The reason I'm posting this is because I, like the majority of tl.net, has probably been stigmatized to think creatine = pump your muscles with water = steroids = bad = don't use it.
Just the mention of it makes me feel as if my balls are shrinking and I'm about to inject myself with some deadly toxin. (Well not really this bad, but you get the picture.)
However, I have friends who workout everyday and take it and they say there is absolutely nothing wrong with it if used smartly in small 3-5g dosages
Maybe I should give description of myself to diagnose if using creatine can be benificial.
5'11, 160lb, Skinny bodyframe. Asian Age 20. Goal: Increase muscle mass.
Main questions for people that have taken creatine: 1) Did you use creatine every workout? 2) When you stopped using it, did you perform much worse? 3) For random kids just trying to look good (me), is it really necessary?
On February 15 2010 17:36 Xeris wrote: 160 lbs is pretty skinny for 5'11 isn't it? O_O i'm about 160 or so and only 5'9 and i'm nowhere near being fat ..
I'm 5'8 and I'm 125 ... lol I drank cretin every day before I worked out. I did this for about 2 months and gained 5 pounds =.=
I'm 5'11'' and 160. My body fat is like 8%. Initially I tried gaining muscle, but I found that to look bigger & better what I really needed to do was get toned. Choose a routine, make sure its not too hard, and stick to it. A lot of people work out a ton and overwork their body to the point where it can't repair itself.
On February 15 2010 17:36 Xeris wrote: 160 lbs is pretty skinny for 5'11 isn't it? O_O i'm about 160 or so and only 5'9 and i'm nowhere near being fat ..
Creatine is a type of complex protein that is naturally sinthesized in your body. The body makes it out of various other protein chains (protein acids). Using it in small dosages is completely harmless if you keep up your water intake so that your liver and kidneys can filter the unecessary things out.
I have never used it myself but a friend has. He got stronger when he was using it but i can't say that it stuck that much later on.
My personal opinion: Stick to regular workouts, drink whey protein shakes after your workout and have a long term plan (ie. 6 months). Stick to your schedule and after 6 months you're bound to see results. Using creatine just because someone else is and is have ZOMG amazing results doesn't justify throwing your cash to do the same. But then again, im patient when it comes to these things and i like to let my body develop with it's own natural pace. So the choice is yours
Creatine won't help you build muscle unless you already are gaining muscle mass. If you don't have an excess of calories in your diet, creatine will just make you hold more water while you're on it (gain weight), then hold a normal amount once you're off it (lose all the weight you gained).
I stacked Green Mag with Intrabolic last month and it was pretty insane how much stronger it made me. Lifting heavier weights in turn helps you build muscle more easily if you're already eating a surplus (like I was), but won't help if you're just sitting at 160. I've been lifting for 6 years, and eat completely clean, so the supplements just turned a 3lb gain month into an 8lb gain month. They won't turn a 0lb month into anything but a 0lb gain month.
I've sort of given up on the whole bodybuilding thing. I bought all the protein powders/creatine, took all that shit, but I've finally accepted after years and years of half-assing workouts/skipping days that I just don't have the will/desire to pack on muscle. It isn't enjoyable to me and I hate it. So I've thrown out all that crap and I just lift a little here and there and exercise to be healthy. Doesn't really answer your question but..thats just kind of been my experience with the whole thing.
do some proper research from several credible sources to determine under which circumstances creatine will help, how to use it, and how it works as well as possible side effects
asking a bunch of random people for their personal opinion is probably the worst way to go about making a decision.
check out glutamine as well. It's useful for body building and also helps your immune system, as well as being pretty cheap.
I recommend protein and a NOS drink for working out. Anything else is not needed to gain muscles save good meals and plenty of sleep. I recommend mixing in running to keep your metabolism up so you can pretty much eat anything you want.
Well, it's not steroids. Creatine is probably not extremely unsafe, but it is probably not as safe as not using creatine. Your balls probably will not shrink. You might put some extra strain on your kidneys and so on, and you'll almost certainly feel kind of shitty (bloating, etc.).
Frankly, there's really no need for creatine, and if you're just starting to workout it probably isn't worth it. You'll experience big gains in muscle growth without creatine, and you can definitely feel more confident in spending your money on good healthy food and maybe whey protein. Good nutrition is way more important than creatine and it has none of the potential drawbacks. I'd do that first, and then work on working out. If you're not getting the results that you want, then consider creatine.
One of the energy systems in your body is the Creatine Phosphate System. The energy unit of your body is ATP(adenosine triphosphate) Lets say hypothetically you use 10 units of ATP to do one pushup, and you have about 100 units of ATP available, which will convert to 10 pushups. When one unit of ATP is used, it loses a phosphate group becoming ADP (adenosine diphosphate). In the time of need, your muscles release enzymes to breakdown Creatine and lend creatine phosphates to ADP turning them back to ATP, this only occurs for a short period of time under stress. Which might result in an extra couple of reps during your set.
Besides that, Creatine has the ability to store a hell of a lot of water in your muscles, which is a good thing because with it comes increased uptake of nutritions into the muscles promoting faster and healthier growth.
Take creatine if you think you need the extra boost. I take it during bulking phases when I need to lift a little extra and I don't mind the slight water retention.
Google 'Creatine' do some of your own research and make up your mind, the product is safe.
Dude, seriously, do your own research on the internet, don't listen to people whom you have no idea of their knowledge base.
In my experience Creatine is a perfectly safe SUPPLEMENT, not a steroid, the same as Protein or vitamin C. It will help you a little, but it's obviously not going to make you look like a bodybuilder. if you want to gain muscle safely, I would do it, just for any advantage I could get, as I haven't read anything suggesting any negative effects. My old swim coach had just about everyone on the team on it, i don't know if it did anything, but my balls certainly didn't shrink and I was a pretty damn good swimmer.
Look it up for yourself though, getting random crowd opinion in a Starcaft forum has got to be one of the worse ways of learning about workout techniques.
On February 16 2010 00:39 sob3k wrote: Dude, seriously, do your own research on the internet, don't listen to people whom you have no idea of their knowledge base.
In my experience Creatine is a perfectly safe SUPPLEMENT, not a steroid, the same as Protein or vitamin C. It will help you a little, but it's obviously not going to make you look like a bodybuilder. if you want to gain muscle safely, I would do it, just for any advantage I could get, as I haven't read anything suggesting any negative effects. My old swim coach had just about everyone on the team on it, i don't know if it did anything, but my balls certainly didn't shrink and I was a pretty damn good swimmer.
Look it up for yourself though, getting random crowd opinion in a Starcaft forum has got to be one of the worse ways of learning about workout techniques.
Stop being a pussy. Creatine is nothing like a steroid. It's not going to shrink your balls
Even if you were taking real steroids (I did a cycle of Dianabol once), you still have to be taking high doses or for a long time to have any noticeable ball-shrinking effects.
Creatine makes your muscles hold extra water. The biggest danger that I can see in creatine is that it dehydrates you. Oooh scary. 5 mg a day won't make that much of a difference. I'm pretty sure I was taking 15 once upon a time. Drink lots of water, and you're fine.
I like how you get your trusted information from a workout site, not experts, and probably some rednecks who have no clue what they are talking about. "Hey, I observed that I took this and my balls didnt shrink! Must be safe for everyone!"
On February 16 2010 00:39 sob3k wrote: Dude, seriously, do your own research on the internet, don't listen to people whom you have no idea of their knowledge base.
In my experience Creatine is a perfectly safe SUPPLEMENT, not a steroid, the same as Protein or vitamin C. It will help you a little, but it's obviously not going to make you look like a bodybuilder. if you want to gain muscle safely, I would do it, just for any advantage I could get, as I haven't read anything suggesting any negative effects. My old swim coach had just about everyone on the team on it, i don't know if it did anything, but my balls certainly didn't shrink and I was a pretty damn good swimmer.
Look it up for yourself though, getting random crowd opinion in a Starcaft forum has got to be one of the worse ways of learning about workout techniques.
youre in that random crowd as well brah. So whyd you type all this?
On February 15 2010 19:01 Tippereth wrote: Don't take creatine: if Jaedong doesn't need it, why do you?
becouse jaedong is someone who plays computer games 24/7
This is extremely unhealthy(needless to say), even though they look fit to us I can't skip the feeling that they decrease life span by tens of years. But not for the reason many people think. Playing all day long keeps your blood in your arms and brains from your body's survival/attack/agression mode instead of the stomach lungs and other vital organs that ensure ur wellbeing. While preventing you from getting sick by building defences against disease. Being in such a stressful situation alot of times makes you very weak in the long run.
You can build up muscle without having to take any fancy supplements and waste money doing so. Only when you hit a wall should you even consider taking all this money sucking supplements ... and only if you're that serious about getting mass.
The thing with creatine and other supplements is that some of them have been "injected" with other spooky stuff to keep the customers buying it. There was a lot of incidents like that in scandinavia a few years ago, but if you get some mainstream brand that a lot of people use, I seriously doubt it will harm you.
As far as I know, creatine is found in food like beef and other types of meat, just like protein powder, this is basically just dried food.
I've used creatine several times in the past and I've never had any bad side effects at all, except for having to piss all the god damn time..and creatine is the one thing I've felt actually worked.
I've tried it. The benefits is that you have noticably more endurance for lifting. And if I did say a leg day and then ran the next day, my muscles weren't as exhausted and I could run harder than I could otherwise. I've had side effects of higher blood pressure and nosebleeds and shin splints (particularly when you first start). If your body reacts badly to it, I think you'll find out in that early adjustment phase. There are other known side effects, and of course there's always the risk of unknown long term side effects. I stopped taking it, mostly because I ran out and didn't bother to get more. I do longer workouts now, so I'm probably compensating for the performance loss. If I were long sports season which was wearing out my body, I'd definitely consider re-starting.
To assess the risk, creatine is a natural substance, so there's a lower risk of potentially dangerous side effects, short and long term. Low risk is still risk, though, whether it be drugs, diet, or other supplements.
And my familiarity with creatine is I first heard of from Mark McGwire's exploits, which made me think it was a steroid. Later when I started taking whey protein, I found my product contained creatine glutamine or whatever it is, and I got worried, so I did background research on it to see if it was steroid-level dangerous, which it wasn't. Then I found that a lot of athletes, particularly football players, take it before or after their workout, and it's not considered a problem by regulating associations.
So in summary, it will help your endurance, you can outgain its benefits out of a better workout routine, and it has some mild risks and there's no long term risk research.
On February 16 2010 00:39 sob3k wrote: Dude, seriously, do your own research on the internet, don't listen to people whom you have no idea of their knowledge base.
In my experience Creatine is a perfectly safe SUPPLEMENT, not a steroid, the same as Protein or vitamin C. It will help you a little, but it's obviously not going to make you look like a bodybuilder. if you want to gain muscle safely, I would do it, just for any advantage I could get, as I haven't read anything suggesting any negative effects. My old swim coach had just about everyone on the team on it, i don't know if it did anything, but my balls certainly didn't shrink and I was a pretty damn good swimmer.
Look it up for yourself though, getting random crowd opinion in a Starcaft forum has got to be one of the worse ways of learning about workout techniques.
youre in that random crowd as well brah. So whyd you type all this?
i can link you 1000 more cases, this is from the top of google search. I can give you my story but its same thing that happened to this guy
if youre completely healthy and your nerves are fine most likely you will gain from it. But youre taking chances
What were you taking? Creatine Mono? CEE?
A product that is a creatine product?
Creatine "products" like Green Magnitude, or Superpump250, etc, etc, are products that are based on creatine for their combination of ingredients, but are not limited to it.
Most/all of them contain caffeine, green tea, ginseng, B vitamins, and other herbal stimulants.
If you're getting heart palpitations, it's not from creatine, which is a naturally occurring protein in your body that has to do with blood volume and muscle triggers, but instead the massive number of stimulants you were taking in addition.
Many people have weaker hearts or in general should not be on stimulants. People who are underweight and are trying to gain weight (people on creatine, anyone?) generally have low calorie diets and do not get proper nutrition. Hmm... not proper nutrition + stimulants + probably dehydrated = what?
Correlation != Cause, and your correlation is spurious at best.
I don't trust any of these products. It's better, IMO, to take the natural route and consult a dietitian. They'll know how you can get the protein and calories you need in a healthy, natural form that your body knows how to process.
On February 16 2010 04:24 AwarE-- wrote: So milo, are multivitamins bad?
They all naturally occur in nature, but if I want to optimize my access to them I shouldn't take them because it's not the healthy, natural form?
What about vitamin C drinks? Are those bad?
What makes creatine supplementation any different, and please do provide evidence to back up your claims.
I said IMO - in my opinion. I need no evidence.
I am not well educated on the subject. From what I've heard, however, is that your body has an easier time getting nutrients from natural foods. So, while multivitamins et. all are good (I never said they were bad, those are your words), it's better to eat fruits and vegetables.
On February 16 2010 04:24 AwarE-- wrote: So milo, are multivitamins bad?
They all naturally occur in nature, but if I want to optimize my access to them I shouldn't take them because it's not the healthy, natural form?
What about vitamin C drinks? Are those bad?
What makes creatine supplementation any different, and please do provide evidence to back up your claims.
I said IMO - in my opinion. I need no evidence.
I am not well educated on the subject. From what I've heard, however, is that your body has an easier time getting nutrients from natural foods. So, while multivitamins et. all are good (I never said they were bad, those are your words), it's better to eat fruits and vegetables.
Ok so then in my opinion you shouldn't be talking.
1) Did you use creatine every workout? Every workout that I had any left 2) When you stopped using it, did you perform much worse? A significant amount 3) For random kids just trying to look good (me), is it really necessary? I was doing purely strength training, not trying to get ripped or anything. If you're just trying to look fit then you can easily get by without it, but if you really want to go big then it can help a lot.
If you're getting heart palpitations, it's not from creatine, which is a naturally occurring protein in your body that has to do with blood volume and muscle triggers, but instead the massive number of stimulants you were taking in addition.
Correlation != Cause, and your correlation is spurious at best.
Have you checked your statement?
Going to look it up...
A few reports suggest that the supplement creatine could, at times, cause heart arrhythmias.18
Ok, it's nice to have opinions and be able to make arguments, but don't present them as facts. If someone's had heart palpitations, that can be very dangerous. Unless you can disprove that it's caused anything, be it by a consensus of studies or by your own research experiments, don't people it's not dangerous. Because there's a chance that it could be dangerous and that people listen to you.
Just because it's an internet forum doesn't mean you should be irresponsible.
On February 16 2010 04:24 AwarE-- wrote: So milo, are multivitamins bad?
They all naturally occur in nature, but if I want to optimize my access to them I shouldn't take them because it's not the healthy, natural form?
What about vitamin C drinks? Are those bad?
What makes creatine supplementation any different, and please do provide evidence to back up your claims.
I said IMO - in my opinion. I need no evidence.
I am not well educated on the subject. From what I've heard, however, is that your body has an easier time getting nutrients from natural foods. So, while multivitamins et. all are good (I never said they were bad, those are your words), it's better to eat fruits and vegetables.
Ok so then in my opinion you shouldn't be talking.
Whoa man, chill out a bit. Not sure why you're getting in my face about this.
The OP asked a question, I answered it with what I know. More importantly, I referred him to someone who would know better - a dietitian.
On February 16 2010 05:03 AwarE-- wrote: A few reports suggest that the supplement creatine could, at times, cause heart arrhythmias.18
Posted on a site dedicated to herbal natural products.
... ...
seriously?
link to the actual study or quiet.
This isn't a referendum on your existence or your self-esteem; I'm not sure why you're taking it so personally. It's not like you're selling the stuff or are an advocate for the creatine industry.
After re-reading my own post, it seems there's a source from a publication called Pharmacology. Second, someone presents an individual case, and you're the one who rejected it with some made up common knowledge argument. If you think anyone who reads this is going to accept your conclusions just because, then feel free not to post your own sources.
BTW OP the internet is a terrible place to ask questions like this because you'll get a bunch of beefcake testosterone-fueled nerds who think they know everything talking like their opinions are facts, and get super butthurt when someone disagrees with them. Do your research, ask some physical trainers, doctor, etc
Creatine is very safe unless you have kidney issues. I read that 1/3 of english soccer players use creatine regularly. Creatine is a naturally occurring substance in your body and therefore it's legal. You could get the same quantities that you get from a supplement if you were to eat like 10 lbs of meat daily.
Creatine doesn't do THAT much after all but can definately help you get stronger at certain points. It helps you get a couple of extra reps in etc. It also binds water so it can give you a little moonface, but not really noticeable.
I've used creatine myself and it helps a little. It's one of the best, legal supplements if you want to add on muscle. At least in Sweden it can be bought everywhere; gym, stores, webshops etc. Like people have pointed out though, there's no research on creatine use over a longer time. Then again I don't really see a point in using creatine for a long period of time without breaks or stopping completely. Use it as a tool to soldier through plateus in weight lifting. I don't recommend it for running etc because it adds some lbs of water to your body weight.
Creatine has nothing to do with steroids. At all. The mechanisms are as different as can be.
aware--, you sound like a complete retard, calm your inner nerd please
theres man people posting on different forums about having palpitations/racing heartbeat from using creatine
what youve said could be partly true, its not alwas necessarily creatine, but suggesting caffeine to cause this is pretty dumb. Obviously those people would already know if caffeine causes any discomfort
i ran track and did muay thai which was really intense, it isnt a "weak heart"( w/e that means rofl)
even trainers have heard of this problem so stop spewing please. Ive used protein with no creatine and then switched to something else( wasnt just creatine difference but thats what stuck out on the list of ingredients)
bottom line the OP will be using one of the widely available products which probably isnt "pure creatine"
anyone who thinks you can boost your form like that without any consequences is a fool. Nothing comes out of nowhere, but i agree, theres no reason not to try it if ure completely healthy and want that improvement right away
You know when you're done working out and you're pumped and you wish you looked like that? That's pretty much how your mucles will look un-pumped, on creatine. They will gain a lot of size, and it will make you feel good and motivated to keep working out, at least it made me really happy :p
God dammit. Reading through this thread made me first want to use creatine, then it made me think creatine is bad, and now I'm back towards leaning to wanting to use it.
I work out regularly on a schedule and use whey protein but I am building almost no mass. I try to take in enough calories as well but I really should concentrate on my diet first before looking for any other supplementation.
Kinda hard though when you don't have a kitchen and are reliant upon dorm cafeteria food.
On February 16 2010 02:07 daz wrote: it can help your gains and has no negative side effects so basically theres no reason not to take it
read above
or google something
your life must be so easy lawl
I was in same position as op before (considering whether or not to take creatine). Instead of asking for advice on a brood war website, I spent several hours researching it myself. The previous post was a bit of an oversimplification but still reflects the results of my own research.
On February 16 2010 07:51 Jonoman92 wrote: God dammit. Reading through this thread made me first want to use creatine, then it made me think creatine is bad, and now I'm back towards leaning to wanting to use it.
I work out regularly on a schedule and use whey protein but I am building almost no mass. I try to take in enough calories as well but I really should concentrate on my diet first before looking for any other supplementation.
Kinda hard though when you don't have a kitchen and are reliant upon dorm cafeteria food.
I was never under the impression that creatine is used to build mass and look nicer. It allows you to work out harder and longer, and recover faster. It might be able to help you indirectly, but it's not the magic bullet that people are looking for. If your reasoning is, I'm working out and I'm not big, if I take creatine and work out will I get huge, it's probably not going to work out well.
I'm not qualified to talk about body building, but I'm sure it will be more helpful than creatine. When I've gained mass its from working out longer (went from 45 minutes to 90), more regularly (6 days a week, no skipping), and having better workouts.
EPT
