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Reading Plexa say the days of SC are numbered here, I've decided to write a blog about the whole situation.
First, I agree that TSL2 will be the last large foreign tournament, but only because I don't see any other tournament as being large other than TSL.
However I still think many of the normal sized tournaments and leagues will continue on, and the game certainly won't die because of SC2. I've gone through this process before, a classic game gets a big sequel that is hyped up to the space and is supposed to be 'the new game' that everyone will play. Sure, most people bought it and played it for a few months, some a few years, but in the end people returned to the original game one after one. Simply because there's no replacing a legendary game.
Of course people will mass game SC2 now when it's all new and exciting, everyone has been talking about this game forever after all. But trust me, as much as SC2 wants to be a replacement for SC, it will never be. You will never get that tense muta micro feeling, spider mines exploding everything, goons getting bugged out and whatever else makes SC so fun.
I also think there's too much politics involved in SC that Korea won't stop broadcast SC leagues for a good while, I don't think they're too happy about the system Blizzard uses for SC2.
Anyway, I won't stop playing SC because of SC2, but I'm also that kind of guy who won't bother with leagues and clans. I'll probably play both games, if SC2 improves dramatically because I don't find it that interesting so far.
On February 26 2010 19:39 Emon_ wrote:
SC1 = CS 1.6
SC2 = CS:Source
This is what I'm talking about. Although not the same games I was thinking of, the idea is the same. I think everyone who has gone through the same process and played competitive knows how this works, just most people here only play SC and have no such experience.
To them I say: don't worry, SC2 might even make SC bigger than it is today.
 
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Yeah I agree with OP. Sc2 is new RTS game and not even close to the epicness of sc:bw. But there is a chance Sc2 to be as big as sc:bw as Blizz made it and its still beta.
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Who cares what Plexa said he also said Boxer should quit.. 
+ Show Spoiler +Tho SC's days ARE numbered
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i hate to make a "blizzard doomsday" esque post, but i get this overwhelming feeling when i play sc2 that it's just a matter of time. it feels dated, as opposed to how timeless sc bw feels. could just be me
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Totaly agree with you. Your last sentence is preety cool 
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From what I've seen, SC2 definitely has the potential to take over from "where BW left off", but that's the thing, BW hasn't "left off" just yet. It's still early days to see quite what will happen when SC2 becomes very competitive.
BW wasn't perfectly balanced when it was first released, let alone SC1. No, it was the players, the map-makers and, to a slightly lesser extent, Blizzard themselves. The players were the key factor in making BW the game that it is.
In a similar way, the players will largely decide which one is the biggest. Seems like an obvious thing to say, but my main point is that there is something to be done about it, not just to be talked about.
If you want BW to remain active, KEEP it active. Organise tournaments and game nights; keep others excited about it. (btw, that isn't directed at the OP, necessarily, but to others who might be sitting back doing nothing about it.)
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Well technically all games days are numbers
No game lasts forever...
And SC2 can help make that time come faster or slower for SC:BW
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We will just have to wait and see.
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This is just nonsense. CS 1.6 and CS Source are barely even comparable... it's definately not like SC:BW and SC2.
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I dont really see why anyone who isnt a korean progamer would continue playing seriously/competatively when SC2 comes out. The Mechanics of BW are far too cumbersome/annoying and you get very little out compared to what you put in. The pathing/unit AI is ass and if it werent for BW being such an awesome game despite of those facts and the fact that the community is still so large people would have quit a long time ago.
I know just yesterday I was playing a few TvP's and i got zealot rushed in one of them and I had my buildings arranged so I could run my marines through them and block the zealots as most people know. Ya, so my 2nd marine decides its not going to walk through that spot no matter what, the first marine goes through just fine but no matter what the 2nd one just keeps walking back and forth on the outside of my barracks and getting sniped.
I also lost a game because 4 of my tanks decided to be retarded and not come down the ramp even though I told them to repeatedly so I was 4 tanks short when he attacked me.
In these games I couldnt help but think and hope this would be better in SC2. Sometimes the Pathing seems completely random, you can click the same spot twice and the 2nd time the unit will completely turn around and go the wrong way. Obviously you could say the location you pick has the effect relative to the current location of your unit. If we were dealing with single units this would be ok, but when you have a group of units and say the first 2 go up the ramp or whatever fine but the ones behind start to run backwards so you click up the ramp again then all of them run down. Its complete bullshit.
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On February 28 2010 01:03 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
This is just nonsense. CS 1.6 and CS Source are barely even comparable... it's definately not like SC:BW and SC2.
It's more like Brawl and Melee.
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I bought the Starcraft Battle Chest editon in June 2009. About 2 wees later I bought 3 more and gave them away because it was the coolest most satisfying game I had ever played. I've since given several more as gifts and the recipients tell me they love it. $20 at Target for years of fun. Communities like Team Liquid? ICCUP, GOM TV, the panda bear guy!!!
Broodwar Gold Edition? Starcraft Broodwar deserves this kind of recognition. It will sell just as many or more copies of SC2 (Boom baby!).
... go go go (uhmm going) Can I take your order? My life for Aiur! What do you want? Greetings! Nuclear launch detected ... C'mon how cool is that?
All together now /dance
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On February 28 2010 01:15 Vazze wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2010 01:03 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
This is just nonsense. CS 1.6 and CS Source are barely even comparable... it's definately not like SC:BW and SC2. It's more like Brawl and Melee.
I don't agree with that either. Brawl sucked, Source was pretty bad, SC2 is good.
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On February 28 2010 00:45 Zoler wrote:Who cares what Plexa said he also said Boxer should quit.. + Show Spoiler +Tho SC's days ARE numbered
was about to say that the only plexa post worse than sc's death is that boxer should retire
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i don't know if BW will be dead or not but SC2 will have 20 times more players than BW
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Not being SUPER competitive doesn't mean that the game will die,there will always be people playing sc1.
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SC2 will not kill SC. Sponsors supporting SC2 than SC will kill it.
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People will always play SC1, but as a greater number of players move to SC2, so will tournament organizers and competitive leagues. Already SC is taking a hit (compare current pro league topics to those made prior to beta). I don't plan on going back to SC, and I'm sure most other players will not also.
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You're a bit naive if you think the foreign scene will stay in SC:BW after SC2 released. If anything it'll remain a small niche with some very small cups here and there. All major organizations and tournaments will pick up SC2.
As for the korean scene, they'll probably continue with SC for quite some time until they work out a deal with Blizzard for broadcast rights. When SC2s popularity increases, they'll be forced to make a deal.
Even if SC2 is inferior to SC1 from an e-sports perspective, it'll stay take its place. Atleast in the foreign scene.
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Korean scene drives programing which in turn will be a big factor in whether or not SC2 becomes THE progaming RTS. Sure there will be lots of European and American tournaments for SC2, but if Koreans don't adopt it it'll stay a somewhat small-medium-ish tournament with not that much consistent big money. The finances in Korea compared to foreign tourneys is just too big a difference.
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So, because it happened once with CS, you think it will happen in SC? Diablo was replaced by Diablo 2. WC2 was replaced by WC3. Quake was replaced by Quake 2, which was then replaced by Quake 3. Saying that SC2 won't replace SC is just wishful thinking.
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On February 28 2010 01:01 JSH wrote:
Well technically all games days are numbers
No game lasts forever...
And SC2 can help make that time come faster or slower for SC:BW
What about chess?
I think SC:BW will always be a game in its own right just because there is a sequel doesn't mean that BW doesnt have something different to offer.
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I think it depends if Kespa finds an arrangement with Blizzard. There is a reason why Blizzard removed lan from SC2.
If they don't agree, then korean scene will keep on playing SC1, which will die very slowly. Otherwise, probably a great switch.
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I totally agree with this blog!
I'm pretty certain the Koreans will stay with SC. It's hard to say what will happen to the foreign player base, but my guess is that, after the SC2 hype is over over, a considerable portion will return to SC (similar to the source/1.6 split).
And I really believe the 1.6/source, quake3/quake4 analogy can be made here as well.
SC = good gameplay (bad graphics), requires good mechanics for macro/micro, pretty much perfect for competative play.
SC2 = easy gameplay, fun experience for casual gamers (good graphics), micro is pretty much non-existent, macro is far too easy (barely requires any mechanics), resulting in a small skill gap since it's relatively easy to become a decent player, so not suited for competative play.
Only argument for SC2 would be better graphics, but i still think the game looks like shit. In SC2, units are hard to distinguish in large battles, buildings/units have a rather toy'ish/childish appearance, whereas SC1 units are easy to tell apart, and the units/buildings have more mature "look".
And if you think the people will stay with SC2 because organizations will host SC2 tournies with larger prize pools, you're wrong, just look at what happened with CS:S and the CGS, it completely failed. In the end, most players will stick with the game with the best gameplay.
Just my 2 cents 
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As sad as this may sound, but imo, whether SC lives (with a strong pulse) depends solely on Korea's reaction to SC2. If Korea decides to let SC2 supplant SC in broadcast, then there will be no chance that SC can live; and vice versa.
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Wrong.
The only players who could be interested in sticking with SC:BW are the TOP Korean players who are basically guaranteed Starleague appearances. All the B-teamers, people like Idra and countless other no-name Koreans, will get the fuck out of SC and look for their chance for fame&money in SC2. SC2 will also be the topic of all conversation, and SC will go completely underground. Then, if SC2 fails, SC might come to life again, but I don't see it happening to the degree of having a Starleague broadcasted in prime time like it is now in Korea.
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Agree with nite.
Only the most hardcore of hardcore players will stick with SC1 (Koreans), so yea, the game will die.
Don't have a problem with it either.
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On February 28 2010 02:00 Vedic wrote:
So, because it happened once with CS, you think it will happen in SC? Diablo was replaced by Diablo 2. WC2 was replaced by WC3. Quake was replaced by Quake 2, which was then replaced by Quake 3. Saying that SC2 won't replace SC is just wishful thinking.
-Diablo wasn't a multiplayer game at its core, as far as I know there wasn't even an online mode in the expansion Hellfire. Hell no one even had Internet when Diablo was released.
-Quake and Quake 2 might have been replaced by Quake 3, but did Quake 4 replace Quake 3? I don't think so, that game was dead within a year. And if you didn't know, Id Software had a QuakeWorld tournament last QuakeCon, which proves people still play Quake competitive.
-WarCraft 3 replaced WarCraft 2, agreed.
-CS:S did definitely not replace CS.
-UT2003/UT2004/UT3 did not replace UT, there are more UT tournaments today as well as over 2000 players constantly playing on public.
-GH:XXXXXX did not replace GH3, it is still the most competitive game with the largest userbase today.
-Did CoD4 replace CoD2? Did CoD5 and 6 replace CoD4? Judging by the amount of players on ClanBase for example, CoD2 still has way more players than most other online games today, and CoD4 has a ridiculous amount of players.
So, as you see, it didn't happen once but tons of times already. Some games have pretty much been replaced, but there are more cases where the userbase have been split and created a loss/loss situation. No one likes when a sequel sucks up players from the old game, but no one likes a new game without enough players as well.
I'm not trying to say SC2 will disappear and everyone will play SC, I'm just saying SC will still be active and COULD have as many players as SC2 or even more, as the smoke fade away after a year or so.
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After the hype fizzles out, people will play the game that is more fun.
My money is on Brood War
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don't think BW will die in Korea for a very very long time. Not unless SC2 is as good or better.
I really wish they'd just brought out a new game rather than a sequel. With a sequel everyone feels the urge to switch over and sponsors stop sponsoring the old game. If it was a new franchise that wouldn't be an issue.
sigh*
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There is a reason why Blizzard removed lan from SC2.
If blizzard is too controlling with SC2, then it won't be a viable e-sport (in korea or anywhere).
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On February 28 2010 00:45 Zoler wrote:Who cares what Plexa said he also said Boxer should quit.. + Show Spoiler +Tho SC's days ARE numbered
^^that
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Remember wc3? It was said all the time how that was going to be the end of sc..
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Foreign bw scene will die for sure but well all those players were amateurs ( no offense ).
Now they want to become pro, win tourneys and travel and they all know it won't happen if they stick to bw.
But Koreans won't quit this game.
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double post 
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The amount of SC2 hate here is hilarious
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I disagree. It will significantly detract from the player base that plays sc on a regular basis and I find it hard to believe that many if any leagues will still exist for sc1.
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boxer should quit already
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On February 28 2010 02:55 nbaker wrote:
After the hype fizzles out, people will play the game that is more fun.
My money is on Brood War
People wont play Sc1. Note that most of the "new" gamers, are relatively younger than the hardcore SC1 community, thus they probably dont even know Starcraft. Perhaps few of them will try it if they like SC2 (or if it sucks), but I would expect SC2 to become the "new" RTS game, or maybe even the "game of the year/quarter", with millions of casual gamers (blizzard hopes for that).
Other such games would be GTA San Andreas and COD4, which were really good games suitable both for starters and "new" gamers. Do people who like them play the previous games from these series? Perhaps some, but not that many.
Im not sure if SC2 is fun though; I mean, currently it has the "fun" of a new game, with decent controls/interface, but I wonder if there is any fun gameplay in it. I mean, I havent seen any muta micro (I love playing zerg due to muta micro); nor fun terran micro (mines, mnm), nor fun spellcasting (storms!), nor even 'fun' macro, with players taking few bases and fighting over land old-school TvP style (maybe because the maps are so small). Im talking from a viewer perspective - I mean, I dont see much of the "starcraft1" charm in SC2; and I dont see the WC3 charm either (frankly speaking I dont like WC3 surrounding-micro + 34236523 spells; I prefer "fast" sc1 micro).
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SC2 already killed SC for me.
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On February 28 2010 01:15 Sadist wrote:
I dont really see why anyone who isnt a korean progamer would continue playing seriously/competatively when SC2 comes out. The Mechanics of BW are far too cumbersome/annoying and you get very little out compared to what you put in.
That's exactly why I find the game so enjoyable, it's an actual task to play. For 12 years I've been looking for something superior and nothing has even come close, somehow I don't think SC2 will for me either, it changes all the things I thought were so amazing about BW and leaves me with the bad bits of every other RTS game I've seen in the last however many years -_-
Who knows though I haven't played it yet, I may actually enjoy it.
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let's just wait till SC2 is fully out and more balanced to see.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 28 2010 02:47 Freezard wrote:
-CS:S did definitely not replace CS.
-UT2003/UT2004/UT3 did not replace UT, there are more UT tournaments today as well as over 2000 players constantly playing on public.
-Did CoD4 replace CoD2? Did CoD5 and 6 replace CoD4? Judging by the amount of players on ClanBase for example, CoD2 still has way more players than most other online games today, and CoD4 has a ridiculous amount of players.
The thing is that, while the scene didn't *die* thanks to the sequels in each of these cases, in all cases the competitive scene was noticeably crippled by the appearance of a sequel, due to the outward bleed of both players and spectators.
I think the sentiment is not that Brood War will for certain die in the face of SC2, but that if SC2 is a good enough game to kill Brood War and live up to it's competitive legacy, it's a vastly better outcome than if SC2 *isn't* good enough to kill Brood War, and instead we have two crippled competitive scenes that both are poor successors to the current BW scene (which is what happened in the CS/Source split--both competitive scenes are alive, so to speak, but neither live up to how big the game was prior to Source's release).
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On February 28 2010 02:55 nbaker wrote:
After the hype fizzles out, people will play the game that is more fun.
My money is on Brood War
Let's replay that:
after the hype fizzles out....
Considering that there's going to be two expansion packs, the hype won't die down for at least two years, if not two and a half; it will take an additional year to see the final unit mix settle down into the 'standard play' that we now see in the SC:BW scene. Even after this, we'll still see innovations for a long while, just as we saw the emergence of the new playstyles in BW over time.
That's about 3 years that the hype/focus will be on SC2. In that time, the foreign scene will almost completely switch. The Korean leagues will work something out with blizzard. Battle.net will bring in more players with the WoW (urrrggghhh) and D3 integration - and who knows what else. Maybe there will start to be some better foreign players, and we'll start our own leagues!
Regardless, in order for an esport to succeed, there has to be a large player and spectator base. When SC2 comes out, this base for SC1 will slowly dwindle and die out. When that happens, the proleagues as we know them today won't be viable, and without the leading light of the korean scene the foreign SC players won't have something to aim for, which will lead to the death of the foreign scene, if it hasn't switched already.
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EPT
