• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:09
CEST 13:09
KST 20:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)10Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week1Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Rogue EWC 2025 Hype Video!
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 SOOP Starcraft Global #22 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 30476 users

Moon Glaive 2.1 [rant]

Blogs > FyRe_DragOn
Post a Reply
FyRe_DragOn
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada2056 Posts
December 18 2009 10:12 GMT
#1
I decided to play this map today for the first time, on the first day of the new season. Unfortunately, unlike its relatively fun and balanced partner in new proleague maps, fighting spirit, moon glaive is a piece of shit. I am now 7-11, having played all my games on that map. 9 of them were zvp, all of which i lost. Most of them i even gained an advantage in the early game due to ling run bys killing tons of probes. This is the worst start to an iccup season i can ever remember having -__- I dont think ill be playing it again unless forced to.

Disadvantages Zerg has against Protoss on Moon Glaive:

the 3rd and 4th expansions are really fucking close and easy for the protoss to take. They have minimal mineral patches, every one of them has gas - protoss units in pvz are very gas intensive, zerg units in zvp are alot more evenly matched in terms of resource needs.

Said expansions have tiny ass back pathways, and slightly larger choke points leading up to the center. Zerg also have no good focal points for massing up their units, because there is a goddam ramp going upwards into the middle of the map which the protoss will obviously hover around constantly, so if you rally units to above the ramp, you have to hold it with your life (and its a gigantic area to hold), if you rally to below the ramp, you get constantly stormed and harassed by dragoons, and your army is divided - he can attack any base he wants while controlling that high ground, and you cant do shit. If you hold back your units at your expansions, guess what - your pathways to reinforce from the other expansions are so small that a single storm covers the entire area - aka they are useless if the protoss has storm, and what protoss wont? Also if the protoss has his main beside your 4th base, its easy as fuck to storm/templar/dt drop from the safety of his main, you might even be forced to expand to 4th on the opposite side of the map as your 3rd.

Taking the far main is an option, but not a very good one. You have to turtle extremely hard, because the distance is so far between your bases, the protoss can harass + pressure the shit out of the naturals alternately. And, the natural only gives u 7 minerals The main has 9, so its decent, but still if you are turtling really hard for 2 bases, it would be nice if those 2 bases were giving you good returns. Did i mention the protoss can get just as many bases as you anyway? thats without expanding out of his area of protection. Usually when you play this style, you force the protoss to expand to far away places to keep even with you in macro, which you then abuse with crackling drops/attacking bases with swarm etc. In this case, this advantage is greatly reduced, the protoss 3rd and 4th expansions are tightly packed and can be easily walled off, and they are all close enough to the protoss main for him to safe himself from any danger.

The center of the map is huge and the only way to get onto it is by ramps leading from all your expansions, as mentioned before. Yay for protoss, all they have to do is hover around the center, covering the ramps and putting pressure on various bases till the zerg runs out of money or is weak enough to attack.

Every expansion of the zergs can be easily cannon rushed. There is a space behind the zerg natural that can be blocked off by a pylon, with space enough for 2 cannons behind the mineral line. Ofc this is out of the zergs vision while the hatchery is morphing. Another way to offensive cannon the zergs natural is to build cannons above the ridge in the corner over said natural - again, with the pathway that units take going down the ramp, this is completely out of vision until its too late. The 3rd and 4th bases of the zerg can be cannoned as well, but not in any largely imbalanced way. Taking the far natural increases the effectiveness of cannon rushes on it by a billion %, because its so goddam far, even if you do scout it you might still lose to it if they do that wallin behind the mineral line, all they need is the pylon to finish, and there will be no drones to jump over minerals in that case - just more stuff for the zerg to watch out for.


Advantages Zerg has against Protoss on Moon Glaive

the protoss has to watch out for ling runbys coming from 2 directions instead of 1, big deal this happened on heartbreak ridge as well and it shouldnt be a problem unless you are bad at scouting or walling in. The 2nd pathway is conveniently perfect blocked by a core or forge


So in conclusion, Moon Glaive is a terrible map for zvp and i will avoid it at all costs in the future unless some zerg thinks of an amazing strategy to use on it that counterbalances all the disadvantages i named above. Why the fuck do the korean mapmakers keep pumping out pieces of crap? I have yet to see one replay or vod in which a zerg wins over protoss on this. On youtube i found 1 proleague zvp on it - zerg got smashed into the ground. I watched a replay of white-ra vs a zerg pro. Guess who won? White-ra, with ease even. Fuck this map

*
aka DragOn[NaS]
Pioneer
Profile Joined December 2008
994 Posts
December 18 2009 10:34 GMT
#2
it's even better for terran.
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3016 Posts
December 18 2009 10:41 GMT
#3
So one of your reasons for Moon Glaive being good for P in PvZ is that each base has relatively few minerals and has gas?

And it's also good because of Cannon rushing which is completely preventable? Seriously?
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
December 18 2009 10:41 GMT
#4
Yah its pretty strong terran map because its really easy to defend a lot of expos
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
Camlito
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Australia4040 Posts
December 18 2009 10:52 GMT
#5
I had my first ZvP on here today, and i thought it was going nicely. There was so much gas and i thought i could eventually maximize it for hive tech, unfortunantly, i couldn't actually stop any expos, as he has his army popping back and forth between top on his side and main (never attacking) and took 2 gas expos so easy and 4 gas protoss is good no matter how far ahead zerg is (ask free)

I then thought "gee, he must be a damn good player to pull that off" and didn't think of any map problems, but, he was C, with stats last season of 88-127.

FML
sAviOr...
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
December 18 2009 11:11 GMT
#6
cannon rush is the new pvz
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
December 18 2009 11:15 GMT
#7
ure kidding arent u
hatred outlives the hateful
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-18 12:42:36
December 18 2009 12:42 GMT
#8
On December 18 2009 20:11 OneOther wrote:
cannon rush is the new pvz

worked for + Show Spoiler +
Pure
... oh wait.
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3500 Posts
December 18 2009 15:32 GMT
#9
Maybe zerg just isn't your race. Have you tried using protoss?
Moderator
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66155 Posts
December 18 2009 16:49 GMT
#10
then play Terran
POGGERS
Gangrel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States137 Posts
December 18 2009 16:54 GMT
#11
--- Nuked ---
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11390 Posts
December 18 2009 16:55 GMT
#12
On December 19 2009 00:32 Kau wrote:
Maybe zerg just isn't your race. Have you tried using protoss?

He plays PvZ, PvT, and ZvP.

This is also why Ret's rep pack needs to be out sooner. (or actual zvp vods in proleague would be nice on this map would nice)
Moderator。◕‿◕。
ZeeTemplar
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States557 Posts
December 18 2009 16:55 GMT
#13
harass? lurker contain? prevent toss from mass expanding? O_o
Jangbi storms!!!
Kau *
Profile Joined March 2007
Canada3500 Posts
December 18 2009 17:00 GMT
#14
On December 19 2009 01:55 Harem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2009 00:32 Kau wrote:
Maybe zerg just isn't your race. Have you tried using protoss?

He plays PvZ, PvT, and ZvP.

This is also why Ret's rep pack needs to be out sooner. (or actual zvp vods in proleague would be nice on this map would nice)


Haha, then learn to play PvP instead of crying about an imbalanced map.
Moderator
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11143 Posts
December 18 2009 17:43 GMT
#15
Deal with it, whiner
brood war for life, brood war forever
RaptorX
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Germany646 Posts
December 18 2009 18:11 GMT
#16
this is amazing... that map is more Zerg than Protoss exactly because you get easy gas while you can harass the shit out of the toss and not let him expand... if toss do that to you then you surely need to check your gameplay.
I won
FyRe_DragOn
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada2056 Posts
December 19 2009 01:05 GMT
#17
@ darktreb the cannon rushing reason was added last and is the least important - mineral and gas saturation is very important though, yes im serious -.-

@camlito I agree i lost to some pretty bad tosses on that map as well

@magil-phil no im not, have u even played this map? (vs any good protoss)

@Harem yes, ty for ur support

@zeetemplar i mentioned i did lingrunbys and gained advantage, yet lost anyway, what other harassing methods would u suggest? Lurker contain does not work, he can use a side path to expand easily, or flank your contain, as i stated in the OP its very easy for protoss to take and defend expansions because of the small chokes and ramps.

@Kau ya im going to switch my race because of 1 map, good idea man, if i did that for every imbalanced map i ever played on i might as well play random.

@crunchums I am dealing with it, i made a blog to vent + inform others of this bad map, went over what i could possibly to do improve my gameplay on it - failing that i decided not to play the map anymore. If you dont have anything useful to post, stfu

@raptorx LOL u cant harass the shit out of protoss, he gets expands really easily (as i have stated in the OP), and i surely did check my gameplay, which last season allowed me to get A- on decently balanced maps such as fighting spirit, colloseum, destination, match point, etc. What is amazing is that you post without having any evidence to back up your claims.
aka DragOn[NaS]
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Group C
Solar vs ChamLIVE!
SHIN vs TBD
Harstem vs TBD
Tasteless826
ComeBackTV 703
IndyStarCraft 200
Rex115
LiquipediaDiscussion
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 51
CranKy Ducklings73
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 826
Harstem 213
IndyStarCraft 200
Rex 115
ProTech49
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 8039
Britney 3399
Horang2 2943
Flash 2205
Jaedong 1104
actioN 565
EffOrt 451
Stork 358
Soulkey 329
Snow 183
[ Show more ]
Last 163
Killer 135
JulyZerg 92
Rush 68
ToSsGirL 66
Mong 62
sSak 45
Liquid`Ret 43
Yoon 43
Free 24
NaDa 21
GoRush 21
Sharp 20
sorry 20
ajuk12(nOOB) 18
Backho 15
yabsab 15
Icarus 14
Barracks 12
zelot 9
HiyA 7
ivOry 3
Dota 2
XcaliburYe482
Fuzer 255
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1086
shoxiejesuss910
x6flipin462
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor186
Trikslyr34
Other Games
C9.Mang0406
DeMusliM309
crisheroes275
Hui .102
Lowko93
B2W.Neo78
SortOf75
ArmadaUGS39
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 1205
Other Games
gamesdonequick656
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH308
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV608
League of Legends
• Jankos1367
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
52m
ByuN vs Reynor
Clem vs MaxPax
OSC
1h 22m
Replay Cast
12h 52m
RSL Revival
22h 52m
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 3h
SOOP
1d 21h
Cure vs Zoun
SC Evo League
2 days
Road to EWC
2 days
SOOP Global
2 days
Future vs MaNa
Harstem vs Cham
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Sziky vs JDConan
Cross vs MadiNho
Hawk vs Bonyth
[ Show More ]
Circuito Brasileiro de…
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Road to EWC
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
UltrA vs TBD
Dewalt vs TBD
Replay Cast
4 days
Online Event
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #3 - GSC
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.