All the jobs in the US sucked (sushi chef, legal assistant, chess coach--okay well, that one was awesome) and now I get paid about $2000 a month AFTER they cover my rent.
Which means I can go to all the anmas I w...
Just kidding. I haven't yet, but I've been thinking about trying it out. I feel some kind of moral obligation to not teach middle school kids and do all the fun things for guys at the same time, though. Maybe when I'm on vacation or something.
obligatory "did you really need to bump this?" post.
Guy has an update about Korea. Guy correctly posts update in an existing thread about Korea. TL zealots incorrectly jump on it. Chill gets annoyed sending out warnings.
Its a 2 week old bump, its not the end of the world...in fact I wouldn't have been able to read this if it weren't for the bump and I'm kinda glad that I did get insight and detail into this part of the culture.
I'm not sure what to think of it though to be honest, I do think some people are blowing the scale of these establishments out of proportion, its like going out to a club or something in america, there are a lot of peopel that don't do it, there are people who do it on occasion for fun, and there are people who have become somewhat addicted to it.
What I can say though is, now every Saturday when I go to korean bbq in koreatown in virginia lol, the 'spa' at the end of the plaza is definitely not a 'spa' haha.
If going to these type of things doesn't suit your lifestyle than so be it, right? But some people like it, just like some people love to go clubbing 3 days a week, its not my cup of tea but if someone wants to do it let them.
The amount of bans and warnings on this thread is getting pretty funny though.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
...
You're a fucking dumbass, Chill.
It's funny how you think I'm retarded when in fact you don't even understand what I'm talking about because you lack the knowledge needed. You're an engineer, right? I don't know shit about engineering but your behavior would be like me telling you something ridiculous, 3:rd grade kind of stupid about a subject you know alot about.
Seriously, you need to drop your friggin' attitude. You talk down everyone on the forums with your one-liners thinking you're some internet god. Yeah, maybe you are on TL.net but get a clue man, you are being pretty negative pretty much all of the time the recent year or whatever.
I can type whatever I want in response to a forum post as long as I keep it civil and don't break any rules. So don't YOU come here and tell me what I can and can not do.
PS. Also guys, wtf my first language isn't english so I can't type my thoughts out exactly like an english-speaking person would do. Especially academic language so gimme a break :/ I've studied at university for almost 5 years now and I'm a sociology/psychology major.
User was banned for this post.
Second comment w/e: I don't wana get into too much debate here but it really bugs me that a lot of mods on this site ban people cuz they're butthurt or upset over a comment. I know that no one here has a "right" to say what they want, but IMO mods should act in a more dignified manner when dealing with rude people. Especially people who have obviously spent a lot of time on TL.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
...
You're a fucking dumbass, Chill.
It's funny how you think I'm retarded when in fact you don't even understand what I'm talking about because you lack the knowledge needed. You're an engineer, right? I don't know shit about engineering but your behavior would be like me telling you something ridiculous, 3:rd grade kind of stupid about a subject you know alot about.
Seriously, you need to drop your friggin' attitude. You talk down everyone on the forums with your one-liners thinking you're some internet god. Yeah, maybe you are on TL.net but get a clue man, you are being pretty negative pretty much all of the time the recent year or whatever.
I can type whatever I want in response to a forum post as long as I keep it civil and don't break any rules. So don't YOU come here and tell me what I can and can not do.
PS. Also guys, wtf my first language isn't english so I can't type my thoughts out exactly like an english-speaking person would do. Especially academic language so gimme a break :/ I've studied at university for almost 5 years now and I'm a sociology/psychology major.
User was banned for this post.
Second comment w/e: I don't wana get into too much debate here but it really bugs me that a lot of mods on this site ban people cuz they're butthurt or upset over a comment. I know that no one here has a "right" to say what they want, but IMO mods should act in a more dignified manner when dealing with rude people. Especially people who have obviously spent a lot of time on TL.
Post stuff like this to website feedback please. No long term poster is banned for 1 post only, This was just the one post to seal the deal, but he had it coming long before. In fact, he was a previously banned user and that is his second or third account that has been permanently banned.
Well I'm glad this did get bumped because it was a great ***ing read. Too bad the thread go so off topic but it was nice to see Foucault get banned. 5/5
Not sure if anyone already mentioned it but if you're in Europe and don't want to miss on anything OP said (especially escorts and some of the most beautiful girls you'll ever see) you can come to Italy, it's pretty much the same except that the whorehouses are exclusive to the chinese mafia...
On June 20 2010 07:44 r33k wrote: Not sure if anyone already mentioned it but if you're in Europe and don't want to miss on anything OP said (especially escorts and some of the most beautiful girls you'll ever see) you can come to Italy, it's pretty much the same except that the whorehouses are exclusive to the chinese mafia...
Hmm, Chinese mafia in Italy. You guys are slipping.
On June 20 2010 07:44 r33k wrote: Not sure if anyone already mentioned it but if you're in Europe and don't want to miss on anything OP said (especially escorts and some of the most beautiful girls you'll ever see) you can come to Italy, it's pretty much the same except that the whorehouses are exclusive to the chinese mafia...
Hmm, Chinese mafia in Italy. You guys are slipping.
What I don't understand is why lilsusie seems to dislike the fact that the OP exists. Shining some light on what you consider to be immoral or wrong is a good thing. Ignoring the elephant in the room is defeat.
On June 23 2010 23:11 BottleAbuser wrote: What I don't understand is why lilsusie seems to dislike the fact that the OP exists. Shining some light on what you consider to be immoral or wrong is a good thing. Ignoring the elephant in the room is defeat.
On April 27 2010 05:36 Foucault wrote: All I'm saying is that men definately seem to be the norm in Korea.
What the hell does this sentence mean?
What the hell can it possibly mean?
It's a very male oriented society it seems. Women are there to please
Maybe you meant "women pleasing men definitely seem to be the norm in Korea (World?)."
You have to understand that most of these girls do this because they choose to. Few are forced but it's hey, it's life. Sweden has really hot girls by the way. Thumbs up!
Yeah I know but "forced" becomes kind of vague considering that most of us are heavily molded into who we are by society and the gender roles we assume. So if it's a "normal" thing for women to work clubs, you're choices as a woman are heavily affected by this. Same for male stuff, whatever it is.
lol yes we do and these days I see alot of skirts instead of pants. yum
Do you still not understand what I am trying to say...girls in clubs/night clubs don't work there. They are just regular patrons who like getting booked and having fun with guys. What is so damn sexist about that?
I think you're not understanding him; he's staying true to Foucault. Consent doesn't mean something is or isn't exploitative. There's more subtle ways that people are coerced, such as a life long impression of body image or something like that. I think an example that makes sense is the average pro SC player. They're choosing to do it, because I'd imagine the allure is pretty difficult to resist if you're young and good at it, but they're still being exploited in a stressful, low paying and very restrictive job, and they might not even realize it.
I think it's somewhat pretentious to tell adults that they're being manipulated or assume that they're not aware of the situation, like he's doing. It'd be better to ask what kinds of alternatives are available to women/men who don't want to do that sort of thing, and if those are widely accepted.
Ok, lol. But this isn't the kind of subtle inference you make by reading a fucking forum post. To infer this level of detail about a culture you aren't part of is just retarded.
...
You're a fucking dumbass, Chill.
It's funny how you think I'm retarded when in fact you don't even understand what I'm talking about because you lack the knowledge needed. You're an engineer, right? I don't know shit about engineering but your behavior would be like me telling you something ridiculous, 3:rd grade kind of stupid about a subject you know alot about.
Seriously, you need to drop your friggin' attitude. You talk down everyone on the forums with your one-liners thinking you're some internet god. Yeah, maybe you are on TL.net but get a clue man, you are being pretty negative pretty much all of the time the recent year or whatever.
I can type whatever I want in response to a forum post as long as I keep it civil and don't break any rules. So don't YOU come here and tell me what I can and can not do.
PS. Also guys, wtf my first language isn't english so I can't type my thoughts out exactly like an english-speaking person would do. Especially academic language so gimme a break :/ I've studied at university for almost 5 years now and I'm a sociology/psychology major.
User was banned for this post.
Second comment w/e: I don't wana get into too much debate here but it really bugs me that a lot of mods on this site ban people cuz they're butthurt or upset over a comment.
Can you cite examples? I can think of almost no examples of this happening where the ban isn't reversed.
On April 26 2010 15:52 Ack1027 wrote: So....you love your girlfriend but you fuck ee cha girls cuz it would be unprofessional to refuse?
In Korean culture, refusing your host is a VERY big nono. It's borderline insulting. And people who can afford to go to those places are not people you want to be insulting. Especially in a corporate/business scenario.
I am Korean, but thanks for the lesson. I'm sure he's thinking about his girlfriend and how respectful and polite he's being while he fucks whores.
I love how you come in here with no knowledge about the real world and try to act like you are 'above' someone for whatever reason. You all have some convoluted ideal of the way a relationship should be and if it's not exactly like that the person causing the difference is evil or something. You say you're Korean but you must have grown up in USA or something to be talking like this.
In the real world, relationships aren't perfect. People cheat all the time on eachother or 'almost' cheat. Me having to do it sometimes due to my livelihood does not make me evil. It's a double-edged sword for me. I physically enjoy it at the time but I also wish deep down emotionally that I didn't have to do it for the sake of my job. Now you might argue that if I were a real man that I'd refuse to do it and find other work, but in the real world this isn't realistic at all. I value my job and position and if I have to stick my dick into a beautiful woman from time to time on one of my client's expense then I'll do it and not feel too bad about it.
If you really think about it: As long as I am very cautious with using protection and getting STD tested, which I am, and as long as my girlfriend never finds out no harm can ever come to anything. Infact only good can come from it. I am making good cash for us and I am also made a happy man for an hour from time to time.
The difference between cheaters in the normal world is that they are people like married men who fall in love with a secret lover and it retracts from their relationships. Or boyfriends who start treating their girlfriends like shit because they like a new girl better but they also wanna be getting laid by both so he stays with with both. Thats not what I'm doing at all.
I'm merely taking one for the team.
really? like lilsusie said, if sh'e s "korean korean" she would sadly not mind at all i mean really, i think you're missing the option where you can tell her and if shes not okay with it, break up. you could have told her that this was something you had to do when you started, and if she isn't going to be okay with it, you could end things right now, because clearly job> her. so yeah i refuse to believe this is acceptable in any culture, and i think its easier for me to just assume you have a serious character flaw that lead you to never being able to bring this up to her. I mean really, a guy who fucks girls on a regular basis shouldn't have a girlfriend IMO, better for both him and her, sounds pretty logical to me. Basically, im going to need a lot more convincing then one post if you want to even bother with me :D
On June 23 2010 23:11 BottleAbuser wrote: What I don't understand is why lilsusie seems to dislike the fact that the OP exists. Shining some light on what you consider to be immoral or wrong is a good thing. Ignoring the elephant in the room is defeat.
lilsusie dislikes everything. Including you.
wait do you dislike bottle abusers or the poster? or i guess both ahh random mind fuck of randomness. eh.
On June 25 2010 13:15 Djzapz wrote: Interesting... Whatever happened to having to go to war and pillaging towns to get laid with girls who don't really feel like it...
That still happens, apparently. I hear about it happening in Afghanistan and Iraq sometimes, but when I hear about it it's usually the story of "some american soldier got caught raping so-and-so, so now we're arresting him" type of thing. That leads me to believe it's happening more than we're aware of.
That said, I feel that the prostitution "business" isn't necessarily sexist when you consider that there are also similar "houses" for females to partake in. However, I believe these institutions are largely established either directly or indirectly by the male population that typically forms the leadership and ownership class of any given country. I realize that females are gaining popularity on that front, in terms of leading countries, but at present it is largely dominated by males, and therefore society is influenced by wealthymale desires.
..even though I've experienced all this I'm not some big whoring freak. I have a girlfriend which I love and loves me and part of loving her means not ever letting her find out about what my job forces me to do sometimes. Good thing she doesn't read forums nor does she speak english hehe
You know, I think out of all the people in this thread, I might be the only person to not actually enjoy these kinds of places. Paying women a ton of money to be my 'friend' for a couple of hours is not really the kind of fun I like having. This superficial relationship would drive me insane. Infact I can't think of a more superficial relationship than paying a women to be your friend. At least if you go to a hooker you're just paying to use her body and you leave after that, no lying or pretending involved. But either way I would never go to these kinds of places. I'd rather go to the movies, watch a sc game or do something normal like the boring ass normal person I am.
Wow, I read this because of the other thread which bumped this thread..
Just some points on some key things in the thread...
Korea is a very extreme culture, there is this side, where someone in Dancewithdevil's job and making 8k a month in korea is really the extreme case. A lot of what Dancewithdevil is accurate in what he writes, but there are very few Koreans who actually could confirm that all to the degree that he has written and yes, its quite accurate via the prices he quotes.
Most Koreans who are not affluent will maybe go to an affluent night club 3 times in their life, if even that, and they will never get to step inside a 10pro or .5 place; never.
The entry wage for someone at a great company like Samsung is only 2.1k a month. Of course this goes up some what, but if you are making 5k a month in Korea, you're pretty up there (taxes are extremely low), but most people will never make more that 2.6-3k a month, never. No aside from doctors, professionals, accountants and from wealthy families or chaebol executives or language school owners, the majority of Korean can't ever dream of making 8k a month.
The average age of the regular clients at a real 10 pro room salon is about late 40's early 50's, cause its that damn expenses. Again, DancewiththeDevil is in a very unique situation. The only way that most of you visiting Korea will ever see the inside of one of these places is if Dancewiththedevil treats you with his clients or if Rekrul has pity on you or really likes you, personally I'll buy you some beers, lots of beer and soju ^^.
In terms of the girls, for the lower end places, you'd be surprised how many are doing it because of the 'loan sharks' and how they are locked into it because they wanted to help their family. In Korea, we do not have a strong consumer lending system, easy to get credit cards and bank loans for homes in high resell areas, but these loans are based on short term payments and high % of deposits. Korea is like this, they don't have 20 year mortgages, while the taxes are low, there are a lot of 10-50k lump payments for housing deposits, cars, marriage costs.
You can't believe how difficult it is to live in Korea if you are not affluent and your parents do not own their own house. If your parents were to make a single money mistake or someone was to have an illness in the family, the stress on your parents to provide for you is crazy as it is your parent's obligations to take care of the children until marriage (or else you won't be able to marry at our above your status). Now a lot of lower income families can't get access to the banks for large payment sums, its not like in the US where you borrow 10-20k, if they want to get out the shitter, they will likely borrow 100-200k in order to buy a property and try to flip it. So, they don't tell their kids they did this and if the investment is fucked, they start to borrow money between loan sharks to pay for the interest.
Thus steps in the daughter who takes on a loan of her own and assists to pay off the loan on behalf of their family which nearly 100% done in secret from her parents. This is not an isolated case, and I know a lot of you will call bs on it, but I'd say, most native Koreans and American Koreans will have a narrow range of experience and honestly won't be able to confirm it, but is quite prevalent. I don't have statistics on it, but its spoken and confirmed enough for me to say so. Now the terms of the deal obviously are totally fucked, and so that's how it goes. And these girls will be working on all different levels.
I work with casinos, a lot of casinos all across Asia from Macau, Singapore to Aus. One Korean executive of Walkerhill has a baby daughter and I say to him, congratulations and he says to me, 'you're so lucky you don't have a daughter' and I'm like 'what's wrong with a daughter, this is the modern time' and he's like, 'oh I know, that's not what I meant, I love her so much and that is the problem, I can't enjoy myself at these girly places now, all I can think about is my daughter and what these girls go through now, its completely destroyed my recreation' and I'm like, 'uh ok, I'll keep that in mind...'
But when I'm in Korea, I don't tell people that I work with casinos or anything, I just say I work overseas or they know I was a consultant at PwC and left for a UK company. Because, again, this isn't the norm of a lot of Koreans and for the most part, someone at DancewiththeDevil position, this really is worked related, even at 8k a month, its not possible to do this every week. And its not something that many Korean men would mention openly and it's not like we are all sex fiends. Unless it's work related a lot of men need to pay for their kids afterschool tuition and most of their money is managed by their wife. NOT TO SAY THAT ITS NOT A THRIVING 24/7 THING. It is, but with 12 M population in Seoul, there can be this level of activity, but I'd say the majority of Korea guys like to simply get drunk with the guys. My normal night out with close friends back in university would be going for drinks from 7pm to 4 am then going to a man's only bathing house, go to the sauna and pass out in the sleep couch looking for mat with 100 other drunk snoring guys, then wake up at 10am take a sauna again and go to class.
I understand LilSusie point as well, because DancewiththeDevil is so damn accurate and viseral in his descriptions and while some people will take it as just that is how Korea is. Well, its not, but it also is part of the extreme. Actually what is super uber popular is mountain trail hiking and even Seoul has tonnes of them and its super fun, for older people, but breath taking, but while a lot of people in Korea hike (I mean a lot, more than go to ama), it's again just a part of the Korean mentality of being part of nature while living in the most urban place in world and having to go back to your home town twice a year when nearly 45% of the entire population of Korea lives nearby Seoul, resulting in 15 hour road trips in a country smaller than Michigan.
There is an old saying about Korea, Japan and China, in a comparison about the character. In China, people are ONE, one group, one people regardless of differences; In Japan: harmony, we live on a freaking small island, and we are bound by our land's own boarders most of the time, lets make the best of it: and in Korea: Extreme, extremely kind/angry, honest/deceitful, pure/sexual and always emotional and always lots of fun, if we're friends ^^ Again, a lot of people will say, Korea is the same like everywhere else, but I'll say, when your people are defined by the trait, extreme, trust me, it really is like that, you'll have these sexual options and sexy kittens running around catching the same bus as attractive 30 year old Christian virgin ladies still waiting for the right guy to marry.
i cant believe this was bumped, mad props to whoever initially bumped it
and foucault definitely made this thread more interesting to read. lols.
bleh i wanna go back to korea even more now. i keep finding reasons to go back there but never a reason why i wouldnt wanna go back. T_T i need moneyyyyyyyy
What MightyAtom said, especially the last sentence. I mean, I'm white and not a vet, but he's right. He also said I have "eye sense" so I feel okay replying ...hah.
You can go to a booking and just have a good time and not get in trouble. It's really up to you whether or not you take some girl home when they are waiting around for it. Moreover, it's up to you and what you make of this place on all fronts. Though, I could easily see many people getting worn down and succumbing to a lot of different things over time.
I know girls who've never been to a club (just a dance club) all the way to dudes who frequent 노래방's with hired ho's working the rooms. Personally, the former seem more human to me. The best times I've had in this country is with friends at pubs, losing track of time verbally bashing each other and making new friends. Nothing can replace relationship, which is one thing the night scene basically lacks, aside from you going with your friends.
Anyway, I vote to have as much fun as you can without sacrificing your character, like we should anywhere else on earth.
On August 10 2010 12:06 JiYan wrote: iono if this is the right place to put it, but its worth mentioning that SC2 is 60$ and itll last a lot longer o_o
I thought it was an interesting read, and in all fairness the OP did give a fair warning about what the post was about. If people don't want to read it, they just have to stop after the first paragraph.
That was one of the best read i had on TL.net ! you write so nice and i cant stop reading. you should post more blogs and i would love to read some funny stories. Now i think that i know so much about Soul :D Just need to learn Korean.
What a thread :o I just read like first 4 pages and wow. I never imagined it was this corrupt. Obviously every country has a bit of corruption but I didn't expect it in Korea to this extent. Good thing lilsusie gave her opinion and showed her view so I can actually read how girls think about this in Korea.
I sincerely believed something on this scale didn't happen in Korea and thought it was all e-sports :<
On January 17 2011 23:28 shannn wrote:I sincerely believed something on this scale didn't happen in Korea and thought it was all e-sports :<
I don't understand why people still think like this.. Korea is not all about E-Sports.. its actually a really REALLY small part of Korea. In reality, it's really looked down upon by the general masses.
On January 17 2011 23:28 shannn wrote:I sincerely believed something on this scale didn't happen in Korea and thought it was all e-sports :<
I don't understand why people still think like this.. Korea is not all about E-Sports.. its actually a really REALLY small part of Korea. In reality, it's really looked down upon by the general masses.
I was a bit overdramatizing it if you failed to notice the sarcasm but I was trying to make my point that I didn't really see the other side of Korea like the OP has explained. Did expect it happens like it is in Holland (but here it's legal) but not on how it goes in Korea how the OP explained it which I think was unnatural (cultural difference).
Do you know what shocks me about this story? My girlfriend is an avid fan of Kpop and Korean Dramas and sometimes, I watch or listen to it with her, and those kind of medias always made me feel like Korea was really "clean" because they usually try to represent the idols like being really, really innocent. I guess I was totally wrong, Korea is like the rest of the world, the oldest job in the world is very present. I really feel dumb now, for having thought the sex industry was only enormous in America. Whores are everywhere and it's not because a culture is different that they don't have whores.
so many people on this forum are uptight internet intellectuals
boys like girls, girls like boys, both like sex
men like their women hot, women like their men cool, funny, rich, and hot
if you think men and women getting together is the dark part of life i feel sorry for you because thats one of the best things that our short lifespan has to offer and there are real horrible things going on besides men and women having fun
its some kind of serious superiority complex or deep down insecurity to look down on people who openly admit they are attracted to the opposite sex
I don't think it's sex that bothers people, opsayo. It's the meaninglessness of the sex. When sex becomes robotic and people stop having intimate connections with each other, we are dehumanized.
Clubs are kind of like an industrialized version of sex. I don't think it's so bad to question that.
attaching such morality and purpose to sex is too romantic for me
sure it can be meaningful but its also one of life's pleasures, our generation grew up watching too many disney movies and reading romantic novels and need to get back into reality
but then again thats why they live their lives on the internet and aren't getting out there
whats wrong with industrialized sex exactly? who said our lives have to play out like sleeping beauty?
people need to spend less time telling other people how to live their lives and start living their own
On January 19 2011 07:55 opsayo wrote: attaching such morality and purpose to sex is too romantic for me
sure it can be meaningful but its also one of life's pleasures, our generation grew up watching too many disney movies and reading romantic novels and need to get back into reality
but then again thats why they live their lives on the internet and aren't getting out there
whats wrong with industrialized sex exactly? who said our lives have to play out like sleeping beauty?
people need to spend less time telling other people how to live their lives and start living their own
It's not that extreme, i.e. sleeping beauty. If you are interested in sex as a two-way concept, where the couple wants to get each other off and not just themselves, then there is a level of trust involved that leads to a distaste for the industrialization of a very personal experience. if you just want to get off, great, have fun. Don't be surprised when people full of empathy express disgust, concern, or even outright elitism on the subject though - it's the nature of the beast.
It leaves me somewhat sad and I don't know why. I guess I am just naive and from a different culture but the booking really gets to me. It's been stated over and over in this thread that the girls know what they get themselves into and it's as much fun for them but still, the concept makes me sad. I don't understand how the concept cannot seem male chauvinistic to everyone else, when it so clearly is to me. It's not the prostitution that troubles me (I am an avid spokesman for legalized prostitution - but that's a different topic) but rather the way a culture forces acceptance of a male affirming social concept. (God that sounds pretentious but I can't quite put words to the feeling)
This blog, coupled with the picture painted by MightyAtom and tales of the wide spread of plastic surgery among women gives me a, hopefully, skewed picture of S.Korea. I don't think a culture that had been female dominated for 3000 years would look like this (I'm not saying it would be any "better"). Sure, you can say that plastic surgery is voluntary and so is getting booked, but I just feel that maybe it isn't.
On March 09 2011 18:44 Cuddle wrote: A very interesting read. Thanks for sharing!
It leaves me somewhat sad and I don't know why. I guess I am just naive and from a different culture but the booking really gets to me. It's been stated over and over in this thread that the girls know what they get themselves into and it's as much fun for them but still, the concept makes me sad. I don't understand how the concept cannot seem male chauvinistic to everyone else, when it so clearly is to me. It's not the prostitution that troubles me (I am an avid spokesman for legalized prostitution - but that's a different topic) but rather the way a culture forces acceptance of a male affirming social concept. (God that sounds pretentious but I can't quite put words to the feeling)
This blog, coupled with the picture painted by MightyAtom and tales of the wide spread of plastic surgery among women gives me a, hopefully, skewed picture of S.Korea. I don't think a culture that had been female dominated for 3000 years would look like this (I'm not saying it would be any "better"). Sure, you can say that plastic surgery is voluntary and so is getting booked, but I just feel that maybe it isn't.
I don't know.
You're taking a few aspects from a culture and generalizing the whole thing because of them. Don't be stupid.
On March 09 2011 18:44 Cuddle wrote: A very interesting read. Thanks for sharing!
It leaves me somewhat sad and I don't know why. I guess I am just naive and from a different culture but the booking really gets to me. It's been stated over and over in this thread that the girls know what they get themselves into and it's as much fun for them but still, the concept makes me sad. I don't understand how the concept cannot seem male chauvinistic to everyone else, when it so clearly is to me. It's not the prostitution that troubles me (I am an avid spokesman for legalized prostitution - but that's a different topic) but rather the way a culture forces acceptance of a male affirming social concept. (God that sounds pretentious but I can't quite put words to the feeling)
This blog, coupled with the picture painted by MightyAtom and tales of the wide spread of plastic surgery among women gives me a, hopefully, skewed picture of S.Korea. I don't think a culture that had been female dominated for 3000 years would look like this (I'm not saying it would be any "better"). Sure, you can say that plastic surgery is voluntary and so is getting booked, but I just feel that maybe it isn't.
I don't know.
You're taking a few aspects from a culture and generalizing the whole thing because of them. Don't be stupid.
Well, I was hoping to address the few aspects and not generalize but maybe you are right. I don't know a lot about S.Korea so I am in no place to generalize.
compared to germany where there are clubs popping up that have a one time entry fee starting at 100 € (very crappy and cheap looking judging from news and the outside, never been there) where you can eat and **** as long as you want, as often as you want with as many girls as you want.
the korean way has much more class ... but who knows what the koreans would come up with, if prostitution would be legalized there, like it is in germany ^^
I dont remember how i got here but im glad i did. great read... no awesome read. Thanks for not holding back any details for all the ones who could back up or offer another point of view on the subject than the OP (and of course the OP himself). Being a Korean American male and having gone to Korea only when i was a baby and this past summer (but of course i was babied by my relatives) I never really knew about this side of Korea. Its not enough to just know the good sides of Korea (like the food) but also I feel like I also need to know the bad sides. Though I dont support the ideas of these places, what can be done about it really? Regardless, thanks again OP and all that contributed.
Japan also has the same sex industry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Japan#Prostitution_today). It's interesting to see both of them... take similar tech paths, to borrow StarCraft phrasing.
I can't judge if legalizing prostitution is the way to go. It does provide an outlet and lower sex crimes, but at what cost? Then again, aren't the costs just drawn up by our own moral standards, which in turn were created culturally and through life experiences? Where do we draw the line, and how is that line determined fairly?
It's too hard to figure it out, but it's always good to have diversity between western and eastern cultures; you never forget the big picture that way. We are able to see beyond our own limited scope.
Thanks for the courage to post from behind-the-scenes!
I know many of you are amazed at all this... Such mystical stuff in the mysterious southern half of the Korean peninsula... But let me open your eyes to something that may be even more shocking to some. A lot of these girls end up coming to the US!
Three primary reasons why they leave the motherland for the U S of A.
1. They're too old for Korea. In Korea, 30 is too old. 2. They can make much more money in America. 3. They skip out on all their debt and problems and run away to America.
So here goes...
Let's start with the "classy" room salons.
Room Salons Room salons exist whereever Koreans are. The cost? Minimum is something like $300 for a bottle of Johnny Walker, $100 for the girl, $50 for the waiter, $50 for the madam. So expect to pay $500 to get drunk and a case of blueballs.
The girls will sing, dance, play games. Their raunchiness is up to their personality and you, but don't expect sex. In America, 2-cha (sex) does not exist in 95% of the room salons, with 5% margin of error. If it exists, I have never seen it nor even heard of it.
Instead, girls are actively looking to do something called jagop (literally means work) which means they are trying to seduce guys into giving them money. They do this in various ways: Talking on the phone, meeting for dinner, going on dates, and of course sex. But it's not simply paying for sex as it is in Korea. They actively look for sugardaddies, and if you can pay them rent plus $2000 or $3000 a month, then you might have a good chance of making them your sugarbaby and actually having sex.
Girls tend to range from 20 to 35. The younger and prettier ones tend to be in places that are either convenient (LA) or a place that makes a lot of money (varies). I have never been to a room salon in Korea, but I think I can give an educated guess that the girls at room salons in America are not as pretty as the ones in Korea on average, but the very hot ones still do exist.
There also exists the noraebang doumi. These are girls that will come to your karaoke room at a standard noraebang (karaoke), and they will drink/dance/play with you. Price is usually a minimum of $120-$140 for 2 hours plus whatever your karaoke room costs (depends on size of room). This niche used to be covered by Korean-Chinese (Koreans that were raised in China), as they are looked down upon by regular Koreans (racism, I know), but in some areas, doumis make more money than room salon girls, so Korean room salon girls working as doumis is starting to become the norm. All the same jagop rules apply.
There is also the doumi bar. It is a bar where the bartenders are room salon girls and doumis. I have never been, but tip is not the standard American 15-20%, as these girls will go out of their way to talk with you and whatever and make you feel good. I don't know for sure, but I estimate you are expected to pay at least $50 in tip no matter how little you drank.
Since the prostitution element is practically non-existant with these places, the biggest concerns are:
1. It is illegal in most America for a restaurant or bar employee to ask customers to buy them drinks. 2. Many of these girls are illegally working as they do not have the proper documents.
However, non-Koreans will always suspect something more is going on at these establishments... But not in America. There is no hanky panky.
During good times, girls typically make $6000 - $10000.
Because many of these girls have worked 2-cha before back in Korea, some decide to move into actual prostitution...
Massage Parlors This used to be the most common format all over the country until huge FBI and ICE stings that swept both coasts in 2005 and 2006 respectively. They are still very common all over America.
The idea is you pay $60 to the mamasan as the "house fee" and $100 to the girl for sex, with lesser services being less. Prices vary in different places. For example, in Rhode Island it's typically $60 + $140.
In good times, good girls will make typically $20000-$30000 by banging 7 to 10 guys a day.
The quality of the girls depends on where you go, but the average age is 30-40, with some girls being younger and some girls being older. It is not uncommon to see incredibly hot plastic girls, due to the amount of plastic surgery they get using the money they make. However, it's also not uncommon to see plastic surgery gone bad, and of course the girls tend to be older.
The girls will typically give you a table shower where you lay on a rubber mat and they soap and wash you. Then they take you to a room where they massage you and then tell you to turn over. Blowjobs are almost always with condom. Kissing and giving them oral sex is not very common, but not uncommon either.
If you go to a massage parlor in some rural area like the Mid-West, expect to see some really ugly ladies in their 50's and 60's. And it'll still cost you the same. Sometimes, it'll cost the same and all you will get is a handjob as by the time they get that old, they have married and become permanent residents and have obtained massage licenses.
Incall Now this is what you'll commonly see referred to an escort. However, the Korean escorts typically work out of rented apartments instead of hotels. This format is becoming increasingly popular due to how discreet it is and less overhead of having to manage an actual massage business front (licensing, renting a commercial property, etc.)
Prices vary and quality of services vary. Typical breakdown.
Los Angeles - $250 for 1 Hour. Girls tend to be younger (25-35 average), more natural looking (like a normal Korean girl), and do more (uncovered blowjob, let you give them oral sex, kiss).
New York - $200 for 1 Hour. Some actually still work out of massage parlors, but advertise on the Internet as escorts. Girls tend to be 30-40 average, more "hotter" looking (tan, dyed hair, huge boobs), and so on. Service is more typical of a massage parlor (all covered, kissing rare, etc.).
Chinese Houses - Owner is Chinese, hence the name. Girls will be more natural looking to be more attractive to Asian customers. Girls usually stay only 10 days. Everything is mechanical service. They bang you and you leave. Typically the price is $160 or $140, but there are places that go as low as $120, where you are expected to finish and leave within 10 minutes.
The Rest And as usual, there's all sorts of variations. Independent Korean escorts, outcall, so on.
However, I'd like to touch on the issue of human trafficking. Very, very few of these girls are sex slaves. Chances are that even if you frequent these type of places, you will never see one who is being forced to work against their will. However, when these places are busted, the media and law enforcement will almost always play up the angle of human trafficking and sex slavery because:
1. They're Asian. 2. They speak little to no English usually. 3. They're usually working in the country illegally.
On March 30 2011 17:47 Core1 wrote: I know many of you are amazed at all this... Such mystical stuff in the mysterious southern half of the Korean peninsula... But let me open your eyes to something that may be even more shocking to some. A lot of these girls end up coming to the US!
Three primary reasons why they leave the motherland for the U S of A.
1. They're too old for Korea. In Korea, 30 is too old. 2. They can make much more money in America. 3. They skip out on all their debt and problems and run away to America.
So here goes...
Let's start with the "classy" room salons.
Room Salons Room salons exist whereever Koreans are. The cost? Minimum is something like $300 for a bottle of Johnny Walker, $100 for the girl, $50 for the waiter, $50 for the madam. So expect to pay $500 to get drunk and a case of blueballs.
The girls will sing, dance, play games. Their raunchiness is up to their personality and you, but don't expect sex. In America, 2-cha (sex) does not exist in 95% of the room salons, with 5% margin of error. If it exists, I have never seen it nor even heard of it.
Instead, girls are actively looking to do something called jagop (literally means work) which means they are trying to seduce guys into giving them money. They do this in various ways: Talking on the phone, meeting for dinner, going on dates, and of course sex. But it's not simply paying for sex as it is in Korea. They actively look for sugardaddies, and if you can pay them rent plus $2000 or $3000 a month, then you might have a good chance of making them your sugarbaby and actually having sex.
Girls tend to range from 20 to 35. The younger and prettier ones tend to be in places that are either convenient (LA) or a place that makes a lot of money (varies). I have never been to a room salon in Korea, but I think I can give an educated guess that the girls at room salons in America are not as pretty as the ones in Korea on average, but the very hot ones still do exist.
There also exists the noraebang doumi. These are girls that will come to your karaoke room at a standard noraebang (karaoke), and they will drink/dance/play with you. Price is usually a minimum of $120-$140 for 2 hours plus whatever your karaoke room costs (depends on size of room). This niche used to be covered by Korean-Chinese (Koreans that were raised in China), as they are looked down upon by regular Koreans (racism, I know), but in some areas, doumis make more money than room salon girls, so Korean room salon girls working as doumis is starting to become the norm. All the same jagop rules apply.
There is also the doumi bar. It is a bar where the bartenders are room salon girls and doumis. I have never been, but tip is not the standard American 15-20%, as these girls will go out of their way to talk with you and whatever and make you feel good. I don't know for sure, but I estimate you are expected to pay at least $50 in tip no matter how little you drank.
Since the prostitution element is practically non-existant with these places, the biggest concerns are:
1. It is illegal in most America for a restaurant or bar employee to ask customers to buy them drinks. 2. Many of these girls are illegally working as they do not have the proper documents.
However, non-Koreans will always suspect something more is going on at these establishments... But not in America. There is no hanky panky.
During good times, girls typically make $6000 - $10000.
Because many of these girls have worked 2-cha before back in Korea, some decide to move into actual prostitution...
Massage Parlors This used to be the most common format all over the country until huge FBI and ICE stings that swept both coasts in 2005 and 2006 respectively. They are still very common all over America.
The idea is you pay $60 to the mamasan as the "house fee" and $100 to the girl for sex, with lesser services being less. Prices vary in different places. For example, in Rhode Island it's typically $60 + $140.
In good times, good girls will make typically $20000-$30000 by banging 7 to 10 guys a day.
The quality of the girls depends on where you go, but the average age is 30-40, with some girls being younger and some girls being older. It is not uncommon to see incredibly hot plastic girls, due to the amount of plastic surgery they get using the money they make. However, it's also not uncommon to see plastic surgery gone bad, and of course the girls tend to be older.
The girls will typically give you a table shower where you lay on a rubber mat and they soap and wash you. Then they take you to a room where they massage you and then tell you to turn over. Blowjobs are almost always with condom. Kissing and giving them oral sex is not very common, but not uncommon either.
If you go to a massage parlor in some rural area like the Mid-West, expect to see some really ugly ladies in their 50's and 60's. And it'll still cost you the same. Sometimes, it'll cost the same and all you will get is a handjob as by the time they get that old, they have married and become permanent residents and have obtained massage licenses.
Incall Now this is what you'll commonly see referred to an escort. However, the Korean escorts typically work out of rented apartments instead of hotels. This format is becoming increasingly popular due to how discreet it is and less overhead of having to manage an actual massage business front (licensing, renting a commercial property, etc.)
Prices vary and quality of services vary. Typical breakdown.
Los Angeles - $250 for 1 Hour. Girls tend to be younger (25-35 average), more natural looking (like a normal Korean girl), and do more (uncovered blowjob, let you give them oral sex, kiss).
New York - $200 for 1 Hour. Some actually still work out of massage parlors, but advertise on the Internet as escorts. Girls tend to be 30-40 average, more "hotter" looking (tan, dyed hair, huge boobs), and so on. Service is more typical of a massage parlor (all covered, kissing rare, etc.).
Chinese Houses - Owner is Chinese, hence the name. Girls will be more natural looking to be more attractive to Asian customers. Girls usually stay only 10 days. Everything is mechanical service. They bang you and you leave. Typically the price is $160 or $140, but there are places that go as low as $120, where you are expected to finish and leave within 10 minutes.
The Rest And as usual, there's all sorts of variations. Independent Korean escorts, outcall, so on.
However, I'd like to touch on the issue of human trafficking. Very, very few of these girls are sex slaves. Chances are that even if you frequent these type of places, you will never see one who is being forced to work against their will. However, when these places are busted, the media and law enforcement will almost always play up the angle of human trafficking and sex slavery because:
1. They're Asian. 2. They speak little to no English usually. 3. They're usually working in the country illegally.
Well that's that!
Strong first post but really... like lilsusie asked, why did you feel the need to post this on a gaming forum? and you made an entire account to do so?
On March 30 2011 17:47 Core1 wrote: I know many of you are amazed at all this... Such mystical stuff in the mysterious southern half of the Korean peninsula... But let me open your eyes to something that may be even more shocking to some. A lot of these girls end up coming to the US!
Three primary reasons why they leave the motherland for the U S of A.
1. They're too old for Korea. In Korea, 30 is too old. 2. They can make much more money in America. 3. They skip out on all their debt and problems and run away to America.
So here goes...
Let's start with the "classy" room salons.
Room Salons Room salons exist whereever Koreans are. The cost? Minimum is something like $300 for a bottle of Johnny Walker, $100 for the girl, $50 for the waiter, $50 for the madam. So expect to pay $500 to get drunk and a case of blueballs.
The girls will sing, dance, play games. Their raunchiness is up to their personality and you, but don't expect sex. In America, 2-cha (sex) does not exist in 95% of the room salons, with 5% margin of error. If it exists, I have never seen it nor even heard of it.
Instead, girls are actively looking to do something called jagop (literally means work) which means they are trying to seduce guys into giving them money. They do this in various ways: Talking on the phone, meeting for dinner, going on dates, and of course sex. But it's not simply paying for sex as it is in Korea. They actively look for sugardaddies, and if you can pay them rent plus $2000 or $3000 a month, then you might have a good chance of making them your sugarbaby and actually having sex.
Girls tend to range from 20 to 35. The younger and prettier ones tend to be in places that are either convenient (LA) or a place that makes a lot of money (varies). I have never been to a room salon in Korea, but I think I can give an educated guess that the girls at room salons in America are not as pretty as the ones in Korea on average, but the very hot ones still do exist.
There also exists the noraebang doumi. These are girls that will come to your karaoke room at a standard noraebang (karaoke), and they will drink/dance/play with you. Price is usually a minimum of $120-$140 for 2 hours plus whatever your karaoke room costs (depends on size of room). This niche used to be covered by Korean-Chinese (Koreans that were raised in China), as they are looked down upon by regular Koreans (racism, I know), but in some areas, doumis make more money than room salon girls, so Korean room salon girls working as doumis is starting to become the norm. All the same jagop rules apply.
There is also the doumi bar. It is a bar where the bartenders are room salon girls and doumis. I have never been, but tip is not the standard American 15-20%, as these girls will go out of their way to talk with you and whatever and make you feel good. I don't know for sure, but I estimate you are expected to pay at least $50 in tip no matter how little you drank.
Since the prostitution element is practically non-existant with these places, the biggest concerns are:
1. It is illegal in most America for a restaurant or bar employee to ask customers to buy them drinks. 2. Many of these girls are illegally working as they do not have the proper documents.
However, non-Koreans will always suspect something more is going on at these establishments... But not in America. There is no hanky panky.
During good times, girls typically make $6000 - $10000.
Because many of these girls have worked 2-cha before back in Korea, some decide to move into actual prostitution...
Massage Parlors This used to be the most common format all over the country until huge FBI and ICE stings that swept both coasts in 2005 and 2006 respectively. They are still very common all over America.
The idea is you pay $60 to the mamasan as the "house fee" and $100 to the girl for sex, with lesser services being less. Prices vary in different places. For example, in Rhode Island it's typically $60 + $140.
In good times, good girls will make typically $20000-$30000 by banging 7 to 10 guys a day.
The quality of the girls depends on where you go, but the average age is 30-40, with some girls being younger and some girls being older. It is not uncommon to see incredibly hot plastic girls, due to the amount of plastic surgery they get using the money they make. However, it's also not uncommon to see plastic surgery gone bad, and of course the girls tend to be older.
The girls will typically give you a table shower where you lay on a rubber mat and they soap and wash you. Then they take you to a room where they massage you and then tell you to turn over. Blowjobs are almost always with condom. Kissing and giving them oral sex is not very common, but not uncommon either.
If you go to a massage parlor in some rural area like the Mid-West, expect to see some really ugly ladies in their 50's and 60's. And it'll still cost you the same. Sometimes, it'll cost the same and all you will get is a handjob as by the time they get that old, they have married and become permanent residents and have obtained massage licenses.
Incall Now this is what you'll commonly see referred to an escort. However, the Korean escorts typically work out of rented apartments instead of hotels. This format is becoming increasingly popular due to how discreet it is and less overhead of having to manage an actual massage business front (licensing, renting a commercial property, etc.)
Prices vary and quality of services vary. Typical breakdown.
Los Angeles - $250 for 1 Hour. Girls tend to be younger (25-35 average), more natural looking (like a normal Korean girl), and do more (uncovered blowjob, let you give them oral sex, kiss).
New York - $200 for 1 Hour. Some actually still work out of massage parlors, but advertise on the Internet as escorts. Girls tend to be 30-40 average, more "hotter" looking (tan, dyed hair, huge boobs), and so on. Service is more typical of a massage parlor (all covered, kissing rare, etc.).
Chinese Houses - Owner is Chinese, hence the name. Girls will be more natural looking to be more attractive to Asian customers. Girls usually stay only 10 days. Everything is mechanical service. They bang you and you leave. Typically the price is $160 or $140, but there are places that go as low as $120, where you are expected to finish and leave within 10 minutes.
The Rest And as usual, there's all sorts of variations. Independent Korean escorts, outcall, so on.
However, I'd like to touch on the issue of human trafficking. Very, very few of these girls are sex slaves. Chances are that even if you frequent these type of places, you will never see one who is being forced to work against their will. However, when these places are busted, the media and law enforcement will almost always play up the angle of human trafficking and sex slavery because:
1. They're Asian. 2. They speak little to no English usually. 3. They're usually working in the country illegally.
Well that's that!
Strong first post but really... like lilsusie asked, why did you feel the need to post this on a gaming forum? and you made an entire account to do so?
Because there's a thread he could contribute to, and contribute well, don't act like this isn't interesting.
On March 30 2011 17:47 Core1 wrote: I know many of you are amazed at all this... Such mystical stuff in the mysterious southern half of the Korean peninsula... But let me open your eyes to something that may be even more shocking to some. A lot of these girls end up coming to the US!
Three primary reasons why they leave the motherland for the U S of A.
1. They're too old for Korea. In Korea, 30 is too old. 2. They can make much more money in America. 3. They skip out on all their debt and problems and run away to America.
So here goes...
Let's start with the "classy" room salons.
Room Salons Room salons exist whereever Koreans are. The cost? Minimum is something like $300 for a bottle of Johnny Walker, $100 for the girl, $50 for the waiter, $50 for the madam. So expect to pay $500 to get drunk and a case of blueballs.
The girls will sing, dance, play games. Their raunchiness is up to their personality and you, but don't expect sex. In America, 2-cha (sex) does not exist in 95% of the room salons, with 5% margin of error. If it exists, I have never seen it nor even heard of it.
Instead, girls are actively looking to do something called jagop (literally means work) which means they are trying to seduce guys into giving them money. They do this in various ways: Talking on the phone, meeting for dinner, going on dates, and of course sex. But it's not simply paying for sex as it is in Korea. They actively look for sugardaddies, and if you can pay them rent plus $2000 or $3000 a month, then you might have a good chance of making them your sugarbaby and actually having sex.
Girls tend to range from 20 to 35. The younger and prettier ones tend to be in places that are either convenient (LA) or a place that makes a lot of money (varies). I have never been to a room salon in Korea, but I think I can give an educated guess that the girls at room salons in America are not as pretty as the ones in Korea on average, but the very hot ones still do exist.
There also exists the noraebang doumi. These are girls that will come to your karaoke room at a standard noraebang (karaoke), and they will drink/dance/play with you. Price is usually a minimum of $120-$140 for 2 hours plus whatever your karaoke room costs (depends on size of room). This niche used to be covered by Korean-Chinese (Koreans that were raised in China), as they are looked down upon by regular Koreans (racism, I know), but in some areas, doumis make more money than room salon girls, so Korean room salon girls working as doumis is starting to become the norm. All the same jagop rules apply.
There is also the doumi bar. It is a bar where the bartenders are room salon girls and doumis. I have never been, but tip is not the standard American 15-20%, as these girls will go out of their way to talk with you and whatever and make you feel good. I don't know for sure, but I estimate you are expected to pay at least $50 in tip no matter how little you drank.
Since the prostitution element is practically non-existant with these places, the biggest concerns are:
1. It is illegal in most America for a restaurant or bar employee to ask customers to buy them drinks. 2. Many of these girls are illegally working as they do not have the proper documents.
However, non-Koreans will always suspect something more is going on at these establishments... But not in America. There is no hanky panky.
During good times, girls typically make $6000 - $10000.
Because many of these girls have worked 2-cha before back in Korea, some decide to move into actual prostitution...
Massage Parlors This used to be the most common format all over the country until huge FBI and ICE stings that swept both coasts in 2005 and 2006 respectively. They are still very common all over America.
The idea is you pay $60 to the mamasan as the "house fee" and $100 to the girl for sex, with lesser services being less. Prices vary in different places. For example, in Rhode Island it's typically $60 + $140.
In good times, good girls will make typically $20000-$30000 by banging 7 to 10 guys a day.
The quality of the girls depends on where you go, but the average age is 30-40, with some girls being younger and some girls being older. It is not uncommon to see incredibly hot plastic girls, due to the amount of plastic surgery they get using the money they make. However, it's also not uncommon to see plastic surgery gone bad, and of course the girls tend to be older.
The girls will typically give you a table shower where you lay on a rubber mat and they soap and wash you. Then they take you to a room where they massage you and then tell you to turn over. Blowjobs are almost always with condom. Kissing and giving them oral sex is not very common, but not uncommon either.
If you go to a massage parlor in some rural area like the Mid-West, expect to see some really ugly ladies in their 50's and 60's. And it'll still cost you the same. Sometimes, it'll cost the same and all you will get is a handjob as by the time they get that old, they have married and become permanent residents and have obtained massage licenses.
Incall Now this is what you'll commonly see referred to an escort. However, the Korean escorts typically work out of rented apartments instead of hotels. This format is becoming increasingly popular due to how discreet it is and less overhead of having to manage an actual massage business front (licensing, renting a commercial property, etc.)
Prices vary and quality of services vary. Typical breakdown.
Los Angeles - $250 for 1 Hour. Girls tend to be younger (25-35 average), more natural looking (like a normal Korean girl), and do more (uncovered blowjob, let you give them oral sex, kiss).
New York - $200 for 1 Hour. Some actually still work out of massage parlors, but advertise on the Internet as escorts. Girls tend to be 30-40 average, more "hotter" looking (tan, dyed hair, huge boobs), and so on. Service is more typical of a massage parlor (all covered, kissing rare, etc.).
Chinese Houses - Owner is Chinese, hence the name. Girls will be more natural looking to be more attractive to Asian customers. Girls usually stay only 10 days. Everything is mechanical service. They bang you and you leave. Typically the price is $160 or $140, but there are places that go as low as $120, where you are expected to finish and leave within 10 minutes.
The Rest And as usual, there's all sorts of variations. Independent Korean escorts, outcall, so on.
However, I'd like to touch on the issue of human trafficking. Very, very few of these girls are sex slaves. Chances are that even if you frequent these type of places, you will never see one who is being forced to work against their will. However, when these places are busted, the media and law enforcement will almost always play up the angle of human trafficking and sex slavery because:
1. They're Asian. 2. They speak little to no English usually. 3. They're usually working in the country illegally.
Well that's that!
Strong first post but really... like lilsusie asked, why did you feel the need to post this on a gaming forum? and you made an entire account to do so?
Cause its a blog and he can do so. Lilsusie wouldnt even gave a damn if it wasn't about korea.
On March 30 2011 17:47 Core1 wrote: I know many of you are amazed at all this... Such mystical stuff in the mysterious southern half of the Korean peninsula... But let me open your eyes to something that may be even more shocking to some. A lot of these girls end up coming to the US!
Three primary reasons why they leave the motherland for the U S of A.
1. They're too old for Korea. In Korea, 30 is too old. 2. They can make much more money in America. 3. They skip out on all their debt and problems and run away to America.
So here goes...
Let's start with the "classy" room salons.
Room Salons Room salons exist whereever Koreans are. The cost? Minimum is something like $300 for a bottle of Johnny Walker, $100 for the girl, $50 for the waiter, $50 for the madam. So expect to pay $500 to get drunk and a case of blueballs.
The girls will sing, dance, play games. Their raunchiness is up to their personality and you, but don't expect sex. In America, 2-cha (sex) does not exist in 95% of the room salons, with 5% margin of error. If it exists, I have never seen it nor even heard of it.
Instead, girls are actively looking to do something called jagop (literally means work) which means they are trying to seduce guys into giving them money. They do this in various ways: Talking on the phone, meeting for dinner, going on dates, and of course sex. But it's not simply paying for sex as it is in Korea. They actively look for sugardaddies, and if you can pay them rent plus $2000 or $3000 a month, then you might have a good chance of making them your sugarbaby and actually having sex.
Girls tend to range from 20 to 35. The younger and prettier ones tend to be in places that are either convenient (LA) or a place that makes a lot of money (varies). I have never been to a room salon in Korea, but I think I can give an educated guess that the girls at room salons in America are not as pretty as the ones in Korea on average, but the very hot ones still do exist.
There also exists the noraebang doumi. These are girls that will come to your karaoke room at a standard noraebang (karaoke), and they will drink/dance/play with you. Price is usually a minimum of $120-$140 for 2 hours plus whatever your karaoke room costs (depends on size of room). This niche used to be covered by Korean-Chinese (Koreans that were raised in China), as they are looked down upon by regular Koreans (racism, I know), but in some areas, doumis make more money than room salon girls, so Korean room salon girls working as doumis is starting to become the norm. All the same jagop rules apply.
There is also the doumi bar. It is a bar where the bartenders are room salon girls and doumis. I have never been, but tip is not the standard American 15-20%, as these girls will go out of their way to talk with you and whatever and make you feel good. I don't know for sure, but I estimate you are expected to pay at least $50 in tip no matter how little you drank.
Since the prostitution element is practically non-existant with these places, the biggest concerns are:
1. It is illegal in most America for a restaurant or bar employee to ask customers to buy them drinks. 2. Many of these girls are illegally working as they do not have the proper documents.
However, non-Koreans will always suspect something more is going on at these establishments... But not in America. There is no hanky panky.
During good times, girls typically make $6000 - $10000.
Because many of these girls have worked 2-cha before back in Korea, some decide to move into actual prostitution...
Massage Parlors This used to be the most common format all over the country until huge FBI and ICE stings that swept both coasts in 2005 and 2006 respectively. They are still very common all over America.
The idea is you pay $60 to the mamasan as the "house fee" and $100 to the girl for sex, with lesser services being less. Prices vary in different places. For example, in Rhode Island it's typically $60 + $140.
In good times, good girls will make typically $20000-$30000 by banging 7 to 10 guys a day.
The quality of the girls depends on where you go, but the average age is 30-40, with some girls being younger and some girls being older. It is not uncommon to see incredibly hot plastic girls, due to the amount of plastic surgery they get using the money they make. However, it's also not uncommon to see plastic surgery gone bad, and of course the girls tend to be older.
The girls will typically give you a table shower where you lay on a rubber mat and they soap and wash you. Then they take you to a room where they massage you and then tell you to turn over. Blowjobs are almost always with condom. Kissing and giving them oral sex is not very common, but not uncommon either.
If you go to a massage parlor in some rural area like the Mid-West, expect to see some really ugly ladies in their 50's and 60's. And it'll still cost you the same. Sometimes, it'll cost the same and all you will get is a handjob as by the time they get that old, they have married and become permanent residents and have obtained massage licenses.
Incall Now this is what you'll commonly see referred to an escort. However, the Korean escorts typically work out of rented apartments instead of hotels. This format is becoming increasingly popular due to how discreet it is and less overhead of having to manage an actual massage business front (licensing, renting a commercial property, etc.)
Prices vary and quality of services vary. Typical breakdown.
Los Angeles - $250 for 1 Hour. Girls tend to be younger (25-35 average), more natural looking (like a normal Korean girl), and do more (uncovered blowjob, let you give them oral sex, kiss).
New York - $200 for 1 Hour. Some actually still work out of massage parlors, but advertise on the Internet as escorts. Girls tend to be 30-40 average, more "hotter" looking (tan, dyed hair, huge boobs), and so on. Service is more typical of a massage parlor (all covered, kissing rare, etc.).
Chinese Houses - Owner is Chinese, hence the name. Girls will be more natural looking to be more attractive to Asian customers. Girls usually stay only 10 days. Everything is mechanical service. They bang you and you leave. Typically the price is $160 or $140, but there are places that go as low as $120, where you are expected to finish and leave within 10 minutes.
The Rest And as usual, there's all sorts of variations. Independent Korean escorts, outcall, so on.
However, I'd like to touch on the issue of human trafficking. Very, very few of these girls are sex slaves. Chances are that even if you frequent these type of places, you will never see one who is being forced to work against their will. However, when these places are busted, the media and law enforcement will almost always play up the angle of human trafficking and sex slavery because:
1. They're Asian. 2. They speak little to no English usually. 3. They're usually working in the country illegally.
Well that's that!
Strong first post but really... like lilsusie asked, why did you feel the need to post this on a gaming forum? and you made an entire account to do so?
Cause its a blog and he can do so. Lilsusie wouldnt even gave a damn if it wasn't about korea.
core1 might be right about the areas he visited, but in RI almost every asian massage joint (including korean) does 'full body rubs', which is anything you want basically. I would assume the same for Nevada. So no, not true for all states.
Interesting read, pretty enlightening, thanks for posting this, when I visit Korea someday i'll (if i'm wealthy enough, which I do plan to be.) probably check these types of things out in person, i'm not saying i'm going to go to a whorehouse and pay to fuck some-girl, as OP said there are types of clubs where it's just drinking/talking/laughing/type of stuff, who knows maybe I will go further, we'll have to see. My fascination with Korea grows more and more each day.
I checked out the redlight districts in Seoul... Miari is kinda whack... 588 is eh.... Cheonho is the one for me. They have two right in front of each other right outside the alley with all the sellers selling pig feet. One shop has girls dressed in black the other dressed in white.
70,000 won for 15 minutes. Some let you go without condom, not sure how safe that is, though.
They're all pretty hot, but it's kind of sad how plastic surgery makes everyone look the same now. I actually kind of like a little rounder face instead of the newly popular vase-faces in Korea. If I could find a girl that looks like below would be awesome: http://korea1818.com/fk-ccup1-1.jpg
Speaking of which, I stayed in a hotel and they showed a lot of Korean porn. All of it was fake, though (they don't show any penetration, just a lot of toplessness and moaning).
EPT
And like OP said, they start to like the money, thus they stay in the business.
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