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Hi guys. The back-story's not very interesting so I'll just skip to the point. I'll be doing a Bachelor's degree in Biomedical Science in 2011, and one of my options during the degree is to transfer to a Bachelor's of Medicine/Surgery, which is basically how you become a doctor/surgeon/person who works in a hospital in NZ.
So I guess what I'm asking is for the opinions of people studying Medicine/Health-related degrees, how you feel about the degree, whether you've thought of or are planning to be a doctor, why you chose this path (if you want to share that), etc.
Personally, I plan to specialise in Neuroscience because it seems like a very interesting field, although I guess the story behind me picking Biomedical Science isn't too spectacular considering I pretty much sat down in front of a list of science degrees and picked whichever one looked the most interesting. Psychology also appealed, but then I realised I didn't want to make a job out of listening to people's problems for the rest of my life (kudos to those who do).
So yeah, offer me opinions on your medical/health degrees-in-progress, I'd like to get some insight into the process.
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It's not as lucrative as it's made out to be, if that matters to you.
The degree itself can be difficult at times, but is not particularly horrendous. Don't compare the work to your first year of university (that's a joke).
The work can be enjoyable but can also weigh you down. You'll work long hours without satisfactory recompense.
When you enter a training specialty, you'll end up going home each day knowing that you'll have to pick up your books and study.
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Katowice25012 Posts
On November 19 2009 03:31 H wrote:
Psychology also appealed, but then I realised I didn't want to make a job out of listening to people's problems for the rest of my life (kudos to those who do).
For what its worth this part of psychology is only a portion of the field (I feel like its a small part as it contributes very little to the science but I think its probably a huge industry compared to research).
I'm not getting a medical degree, but one of my best friends is because the work/research he is incredibly interested in doing requires one (he studied genetics in undergrad and wants to do work on fertility). He says he hates med school but loves his job, where he does research with eggs or some shit I have no idea, so it seems like a good plan for him.
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You can switch from biomed to med school? Cool. I don't think that's possible here, mainly because it's hard to get accepted to med school because it's such a popular education
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On November 19 2009 03:41 FirstProbe wrote:
It's not as lucrative as it's made out to be, if that matters to you.
The degree itself can be difficult at times, but is not particularly horrendous. Don't compare the work to your first year of university (that's a joke).
The work can be enjoyable but can also weigh you down. You'll work long hours without satisfactory recompense.
When you enter a training specialty, you'll end up going home each day knowing that you'll have to pick up your books and study.
I'd be lying if I said it doesn't matter at all, but it's less of a concern because I'd be doing it mostly out of interest and it probably (I assume) still pays more than a lot of alternatives. Enough to live comfortably, anyway. I imagine the workload will be like nothing I've ever experienced, but at least it'll be interesting work, which is more than I can say for most of the work I have experienced.
On November 19 2009 03:56 heyoka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2009 03:31 H wrote:
Psychology also appealed, but then I realised I didn't want to make a job out of listening to people's problems for the rest of my life (kudos to those who do).
For what its worth this part of psychology is only a portion of the field (I feel like its a small part as it contributes very little to the science but I think its probably a huge industry compared to research). I'm not getting a medical degree, but one of my best friends is because the work/research he is incredibly interested in doing requires one (he studied genetics in undergrad and wants to do work on fertility). He says he hates med school but loves his job, where he does research with eggs or some shit I have no idea, so it seems like a good plan for him.
Despite 50% of my family being psychologists I've never actually asked them about the details of their work so I didn't know that. I have no idea what a psychologist does when they're not examining people, really. Guess I'll educate myself.
That's an interesting choice your friend made, usually you do it the other way around, haha. Everything I've heard about med school indicates that it's basically a march through hell being sustained only by energy drinks and a vague sense of interest in the end result, so that seems about right.
On November 19 2009 04:06 Foucault wrote:
You can switch from biomed to med school? Cool. I don't think that's possible here, mainly because it's hard to get accepted to med school because it's such a popular education
Yeah, you're required to get at least a B+ average during the first year of biomed or the first year of health science in order to apply, then take an exam, etc. We don't have actual "medical schools" over here because the country is small, but it's definitely not any easier to qualify for the degree offered at universities.
Thanks for the posts guys! Your opinions are appreciated.
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NZ doctors are underpaid and overworked. Over 25% of them move to Australia. Best of luck though.
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On November 19 2009 05:00 Try wrote:
NZ doctors are underpaid and overworked. Over 25% of them move to Australia. Best of luck though.
Yeah, I'm 100% planning to ditch NZ and move to America whether I become a doctor or a neuroscientist. Salaries here are pretty bad no matter what the job, and on top of that if I get a postgraduate degree I'd like it to be at an American medical school.
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Hey H I just finished my second year of the MB ChB degree at Otago, and I have a friend who's in the Auckland program so I have an idea of what that's like to.
I chose to study medicine for a number of reasons. I've been really fortunate in my life and have had everything provided for me, so it's a great way of giving back to the community. It's highly rewarding work, it's work that's worth doing, and it's something I can be proud of being good at it eventually. There are a huge number of things you can do with your degree too, which is great, and you can take it practically anywhere in the world. The financial security is a BIG plus in present times where graduates are struggling to find jobs. Academically it is also stimulating and challenging, and I like learning about stuff related to the human body. It is this combination of reasons that made me choose medicine, over other careers like nursing where you also get to (and arguably even more so) help people. One of the questions they ask often in the interview is firstly why do you want to do medicine, then why don't you want to do another career like nursing if you want to help people.
As for specialising I don't really know yet. I'm waiting until the clinical years where we get to try a bit each of the main specialties. Auckland DHB provides a really useful about the specialties:
http://www.careermed.co.nz/specialties/specialty.information.html
The Otago and Auckland MB ChB degrees are quite different in a number of ways. The workload at Auckland is DEFINITELY higher than that in Otago. You learn a lot more basic sciences at Auckland, like bucketloads of anatomy for instance, and you also have more contact hours per week. Otago has a much stronger focus on clinical skills early on in the degree, and a person/community view of healthcare. Even Otago's comparatively wimpy workload was more than I've ever encountered, so I had to work pretty hard. I think the upgrade to Auckland's medical school (which will actually cost more than the Eden Park upgrade) will be done by the time you go through, so that'll be nice.
Entry via the biomed degree is as you know incredibly competitive, and the increasing number of places in the med class does not help because they are for ROMPE and MAPAS seats (unless you are rural or have Maori ancestry?). This year, even a single A instead of an A+ in any of the 4 core papers (the ones that count for entry) have a significant impact on chances.
If you are determined to get into medicine, then there are some things you could do now which could prepare you for the interview. You'd have an advantage having more life experience and maturity than the other biomed students. Make sure you iron your reasons for your decision to persue medicine, so that in the interview you will be able to clearly communicate your reasoning behind it. Speak to as many professionals in the healthcare sector as possible, including but not limited to doctors, nurses, caregivers, dentists, and of course your family who are psychologists. This helps in working out solid reasons for choosing medicine, helps with answering the question of "why not another profession like nursing if you want to help people?", and also shows that you're serious about this and have taken the effort to really see if it's the right thing for you. Get some volunteering experience, for instance as a caregiver, unless you already have some which is great.
MSO is a forum that has a huge amount of information on all aspects of the entry into medicine, studying in the degree, and what follows:
http://www.medstudentsonline.com.au/forum.php
Have a look at the NZ threads, but note that the very old posts have outdated information, like the interview scoring system is now 1 to 10, not 1 to 5 for instance. There's a lot of good stuff on the site but you'll have to wade through a lot of crap to find it if you have the time. Making a post there would be a good idea. Have some specific and some general questions.
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On November 19 2009 04:22 H wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2009 03:41 FirstProbe wrote:
It's not as lucrative as it's made out to be, if that matters to you.
The degree itself can be difficult at times, but is not particularly horrendous. Don't compare the work to your first year of university (that's a joke).
The work can be enjoyable but can also weigh you down. You'll work long hours without satisfactory recompense.
When you enter a training specialty, you'll end up going home each day knowing that you'll have to pick up your books and study. I'd be lying if I said it doesn't matter at all, but it's less of a concern because I'd be doing it mostly out of interest and it probably (I assume) still pays more than a lot of alternatives. Enough to live comfortably, anyway. I imagine the workload will be like nothing I've ever experienced, but at least it'll be interesting work, which is more than I can say for most of the work I have experienced. Show nested quote +On November 19 2009 03:56 heyoka wrote:On November 19 2009 03:31 H wrote:
Psychology also appealed, but then I realised I didn't want to make a job out of listening to people's problems for the rest of my life (kudos to those who do).
For what its worth this part of psychology is only a portion of the field (I feel like its a small part as it contributes very little to the science but I think its probably a huge industry compared to research). I'm not getting a medical degree, but one of my best friends is because the work/research he is incredibly interested in doing requires one (he studied genetics in undergrad and wants to do work on fertility). He says he hates med school but loves his job, where he does research with eggs or some shit I have no idea, so it seems like a good plan for him. Despite 50% of my family being psychologists I've never actually asked them about the details of their work so I didn't know that. I have no idea what a psychologist does when they're not examining people, really. Guess I'll educate myself. That's an interesting choice your friend made, usually you do it the other way around, haha. Everything I've heard about med school indicates that it's basically a march through hell being sustained only by energy drinks and a vague sense of interest in the end result, so that seems about right. Show nested quote +On November 19 2009 04:06 Foucault wrote:
You can switch from biomed to med school? Cool. I don't think that's possible here, mainly because it's hard to get accepted to med school because it's such a popular education Yeah, you're required to get at least a B+ average during the first year of biomed or the first year of health science in order to apply, then take an exam, etc. We don't have actual "medical schools" over here because the country is small, but it's definitely not any easier to qualify for the degree offered at universities. Thanks for the posts guys! Your opinions are appreciated.
I don't get what you mean by the "medical schools".
The work is more than you'll anticipate... 12 day stints every 3 weeks (with an estimated 120-130 hours in those two weeks) and 7 day night shifts (72 hour weeks) are probably conservative estimates of the time you'll put in, at least in New Zealand.
A third year nurse will make more money per hour than you do, in your first year (at least, they used to). The financial remuneration in the end will likely project you into the top earning bracket, though the amount of work to get there is a lot.
Going to work in America is no easy process, and I really mean it. To sit the USMLE and to perform well enough in each of the stages to secure a position in America is difficult. I don't care who you are, it takes a lot of work - simply because you're competiting with the rest of the world, and because they would naturally make the process more difficult to protect their graduates.
B+ average will not get you into the medical program here.
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On November 19 2009 05:32 skyglow1 wrote:
Hey H I just finished my second year of the MB ChB degree at Otago, and I have a friend who's in the Auckland program so I have an idea of what that's like to...
Wow, thanks a lot man. This is absolutely invaluable information, thanks for sharing your perspective. I didn't know there was that much of a difference between the Otago and Auckland curriculum, that's pretty interesting. I'll be doing my degree at Auckland, I'll definitely take a look at those sites, the MSO forum seems like it'd be a good place to at least learn a bit about med school, UMAT and the motivations of different people.
On November 19 2009 05:55 FirstProbe wrote:
I don't get what you mean by the "medical schools".
The work is more than you'll anticipate... 12 day stints every 3 weeks (with an estimated 120-130 hours in those two weeks) and 7 day night shifts (72 hour weeks) are probably conservative estimates of the time you'll put in, at least in New Zealand.
A third year nurse will make more money per hour than you do, in your first year (at least, they used to). The financial remuneration in the end will likely project you into the top earning bracket, though the amount of work to get there is a lot.
Going to work in America is no easy process, and I really mean it. To sit the USMLE and to perform well enough in each of the stages to secure a position in America is difficult. I don't care who you are, it takes a lot of work - simply because you're competiting with the rest of the world, and because they would naturally make the process more difficult to protect their graduates.
B+ average will not get you into the medical program here.
I meant like Johns Hopkins, or just a university that's really well-known for the quality of its medicinal programs. We don't really have those here given the relatively small number of universities period.
I know it's not really possible for me to convey this properly over the internet, but I have no intention of just cruising through university (although I guess you can't really cruise through med school anyway). This is the most motivated I've ever been in my life, and I'd like to believe my average will not just be B+.
edit: lol, just walked out into the kitchen and checked the front page of the newspaper. Health funding being cut by 150 million. gr8
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On November 19 2009 05:55 FirstProbe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2009 04:22 H wrote:On November 19 2009 03:41 FirstProbe wrote:
It's not as lucrative as it's made out to be, if that matters to you.
The degree itself can be difficult at times, but is not particularly horrendous. Don't compare the work to your first year of university (that's a joke).
The work can be enjoyable but can also weigh you down. You'll work long hours without satisfactory recompense.
When you enter a training specialty, you'll end up going home each day knowing that you'll have to pick up your books and study. I'd be lying if I said it doesn't matter at all, but it's less of a concern because I'd be doing it mostly out of interest and it probably (I assume) still pays more than a lot of alternatives. Enough to live comfortably, anyway. I imagine the workload will be like nothing I've ever experienced, but at least it'll be interesting work, which is more than I can say for most of the work I have experienced. On November 19 2009 03:56 heyoka wrote:On November 19 2009 03:31 H wrote:
Psychology also appealed, but then I realised I didn't want to make a job out of listening to people's problems for the rest of my life (kudos to those who do).
For what its worth this part of psychology is only a portion of the field (I feel like its a small part as it contributes very little to the science but I think its probably a huge industry compared to research). I'm not getting a medical degree, but one of my best friends is because the work/research he is incredibly interested in doing requires one (he studied genetics in undergrad and wants to do work on fertility). He says he hates med school but loves his job, where he does research with eggs or some shit I have no idea, so it seems like a good plan for him. Despite 50% of my family being psychologists I've never actually asked them about the details of their work so I didn't know that. I have no idea what a psychologist does when they're not examining people, really. Guess I'll educate myself. That's an interesting choice your friend made, usually you do it the other way around, haha. Everything I've heard about med school indicates that it's basically a march through hell being sustained only by energy drinks and a vague sense of interest in the end result, so that seems about right. On November 19 2009 04:06 Foucault wrote:
You can switch from biomed to med school? Cool. I don't think that's possible here, mainly because it's hard to get accepted to med school because it's such a popular education Yeah, you're required to get at least a B+ average during the first year of biomed or the first year of health science in order to apply, then take an exam, etc. We don't have actual "medical schools" over here because the country is small, but it's definitely not any easier to qualify for the degree offered at universities. Thanks for the posts guys! Your opinions are appreciated. I don't get what you mean by the "medical schools". The work is more than you'll anticipate... 12 day stints every 3 weeks (with an estimated 120-130 hours in those two weeks) and 7 day night shifts (72 hour weeks) are probably conservative estimates of the time you'll put in, at least in New Zealand. A third year nurse will make more money per hour than you do, in your first year (at least, they used to). The financial remuneration in the end will likely project you into the top earning bracket, though the amount of work to get there is a lot. Going to work in America is no easy process, and I really mean it. To sit the USMLE and to perform well enough in each of the stages to secure a position in America is difficult. I don't care who you are, it takes a lot of work - simply because you're competiting with the rest of the world, and because they would naturally make the process more difficult to protect their graduates. B+ average will not get you into the medical program here.
B+ average would definitely not get you into a medical program here either. It's just the minimum you need to be considered. At Auckland you need pretty much 4A+ or 3A+ and an A to have good chances of getting in, combined with a good interview score.
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I graduated from Auckland, and I meant here, as in New Zealand.
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Oh I didn't know that. I thought you were meaning in US :D
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EPT
