So here are some nice reps of the Destination PvT build I did for my CSL game. It took about 20 games of tinkering, figuring out what works/doesn't work, and refining the build... but I am really happy with result (for obvious reasons... I won the game).

I'll explain the logic of the build and how it plays out, but first I'll explain a bit about the build.

- 2 gate opening (safe: stops almost any kind of rush and allows you to put early pressure on Terran)
- double expand (take your nat and the bridge expand)
- robo + obs + 3/4th gate + citadel, mass (an ob should go to their facs to see what's coming, one outside their base, and another with your troops. massing off 4 gates for awhile to prepare for the inevitable push)
**at this point most Terrans are pushing out to take their bridge expand
- take the other side expansion + the mineral only (since Terran is taking a quick 3rd, they won't be playing aggressively, so double expanding again is viable)
- add up to 8-9 gates and arbiter tech
**so here's the logic part...

At this point, Terran has pushed to their bridge base, and you're taking your side base as a 4th. It's a vertical push for Terran to get to that base, and there's a good positioning for it... so the Terran thinks that they need to kill that 4th because if they don't they will get way far behind (since that 4th allows you to easily take a 5th... and 5 vs 3 bases is always bad for Terran. So Terran has a compelling interest to kill that base.

Terran needs to commit to that push because if they don't use enough troops, Protoss has enough army to easily stop it without too many losses. Therefore, Terran commits most of his army to the push (because he's also able to cover his 3rd due to the vertical push). This leaves a gaping weakness in their defense. The natural expansion is wide open.

So while Terran pushes my 4th, I counter and kill their natural. Why is this a good idea? I'm sacrificing my 4th base, but I'm killing their nat. Most Terrans at this point leave after killing my 4th to defend their base (for obvious reasons). As this happens I take the middle expansion, and can soon re-take the 4th. By the end of the attack I've lost my army, but I've killed a large chunk of Terran's army and their natural expansion.

So let's look at the scenarios:

Protoss loss: army + 4th base
Terran loss: army (less army loss than P) + natural expransion

Protoss remains: semi-rebuilt army + arbiter + 5 bases (main + nat + bridge + min only + side exp)
Terran remains: army + 2.5 base (main + bridge + rebuilding nat)

This pretty much gives me an insane advantage. I've basically given up an inch to gain a mile. From this point on, the game is yours to win. I can keep throwing units, taking bases, etc. I can mass gate so I can keep rebuilding armies, I can switch to carrier tech, I can do whatever my heart desires, and Terran is forced to scramble and play catchup.

To illustrate, here are 4 reps in which I use the build (vs 4 different opponents) and the game pretty much plays out exactly the same way.

The game vs Sadist is really great (definitely the best one), and I was extra proud of that because Sadist is B+ and has disgustingly good macro... so I was really happy! Plus it was an entertaining game.

Anyways, enjoy the PvT insight! I really hope that at some point in the future I can understand the other matchups well enough to give the same kind of insight.

Rep 1: Xeris vs Anubis (my team-mate!)

Rep 2: Xeris vs Jaeyun (also my teamate!)

Rep 3: Xeris vs Sadist (also my teammate!)

... and finally, putting practice into action (CSL Match)

Rep 4: Xeris vs Novella (omg I had 200 apm this game!)

Enjoy!

KawaiiRice

United States2914 Posts

December 13 2009 09:55 GMT

Too many reps of Protoss winning. 1/5 imo

TheAntZ

Israel6248 Posts

December 13 2009 09:59 GMT

pfff go back to ur dumb iccup u noob A- terran

CaptainPlatypus

United States852 Posts

December 13 2009 10:17 GMT

Xeris hwaiting!

I'm a big fan of base trading PvT in general, because your bases (not including main) are so much less critical than his. I'm not sure why you'd go 2 gate over 1 gate core if you aren't planning on some sort of weird wall block rush, but hell, it works.

StorrZerg

United States13922 Posts

December 13 2009 10:56 GMT

glad someone is talking about this

i don't think toss does enough back stab on destie too

LuckyFool

United States9016 Posts

December 13 2009 14:15 GMT

I refuse to watch any of these reps.

Nytefish

United Kingdom4282 Posts

December 13 2009 14:43 GMT

I find you don't need to 2 gate to stop rushes. You just need to send a probe early.
Terrans are very nice people and will take SCVs off gas to tell you they're fast expanding.
If they don't do that then you play 2gate robo.

For Terrans that might try to trick you just steal their gas to limit their options or manner pylon them to watch their workers. Once they get use to grabbing their gas before you can steal it, just proxy gate them and manner pylon their wall.

Unless you prefer to play on even grounds, then just keep doing what you're doing.

da_head

Canada3350 Posts

December 13 2009 15:34 GMT

awesome, thanks for reps. i will be studying these heavily.

5/5

arb

Noobville17922 Posts

December 13 2009 16:23 GMT

nice blog, lol xeris_anubis beat me in a pretty intense Tvt the other day was quite exciting

AzureEye

United States1360 Posts

December 13 2009 16:24 GMT

#10

On December 13 2009 23:15 LuckyFool wrote:
I refuse to watch any of these reps.

Then don't post, dumb Terran.

Xeris

Iran17695 Posts

December 13 2009 17:48 GMT

#11

On December 13 2009 23:43 Nytefish wrote:
I find you don't need to 2 gate to stop rushes. You just need to send a probe early.
Terrans are very nice people and will take SCVs off gas to tell you they're fast expanding.
If they don't do that then you play 2gate robo.

For Terrans that might try to trick you just steal their gas to limit their options or manner pylon them to watch their workers. Once they get use to grabbing their gas before you can steal it, just proxy gate them and manner pylon their wall.

Unless you prefer to play on even grounds, then just keep doing what you're doing.

I realize you don't NEED 2 gate to stop most rushes, however... I'm not confident in my micro enough to play 1 gate openings (unless I know they aren't gonna rush me). On 2 player maps I like late scouting, so 2 gate is safest for me.

atm0sphere33

Canada130 Posts

December 13 2009 19:26 GMT

#12

As a terran who's raping TvZ but struggling horribly with TvP, those reps made me die a little inside =P

duckett

United States589 Posts

December 13 2009 19:37 GMT

#13

what if terran turtles up and takes his 2ramp 4th as you take your 4th/5th? i feel like he has to really rush across and take all units to not be able to defend the double bridge

Xeris

Iran17695 Posts

December 13 2009 19:48 GMT

#14

well most of them try to take their bridge expand as a 3rd (because they can defend it easy) then they push sideways to take the 2ramp as a 4th....

but again that leaves their nat wide open because they need to commit MOST of their army to defend the 3rd/4th... if they don't I can kill it, and if they do, I just counter and kill the nat.

also, when I counter - they need to send their army back to defend or they'll lose their entire main... at this point I am rebuilding my army much faster so I can send my new army to kill their 4th after they've been heading back to the main to defend my counter.