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I set my alarm this morning for 7:45 am. I decided to hit snooze a few times, even though my first class was at 8:30..... So, I was late for class.
I walked into the very first class for this course this semester. The prof sees me walk in, and before I get to any seat, and shouts at me to hold on. He points at the example question on the screen and asks me to solve it before I can sit down.
I can't remember the exact question, but it is involving the buying and selling of bonds, and optimizing the investment to gain the largest monetary return above the MARR.
So, first thing I do is setup the equations properly (making them if needed). The price of the bond vs the interest rate of them can be simplified into a single equation, for instance.
I then take the gradient of the two equations that I cannot further simplify. I find where these are equal to zero, which are the optimized positions (having already clarified that I was excluding any interest rate equal to 0 or below, since the interest rate and price of the bond are in an inverse relationship, among other things). All this time, the prof is just letting me do my thing.
I find two local maximums/minimums/saddle points/inflection points/whatever else they can be, and I also find that as any of the variables approach infinity, or zero, the return on the investment approaches zero. So, I then check the derivative of the gradients to figure out what they are. Both end up being local maximums, so, as such, I plug both answers into the equation for the profit, and find that both are very close values, but one is larger. The question is dealing with hundreds of millions of dollars btw. The difference between these two answers is less than 60 dollars. One of the interest rates I found was around 4.5%, the other was around 5.5%, and the Par for the bond was 5%.
Anyways, when I give him my answer, he goes onto the next slide. The answer that he found was through a very simple formula, after making a certain assumption based on the situation at hand. He looked at me and said "you clearly didn't do the reading I assigned through the email", or something of the sort. The answer he got was the 4.5% answer. It earned a bit of laughter from the rest of the class.
I look around, and I don't see anyone I recognize from any of my other classes. Something is starting to feel wrong about this.....
I then looked at the answers I had, and saw that the one for 5.5% that I had was actually the higher value, not the lower. I ask him to check the answer using the numbers I found. He also got a higher value than using his equations to find the numbers for it.
At this point, he's actually looking a little shocked. I then ask him what class this actually is.
"ADM 4 _ _ _" A fourth year financial management class.
I tell him "Oops, I'm in the wrong class. I'm a second year engineering student".....
He laughs at this, and tells me that if I gave that answer on a test, he'd give me more than 100% on that answer. He then goes to pour over why his method gave him a different answer, even though they were stupidly close, and little point in actually figuring out why they were different.....
I leave, and step into the classroom I'm supposed to be in (right next door). I've missed nearly 30 minutes of that class.....
Why the fuck did I go into engineering? I'm failing, or coming close to it in my classes, and that looked like a fucking breeze.....
Oh, wait, I remember. I'm in it for this:
That's right bitches! One ring to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them!
+ Show Spoiler +On January 13 2010 09:32 lMPERVlOUS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 09:16 starfries wrote:On January 13 2010 08:39 lMPERVlOUS wrote:On January 13 2010 08:26 starfries wrote:
And you can solve most any finance problems if you just know how to take derivatives... I think any math major could walk into a engineering/economics/finance/physics class on the first day and have a good stab at the question (not that I'm a math major) Short of not knowing the correct terminology, and any shortcuts, a math major could probably walk into any other math major's class and at least be able to give it a shot..... On the first day at least, and it sounds like that's what you did... you did the math the long way and got the right answer, while the prof had magic finance formulas. In the fourth year econ and physics courses I've taken a lot of it is learning shortcuts. If you can set up the right equations for the problem you've basically done most of the hard work... btw you should definitely stick with engineering, even if you are thinking of doing finance. Half of the recruiters at engineering career are from finance companies looking for smart math kids. Actually, I'm not that brilliant in math..... It just happened that I understand optimization techniques really well. I still failed Cal III after all..... And, having thought of it, I think I figured out how I made a mistake..... I assumed that the years were a continuous variable (even though they weren't)..... I should have assumed it was a step function, which would have made the question unsolvable (at least, I don't have a clue how to solve that)..... If the prof's formulas were to take that into account (not that I see how that would be accomplished, but I dunno), his answer may have been higher than mine would have been..... Fuck..... EDIT - Actually, now I'm not sure how I got the same answer as the prof? Maybe I was close enough to an integer?
 
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You have a very bizarre sense of priorities ^_^.
Though this story has some great things in it. Thanks for sharing.
My program gets me this
What does YOURS get you!? Let's compare notes.
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yeah business/finance classes are  if you understand basic calculus.
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hahaha you just shit all over that class.
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Interesting read. By the title I thought you'd be an engineering student frustrated with his choice of education... Like me.
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On January 13 2010 05:03 ella_guru wrote:You have a very bizarre sense of priorities ^_^. Though this story has some great things in it. Thanks for sharing. My program gets me this What does YOURS get you!? Let's compare notes.
I do have a very bizarre sense of priorities. That's why I'm going to the LAN on the weekend instead of going out to another party I was invited to, which could likely get me laid..... Ah, well.
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Wait, arent you in civil engineering....?
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Lol, engineering sounds awesome; hmm
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On January 13 2010 05:15 ella_guru wrote:
Wait, arent you in civil engineering....?
Yes. The class I was on my way to was on surveying.
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That one doesn't really count : (
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Calgary25981 Posts
On January 13 2010 05:03 ella_guru wrote:You have a very bizarre sense of priorities ^_^. Though this story has some great things in it. Thanks for sharing. My program gets me this What does YOURS get you!? Let's compare notes.
Your program gets you a guitar? You know you can just buy those, right?
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On January 13 2010 05:18 ella_guru wrote:
That one doesn't really count : (
why not?
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On January 13 2010 05:21 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 05:03 ella_guru wrote:You have a very bizarre sense of priorities ^_^. Though this story has some great things in it. Thanks for sharing. My program gets me this What does YOURS get you!? Let's compare notes. Your program gets you a guitar? You know you can just buy those, right?
Its a magic guitar ^_^
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On January 13 2010 05:24 TheNearl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 05:21 Chill wrote:On January 13 2010 05:03 ella_guru wrote:You have a very bizarre sense of priorities ^_^. Though this story has some great things in it. Thanks for sharing. My program gets me this What does YOURS get you!? Let's compare notes. Your program gets you a guitar? You know you can just buy those, right? Its a magic guitar ^_^
I doubt it. Magic doesn't exist
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On January 13 2010 05:21 Chill wrote:
Your program gets you a guitar? You know you can just buy those, right?
Yes but mine is especially lovely. It's a magic guitar!
Impervious is just famed for his pride in engineering, though I think it's a bit unfounded in that we should just enjoy our own pursuits instead of LOLShitting on everyone else.
It's very unbecoming. I mean, if we all went to school to do the most 'labour intensive' major on paper, it wouldn't be civil engineering. Excellence in ANY subject is difficult.
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On January 13 2010 05:26 Foucault wrote:
I doubt it. Magic doesn't exist
It does if you believe, of course ^_^.
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But dude! The opposite happens for me! My professor was a purely theoretical "black magic" kind of economist who didn't feel it was appropriate to actually talk about math. Made my head explode.
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On January 13 2010 05:26 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 05:24 TheNearl wrote:On January 13 2010 05:21 Chill wrote:On January 13 2010 05:03 ella_guru wrote:You have a very bizarre sense of priorities ^_^. Though this story has some great things in it. Thanks for sharing. My program gets me this What does YOURS get you!? Let's compare notes. Your program gets you a guitar? You know you can just buy those, right? Its a magic guitar ^_^ I doubt it. Magic doesn't exist
Oh, sorry I forgot. Thanks for pointing that out
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damn right
order of the engineer
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On January 13 2010 05:33 KOFgokuon wrote:
damn right
order of the engineer
That's just a copycat of us Canadians you know.....
The real story!
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The real story behind music involves castles and dames. Dames.
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Who cares?
allow me to explain why I said who cares. Your math is much harder than business'. But that's like an english major mocking you for your grammar.
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On January 13 2010 05:28 ella_guru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 05:21 Chill wrote:
Your program gets you a guitar? You know you can just buy those, right? It's very unbecoming. I mean, if we all went to school to do the most 'labour intensive' major on paper, it wouldn't be civil engineering. Excellence in ANY subject is difficult.
He's right you know, it's not about who has a harder program than the other person. But to be fair, my engineering is harder than yours ^_^_^_^_^_^__^_^_^_^
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On January 13 2010 05:40 DamageControL wrote:
Who cares?
allow me to explain why I said who cares. Your math is much harder than business'. But that's like an english major mocking you for your grammar.
+1
Hah, bravo. Let's all learn to love our lack of skill outside our expertise.
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On January 13 2010 05:40 DamageControL wrote:
But that's like an english major mocking you for your grammar.
LOL. Chef's done that to me already.....
On January 13 2010 05:40 DamageControL wrote:
Your math is much harder than business'.
Oh, I know. And they have things to do with their program that I would probably go nuts trying to figure out as well. My mind is wired differently, that doesn't make me any better than someone else though.
How conceited do you think I am?
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On January 13 2010 05:44 lMPERVlOUS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 05:40 DamageControL wrote:
Who cares?
allow me to explain why I said who cares. Your math is much harder than business'. But that's like an english major mocking you for your grammar. LOL. Chef's done that to me already.....
^^; don't be like chef!
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On January 13 2010 05:45 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 05:44 lMPERVlOUS wrote:On January 13 2010 05:40 DamageControL wrote:
Who cares?
allow me to explain why I said who cares. Your math is much harder than business'. But that's like an english major mocking you for your grammar. LOL. Chef's done that to me already..... ^^; don't be like chef!
One can't be like chef ^__^
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I was giving a literary analysis of one of his many beer chants. That's hardly looking down on someone's grammar :O
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1st!
edit: hmm i guess im last....
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You've all got nothing on a Philosophy student.
When I graduate I get any one of these:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Since when does grammar come into play in a beer chant though?
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On January 13 2010 05:51 lMPERVlOUS wrote:
Since when does grammar come into play in a beer chant though?
cus im so cool.
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On January 13 2010 05:51 TheLardyGooser wrote:You've all got nothing on a Philosophy student. When I graduate I get any one of these: + Show Spoiler +
Wait, are the two guys on the right the same guy?!
That'd be cool if you could split yourself into two , with the power of PHILOSOPHY!!
@ Wish. Lol man : )
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On January 13 2010 05:51 TheLardyGooser wrote:You've all got nothing on a Philosophy student. When I graduate I get any one of these: + Show Spoiler +
I spy obama....
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Calgary25981 Posts
I still don't believe this story btw. It reaks of GoSu. Let me paraphrase:
- I walked into the wrong class.
- I got singled out for being late.
- I solved the fourth-year problem despite not knowing any of the material or equations.
- Further, I left the class wondering how I had found a solution better suited than the professor's.
- Also the professor told me he would give me more than 100% on that question.
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such a baller story, need to front page this asap. OP you're the man
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It does sound a little too baller, though it is the first day of a course and some students are that gosu. If it's true, props.
That ring looks so sexy. Only 2.5 more years until it's mine! Muahahaha.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
this blog could have been made into a movie in the early 90's and it woulda kicked ass.
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On January 13 2010 06:11 Chill wrote:
I still don't believe this story btw. It reaks of GoSu. Let me paraphrase:
- I walked into the wrong class.
- I got singled out for being late.
- I solved the fourth-year problem despite not knowing any of the material or equations.
- Further, I left the class wondering how I had found a solution better suited than the professor's.
- Also the professor told me he would give me more than 100% on that question.
Don't forget he's going to a lan instead of going to another party where he could get laid.
Sorry Imp 
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^ HAHAHA
While being on the brink of failing, he still manages to get 100% on a 4th year question.
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On January 13 2010 06:11 Chill wrote:
I still don't believe this story btw. It reaks of GoSu. Let me paraphrase:
- I walked into the wrong class.
- I got singled out for being late.
- I solved the fourth-year problem despite not knowing any of the material or equations.
- Further, I left the class wondering how I had found a solution better suited than the professor's.
- Also the professor told me he would give me more than 100% on that question.
I'm with this. He also left out a lot of detail in the problem and haphazardly threw around some complicated math jargon that most people wouldn't question, but I'm not most people. More detail on the problem would be nice, and it sounds like you wrote it down, so lets see it!
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u kno wats really fockin sad right? these financial whizzes will be the ones buying your, company, downsizing your company (which means firing your bosses or telling your bosses to fire you), and/or being your boss in a few years.
and to think that you're smarter than them... lol
go into banking you earn more and there are hotter girls there anyhow
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On January 13 2010 05:54 ella_guru wrote:Wait, are the two guys on the right the same guy?! That'd be cool if you could split yourself into two , with the power of PHILOSOPHY!! @ Wish. Lol man : )
nah the guy on the far right is definitely Barack Obama, but I don't know who other black man fooo is.
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How come Canadians get cool ritualistic rings? Why can't Australian engineering give those  .
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
I agree, engineering rules. My grandfather, my uncles, most of my cousins and my dad are all engineers; I broke tradition and now I am paying the price for such sacrilege.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
On January 13 2010 06:49 RisingTide wrote:How come Canadians get cool ritualistic rings? Why can't Australian engineering give those .
anyone can, just make ur own : ) - anyway the trend is picking up elsewhere too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Engineer
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On January 13 2010 06:21 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 06:11 Chill wrote:
I still don't believe this story btw. It reaks of GoSu. Let me paraphrase:
- I walked into the wrong class.
- I got singled out for being late.
- I solved the fourth-year problem despite not knowing any of the material or equations.
- Further, I left the class wondering how I had found a solution better suited than the professor's.
- Also the professor told me he would give me more than 100% on that question.
Don't forget he's going to a lan instead of going to another party where he could get laid. Sorry Imp
No you're not.
@ Chill, and anyone else - I expected criticism. I honestly didn't expect to get an answer, but when I looked at it, it reminded me of stuff from Cal III + economics. I just thought I misread my course code.....
Btw, I failed Cal III..... Just found out this afternoon..... I just got back from having a few drinks to numb the sting of it.....
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On January 13 2010 06:32 TheNearl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 06:11 Chill wrote:
I still don't believe this story btw. It reaks of GoSu. Let me paraphrase:
- I walked into the wrong class.
- I got singled out for being late.
- I solved the fourth-year problem despite not knowing any of the material or equations.
- Further, I left the class wondering how I had found a solution better suited than the professor's.
- Also the professor told me he would give me more than 100% on that question.
I'm with this. He also left out a lot of detail in the problem and haphazardly threw around some complicated math jargon that most people wouldn't question, but I'm not most people. More detail on the problem would be nice, and it sounds like you wrote it down, so lets see it!
Okay, here's some more detail. I wrote it on the chalkboard, so I don't have the numbers.....
Basically, the question stemmed from the fact that it was an optimization problem of purchasing bonds of varying lengths of time which cost the same (where the interest rates of the bonds and the length of time to maturity would be inversely proportional). There was a Minimum Accepted Rate of Return (MARR) required per year. You had money to spend, but there was an opportunity cost lost the longer it took to mature. Basically, it came down to there being a certain ideal length of time to have the bonds, which had to have a certain interest rate.
The equation was basically like this:
Gain/year = (total money at X period of time - initial money at X period of time)/number of years.
Total money was the uninvested money at the MARR - loss due to opportunity cost + the money of the bought bonds
The equations had a lot of "1/(x)(1+y)^2" style derivatives to them, which led to 0 being an impossible answer. Also, any negative time, interest value, etc..... were inadmissible. As time approached infinity, the values led to 0 as well, which led to there having to be a local maximum somewhere on the domain of 0<x<=infinity.
I solved for critical points, once I simplified it to 2 equations (x and y, giving me a z value). I could have done it without the simplifications, but solving a Hessian of order 3 or higher is a pain in the ass.....
Found that both acceptable critical points were both local maximums. Looked at the value at both (money gained). One was something like 120 000 000, the other was about 60 higher. I figure it's just a rounding error..... Also, since the number of years for the bond to mature has to be an integer (or half an integer, since it was semi-annually compounded), both answers were rounded to the nearest 1/2 year.....
EDIT - all numbers were done in present value.....
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On January 13 2010 06:21 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
this blog could have been made into a movie in the early 90's and it woulda kicked ass.
It would have been a crappy movie.....
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Yeah it lacks a ben affleck character but I think it still has a chance.
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On January 13 2010 06:36 t_co wrote:
u kno wats really fockin sad right? these financial whizzes will be the ones buying your, company, downsizing your company (which means firing your bosses or telling your bosses to fire you), and/or being your boss in a few years.
and to think that you're smarter than them... lol
go into banking you earn more and there are hotter girls there anyhow
That's just it. I dunno if I could do something like fire someone, or tell someone to fire someone else. I'm definitely no good for management. Or finances. Plus, that was the first day. If it builds from that, it's probably going to be a pretty difficult course..... I was straining at some parts of that answer.
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On January 13 2010 08:12 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Yeah it lacks a ben affleck character but I think it still has a chance.
If I was in finances, I would not suggest backing that movie. Ben Affleck may be an awesome actor, but I don't think even he could pull this one to success.....
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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On January 13 2010 08:22 starfries wrote:
Do you like apples?
It's not your fault.
It's not your fault.
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On January 13 2010 08:22 starfries wrote:
Do you like apples?
Does it come with vodka?
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And you can solve most any finance problems if you just know how to take derivatives... I think any math major could walk into a engineering/economics/finance/physics class on the first day and have a good stab at the question (not that I'm a math major)
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Baa?21243 Posts
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call bullshit on this story, but it was pretty cool nonetheless.
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On January 13 2010 08:24 Lemonwalrus wrote:It's not your fault. It's not your fault.
Sorry, I have to go see about a girl.
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On January 13 2010 08:26 starfries wrote:
And you can solve most any finance problems if you just know how to take derivatives... I think any math major could walk into a engineering/economics/finance/physics class on the first day and have a good stab at the question (not that I'm a math major)
Short of not knowing the correct terminology, and any shortcuts, a math major could probably walk into any other math major's class and at least be able to give it a shot.....
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On January 13 2010 08:39 lMPERVlOUS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 08:26 starfries wrote:
And you can solve most any finance problems if you just know how to take derivatives... I think any math major could walk into a engineering/economics/finance/physics class on the first day and have a good stab at the question (not that I'm a math major) Short of not knowing the correct terminology, and any shortcuts, a math major could probably walk into any other math major's class and at least be able to give it a shot.....
On the first day at least, and it sounds like that's what you did... you did the math the long way and got the right answer, while the prof had magic finance formulas. In the fourth year econ and physics courses I've taken a lot of it is learning shortcuts. If you can set up the right equations for the problem you've basically done most of the hard work...
btw you should definitely stick with engineering, even if you are thinking of doing finance. Half of the recruiters at engineering career are from finance companies looking for smart math kids.
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On January 13 2010 09:16 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 08:39 lMPERVlOUS wrote:On January 13 2010 08:26 starfries wrote:
And you can solve most any finance problems if you just know how to take derivatives... I think any math major could walk into a engineering/economics/finance/physics class on the first day and have a good stab at the question (not that I'm a math major) Short of not knowing the correct terminology, and any shortcuts, a math major could probably walk into any other math major's class and at least be able to give it a shot..... On the first day at least, and it sounds like that's what you did... you did the math the long way and got the right answer, while the prof had magic finance formulas. In the fourth year econ and physics courses I've taken a lot of it is learning shortcuts. If you can set up the right equations for the problem you've basically done most of the hard work... btw you should definitely stick with engineering, even if you are thinking of doing finance. Half of the recruiters at engineering career are from finance companies looking for smart math kids.
Actually, I'm not that brilliant in math..... It just happened that I understand optimization techniques really well. I still failed Cal III after all..... And, having thought of it, I think I figured out how I made a mistake.....
I assumed that the years were a continuous variable (even though they weren't)..... I should have assumed it was a step function, which would have made the question unsolvable (at least, I don't have a clue how to solve that)..... If the prof's formulas were to take that into account (not that I see how that would be accomplished, but I dunno), his answer may have been higher than mine would have been.....
Fuck.....
EDIT - Actually, now I'm not sure how I got the same answer as the prof? Maybe I was close enough to an integer?
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Wow, nice job shitting on the entire class. Impressive, Im sure they're jealous.
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My Calc 3 teacher has been telling my class for years we would be able to do this. I never believed him... until now.
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;\
im a senior in ME.
It sucked hard until now. Im finally in senior classes where you start to learn things that are actually practical! Give me short cuts so I can do a real job!
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On January 13 2010 10:42 Disregard wrote:
Wow, nice job shitting on the entire class. Impressive, Im sure they're jealous.
Jealous? They're learning ways to do that same thing with less than 5% of the work I did. Plus, they're almost done getting their degree - I have a long way to go.....
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On January 13 2010 09:16 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 08:39 lMPERVlOUS wrote:On January 13 2010 08:26 starfries wrote:
And you can solve most any finance problems if you just know how to take derivatives... I think any math major could walk into a engineering/economics/finance/physics class on the first day and have a good stab at the question (not that I'm a math major) Short of not knowing the correct terminology, and any shortcuts, a math major could probably walk into any other math major's class and at least be able to give it a shot..... On the first day at least, and it sounds like that's what you did... you did the math the long way and got the right answer, while the prof had magic finance formulas. In the fourth year econ and physics courses I've taken a lot of it is learning shortcuts. If you can set up the right equations for the problem you've basically done most of the hard work... btw you should definitely stick with engineering, even if you are thinking of doing finance. Half of the recruiters at engineering career are from finance companies looking for smart math kids.
it's only that much more enlightening (read: excruciating) for you if your physics professors make you do the math the long way first before you learn the shortcuts. ah, ladder operators, what would we do without you?
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On January 13 2010 11:38 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 09:16 starfries wrote:On January 13 2010 08:39 lMPERVlOUS wrote:On January 13 2010 08:26 starfries wrote:
And you can solve most any finance problems if you just know how to take derivatives... I think any math major could walk into a engineering/economics/finance/physics class on the first day and have a good stab at the question (not that I'm a math major) Short of not knowing the correct terminology, and any shortcuts, a math major could probably walk into any other math major's class and at least be able to give it a shot..... On the first day at least, and it sounds like that's what you did... you did the math the long way and got the right answer, while the prof had magic finance formulas. In the fourth year econ and physics courses I've taken a lot of it is learning shortcuts. If you can set up the right equations for the problem you've basically done most of the hard work... btw you should definitely stick with engineering, even if you are thinking of doing finance. Half of the recruiters at engineering career are from finance companies looking for smart math kids. it's only that much more enlightening (read: excruciating) for you if your physics professors make you do the math the long way first before you learn the shortcuts. ah, ladder operators, what would we do without you?
amen! sadly I don't even remember the ladder operators anymore, I just know the energy levels and where to look up the wave functions.
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On January 13 2010 11:25 lMPERVlOUS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 10:42 Disregard wrote:
Wow, nice job shitting on the entire class. Impressive, Im sure they're jealous. Jealous? They're learning ways to do that same thing with less than 5% of the work I did. Plus, they're almost done getting their degree - I have a long way to go.....
I meant at your level, you would probably be way more efficient by the time you reach their course.
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On January 13 2010 09:16 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 08:39 lMPERVlOUS wrote:On January 13 2010 08:26 starfries wrote:
And you can solve most any finance problems if you just know how to take derivatives... I think any math major could walk into a engineering/economics/finance/physics class on the first day and have a good stab at the question (not that I'm a math major) Short of not knowing the correct terminology, and any shortcuts, a math major could probably walk into any other math major's class and at least be able to give it a shot..... On the first day at least, and it sounds like that's what you did... you did the math the long way and got the right answer, while the prof had magic finance formulas. In the fourth year econ and physics courses I've taken a lot of it is learning shortcuts. If you can set up the right equations for the problem you've basically done most of the hard work... btw you should definitely stick with engineering, even if you are thinking of doing finance. Half of the recruiters at engineering career are from finance companies looking for smart math kids.
You could have still solved it the same way given a step function and just ignore any negative results, and if it wasn't continuous, then you didn't even have to do calculus, so it sucks that you wasted all the brain power lolollol
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What school?
I'm in 4th year Engineering, I've been through so much pain, and I feel I can literally take any non-Engineering courses with relative ease.
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Canada9720 Posts
like a 4th year english course on american imagist poets?
i did engineering as well, and man the attitude of most engineering students is annoying
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On January 13 2010 13:32 CTStalker wrote:
like a 4th year english course on american imagist poets?
i did engineering as well, and man the attitude of most engineering students is annoying
Yes, I'd much rather take that than say advanced fluid mechanics/thermodynamics (I am not in mechanical engineering). I would have a much higher chance of passing.
edit:
Also, I go to UW, which is known for its Engineering and Math departments, which naturally extends to a much more demanding and selective curriculum. I have taken classes from a wide variety of faculties, and nothing is as hard as some of the engineering courses I had to take, both conceptually and in terms of work load. In 2005, my class began with 93 students with an enrolment average of 87%, now only around 30 of those people are still in my class. Some level of pride is expected.
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Belgium6771 Posts
How about 3d year graphic design
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On January 13 2010 13:44 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 13:32 CTStalker wrote:
like a 4th year english course on american imagist poets?
i did engineering as well, and man the attitude of most engineering students is annoying Yes, I'd much rather take that than say advanced fluid mechanics/thermodynamics (I am not in mechanical engineering). I would have a much higher chance of passing. edit: Also, I go to UW, which is known for its Engineering and Math departments, which naturally extends to a much more demanding and selective curriculum. I have taken classes from a wide variety of faculties, and nothing is as hard as some of the engineering courses I had to take, both conceptually and in terms of work load. In 2005, my class began with 93 students with an enrolment average of 87%, now only around 30 of those people are still in my class. Some level of pride is expected.
A Waterloo engineering degree... yeah that's pretty much cream of the crop 
What are you studying currently?
I lurk here quite a bit and, not to be a creeper, but I know that you went to Japan or something for coop? I'm currently enrolled in the co-op program at my school, and I've seen quite a few opportunities to go to Japan. How did it go for you/would you recommend it?
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Calgary25981 Posts
I'm an engineer and the attitude of engineering students is annoying. It's really not that hard get over yourselves.
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Doesn't matter if it isn't hard, the rest of the stuff is easier.
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On January 13 2010 14:10 Chill wrote:
I'm an engineer and the attitude of engineering students is annoying. It's really not that hard get over yourselves.
Can't help it, Engineering Science @ UT - it's more hell than one can imagine, and honestly, the people who survive and endure through this ridiculous program deserve to be considered superior human beings to others, lol. I'm not joking. The pace, depth, and the sheer amount of courses are just plain ridiculous.
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On January 13 2010 11:02 Faronel wrote:
My Calc 3 teacher has been telling my class for years we would be able to do this. I never believed him... until now.
I always counted on Calc 3 being the easiest. This semester should be cake right? calc 3, 2 electives and statics. Go engineers
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On January 13 2010 13:07 TheNearl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 09:16 starfries wrote:On January 13 2010 08:39 lMPERVlOUS wrote:On January 13 2010 08:26 starfries wrote:
And you can solve most any finance problems if you just know how to take derivatives... I think any math major could walk into a engineering/economics/finance/physics class on the first day and have a good stab at the question (not that I'm a math major) Short of not knowing the correct terminology, and any shortcuts, a math major could probably walk into any other math major's class and at least be able to give it a shot..... On the first day at least, and it sounds like that's what you did... you did the math the long way and got the right answer, while the prof had magic finance formulas. In the fourth year econ and physics courses I've taken a lot of it is learning shortcuts. If you can set up the right equations for the problem you've basically done most of the hard work... btw you should definitely stick with engineering, even if you are thinking of doing finance. Half of the recruiters at engineering career are from finance companies looking for smart math kids. You could have still solved it the same way given a step function and just ignore any negative results, and if it wasn't continuous, then you didn't even have to do calculus, so it sucks that you wasted all the brain power lolollol
What? The values are optimized assuming a continuous function. It wasn't. Meaning Calculus was pretty useless at determining the precise answer (at least from my understanding of it.....).
Explain plz.
On January 13 2010 15:04 Hypnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 11:02 Faronel wrote:
My Calc 3 teacher has been telling my class for years we would be able to do this. I never believed him... until now. I always counted on Calc 3 being the easiest. This semester should be cake right? calc 3, 2 electives and statics. Go engineers
I wish..... I honestly thought I had a good understanding on how to do everything in the class (at least enough to pass), and then the exam came..... Obviously I didn't do well enough on the exam to pass the course.....
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On January 13 2010 14:57 OpticalShot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 14:10 Chill wrote:
I'm an engineer and the attitude of engineering students is annoying. It's really not that hard get over yourselves. Can't help it, Engineering Science @ UT - it's more hell than one can imagine, and honestly, the people who survive and endure through this ridiculous program deserve to be considered superior human beings to others, lol. I'm not joking. The pace, depth, and the sheer amount of courses are just plain ridiculous.
My engineer friend goes through phases where he kinda thinks like this, but its part of his overall misanthrope thing he does sometimes. Anyway you can't really say that people who go something grueling are superior to others who didn't do the same thing, you can just say they were superior to those who tried and failed ;p Kinda reminds me of my undergrad school where packaging majors were often looked down upon by engineers because a lot of engineering drop outs went into packaging.
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On January 13 2010 14:57 OpticalShot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 14:10 Chill wrote:
I'm an engineer and the attitude of engineering students is annoying. It's really not that hard get over yourselves. Can't help it, Engineering Science @ UT - it's more hell than one can imagine, and honestly, the people who survive and endure through this ridiculous program deserve to be considered superior human beings to others, lol. I'm not joking. The pace, depth, and the sheer amount of courses are just plain ridiculous.
What the hell man!? We just spent an entire thread explaining why this attitude is ridiculous.
Also, I had a huge LOL at "it's not your fault it's not your fault"
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Ella - give him a break. It's all in his head.
An excellent definition of an Engineer
An Engineer is one who passes as an exacting expert on the strength of being able to turn out, with prolific fortitude, strings of incomprehensible formulae calculated with micrometric precision from extremely vague assumptions which are based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy, by persons of doubtful reliable and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside their own faculty.
Without that kind of attitude, you cannot be an engineer 
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On January 13 2010 15:53 lMPERVlOUS wrote:Ella - give him a break. It's all in his head. An excellent definition of an Engineer Show nested quote +An Engineer is one who passes as an exacting expert on the strength of being able to turn out, with prolific fortitude, strings of incomprehensible formulae calculated with micrometric precision from extremely vague assumptions which are based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy, by persons of doubtful reliable and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside their own faculty. Without that kind of attitude, you cannot be an engineer
Amen to that.
If I didn't think anything else than engineering science was far inferior as an undergraduate program, I would have dropped out of engsci already and went into some other major.
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fuck y'all engineering kids, im double math/physics with a minor in japaneeeeeeeese
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engineering is awesome we destroy stuff
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I used to hate engineering students because they always act like they're smarter and better than me. Then I realized that they are and I stopped caring. I go to community college, I major in German (both of my parents are German, my sister and I were raised in Suriname and grew up speaking German, so I thought it would be easy), and I quit the only job I ever held which was stacking jeans at Old Navy.
So, if you're in any type of engineering program, congratulations: You are better than pubbanana. 
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On January 13 2010 18:23 pubbanana wrote:I used to hate engineering students because they always act like they're smarter and better than me. Then I realized that they are and I stopped caring. I go to community college, I major in German (both of my parents are German, my sister and I were raised in Suriname and grew up speaking German, so I thought it would be easy), and I quit the only job I ever held which was stacking jeans at Old Navy. So, if you're in any type of engineering program, congratulations: You are better than pubbanana.
Dude, that's a piss poor view on it.....
And, at one point, I had dropped out of high school, with no intentions on going back. Don't give up, man. If you want it, it's yours for the taking.
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Engineering is easy if you are smart. Most aren't smart and therefore think that it is hard. The smarter you are the easier the courses gets relative the soft sciences, it is even easier than those if you are high enough. Like, it is easier to double major in physics/maths than taking a lot of social science in between and just take one of those.
I think the main problem with engineering degrees is that a lot of non mathematical persons enter those degrees since they adore the work engineers do instead of entering because they have particular talent in with the mediums engineers work in. Maths and physics degrees do not have the same kind of drop-out problem.
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Canada9720 Posts
On January 13 2010 15:53 lMPERVlOUS wrote:Ella - give him a break. It's all in his head. An excellent definition of an Engineer Show nested quote +An Engineer is one who passes as an exacting expert on the strength of being able to turn out, with prolific fortitude, strings of incomprehensible formulae calculated with micrometric precision from extremely vague assumptions which are based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy, by persons of doubtful reliable and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside their own faculty. Without that kind of attitude, you cannot be an engineer
nah, but with that attitude, you can be a huge dink. you'll find in the real world, people have short tolerances for fresh grads who think they're big shit because they have a engineering degree (wow!!!!).
everyone you work with will have an eng degree too. and most of them won't be douches, because they grew up
and cambium what you wrote is typical bs
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Do you go to Waterloo? If so, Mandatory MSCI261 or equiv. + Calc could work (of course I'm sure other schools do the whole ECON deal). IMO, wait until Calc IV =(.
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On January 13 2010 23:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Engineering is easy if you are smart. Most aren't smart and therefore think that it is hard. The smarter you are the easier the courses gets relative the soft sciences, it is even easier than those if you are high enough. Like, it is easier to double major in physics/maths than taking a lot of social science in between and just take one of those.
I think the main problem with engineering degrees is that a lot of non mathematical persons enter those degrees since they adore the work engineers do instead of entering because they have particular talent in with the mediums engineers work in. Maths and physics degrees do not have the same kind of drop-out problem.
Disagree on the whole being physically smart enough.
Engineering is easy if you are a patient listener with an open mind to question what you are hearing and receive criticism yourself (and if you have good work ethic, although I think that that's just a plus). A lot of people would do well in engineering if they just open their ears and minds to the material a bit.
Also, a very realistic reason why you are in engineering is because it's easier to find engineering jobs and because your median starting B.S. degree salary is like at least 10k higher than other majors.
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On January 13 2010 23:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Engineering is easy if you are smart. Most aren't smart and therefore think that it is hard. The smarter you are the easier the courses gets relative the soft sciences, it is even easier than those if you are high enough. Like, it is easier to double major in physics/maths than taking a lot of social science in between and just take one of those.
I think the main problem with engineering degrees is that a lot of non mathematical persons enter those degrees since they adore the work engineers do instead of entering because they have particular talent in with the mediums engineers work in. Maths and physics degrees do not have the same kind of drop-out problem.
What?
One of my good friends here is in pre-med. He's admitted that he couldn't do the classes I have. I can't do the biology courses that he takes.
He is far smarter than I am..... He's got a very good chance of passing the MCAT. Heck, he's got a very good chance at doing very well on it. I would be surprised if he got turned down for med school.
People are wired differently. That's what it comes down to. It's not about being "smarter".....
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in my experience philosophy/history majors scoff at everything else T_T
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On January 13 2010 15:35 ella_guru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 14:57 OpticalShot wrote:On January 13 2010 14:10 Chill wrote:
I'm an engineer and the attitude of engineering students is annoying. It's really not that hard get over yourselves. Can't help it, Engineering Science @ UT - it's more hell than one can imagine, and honestly, the people who survive and endure through this ridiculous program deserve to be considered superior human beings to others, lol. I'm not joking. The pace, depth, and the sheer amount of courses are just plain ridiculous. What the hell man!? We just spent an entire thread explaining why this attitude is ridiculous. Also, I had a huge LOL at "it's not your fault it's not your fault"
Hahaha. The problem is people in soft degrees are very modest and will always say 'oh your degree is so much harder than mine.' It's devaluing to what we really gain in each of our specific paths which are leading to exactly where we personally want to go. "Hard" degrees are a lot of grinding, and a lot of studying, but I don't think they're literally difficult to obtain if you really devote yourself to them. The people who fail those degrees fail for the same reasons some people fail 'soft' degrees. They party and drink when they should be studying. The only difference is sometimes you can get a crappy but passing mark in a soft degree when you party and drink a lot. But then those are the people who have a hard time finding a job when they graduate anyway. If I spent 8 hours a day studying math instead of doing my readings, I'd probably be pretty good at math The thing that makes English 'easy' is that I could also just look at class notes and summaries and still get a C if I were satisfied with that.
It's where you wanna go in life, and what you're willing to do to get there. Then luck. It gets annoying when someone brags about that, since basically anyone successful does it.
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Calgary25981 Posts
On January 13 2010 14:57 OpticalShot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 14:10 Chill wrote:
I'm an engineer and the attitude of engineering students is annoying. It's really not that hard get over yourselves. Can't help it, Engineering Science @ UT - it's more hell than one can imagine, and honestly, the people who survive and endure through this ridiculous program deserve to be considered superior human beings to others, lol. I'm not joking. The pace, depth, and the sheer amount of courses are just plain ridiculous.
Well I went to Queens and it was fine. I can't speak about UofT but unless there's a huge disparity in the courses and difficulty between the two programs I think a lot of engineers are huge babies just looking for acknowledgement.
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Calgary25981 Posts
On January 13 2010 15:53 lMPERVlOUS wrote:Ella - give him a break. It's all in his head. An excellent definition of an Engineer Show nested quote +An Engineer is one who passes as an exacting expert on the strength of being able to turn out, with prolific fortitude, strings of incomprehensible formulae calculated with micrometric precision from extremely vague assumptions which are based on debatable figures acquired from inconclusive tests and incomplete experiments, carried out with instruments of problematic accuracy, by persons of doubtful reliable and rather dubious mentality with the particular anticipation of disconcerting and annoying everyone outside their own faculty. Without that kind of attitude, you cannot be an engineer
Sure you can because that statement is exaggerrated to the point of comedy. It's also great that you're telling people who are something what they should be when you aren't that yet.
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Calgary25981 Posts
For future reference
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I do remember seeing that before. Not with the
"BOOOOOOOM STFU"
on it though.
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Calgary25981 Posts
yea i added that for your reference
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On January 14 2010 04:21 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 14:57 OpticalShot wrote:On January 13 2010 14:10 Chill wrote:
I'm an engineer and the attitude of engineering students is annoying. It's really not that hard get over yourselves. Can't help it, Engineering Science @ UT - it's more hell than one can imagine, and honestly, the people who survive and endure through this ridiculous program deserve to be considered superior human beings to others, lol. I'm not joking. The pace, depth, and the sheer amount of courses are just plain ridiculous. Well I went to Queens and it was fine. I can't speak about UofT but unless there's a huge disparity in the courses and difficulty between the two programs I think a lot of engineers are huge babies just looking for acknowledgement.
Dunno, it seems that people in science and engineering have a much harder time keeping a good grade average than everyone else. In my school, not sure about others, the curve for introductory science courses sucks since they're trying to weed out the people who won't be able to handle medical school.
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Just found out today my finalized grades for year 3 semester 1 are below class average for 4/5 of the courses, FML.
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On January 14 2010 04:10 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 15:35 ella_guru wrote:On January 13 2010 14:57 OpticalShot wrote:On January 13 2010 14:10 Chill wrote:
I'm an engineer and the attitude of engineering students is annoying. It's really not that hard get over yourselves. Can't help it, Engineering Science @ UT - it's more hell than one can imagine, and honestly, the people who survive and endure through this ridiculous program deserve to be considered superior human beings to others, lol. I'm not joking. The pace, depth, and the sheer amount of courses are just plain ridiculous. What the hell man!? We just spent an entire thread explaining why this attitude is ridiculous. Also, I had a huge LOL at "it's not your fault it's not your fault" Hahaha. The problem is people in soft degrees are very modest and will always say 'oh your degree is so much harder than mine.' It's devaluing to what we really gain in each of our specific paths which are leading to exactly where we personally want to go. "Hard" degrees are a lot of grinding, and a lot of studying, but I don't think they're literally difficult to obtain if you really devote yourself to them. The people who fail those degrees fail for the same reasons some people fail 'soft' degrees. They party and drink when they should be studying. The only difference is sometimes you can get a crappy but passing mark in a soft degree when you party and drink a lot. But then those are the people who have a hard time finding a job when they graduate anyway. If I spent 8 hours a day studying math instead of doing my readings, I'd probably be pretty good at math The thing that makes English 'easy' is that I could also just look at class notes and summaries and still get a C if I were satisfied with that. It's where you wanna go in life, and what you're willing to do to get there. Then luck. It gets annoying when someone brags about that, since basically anyone successful does it.
I mostly agree with what you have to say. Except for the study + grind = good grade part. It takes a great amount of discipline, both physical and mental, to do well in engineering (other majors as well, of course), but especially in engineering. One slip up on one final exam worth 60% of your grade and you can say goodbye to your pretty GPA.
I guess in a way this reflects reality, since engineering is applied science. Once you get out of school you're in the real world applying what you've learned, and one little slip up could not only cost your career but other peoples' lives also.
In an ideal world, study + diligence would produce a good grade but in engineering it simply depends on the depth of your understanding. Some people can understand the material in an hour or two while others spend a week grinding through the material without really knowing what they are doing. It's impossible to bullshit your way through courses -in the end, the people who claim they know what they are doing but really don't just expose themselves, usually by failing.
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On January 13 2010 15:21 lMPERVlOUS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 13:07 TheNearl wrote:On January 13 2010 09:16 starfries wrote:On January 13 2010 08:39 lMPERVlOUS wrote:On January 13 2010 08:26 starfries wrote:
And you can solve most any finance problems if you just know how to take derivatives... I think any math major could walk into a engineering/economics/finance/physics class on the first day and have a good stab at the question (not that I'm a math major) Short of not knowing the correct terminology, and any shortcuts, a math major could probably walk into any other math major's class and at least be able to give it a shot..... On the first day at least, and it sounds like that's what you did... you did the math the long way and got the right answer, while the prof had magic finance formulas. In the fourth year econ and physics courses I've taken a lot of it is learning shortcuts. If you can set up the right equations for the problem you've basically done most of the hard work... btw you should definitely stick with engineering, even if you are thinking of doing finance. Half of the recruiters at engineering career are from finance companies looking for smart math kids. You could have still solved it the same way given a step function and just ignore any negative results, and if it wasn't continuous, then you didn't even have to do calculus, so it sucks that you wasted all the brain power lolollol What? The values are optimized assuming a continuous function. It wasn't. Meaning Calculus was pretty useless at determining the precise answer (at least from my understanding of it.....).Explain plz. Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 15:04 Hypnosis wrote:On January 13 2010 11:02 Faronel wrote:
My Calc 3 teacher has been telling my class for years we would be able to do this. I never believed him... until now. I always counted on Calc 3 being the easiest. This semester should be cake right? calc 3, 2 electives and statics. Go engineers I wish..... I honestly thought I had a good understanding on how to do everything in the class (at least enough to pass), and then the exam came..... Obviously I didn't do well enough on the exam to pass the course.....
When you said step function, I thought you meant the unit step haha
But yeah, no calc for sure, If it were discrete then you would just solve it in a discrete way...one step at a time(its long and not fun). Assuming continuous, if you did it right, would give you an answer thats close though.
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See, that's just it - the number of years goes to infinity..... It would be impossible to model it without a computer. However, I could put some arbitrary limit on the maximum time it takes for the bonds to mature (say 30 years.....), and then solve using each and every one of those steps (30 year limit would be 60X the work, roughly).....
Fuck no. Now I'm staying away from finance.....
EDIT - I do know how to use the unit step function though. It's not quite the same here.....
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On January 14 2010 01:40 phase wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 23:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Engineering is easy if you are smart. Most aren't smart and therefore think that it is hard. The smarter you are the easier the courses gets relative the soft sciences, it is even easier than those if you are high enough. Like, it is easier to double major in physics/maths than taking a lot of social science in between and just take one of those.
I think the main problem with engineering degrees is that a lot of non mathematical persons enter those degrees since they adore the work engineers do instead of entering because they have particular talent in with the mediums engineers work in. Maths and physics degrees do not have the same kind of drop-out problem. Disagree on the whole being physically smart enough. Engineering is easy if you are a patient listener with an open mind to question what you are hearing and receive criticism yourself (and if you have good work ethic, although I think that that's just a plus). A lot of people would do well in engineering if they just open their ears and minds to the material a bit. Also, a very realistic reason why you are in engineering is because it's easier to find engineering jobs and because your median starting B.S. degree salary is like at least 10k higher than other majors.
Never say anything is "easy" until you pass with zero effort, I read that and don;t listen to a word you say man. I know you have valid points though just don;t say such blatantly ignorant shit like "this major is easy".
No major is easy ok?
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On January 14 2010 12:13 lMPERVlOUS wrote:
See, that's just it - the number of years goes to infinity..... It would be impossible to model it without a computer. However, I could put some arbitrary limit on the maximum time it takes for the bonds to mature (say 30 years.....), and then solve using each and every one of those steps (30 year limit would be 60X the work, roughly).....
Fuck no. Now I'm staying away from finance.....
EDIT - I do know how to use the unit step function though. It's not quite the same here.....
Well, technically the unit step sort of applies here, since we have to assume that we start at t=0 lololol
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On January 14 2010 12:39 Hypnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 01:40 phase wrote:On January 13 2010 23:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Engineering is easy if you are smart. Most aren't smart and therefore think that it is hard. The smarter you are the easier the courses gets relative the soft sciences, it is even easier than those if you are high enough. Like, it is easier to double major in physics/maths than taking a lot of social science in between and just take one of those.
I think the main problem with engineering degrees is that a lot of non mathematical persons enter those degrees since they adore the work engineers do instead of entering because they have particular talent in with the mediums engineers work in. Maths and physics degrees do not have the same kind of drop-out problem. Disagree on the whole being physically smart enough. Engineering is easy if you are a patient listener with an open mind to question what you are hearing and receive criticism yourself (and if you have good work ethic, although I think that that's just a plus). A lot of people would do well in engineering if they just open their ears and minds to the material a bit. Also, a very realistic reason why you are in engineering is because it's easier to find engineering jobs and because your median starting B.S. degree salary is like at least 10k higher than other majors. Never say anything is "easy" until you pass with zero effort, I read that and don;t listen to a word you say man. I know you have valid points though just don;t say such blatantly ignorant shit like "this major is easy". No major is easy ok?
Easy is a very relative term. No point in getting offended about it. He probably just means easy as in the average human being could do it. Lots of people only think of something as hard when they have doubt in their success (I'm one of those people). Whether or not it takes a lot of time doesn't factor into their interpretation of difficulty, unless it takes so much time that they don't think they'll have enough. I consider my major easy because I have zero doubt that if I show up to class and do my work I'll do okay.
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On January 14 2010 12:39 Hypnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 01:40 phase wrote:On January 13 2010 23:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Engineering is easy if you are smart. Most aren't smart and therefore think that it is hard. The smarter you are the easier the courses gets relative the soft sciences, it is even easier than those if you are high enough. Like, it is easier to double major in physics/maths than taking a lot of social science in between and just take one of those.
I think the main problem with engineering degrees is that a lot of non mathematical persons enter those degrees since they adore the work engineers do instead of entering because they have particular talent in with the mediums engineers work in. Maths and physics degrees do not have the same kind of drop-out problem. Disagree on the whole being physically smart enough. Engineering is easy if you are a patient listener with an open mind to question what you are hearing and receive criticism yourself (and if you have good work ethic, although I think that that's just a plus). A lot of people would do well in engineering if they just open their ears and minds to the material a bit. Also, a very realistic reason why you are in engineering is because it's easier to find engineering jobs and because your median starting B.S. degree salary is like at least 10k higher than other majors. Never say anything is "easy" until you pass with zero effort, I read that and don;t listen to a word you say man. I know you have valid points though just don;t say such blatantly ignorant shit like "this major is easy". No major is easy ok?
I was just saying that it was easy to put myself in context to what I was responding to (check nested quotes). Normally, I wouldn't say anything is easy (except protoss, *grrrrrrrr, nerdrage*), I'd say something like, not as hard as people make it out to be. And I also didn't make any statements saying that some major was easier than another major. :o
Anyways, I wrote my previous segment because I feel that I have an easier time in engineering (4th year EECS @ UC Berkeley) than some of my peers, and I was analyzing some of my study/learning habits and comparing it to some of my peers' study/learning habits. It's not like I'm some douchebag from another random major that randomly comes in saying Engineering is easy :O
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On January 13 2010 23:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Engineering is easy if you are smart. Most aren't smart and therefore think that it is hard. The smarter you are the easier the courses gets relative the soft sciences, it is even easier than those if you are high enough. Like, it is easier to double major in physics/maths than taking a lot of social science in between and just take one of those.
I think the main problem with engineering degrees is that a lot of non mathematical persons enter those degrees since they adore the work engineers do instead of entering because they have particular talent in with the mediums engineers work in. Maths and physics degrees do not have the same kind of drop-out problem.
I've noticed the opposite. I'm both EE and physics, and I've noticed that in EE there is a spectrum of students, ranging from very smart to kind of smart. In physics however, there are two types of students. Smart and dumb. The dumb ones couldn't get accepted into engineering (which is competitive) so they went into physics (which isn't competitive). So a significant portion of physics students are engineering rejects.
What amazes me about them is that they pass their physics classes through what I see as sheer willpower.
As a side note, I found engineering to be harder than physics. Physics is actually kind of easy. Once you understand the tricks, you use them over and over again in every class. The classes are usually only 3 or 4 credits, no lab. The hw is just a couple problems.
Engineering on the other hand is a nightmare sometimes. I mean damn. Every class is 5 credits and they all have labs, where you have to build/simulate things and turn in a report. There are like 20 problems every week, each of which might be more than a page long. There are no little mathematical tricks that will make your problem easy. You have to write a matlab program to solve your problem and/or do painful analysis of a large problem. Don't even get me started on verilog, cadence, FEA, HFSS and all the other things you have to learn during "lab". Or the digital design capstone....which has students in the lab 24 hours a day for the last 1/3 of the quarter.
CS students had it rough too. They were the only ones around in the labs while we were doing our EE projects all night, doing their operating systems class or whatever it was.
So yea, physics is easy if you are smart. Engineering is hard (painful) whether you're smart or not.
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The problem with Engineering I feel so far (I'm in my 2nd semester freshman year.) Is that it's hard but I don't feel like I'm learning anything too useful yet, though I guess that will come later hopefully. The work load was downright easy first semester. I expect to see a decent amount of my class drop after this one though.
Kinda wish I was doing premed. Chemistry/Biology is way more fun than physics which is a bit dry. But 8+ years of school sounds like ughhh.
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engineering is hella easy, and i'm in waterloo (graduating in 3 months)
i pretty much skip all my classes and pass with no effort except for a couple days of studying during exam period
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Honestly all the hard sciences have it rough. It does vary between programs and uni's though.
@ fight or flight...when you say sheer willpower, do you mean like they study hard and learn it well enough to pass any test, or do you mean they do bullshit assignments?
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On January 14 2010 16:22 psion0011 wrote:
engineering is hella easy, and i'm in waterloo (graduating in 3 months)
i pretty much skip all my classes and pass with no effort except for a couple days of studying during exam period
Sorry for the bump...
Is waterloo an easy school? What specific engineering major are you in? Can you give us an example of one of your easy exams?
And if you are real, how the f*** do you study for your exams (and don't tell me it's with a magic guitar).
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All engineering majors and school are hard. You first gotta realize that. There are no easy way into engineering. I failed to see that and look what I become, a big switch to broadcast journalism. So my simple advice is, get the hell out of there while you can because once you go in and realize engineering is too much, too hard, too boring, or too complicated for you, things will start to be chaotic...
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On March 14 2010 14:28 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 16:22 psion0011 wrote:
engineering is hella easy, and i'm in waterloo (graduating in 3 months)
i pretty much skip all my classes and pass with no effort except for a couple days of studying during exam period Sorry for the bump... Is waterloo an easy school? What specific engineering major are you in? Can you give us an example of one of your easy exams? And if you are real, how the f*** do you study for your exams (and don't tell me it's with a magic guitar).
lol... waterloo is the hardest engineering school in canada... and one of the hardest in north america i'd say. anyone who disagrees needs to come here for a few months
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On January 14 2010 16:22 psion0011 wrote:
engineering is hella easy, and i'm in waterloo (graduating in 3 months)
i pretty much skip all my classes and pass with no effort except for a couple days of studying during exam period
bullshit
if you don't do homework you aren't passing classes
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On January 14 2010 13:08 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 12:39 Hypnosis wrote:On January 14 2010 01:40 phase wrote:On January 13 2010 23:00 Klockan3 wrote:
Engineering is easy if you are smart. Most aren't smart and therefore think that it is hard. The smarter you are the easier the courses gets relative the soft sciences, it is even easier than those if you are high enough. Like, it is easier to double major in physics/maths than taking a lot of social science in between and just take one of those.
I think the main problem with engineering degrees is that a lot of non mathematical persons enter those degrees since they adore the work engineers do instead of entering because they have particular talent in with the mediums engineers work in. Maths and physics degrees do not have the same kind of drop-out problem. Disagree on the whole being physically smart enough. Engineering is easy if you are a patient listener with an open mind to question what you are hearing and receive criticism yourself (and if you have good work ethic, although I think that that's just a plus). A lot of people would do well in engineering if they just open their ears and minds to the material a bit. Also, a very realistic reason why you are in engineering is because it's easier to find engineering jobs and because your median starting B.S. degree salary is like at least 10k higher than other majors. Never say anything is "easy" until you pass with zero effort, I read that and don;t listen to a word you say man. I know you have valid points though just don;t say such blatantly ignorant shit like "this major is easy". No major is easy ok? Easy is a very relative term. No point in getting offended about it. He probably just means easy as in the average human being could do it. Lots of people only think of something as hard when they have doubt in their success (I'm one of those people). Whether or not it takes a lot of time doesn't factor into their interpretation of difficulty, unless it takes so much time that they don't think they'll have enough. I consider my major easy because I have zero doubt that if I show up to class and do my work I'll do okay.
Very eloquent Cheffy ^_^
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http://ca.hotjobs.yahoo.com/career-articles-tomorrow_s_new_hottest_jobs-1075
"Biomedical engineer
This field's expected growth through '18 -- a whopping 72 percent -- far outstrips any other occupation. As health-care technology becomes ever more complex, demand will explode for more engineers who can combine medical knowledge with engineering principles to develop needed new medical devices and equipment. The BLS reports most have a background in another engineering specialty and additional medical training."
biomed eng is probably the 2nd smallest group at my school next to engineering physics
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These past 3 days I've been sitting at the computer 12hours+ a day trying to finish up a software engineering project with my team members
engineering is hard man
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E-Peen contest going on around here! No no, my major is harder! Economics and Philosophy dual major! Beat that.
:p
I'd like to see you Engineering guys get through Human Action or Man, Economy, State, without gouging your eyes out at some points. That shit can be sooo dry at times lol.
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On March 14 2010 18:37 Rothbardian wrote:
E-Peen contest going on around here! No no, my major is harder! Economics and Philosophy dual major! Beat that.
:p
I'd like to see you Engineering guys get through Human Action or Man, Economy, State, without gouging your eyes out at some points. That shit can be sooo dry at times lol.
a single major in engineering (any type) loool
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On March 14 2010 18:37 Rothbardian wrote:
I'd like to see you Engineering guys get through Human Action or Man, Economy, State, without gouging your eyes out at some points. That shit can be sooo dry at times lol.
Us engineers/engineering students took the major so we could interact with physics, chemistry, and the forces of nature, not because we wanted to interact with people
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Never too late to go into Business/Finance ;-)
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Undergrad Engineering was TOO EASY.
Graduate Engineering is :'(. FML. OMG WTF.
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On March 14 2010 21:16 VorcePA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 18:37 Rothbardian wrote:
I'd like to see you Engineering guys get through Human Action or Man, Economy, State, without gouging your eyes out at some points. That shit can be sooo dry at times lol. Us engineers/engineering students took the major so we could interact with physics, chemistry, and the forces of nature, not because we wanted to interact with people
And that's why I rage-quit engineering, precisely for that reason you just said. Glad I'm a broadcast journalism now! Social over anti-social!
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Yeah, I kinda just wanted to learn better study habits. I guess the first thing would be to browse less >.<
I go to UofT and I'm guessing Waterloo's computer eng is just as hard as here. But I just wanted to call out the guy who said it was easy.
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On March 14 2010 16:40 CorsairHero wrote:http://ca.hotjobs.yahoo.com/career-articles-tomorrow_s_new_hottest_jobs-1075"Biomedical engineer This field's expected growth through '18 -- a whopping 72 percent -- far outstrips any other occupation. As health-care technology becomes ever more complex, demand will explode for more engineers who can combine medical knowledge with engineering principles to develop needed new medical devices and equipment. The BLS reports most have a background in another engineering specialty and additional medical training." biomed eng is probably the 2nd smallest group at my school next to engineering physics
I found out that in order to do that you just do a regular engineering degree then focus on biomedical with your electives, you dont have to be in a specific program unless there is one at your school.
I was worried I had to do pre-med + mechanical o0
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this story is a copy paste
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Copy paste of what?
Seriously, I thought this was dead quite a while ago.....
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On January 14 2010 16:10 Jonoman92 wrote:
The problem with Engineering I feel so far (I'm in my 2nd semester freshman year.) Is that it's hard but I don't feel like I'm learning anything too useful yet, though I guess that will come later hopefully. The work load was downright easy first semester. I expect to see a decent amount of my class drop after this one though.
Kinda wish I was doing premed. Chemistry/Biology is way more fun than physics which is a bit dry. But 8+ years of school sounds like ughhh.
I'm using stuff I learned in first and second year (material science, semiconductor physics, etc.) in my job (coop) right now! I was actually surprised at how useful it was in my field because while I was in school I thought I would never apply the information I learned. Although it's very basic knowledge, it's a very useful foundation for what you may encounter in later years.
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On March 15 2010 10:19 lMPERVlOUS wrote:
What electives :S
science electives (spend them on kin classes), technical electives (use them on biomedical instrumentation or something similar)
and spend your arts electives on w/e
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Wtf? I'm doing Software Engineering at the University of Victoria and it's not nearly as hard as it's described in this topic. Maybe Software Engineering is way way easier than the other kinds or maybe my university isn't as intense as Waterloo for example...
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On March 19 2010 14:37 Stripe wrote:
Wtf? I'm doing Software Engineering at the University of Victoria and it's not nearly as hard as it's described in this topic. Maybe Software Engineering is way way easier than the other kinds or maybe my university isn't as intense as Waterloo for example...
software engineering is considered to be a part of computer science, at least its like that at SFU
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Canada9720 Posts
it depends on the school, obviously. at many universities it's jointly offered between the faculty of engineering and computer science.
and of course, if you weren't eligible to to become a p. eng after graduating, they wouldn't be able to call it 'engineering'
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On March 19 2010 22:05 CTStalker wrote:
and of course, if you weren't eligible to to become a p. eng after graduating, they wouldn't be able to call it 'engineering'
Really? I guess you have the potential once you graduate, but in most provinces, you need 2 to 4 years of engineering experience under a licensed P.Eng, and you're most likely not going to get that during your undergraduate education. Correct my if I'm wrong.
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Calgary25981 Posts
On March 19 2010 22:29 Chromyne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 22:05 CTStalker wrote:
and of course, if you weren't eligible to to become a p. eng after graduating, they wouldn't be able to call it 'engineering' Really? I guess you have the potential once you graduate, but in most provinces, you need 2 to 4 years of engineering experience under a licensed P.Eng, and you're most likely not going to get that during your undergraduate education. Correct my if I'm wrong.
Yes, you need that, but you also need an engineering degree...
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On March 19 2010 22:45 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 22:29 Chromyne wrote:On March 19 2010 22:05 CTStalker wrote:
and of course, if you weren't eligible to to become a p. eng after graduating, they wouldn't be able to call it 'engineering' Really? I guess you have the potential once you graduate, but in most provinces, you need 2 to 4 years of engineering experience under a licensed P.Eng, and you're most likely not going to get that during your undergraduate education. Correct my if I'm wrong. Yes, you need that, but you also need an engineering degree...
The way he worded it, it sounded like he was saying that you could become a P.Eng upon graduating, which would be false unless you can get all your experience and take the exam. If he meant that you would be one step closer to getting a P.Eng, that would be true, but that would be true for a lot of cases.
Also, you don't need an engineering degree to get a P.Eng. One minimum requirement in Ontario is a three-year university science program in a relevant engineering field. Actually, IIRC, Alberta also allows for applicants without a professional degree.
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Canada9720 Posts
no, i didn't mean to imply you can get the designation without interning for 4 years -- just that you do (in my province, at least) need a nationally certified engineering degree (or the equivalent. a former prof of mine had a radiology degree from the ukraine, and he's a registered p.eng in new brunswick).
i'd be interested in seeing a source for being able to become a p. eng without that requirement in the provinces you mentioned. in NB, you can be a member of the same governing association, since it covers engineers and geologists and geo-scientists, or something. but those geo folks have a different stamp, not p. eng
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If you choose to register without an accredited engineering degree, most associations give alternative requirements (that are usually much more tedious and time consuming, though you could say the same thing about university engineering >_>).
All of my information has been taken from each association's respective website under their licensing and registration sections. Please tell me if I misunderstood anything. (Direct links are below.)
+ Show Spoiler +
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Calgary25981 Posts
On March 19 2010 22:57 Chromyne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 22:45 Chill wrote:On March 19 2010 22:29 Chromyne wrote:On March 19 2010 22:05 CTStalker wrote:
and of course, if you weren't eligible to to become a p. eng after graduating, they wouldn't be able to call it 'engineering' Really? I guess you have the potential once you graduate, but in most provinces, you need 2 to 4 years of engineering experience under a licensed P.Eng, and you're most likely not going to get that during your undergraduate education. Correct my if I'm wrong. Yes, you need that, but you also need an engineering degree... The way he worded it, it sounded like he was saying that you could become a P.Eng upon graduating, which would be false unless you can get all your experience and take the exam. If he meant that you would be one step closer to getting a P.Eng, that would be true, but that would be true for a lot of cases. Also, you don't need an engineering degree to get a P.Eng. One minimum requirement in Ontario is a three-year university science program in a relevant engineering field. Actually, IIRC, Alberta also allows for applicants without a professional degree.
http://www.apegga.org/applicants/Engineers/registration.html
What criteria do I have to meet?
Post-secondary education: An undergraduate degree from a recognized accredited engineering, geology or geophysics program or equivalent is required. You must have your institution provide APEGGA with a Certificate of Graduation and official transcripts.
Of course you need an engineering degree to be a P.Eng. You can become a geologist or geophysicist with the appropriate degrees and experience, which is maybe what you are thinking of, but you certainly can't become a P.Eng with having a degree in engineering!
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Calgary25981 Posts
On March 20 2010 00:05 Chromyne wrote:If you choose to register without an accredited engineering degree, most associations give alternative requirements (that are usually much more tedious and time consuming, though you could say the same thing about university engineering >_>). All of my information has been taken from each association's respective website under their licensing and registration sections. Please tell me if I misunderstood anything. (Direct links are below.) + Show Spoiler +
I'm not going to look through a 45 page document, but APEGGA covers all of engineers, geologists and geophysicists, so it's likely those are covered under a single document.
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On March 20 2010 00:28 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 00:05 Chromyne wrote:If you choose to register without an accredited engineering degree, most associations give alternative requirements (that are usually much more tedious and time consuming, though you could say the same thing about university engineering >_>). All of my information has been taken from each association's respective website under their licensing and registration sections. Please tell me if I misunderstood anything. (Direct links are below.) + Show Spoiler + I'm not going to look through a 45 page document, but APEGGA covers all of engineers, geologists and geophysicists, so it's likely those are covered under a single document.
Quantity of Experience (Without a Professional Degree)
"If you do not have a degree in engineering, geology or geophysics, the EGGP Act requires that you must have at least eight years of experience acceptable to the Board of Examiners, at least one year of which must be obtained after completion of the examinations assessed by the Board."
(p. 5 APEGGA Experience Requirements for Lincensure)
EDIT: Idiotic moment.
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Calgary25981 Posts
I think that's moreso a grandfather clause for people who were doing engineering all their life and are now trying to follow the code. I doubt it's some technician who does engineering for 8 years and then gets a stamp.
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That may be so, though that's not the point. I'm just saying that it's possible, permissible and does not necessitate an engineering degree.
Okay, I'm done.
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