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"I honestly don't think I can out snipe you..."
This is what my friend told me today after several matches of 1v1 Halo 3. He plays everyday and follows MLG like I follow Starcraft -- he takes it very seriously.
I literally play Halo games like twice a year... 0_o
I'm not trying to brag here but the thing is, I know he is a great Halo player, and he rolled me every match in 1v1 like 25 - 7, 25 -11 etc...
But I was getting kills. Not flukes, just basic Halo 3 gameplay. And when we played Sniper/BRs, our sniping battles were pretty much on the same level. He would win the matches but was kind of in shock in how he was dying.
He basically told me that I would have won if I used my battle rifle when I was supposed to (i never brought it out because I just wanted to practice sniping.)
I mean, I still know he's a lot better than me. But doesn't anyone think that these console based shooters are just really, really shallow?
Like, if I faced a seasoned Counter-Strike veteran I wouldn't be able to get a single kill off of him -- ever. The skill range is huge.
But it seems like in Halo it's just some basic mechanics. There's no recoil to control, no bullet spread to master, it's floaty, you are accurate when moving and jumping, you toss grenades out like candy, and there's a freakin aim assist.
halo just feels like it really was built strictly for casual play (for which I think it is a very well made game).
i dont know, no offense to any halo players. i feel the same way about modern warfare 2 -- just a shallow, shallow game dressed up in rewards and achievements.
iono why i made this, i just get depressed realizing that nearly all FPS is going down this route. and i'm getting sick of meeting every single person at my school who plays MW2 telling me how pro they are.
  
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I agree, Halo is pretty bad. Nothing else to say lol
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Halo games were made that way so when the jocks play them they can hold their bud light or make sure their cap is on backwards without letting go of the control.
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short question, r u talking about playing on console here or computer?
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On January 14 2010 19:25 MorroW wrote:
short question, r u talking about playing on console here or computer?
console
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Halo 2 didnt have all that junk?? weird. I havent tried Halo 3 yet, but I used to play Halo 2 with Walshy and the Ogres and all them, thanks to being around some of them being friends in War3.
I think its the most fun FPS game regardless, and the top level players are truely top notch. Im just gonna assume your friend is not that good despite watching all those MLG matches and stuff, because when I played against them (and I was pretty high up on ladder) It was difficult to take hardly any kills vs the top progamers. Maybe a lucky sticky hit, but they would kill me almost instantly as soon as they got in sight. Friggin I took part in some of their inhouse practice sessions, they would do hour long games of throwing stickies across the map, and they would land them more often than not. It was rediculous.
Again, Dont think the game is "harder" than CS or so, but I'd rate it the #2 FPS for progaming. Remember, its in space, its suppose to be "floaty".. The skill gap is still large as fuck between the top gamers and your average gamer, just like Korean SC vs foreigners. If it was so easy, there'd be more people than the Ogres winning EVERY tournament.
(based on my experiences with Halo 2, never played Halo 3 yet so dont know the changes but I cant see it being that drastic..)
Halo, its a game where its friendly to casuals, so you can actually play and not die to the majority of players, but its hard to get to the top. You have to remember when "comparing" games, that CS is a 10 year old game, its whole system is hard to grasp for beginners, such as hotkeys, etc. Halo is easy to pick up, and its not just instant headshot every second like CS (mostly due to people modding the hitbox size, which obviously you can't do on console games)
To even play CS compettiively, you have to enter in all the scripts or you basically have no chance. Increasing FPS, etc. That stuff that beginners dont know about, gives them such a disadvantage.
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Zurich15329 Posts
For someone who is completely ignorant towards consoles, how do you even play FPS on a console? How do you aim without a mouse? I can't really picture it.
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Yeah.. I hate non PC FPS.. it feels so... weird.
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On January 14 2010 19:30 zatic wrote:
For someone who is completely ignorant towards consoles, how do you even play FPS on a console? How do you aim without a mouse? I can't really picture it.
It's hard for us in Europe to understand  In USA Halo 3 is like the most popular console game lol
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The fact you are losing 25-7 or 25-11 is evidence enough in itself. You never said your friend was playing MLG, only that he followed it. That is not an accurate depiction of his skill level. There is quite a noticeable skill gap when jumping from casual play to the hardcore MLG players - yet yes, the game is more catered to casual players than something like counterstrike. But why are you comparing it to counterstrike in the first place? If you're taking someone in counterstrike as a similar skill level as your friend, who is most likely not professional and just plays daily (to the same extent you or I play starcraft daily) I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a few kills.
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On January 14 2010 19:30 zatic wrote:
For someone who is completely ignorant towards consoles, how do you even play FPS on a console? How do you aim without a mouse? I can't really picture it.
you dont have to aim because there's auto aim
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Here in the United States, anyone who plays Halo regularly is a douche lord.
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On January 14 2010 19:30 zatic wrote:
For someone who is completely ignorant towards consoles, how do you even play FPS on a console? How do you aim without a mouse? I can't really picture it.
You just jiggle your joystick like your masturbating and if you happen to get lucky and hit, you call it skill.
Further than that, console shooters are awfully slow and inaccurate. I have a friend who used to play me occasionally in CS (1.3 back then lol) and when CS:S was released he switched there because "it's way more realistic", yeah. Then he'd ask me for 1on1s there and i x-0'd him without having played CS:S a single time in my life. Soon after that he moved to XBOX shooters, telling me how how hard he'd rape my face in Halo 2. I had the same experience as the OP, losing the overall series but very close and getting some incredibly pro looking frags.
That being said, if somebody is telling you he's pro at some console shooter, he is lying. You can't be pro (skillwise) at something where nothing than luck decides the outcome.
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As a former Halo player and a long time MLG fan, I can agree with you that Halo 3 lacks almost any depth as a 1v1 title. It does gain quite a bit of depth when played in a 4v4 setting, but still nothing close to a game like SC.
Halo 3 was a game designed to limit competitive play. Bungie denies this vigorously, but it most long time competitive players agree. Smoothness of strafe, accurate weaponry (the BR does have spread within each 3 round burst), speed of movement and good maps are all lacking in Halo 3. From a competitive standpoint, it is by far the weakest game in the series. Halo 2 and Halo:CE were both much stronger games from a competitive standpoint.
I will start by giving a brief overview of Halo:CE. It was the first truly 'mid paced' shooter for a console. It was not a tactical game like RB6 or CS, but it was clearly not on the speed of Quake or Unreal. The weapons killed very quickly, had almost no auto aim and required precise leading at range. 'Power weapons' were amazingly strong, but the starting weapon was powerful enough to allow you a fighting chance if you were good enough. The spawn system was simple in theory but in practice took a lot of game knowledge, awareness and talent to use to your advantage. The individual skill gap was massively high.
Then came Halo 2. The game had slowed down. The beloved starting weapon of the first game had been taken away and replaced with a new competitive starting weapon, movement speed was slowed and grenades/melees were weakened. After a patch and creative glitch finding, the game managed to become competitively solid in its own right though. A slightly slower paced game, it was no longer possible for one player to simply out-skill an entire other team. As such, individual talent took a step back and stood beside teamwork as the most important factor. As things were figured out, such as the spawn system, how to collect weapons efficiently, etc, the game became more and more deep, eventually becoming a highly competitive 4v4 game, as well as a decent 1v1 game.
Then came Halo 3. Bungie liked the direction towards teamwork that Halo 2 had taken, but did not seem to realize that they had already hit the ideal formula. Instead of sticking with the balance they had, they decided to remove many of the things which allowed individual players to shine, forcing the game more towards team play. 1v1 is no longer a valid gametype and 4v4 has become a different experience. Honestly, the game is damn near unrecognizable from the tower of individual skill that was Halo:CE. Instead the aspects of the game that allowed technical ability and individual thinking to shine were purposely stripped to try and force teamwork down everybodies throats.
All in all, you are right. Halo 3 is an incredibly shallow game, largely because people seem to assume that you have to force teamwork as the defining feature of a game now days. Non-competitive (or casually competitive) gamers do not like getting completely stomped to the ground by somebody with vastly superior mechanics, so it was stripped from the game.
The only thing I can really say is that I am sure that your friend would seem much more impressive if you watched him play or played against him as part of organized teams, since that is the only real measure of any sort of skill left in that game.
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On January 14 2010 19:41 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 19:30 zatic wrote:
For someone who is completely ignorant towards consoles, how do you even play FPS on a console? How do you aim without a mouse? I can't really picture it. You just jiggle your joystick like your masturbating and if you happen to get lucky and hit, you call it skill. Further than that, console shooters are awfully slow and inaccurate. I have a friend who used to play me occasionally in CS (1.3 back then lol) and when CS:S was released he switched there because "it's way more realistic", yeah. Then he'd ask me for 1on1s there and i x-0'd him without having played CS:S a single time in my life. Soon after that he moved to XBOX shooters, telling me how how hard he'd rape my face in Halo 2. I had the same experience as the OP, losing the overall series but very close and getting some incredibly pro looking frags. That being said, if somebody is telling you he's pro at some console shooter, he is lying. You can't be pro (skillwise) at something where nothing than luck decides the outcome.
Clearly you found this thread as an excuse to brag about how naturally talented you must be at first person shooters. Your friend is very bad at both CS:Source and halo if what you've written is true.
To the OP, think about the average guy on TL who watches pro sc matches. A lot of them are D- are even worse. Think about how much skill level there is between D- and pro level in starcraft. Now it might not be quite as extreme in Halo, but I'm sure a huge skill gap still exists.
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On January 14 2010 19:30 zatic wrote:
For someone who is completely ignorant towards consoles, how do you even play FPS on a console? How do you aim without a mouse? I can't really picture it.
I tried this at a friends house having played computer games all my life and it was sooo awkward lol
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I've never played Halo strangely enough... even though it was widely popular all around me, it jsut never occurred to me.
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Baa?21243 Posts
I am baffled by how people use controllers for...well...anything except, like, Super Smash lol. Mouse keyboard any day.
And yes, Halo is a ridiculously easy game lol. I am totally clueless with consoles, and I could shoot and move randomly and get kills off people. Which, as OP pointed out, would be impossible in a different game :\
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I cant even play Mass Effect on a damn gamepad and MLG is terrible to be frank.
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On January 14 2010 19:51 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 19:41 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:On January 14 2010 19:30 zatic wrote:
For someone who is completely ignorant towards consoles, how do you even play FPS on a console? How do you aim without a mouse? I can't really picture it. You just jiggle your joystick like your masturbating and if you happen to get lucky and hit, you call it skill. Further than that, console shooters are awfully slow and inaccurate. I have a friend who used to play me occasionally in CS (1.3 back then lol) and when CS:S was released he switched there because "it's way more realistic", yeah. Then he'd ask me for 1on1s there and i x-0'd him without having played CS:S a single time in my life. Soon after that he moved to XBOX shooters, telling me how how hard he'd rape my face in Halo 2. I had the same experience as the OP, losing the overall series but very close and getting some incredibly pro looking frags. That being said, if somebody is telling you he's pro at some console shooter, he is lying. You can't be pro (skillwise) at something where nothing than luck decides the outcome. Clearly you found this thread as an excuse to brag about how naturally talented you must be at first person shooters. Your friend is very bad at both CS:Source and halo if what you've written is true. To the OP, think about the average guy on TL who watches pro sc matches. A lot of them are D- are even worse. Think about how much skill level there is between D- and pro level in starcraft. Now it might not be quite as extreme in Halo, but I'm sure a huge skill gap still exists.
You didn't get my point, which was games getting dumbed down and console FPS being pointless anyway, due to lack of accuracy. Given the information in the PM I sent you, I think you should go figure why it is extremely ridiculous my friend couldn't get even one frag off of me in CS:S while winning the series in Halo 2.
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about 3 years ago i played halo for 3 months then i always headshot in no-time. its true that it autoaims and the grenades are super easy to throw. however the game is so fucking fun man, second best game after sc  i dont play it anymore tho
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In 1v1 Halo you gotta get both the sniper and rocket launcher and just camp a corner of the map.
Can't get at you with vehicles, can't get at you on foot.
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You cant really compare CS:S on a mouse and keyboard vs Halo 2 on a gamepad. Unless your referring to the PC version. A mouse and keyboard would always be more precise even if your horrid at aiming, using a gamepad requires autoaim if you were on point. Try playing a gather with everyone using controllers on 1.6, it will be epic.
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I don't know if COD:Modern Warfare 2 is meant to be as easy as halo 3 is or if all console shooters are very bad, but I went over to my mate's place after he'd been playing it on his 360 for ages with all his friends and online. I lost the first round by one death and won the second round. Then we just decided to play ssbb :D
But really, I haven't played a console shooter since 2006(?) and that was only one occasion during that year.
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Penny is good at Halo, too.
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I miss the days of Quake 3. I haven't played a shooter that fast paced in ages.
Fortunately SC still keeps it up in the RTS world.
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On January 14 2010 19:19 Zoler wrote:
I agree, Halo is pretty bad. Nothing else to say lol
=) true
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On January 14 2010 23:38 leejas wrote:
I miss the days of Quake 3. I haven't played a shooter that fast paced in ages.
Fortunately SC still keeps it up in the RTS world.
soo true.. I mss too, the days when Iw as playing Team Fortress Classic like, non-stop.
God this game was awesome (still awesome, just not payling as much as 3-4 years back  )
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lol of course your gonna get random kills in halo just like in sc you can cheese/get lucky and get some random wins. You think your good at halo because you took a few kills off some random newb? Thats like saying "apparently I'm good at StarCraft because i took a game off a c- kid on iccup who follows progaming and practices every day, even though i lost the series".
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United States47024 Posts
On January 15 2010 00:28 Pengu1n wrote:
lol of course your gonna get random kills in halo just like in sc you can cheese/get lucky and get some random wins. You think your good at halo because you took a few kills off some random newb? Thats like saying "apparently I'm good at StarCraft because i took a game off a c- kid on iccup who follows progaming and practices every day, even though i lost the series".
It's still pretty obvious though that someone who's never played StarCraft regularly and only plays twice a year is almost never going to take a game off a C- player. Even if they're cheesing every game, a C- player has enough experience that he shouldn't lose outright to poorly executed, sub-D- cheese, and from there should be able to win.
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On January 14 2010 23:38 leejas wrote:
I miss the days of Quake 3. I haven't played a shooter that fast paced in ages.
Fortunately SC still keeps it up in the RTS world.
Yeh man, i play QL but it's really just not the same as Q3.
Console fps sickens me. Autoaim? Yeh, we call that cheating . =(
Maybe i should write a guide on how to not suck at QL so we can get more players :D
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On January 14 2010 19:30 zatic wrote:
For someone who is completely ignorant towards consoles, how do you even play FPS on a console? How do you aim without a mouse? I can't really picture it.
Everyone has played goldeneye on n64 right? It's kinda like that, it clumsy and bad compared to mouse and keyboard. It just takes some getting used to.
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I guess people aren't getting my point.
I'm not trying to bash Halo here, I think it's a very fine game. But on a competitive level I think it's pretty basic.
Not that it can't be hilariously fun or anything, but I think that compared to other shooters Halo is much less demanding.
I mean I watched the pro MLG videos and it's simply not impressive. Yeah they are good, they are faster and more accurate -- but the game is so limited that's about all you'll notice.
if you told me they were amateur players I'd believe you too.
would i be able to kill these guys? of course not, but that's not really what i'm getting at here.
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Everyone is good at Halo. You can't suck at easy games.
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On January 14 2010 19:46 Bearigator wrote:
As a former Halo player and a long time MLG fan, I can agree with you that Halo 3 lacks almost any depth as a 1v1 title. It does gain quite a bit of depth when played in a 4v4 setting, but still nothing close to a game like SC.
Halo 3 was a game designed to limit competitive play. Bungie denies this vigorously, but it most long time competitive players agree. Smoothness of strafe, accurate weaponry (the BR does have spread within each 3 round burst), speed of movement and good maps are all lacking in Halo 3. From a competitive standpoint, it is by far the weakest game in the series. Halo 2 and Halo:CE were both much stronger games from a competitive standpoint.
I will start by giving a brief overview of Halo:CE. It was the first truly 'mid paced' shooter for a console. It was not a tactical game like RB6 or CS, but it was clearly not on the speed of Quake or Unreal. The weapons killed very quickly, had almost no auto aim and required precise leading at range. 'Power weapons' were amazingly strong, but the starting weapon was powerful enough to allow you a fighting chance if you were good enough. The spawn system was simple in theory but in practice took a lot of game knowledge, awareness and talent to use to your advantage. The individual skill gap was massively high.
Then came Halo 2. The game had slowed down. The beloved starting weapon of the first game had been taken away and replaced with a new competitive starting weapon, movement speed was slowed and grenades/melees were weakened. After a patch and creative glitch finding, the game managed to become competitively solid in its own right though. A slightly slower paced game, it was no longer possible for one player to simply out-skill an entire other team. As such, individual talent took a step back and stood beside teamwork as the most important factor. As things were figured out, such as the spawn system, how to collect weapons efficiently, etc, the game became more and more deep, eventually becoming a highly competitive 4v4 game, as well as a decent 1v1 game.
Then came Halo 3. Bungie liked the direction towards teamwork that Halo 2 had taken, but did not seem to realize that they had already hit the ideal formula. Instead of sticking with the balance they had, they decided to remove many of the things which allowed individual players to shine, forcing the game more towards team play. 1v1 is no longer a valid gametype and 4v4 has become a different experience. Honestly, the game is damn near unrecognizable from the tower of individual skill that was Halo:CE. Instead the aspects of the game that allowed technical ability and individual thinking to shine were purposely stripped to try and force teamwork down everybodies throats.
All in all, you are right. Halo 3 is an incredibly shallow game, largely because people seem to assume that you have to force teamwork as the defining feature of a game now days. Non-competitive (or casually competitive) gamers do not like getting completely stomped to the ground by somebody with vastly superior mechanics, so it was stripped from the game.
The only thing I can really say is that I am sure that your friend would seem much more impressive if you watched him play or played against him as part of organized teams, since that is the only real measure of any sort of skill left in that game.
Your Halo analysis is awful.
Halo2 vs Halo3
Halo2 in itself had a retarded array of weapons that were extremely imbalanced. Although there are MLG presets for both games, the standard weapons in Halo2 were very imbalanced. The strength of the battle rifle in Halo2 raped god knows everything, the sniper was significantly more powerful, etc. Autoaim made the sniper rifle godly in nearly anyone's hands with possibly the most autoaim ever given to any FPS. Your friggin' targeting reticule STOPPED over the other person's body/head when aimed at it. You could have a massively delayed reaction in shooting and still get a headshot simply because your reticule stopped on their head.
Halo3 toned down both the battle rifle and sniper rifle (aka autoaim) in Halo3, took away the plasma pistol/BR combo which plagued ladder matches, etc. The sword has also been toned down from it's previously insta-kill everything abilities.
Since when has 1v1 EVER been a relatively valid gametype for FPS games? Even if so, as there are so many games right now I'm fully aware I'm not considering, Halo/Halo2/Halo3 were ALL designed as team games. Not for individual 1v1.
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EPT
