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my friend and i are pretty close in skill in the matchup zvt, i player zerg and am trying to explain to him that at our skill level (D+) he has a huge advantage. i am saying this on several reasons.. and i want to explain before i give them that our matches usually always end up defiler/ling/defiler against tanks/mnm/vessels..
1.) defilers are the hardest unit in the game. -- i am saying this based on consuming, swarming, being fucking slow.
2.) dark swarm. --- as this could be considered for the above i will say that burrowing lurkers, placing dark swarm, getting consume for the next swarm while macro/microing is harder than seiging/unseiging and a attacking with mnm
3.) also, when i think of irradiate i think of puking. seriously on top on macroing/microing, worrying about consume and swarming. I HAVE TO FUCKING split mutas on top of all of this??? seriosuly?? what the hell
4.) i HAVE 5 BASES WHAT THE HELL MAN he can keep up the firepower with two bases while i seriously have 5 for like 3 minutes. . he doesnt need as much gas for as much DPS
5.) no scouting early game... he can see my whole base for a good 4 minutes while i guess and make zerglings
fuck ur tldr
 
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At low level TvZ/ZvT. I feel like the T normally loses because he walks his mm into lurkers
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get over with it man,sc2 is just around the corner and this thing wont happen again in future.I was also frustrated with the muta micro thing,i didnt even learn how to muta micro since the day when i start playing competitively.
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you guys should off race against each other.. I strongly disagree with 1,2,3,4 and 5
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Dark Swarm and consume and burrow vs...
seige, stim 4 groups, irradiate
Also any decent zerg on 5 bases for 3+ min can win ezpz, just sayin...
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Why do you want him to think he has a huge advantage? You just want him to feel like shit when he loses?
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1) Their spells are more than enough to over compensate. And if you are decent at hotkeying they're not even that hard to control.
2) Who the fuck in their right mind complains about dark swarm in ZvT? The spell makes your units invincible against most ranged units.
3) If you mutas number is high enough to deal damage by the time you have consume and swarm, you either are really fucking good with muta micro, in which case splitting won't be a problem to you, or the T is noob.
4) If you have 5 bases for 3 minutes and he has 2 and you can't end the game, the problem ain't the match up. It's you.
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I actually feel that apart from all the bullshit stuff like 8rax bbs mech and wraith openings, terrans at lower levels are at a disadvantage because of the heavy amount of apm required to macro rines while zergs have a more forgiving macro system thanks to lavae.
Zergs don't have to target anything with lurkers while the terran has to micro and spread marines in order to minimise damage when even a single mistake can be fatal. Mass science vessels can be controled by hiding a deflier in an overlord using plague on all of them while having 1-3 mutas picking them off.
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On March 12 2010 14:37 Rostam wrote:
Why do you want him to think he has a huge advantage? You just want him to feel like shit when he loses?
I think he is trying to vindicate a losing record he has against his friend.
Simple solution just get better kid. Get you build orders rock solid, learn from your losses, and don't get angry. Experience has taught me that arguing against a kid that just beat you is a losing battle. Plus its feels awesome when you finally start winning.
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On March 12 2010 14:32 stanley_ wrote:
you guys should off race against each other.. I strongly disagree with 1,2,3,4 and 5
I approve.
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Canada18410 Posts
So what's the question here? Is ZvT supposed to be hard? Yes, I think it is the hardest matchup personally. If you don't like it then don't play ZvT. I don't know what you're asking here. Do you want to me to list things that make TvZ hard to play to make you feel better? Cause I can do that:
1) Opposite of your #1 and #2. Zergs get to cast abilities that make whatever is under their swarm practically invincible? Madness I say!
2) Plague reduces my whole army's HP to 1! Your billions of zerglings which are incredibly fast and invincible under swarm get to 1 hit kill me now as well???
3) Your imba mutalisks appear to be one unit, but it is actually a single flying ball of death! Zergs with good muta micro make the matchup unfair~(see Jaedong vs Iris on Peaks of Baekdu)
4) Your 400HP cows with 6 armour total just shrug off any amount of marines I have. You don't even need swarm for those fuckers.
5) You can basically see the whole map with your flying supply depots spread everywhere! Did I mention they can also transport units and carry out 2384092348dps crackling drops?
6) Hold lurkers. I need not say more.
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play a PvP game to get an estimate of both of your raw mechanics, maybe he's just better than you?
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it's definitely harder to defend against muta than to attack with muta. the only problem is to keep macroing while you're muta harrassing
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yea well everyone here 1v1 now
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ZvT is easier for zerg at D/D+/C- imo. Just try lurker first openings and run straight into his base once you have 8 lurkers and 20 or so lings, you'll win every time unless he makes 3 (yes, 3) bunkers at his choke. and then you can just contain him, and tech straight to ultras. if you keep your armor ups going you can just skip all the micro intensive units (muta, defiler) and overpower him with macro, since zerg is waaay easier to macro at that level.
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TBH i find (at my low level ability of ZvT and TvZ), ZvT to be much, much easier.
muta micro is really not very hard in all reality, and at lower levels is generally enough to allow you to get a third and lurkers, and once u get the third up its just about using darkswarm offense/defensively to get a fourth and get ultras out, then at lower levels if u have 4 bases and ultras you've basically won.
Also lower terrans will find it extremely difficult to keep there forces mobile and not let a defiler + lurkers get in their nat (practically losing them the game), this is another advantage.
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erm, I find that at D+, Zerg is so much easier than terran in ZvT..
like really,
muta micro = lol this is fun, weee pick off stray ANYTHING. Oops forget to macro? np larva so forgiving
lurkers = move then press "u" for rape while you laugh at terran frantically stim/split/focusfire
2 lurkers up ramp = free 3rd base
swarm makes you invincible?
and you basically have infinite swarm?
just cover the entire screen at terran nat with swarm. total invincibility and freedom for the cost of like 12 lings..
then when you get too lazy to macro (i.e. selecting hydras and pressing "L"), put down ultra cavern and 5su6su7su
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On March 12 2010 16:04 s_86 wrote:
oh dear...
Hopefully nothing good will come of this thread.
I mean, i read nothing even about spidermines.
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QQ more noob, rofl you're on 5 base and you lose to 2 base terran.
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you're not same skill level, terran does not have a big advantage over zerg at D+, you're just playing poorly and not taking advantage of the many weaknesses a D+ terran has. Quit whining.
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Thank god this isn't in strategy, because it's wrong on all points.
1/5
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What the fuck, haters quit bashing on him, he's just airing his opinions from his point of view, which is wrong in many portions, but still.
@OP: you need to know that lurkers come out before vessels, and lurkers are bloody tough to deal with as an MnM terran. It's not abuse to use them aggressively, you ought to tech to them asap after the first round of mutas off 3 hatch.
If you have 5 bases learn to get ultras, these freaks of nature just roll over the T army when you match his supply, and have a defiler to back it up.
5 base zerg v 2 base terran you should be winning, even doing doom drops and the like. And watch that replay if you saved it, it'll tell you tonnes about your mistakes
Either you lag behind on tech when you focus on your muta harass or you need to snipe some vessels with scourge if they run out to snipe your defilers.
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It really depends on your muta micro. Low level Terrans struggle against good muta micro mightily. So usually you can either kill them outright with mutas, kill them with the followup lurkers, or get such a large advantage it is virtually impossible to lose. Defilers are hard to micro, but if it's getting to that point, welll... he's probably defending your muta quite well.
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Honestly, what are you talking about o.O
Ya, for me, TvZ is slightly easier than ZvT, but that is just because I've never learned to muta micro. But seriously, all you need to do is muta harass, stall his push with muta/ling/lurk -> ling/lurk/defiler, camp 4 gas (you even claim to get 5), and then spam ultras/ling/defiler.
TvZ macro is probably the hardest macro in the game.
M+M+Tank+Vessel vs Defiler/Ling/Lurker is very difficult for Terran.
Swarm/Plague/Cows are imba. 
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ZvT is hard for everyone, really. Terrans do have a bit of an advantage a lot of the time, but most of us suck too much for these imbalances to really have an effect. And if you find yourself in the position of having 5base against a Terran's 2base then all you have to do is get all the ultralisk upgrades and then attack the Terran. You won't even need defilers to win at that point, especially since both of you suck. :O
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i feel zerg who loses at D level (at least my D level games) are due to impatience and being too aggresive.
zerg doesn't have to do anything to win a zvt. its up to terran to take out expos. if you play every game with the mentality that I will just let terran try to beat me for 20 minutes without committing my army to fight terran head on. any zerg will start to win a lot more.
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defiler/ling/defiler??. yea i see whats wrong right there when you said that
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EPT
